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[hipbabboom]

Anyone on GAF running 2 x 295x2?

If I build in the fall of this year, as long as it comes under $2500 for the GFX alone, I think I jump into the 395x2... so hard :3

 

[jfoul]

Ya know, I don't think AMD having stacked memory for even 6-12 months ahead of Nvidia is going to matter much in the long run. It may get some enthusiasts excited, but if the main advantages of stacked memory aren't seen for a little while anyways, and the best they can manage with it is 4GB in the beginning, its not necessarily *that* enticing and gives Nvidia plenty of time to play catch up and jump back in once things start rolling.

And really, to hear these cards aren't likely to be any better than 4GB is quite disappointing in general. I still haven't returned my 970 and I'm starting to wonder whether I should.

Hoping for a Radeon 9700 moment, but I think that won't come until 16/20nm variants.

 

[Durante]

That's not exactly a fair comparison though, multi-card setups always have more problems than single card. Which is why I never bother with SLI/CF.

Driver-wise both are IMO equal these days; neither are perfect. I still like Nvidia's software a lot better, though - but that's a minor consideration unless you make heavy use of things like Shadowplay.

That reminds me, does AMD's Shadowplay alternative (I always forget what it's called) support desktop capture now?

Anyone on GAF running 2 x 295x2?

I hope no one on GAF is running 4 GPUs of any kind. I wouldn't wish that kind of latency, compatibility issues and frame pacing on anyone.

 

[joshcryer]

I just hope HBM stacked memory gives AMD a slight edge and lets them get some monies so that they can stay competitive with Intel / Nvidia. They've been right so many times about architecture, but when they went with on-die memory controllers Intel was able to exploit the yield issues (amongst other anti-competitive practices) and the rest is history.

 

[Skux]

I'd at least expect HBM on the 380X. How else are they gonna sell the thing?

 

[maneil99]

In every single thread

At this point one has to wonder why those comments aren't a bannable offence when they'Re mostly used by nVidia fanboys still hung up on how the drivers were 10 years ago

I had cfx 6870s. My friend has a 7870. They update there drivers far to slow

 

[Renekton]

Ya know, I don't think AMD having stacked memory for even 6-12 months ahead of Nvidia is going to matter much in the long run. It may get some enthusiasts excited, but if the main advantages of stacked memory aren't seen for a little while anyways.

So you mean 2015/2016 games will not hit bandwidth bottleneck scenarios?

 

[Kezen]

4096 GCN cores ? That will do some damage.

I'm really interested in how Nvidia will respond, no doubt they will have an answer but they won't be able to compete bandwith wise.

 

[Bastables]

I had cfx 6870s. My friend has a 7870. They update there drivers far to slow

You might want to answer Renekton's repeated question, of course your avoidance coupled with this answer sort of proves his point.

 

[Seanspeed]

I'd at least expect HBM on the 380X. How else are they gonna sell the thing?

Same way they resold the 7970 as a 280X. Give it slightly better clock, efficiency and a new name.

Thing is, with the price of the 390X/390 likely to be in the $400-600 range, and with AMD having to react to the 970/980 and forcing their hand in cutting the price of the 290X very early, you're not even likely to see any pricing benefits from the new branding.

If this is all true, of course.

 

[michaelius]

So you mean 2015/2016 games will not hit bandwidth bottleneck scenarios?

No ?

We are starved for gpu power.

Same way they resold the 7970 as a 280X. Give it slightly better clock, efficiency and a new name.

Thing is, with the price of the 390X/390 likely to be in the $400-600 range, and with AMD having to react to the 970/980 and forcing their hand in cutting the price of the 290X very early, you're not even likely to see any pricing benefits from the new branding.

If this is all true, of course.

When they rebranded 7950/7970 they used it to increase prices.

 

[Seanspeed]

So you mean 2015/2016 games will not hit bandwidth bottleneck scenarios?

Some might, sure, but how many situations will that be the case where the 4GB limitation doesn't also come into play?

 

[Renekton]

No ?

We are starved for gpu power.

This is why I'm asking: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/article-just-how-important-is-gpu-memory-bandwidth.209053/

 

[kitch9]

Only reason I look forward to AMD is because it means NVidia will respond with their own GPUs, anyone that values their time and patience knows AMD drivers are a joke

As someone who tends to switch between AMD and Nvidia quite a bit I find this post to be complete and utter bollocks,

So to speak.

