Stone Ocean
Member
Kids won't get to decide if they can postpone certain things in order to do other things. Why would you teach they can?
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Parenting and Online Gaming -"An open letter to parents of League of Legends Players"
- Thread starter Timeaisis
- Start date
You are right about teaching time management. And you do that by enforcing the rules. That means it goes off at the time you set. You last sentence is just wrong, no one is saying that in that context.
Stone Ocean
Member
But moooooooooooom, my kill death ratio!
Acerac
Banned
Sure they can. It's just that postponing things has consequences. Do they want to have fun and hurt themselves in the long run?
It's almost like you're teaching them about real life, where people can screw off and not do important things and have long reaching consequences. I'd think that's a lesson worth teaching?
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
You are right that no size fits all... That's why you may respect the decision of many here of saying "not caring about your stats but my child", because in the end you are trying to appeal mainly because the competitive and social aspect of a hobby (for must) with a community that not exactly appeals to families than limits or flexibility in parenting.
Conkerkid11
Member
The replies in here are so bad. Pretending we're not on a gaming forum or something, saying you don't know what LoL is and that permanently damaging the stats and ranks of other players isn't a big deal.
I don't understand the argument regarding bed times, because the kid should know when their bed time is and not start a match if they know their parents are strict and they won't finish before then. That's the kid's fault.
But what's really annoying is when parents suddenly pull the kid off for other reasons. My dad is a gamer, so he understands, and doesn't do this. But most of my friends' parents just don't care at all, and stop everything their kid is doing so they can go do some sort of chore that doesn't even need to be immediately done.
I don't understand the argument regarding bed times, because the kid should know when their bed time is and not start a match if they know their parents are strict and they won't finish before then. That's the kid's fault.
But what's really annoying is when parents suddenly pull the kid off for other reasons. My dad is a gamer, so he understands, and doesn't do this. But most of my friends' parents just don't care at all, and stop everything their kid is doing so they can go do some sort of chore that doesn't even need to be immediately done.
Hellsing321
Member
This is some of the dumbest horseshit I've seen on Kotaku.
Alternatively, some of us are parents and gamers at the same time, and still won't be taking someone else's FTP game stats into account when making parenting decisions. For a child it's a hobby, not a job. One match isn't a big deal in the long run.
But yes, if everyone was reasonable all the time, it really shouldn't come to that, but on the off chance I need to put my foot down once in a blue moon I won't be taking online gamers precious stats into account, I'll be far more bothered that it's got to that point in the first place.
Acerac
Banned
Mind elaborating at all on why you think so?
LoL is a very poorly designed game. Sometimes it is.
I agree that stats shouldn't be worried about, but I'm sure you teach your child to respect other people's time. Due to the unfortunate way the game is designed one afk can cost dozens of hours.
Granted, they deserve such punishment as to not even consider making that "mistake" again.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
This is one of the most pathetic things I've read in a long time. League players, man.
Absolutely I think my offspring should respect other people's time, but that is done by not starting potentially lengthy games right before bedtime, to stop a slippery slope of begging for more time so as not to annoy the people on the internet.Mind elaborating at all on why you think so?
LoL is a very poorly designed game. Sometimes it is.
I agree that stats shouldn't be worried about, but I'm sure you teach your child to respect other people's time. Due to the unfortunate way the game is designed one afk can cost dozens of hours.
Granted, they deserve such punishment as to not even consider making that "mistake" again.
I'd let a game run if, as said earlier, they started at 8.15 and the game had taken a bit longer than usual, that seems fair, much like if we were playing a board game or watching a film. But if it happened more than once a month then that particular online game would be banned on weeknights. I'd be really unhappy with ten-year-olds playing addictive online league games more than once a week in the first place TBH, but I'm aware they are incredibly popular.
Acerac
Banned
I think we're in agreement then. Respect others' time, but expect consequences if you blow off or try to weasel out of what you need to do. Sounds absolutely fair.
Absolutely, the golden rule of 'don't take the piss' but in more child-friendly termsI think we're in agreement then. Respect others' time, but expect consequences if you blow off or try to weasel out of what you need to do. Sounds absolutely fair.
Are you serious?
Making decisions about whether to postpone certain thing in order to do other things all the time is basically adult life.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
Buncha grown ass men complaining to other people's parents about their w/l in a game. They need to grow up.
Straight to the point
Acerac
Banned
I thought the article was more about respecting other peoples' time; a trait that most would agree is something wise to teach children. Surely you could agree that respecting others, even if you don't know them, is a good thing to teach?
Goldenroad
Member
Exactly