I think my 780 will be retired for the 390 if this thing is what it looks to be.

 

[ISee]

Their new GPUs sound promising. But, in my opinion, they are releasing them way to late. PC gamers were starving for an affordable, 'good' and new GPU, and by now most of them already upgraded to a 970 or 980 it seems. Some of the 'better' 970s are still overpriced or hard to get, at least here in germany. And even after the VRAM fiasco the return rate for gtx 970 cards is under 5%, probably because there is no true alternative right now.

Do not get me wrong, the 300 series will find enough fans, and I even think the 380 has the potential to outperform the 970 but AMD is to late to increase their marketshare.

 

[dragonelite]

What is the difference between the 390 and 390x?

 

[Kezen]

Their new GPUs sound promising. But, in my opinion, they are releasing them way to late. PC gamers were starving for an affordable, 'good' and new GPU, and by now most of them already upgraded to a 970 or 980 it seems. Some of the 'better' 970s are still overpriced or hard to get, at least here in germany. And even after the VRAM fiasco the return rate for gtx 970 cards is under 5%, probably because there is no true alternative right now.

Do not get me wrong, the 300 series will find enough fans, and I even think the 380 has the potential to outperform the 970 but AMD is to late to increase their marketshare.

Marketshare can be regained. From the look of it the 390/390X will be very significantly ahead of the 970/980. And the 380/380X probably be just as good.

If the price is right this will be a real success.

 

[wachie]

Marketshare can be regained. From the look of it the 390/390X will be very significantly ahead of the 970/980. And the 380/380X probably be just as good.

If the price is right this will be a real success.

Nvidia still has their monolith in the Maxwell series, they can stay competitive performance wise. What Nvidia wouldnt like is that they wont be able to rip consumers off with a $2000-3000 price tag like they are used to now.

 

[kitch9]

Their new GPUs sound promising. But, in my opinion, they are releasing them way to late. PC gamers were starving for an affordable, 'good' and new GPU, and by now most of them already upgraded to a 970 or 980 it seems. Some of the 'better' 970s are still overpriced or hard to get, at least here in germany. And even after the VRAM fiasco the return rate for gtx 970 cards is under 5%, probably because there is no true alternative right now.

Do not get me wrong, the 300 series will find enough fans, and I even think the 380 has the potential to outperform the 970 but AMD is to late to increase their marketshare.

Other than releasing quicker and more efficient products what else do you expect them to do?

 

[Seanspeed]

wont be able to rip consumers off with a $2000-3000 price tag like they are used to now.

What? :/

 

[Kezen]

Nvidia still has their monolith in the Maxwell series, they can stay competitive performance wise. What Nvidia wouldnt like is that they wont be able to rip consumers off with a $2000-3000 price tag like they are used to now.

The GM200 is impressive on paper but we don't know how crippled the consumer variants will be. I doubt either consumer cards will be the full chip but I have the feeling this will be needed to compete with AMD's top end offerings.
A 1.000€/$ GPU would probably bomb at this point, they should have launched it last month when they had a window, now it's too late.

My speculation is that the bandwith battle is already lost for Nvidia, you can't beat 640gb/s. I expect the GM200 derived cards to have a great perf/watt ratio but not quite as powerful as AMD's 390/390X. Maybe they can get close enough that it would not affect them too negatively.

It's clear that they're banking on other things than hardware to maintain marketshare such as their ecosystem and Gameworks.

What? :/

The Titan Z was indeed a rip-off. Two titans for the price of three.
What a bargain.

 

[Seanspeed]

The Titan Z was indeed a rip-off. Two titans for the price of three.
What a bargain.

Forgot about the Titan Z. I doubt that was any huge success, so I wouldn't worry about a single card GM200 cost anywhere near that much.

 

[Kezen]

Forgot about the Titan Z. I doubt that was any huge success, so I wouldn't worry about a single card GM200 cost anywhere near that much.

I doubt it as much as you do. I believe it's too late for that when the R9 300 series is on the horizon. Nvidia will need to be very sensible regarding pricing, this is traditionally a strong suit of AMD.
I would expect the R9 390X to have an MSRP of 550$. Nvidia should not underestimate that price tag.

Realistically how many skus will Nvidia need to put against that ? I don't know but one will not be enough.

 

[wachie]

The GM200 is impressive on paper but we don't know how crippled the consumer variants will be. I doubt either consumer cards will be the full chip but I have the feeling this will be needed to compete with AMD's top end offerings.
A 1.000€/$ GPU would probably bomb at this point, they should have launched it last month when they had a window, now it's too late.

My speculation is that the bandwith battle is already lost for Nvidia, you can't beat 640gb/s. I expect the GM200 derived cards to have a great perf/watt ratio but not quite as powerful as AMD's 390/390X. Maybe they can get close enough that it would not affect them too negatively.

It's clear that they're banking on other things than hardware to maintain marketshare such as their ecosystem and Gameworks.

The thing is AMD cant just boost the memory bandwidth. The 980 is quite competitive despite the 290X having ~50% more of it.

 

[Seanspeed]

I doubt it as much as you do. I believe it's too late for that when the R9 300 series is on the horizon.

I think it has nothing to do with AMD and more to do with the fact that it was never going to cost $2000-3000 in the first place. The Titan price was already insane.

 

[ISee]

Other than releasing quicker and more efficient products what else do you expect them to do?

Have a better release window and have a competitive price of course. I think it is very important to release your own product as close as possible (1-2 months) after your competitor released his own new product. It's even more important then in the console buisness. Nvidia and Amd gpus exclude each other, most people will not own two gaming PC or upgrade parts every 6 months. Console wise you can buy one and then its competitor a couple of months later and still sony and microsoft did everything to have a smilar lunch window this generation. I think AMD should adept to this.

Marketshare can be regained. From the look of it the 390/390X will be very significantly ahead of the 970/980. And the 380/380X probably be just as good.

If the price is right this will be a real success.

It can be regained and I even hope they will, but I doubt they are in a good position this year. Even if the 380 series is better then the 970 (@ same price level) I doubt that people who upgraded in the last 5 months are going to upgrade again this year.

Again I am not saying that nobody is going to buy the 300 series, I just think buisness wise AMD should have released it much closer to nvidias 970/980 release date.

 

[Kezen]

The thing is AMD cant just boost the memory bandwidth. The 980 is quite competitive despite the 290X having ~50% more of it.

You may be forgetting that AMD do have a compression algorithm similar to Nvidia's compression tech introduced in Tonga. Now imagine that with 640gb/s.
It's insane, and will definitely help the 390/390X maintain a significant performance lead over Nvidia's 980 in situations where bandwith is the limiting factor : 1080p with heavy AA, 1440p or 4K. There is no doubt in my mind Nvidia just can't rival that for the moment.
At 1080p/1440p with light AA Nvidia can remain competitive but I don't expect even their best GM200 GPU to be strictly as powerful. Think about 10% lead for AMD's 390X.
I'm basing this off the possibility of a 250w Maxwell GPU. If they aim for lower than this then they're a spent force.

I think it has nothing to do with AMD and more to do with the fact that it was never going to cost $2000-3000 in the first place. The Titan price was already insane

I would not put it past Nvidia, honestly. If they had a clear window they could take advantage of that by launching a retardedly priced GPU like the Titan Z.
They can't do that now.

However, I think they will still make the mistake of pricing their best GM200 at 650 MSRP. They will be undercut by AMD easily.

It can be regained and I even hope they will, but I doubt they are in a good position this year. Even if the 380 series is better then the 970 (@ same price level) I doubt that people who upgraded in the last 5 months are going to upgrade again this year.

Again I am not saying that nobody is going to buy the 300 series, I just think buisness wise AMD should have released it much closer to nvidias 970/980 release date.

I do think they are in a good position if their next batch of cards is priced sensibly. Power efficiency will take a backseat but for an enthusiast crowd who already OC their GPU I doubt it's much of a concern. I can see AMD doing very well with the 300 series.
Further, there are folks who haven't upgraded to the 970/980 because the jump in performance is not significant enough and who will be looking at AMD's 300 series very carefully.
Unless I'm severely underestimating the "full" Maxwell architecture I think this is going to be very tough for Nvidia to beat AMD this time.

To respond to your last point it does not really matter when you launch a product, what matters is the proposition. I would certainly not discount AMD just because the 300 series will release between April-June. If the price/performance is there nothing else matters.

 

[Dictator93]

The thing is AMD cant just boost the memory bandwidth. The 980 is quite competitive despite the 290X having ~50% more of it.

290 series cards don't have the bandwidth compression stuff from Tonga, right? Likewise, Maxwell 200 series cards have similar bandwidth compression tech. This leads to the situation where at lower resolution, where bandwidth matters less, that 50% bandwidth advantage is unpronunced and negated by the compression tech advantage (something equivalating to 35% more "bandwidth" I believe)"

Maxwell fairing so well with less bandwidth has a lot to do with that compression tech, the 290 series even then fairs better and scalles better at higher resolutions inspite of the bandwidth compression on Maxwell.

Now imagine a card with much higher shading power, bandwidth compression tech from Tonga (aka, Maxwell wouldn't be the only one have this trump card for its bandwidth deficiencies anylonger), as well as HBM with a huge 1024 bit interface. Maxwell could quite conceivably be left in the proverbial dust.

 

[Seanspeed]

I would not put it past Nvidia, honestly.

No way. Not a single card.

290 series cards don't have the bandwidth compression stuff from Tonga, right? Likewise, Maxwell 200 series cards have similar bandwidth compression tech. This leads to the situation where at lower resolution, where bandwidth matters less, that 50% bandwidth advantage is unpronunced and negated by the compression tech advantage (something equivalating to 35% more "bandwidth" I believe)"

Maxwell fairing so well with less bandwidth has a lot to do with that compression tech, the 290 series even then fairs better and scalles better at higher resolutions inspite of the bandwidth compression on Maxwell.

Now imagine a card with much higher shading power, bandwidth compression tech from Tonga (aka, Maxwell wouldn't be the only one have this trump card for its bandwidth deficiencies anylonger), as well as HBM with a huge 1024 bit interface. Maxwell could quite conceivably be left in the proverbial dust.

Yet in these higher resolution scenarios where Maxwell will be 'left in the dust', a 390X/390 could well still be entirely limited by only having 4GB of vRAM.

 

[KungFucius]

I'd at least expect HBM on the 380X. How else are they gonna sell the thing?

Apparently by calling it a 380X when it is really just a 290X

 

[Serandur]

You may be forgetting that AMD do have a compression algorithm similar to Nvidia's compression tech introduced in Tonga. Now imagine that with 640gb/s.
It's insane, and will definitely help the 390/390X maintain a significant performance lead over Nvidia's 980 in situations where bandwith is the limiting factor : 1080p with heavy AA, 1440p or 4K. There is no doubt in my mind Nvidia just can't rival that for the moment.
At 1080p/1440p with light AA Nvidia can remain competitive but I don't expect even their best GM200 GPU to be strictly as powerful. Think about 10% lead for AMD's 390X.
I'm basing this off the possibility of a 250w Maxwell GPU. If they aim for lower than this then they're a spent force.


I would not put it past Nvidia, honestly. If they had a clear window they could take advantage of that by launching a retardedly priced GPU like the Titan Z.
They can't do that now.

However, I think they will still make the mistake of pricing their best GM200 at 650 MSRP. They will be undercut by AMD easily.

290 series cards don't have the bandwidth compression stuff from Tonga, right? Likewise, Maxwell 200 series cards have similar bandwidth compression tech. This leads to the situation where at lower resolution, where bandwidth matters less, that 50% bandwidth advantage is unpronunced and negated by the compression tech advantage (something equivalating to 35% more "bandwidth" I believe)"

Maxwell fairing so well with less bandwidth has a lot to do with that compression tech, the 290 series even then fairs better and scalles better at higher resolutions inspite of the bandwidth compression on Maxwell.

Now imagine a card with much higher shading power, bandwidth compression tech from Tonga (aka, Maxwell wouldn't be the only one have this trump card for its bandwidth deficiencies anylonger), as well as HBM with a huge 1024 bit interface. Maxwell could quite conceivably be left in the proverbial dust.

There is one issue The 390X will have to deal with from HBM though. First-gen HBM tech limits the card's potential (HBM) VRAM size to 4 GBs. For something as theoretically powerful and well-equipped for high resolution gaming as it, that 4GB limitation might be particularly painful in contrast to "affordable" GM200's likely 6 GBs (or whatever portion of it cut-down GM200s will actually be able to access at full speed...).

I hope AMD implement secondary GDDR5 memory controllers for some additional VRAM or something, but it seems unlikely.

 

[Dictator93]

No way. Not a single card.


Yet in these higher resolution scenarios where Maxwell will be 'left in the dust', a 390X/390 could well still be entirely limited by only having 4GB of vRAM.

There is one issue The 390X will have to deal with from HBM though. First-gen HBM tech limits the card's potential (HBM) VRAM size to 4 GBs. For something as theoretically powerful and well-equipped for high resolution gaming as it, that 4GB limitation might be particularly painful in contrast to "affordable" GM200's likely 6 GBs (or whatever portion of it cut-down GM200s will actually be able to access at full speed...).

I hope AMD implement secondary GDDR5 memory controllers for some additional VRAM or something, but it seems unlikely.

Woh! Just hearing now about this 4GB limitation. Yeah, that definitely could have quite the effect at higher resolutions. Darn.

 

[Corpsepyre]

How is this stacked memory different from the usual GDDR5 memory we have currently?

Layman terms please.

 

[Kezen]

There is one issue The 390X will have to deal with from HBM though. First-gen HBM tech limits the card's potential (HBM) VRAM size to 4 GBs. For something as theoretically powerful and well-equipped for high resolution gaming as it, that 4GB limitation might be particularly painful in contrast to "affordable" GM200's likely 6 GBs (or whatever portion of it cut-down GM200s will actually be able to access at full speed...).

I hope AMD implement secondary GDDR5 memory controllers for some additional VRAM or something, but it seems unlikely.

I didn't know that. I thought they could launch a 4gb basic model on top of premium models featuring 8gb of HBM.

4gb is indeed too little for such a GPU. But again they can negate that with a reasonable MSRP.

I hope Nvidia will not release a GPU structurally crippled like the 970. It hurts their brand image enough already.

 

[Serandur]

Woh! Just hearing now about this 4GB limitation. Yeah, that definitely could have quite the effect at higher resolutions. Darn.

I didn't know that. I thought they could launch a 4gb basic model on top of premium models featuring 8gb of HBM.

4gb is indeed too little for such a GPU. But again they can negate that with a reasonable MSRP.

I hope Nvidia will not release a GPU structurally crippled like the 970. It hurts their brand image enough already.

I'll take a reasonable MSRP; so long as they can force Nvidia to release a cheaper GM200 too, it should be fine, but I wonder if we'll see the ironic situation of Nvidia advertising a VRAM quantity advantage or something. It would be weird and might be their way of manipulating public perception into believing GM200 parts are still worth a large premium.

How is this stacked memory different from the usual GDDR5 memory we have currently?

Layman terms please.

It's much faster.

 

[DieH@rd]

How is this stacked memory different from the usual GDDR5 memory we have currently?

Layman terms please.

Instead of this memory configuration [crapton of GDDR5 chips]
http://cdn3.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Sapphire-Radeon-R9-290X-Tri-X-PCB.jpg

AMD will be first to switch on a memory that is directly connected to the GPU chip, which in addition to lower power usage gives higher densities and higher bandwidth.
http://i.imgur.com/GnFOasKl.png


For gaming purposes, GPUs will become better utilized with GPU core having faster access to the VRAM.

 

[wilflare]

I switched from AMD to my first nVidia GPU (970... sigh)
I sure hope we see some kind of GameStream from AMD - that might convince me to switch back w the 300

 

[Ayato Kanzaki]

I'm very interested in a 390 card, but the first thing I want of a video card is that it remain quiet. The custom coolers that will go on the card will be the deciding factor for me (well, the price too).

 

[protomouse]

Very much looking forward to what AMD will provide. Hopefully they can get their damn TDP under control.

 

[DieH@rd]

I don't care much about TDP, I'm more concerned about price/performance and there AMD was always great.

 

[Alex]

The only people complaining about AMD drivers, are people that don't currently own AMD.

The latest Omega drivers, with features like built in super sampling etc are amazing and have given me zero problems on my 290x. My problem? I have a reference 290x that sounds like a wind tunnel under full load, but doesn't really bother me with headphones on.

Yeah, I remember the fandom telling me that while I needed two programs in tandem to make several games not stutter last year.

And I guess I'm seeing it replicated now while I still watch a friend grapple with radeon pro and sat out half of our dying light session when it launched.

I have no love for nvidia, but I'm not planning to hop back to amd without waiting a bit and watching some revisions and seeing how more games launch this year.

 

[1st Course]

TechPowerUp:
"The only truly new silicon with the R9 300 series, is "Fiji." This chip will be designed to drive AMD's high-end single- and dual-GPU graphics cards, and will be built to compete with the GM200 silicon from NVIDIA, and the GeForce GTX TITAN-X it will debut with. This chip features 4,096 stream processors based on the GCN 1.3 architecture - double that of "Tonga," 256 TMUs, 128 ROPs, and a 1024-bit wide HBM memory interface, offering 640 GB/s of memory bandwidth. 4 GB could be the standard memory amount. The three cards AMD will carve out of this silicon, are the R9 390, the R9 390X, and the R9 390X2."

Of course this is all rumor, but I think the leaks are probably close to what the 390 is going to be. I just hope AMD nails the reference cooler this time, and has AIB partners ready to go earlier. With AMD having a head start with HBM, they have a real opportunity to really stick it to Nvidia that will bring fierce competition and price cuts.

AMD just needs to do is stick the landing. pls AMD.

Madness. Really carious to see how the cards will fare at 4K.

 

[ScepticMatt]

How is this stacked memory different from the usual GDDR5 memory we have currently?

Layman terms please.

Much faster (higher bandwidth), more power efficient, smaller graphics cards.

GDDR5: chips distributed around graphics processor chip, connected by 16 lanes each.
Can transmit e.g. 256 bit of data per cycle with 8 double data rate memory chips (DDR3 SDRAM).

HBM: chips stacked on a substrate, connected to each other with through the silicon layers ("through silicon vias")
Connected to the GPU either through an "interposer" module, or stacked on the graphics chip itself.
Allows for far more parallel connections, can transmit e.g. 1024 bit of data per cycle rumored for 3xx series.
So they can use lower cycle rate, more power efficient memory chips and still have much more total bandwidth.

 

[DouglasteR]

Cant wait.

We will need that power for VR@90hz

 

[knerl]

As someone who tends to switch between AMD and Nvidia quite a bit I find this post to be complete and utter bollocks,

So to speak.

I think my 780 will be retired for the 390 if this thing is what it looks to be.

I also tend to switch and compared to the driver support from Nvidia AMD's are a joke.

 

[DieH@rd]

Madness. Really carious to see how the cards will fare at 4K.

Madness indeed.

I'm hoping for ~350€ price for R9 390.

 

[Dictator93]

Madness indeed.

I'm hoping for ~350€ price for 390.

That would be quite nice as long as it performs well enough.

 

[Bastables]

No way. Not a single card.


Yet in these higher resolution scenarios where Maxwell will be 'left in the dust', a 390X/390 could well still be entirely limited by only having 4GB of vRAM.

So you're thinking really about buying a 290x 8gig then?

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?cid=1&gid=3&sgid=1227&pid=2394&psn=&lid=1&leg=0

Because your key theoretical point rests on having a much faster 4 gig card performing worse than your effectively 3.5gig card at the higher resolutions?

 

[SneakyStephan]

Stacked vram is fucking awesome, idk why people aren't excited for it.
Current gddr5 is high clocked, gets hot as shit and consumes quite a lot of power, and a wide memory bus is expensive (hence why you get so many memory bandwidth crippled gpus in the lower end)

stacked vram will change all that, it's going to be super useful in the midrange and lower end in the future too.

Besides, all that memory bandwidth is useful with 4GB of vram too, more memory bandwidth translates into a higher framerate when memory bandwidth is the limiting factor (which it damn well should be on a 4000shader monster card if it used a 256bit bus or something) , it's not just used for higher resolutions and AA @60fps

Having memory bandwidth no longer be a bottleneck or issue for the forseeable future is pretty great imo

 

[hodgy100]

Yeah, I remember the fandom telling me that while I needed two programs in tandem to make several games not stutter last year.

And I guess I'm seeing it replicated now while I still watch a friend grapple with radeon pro and sat out half of our dying light session when it launched.

I have no love for nvidia, but I'm not planning to hop back to amd without waiting a bit and watching some revisions and seeing how more games launch this year.

what was he trying to do with radeon pro? lets remember that that is a tweaking app and that its unsupported by amd.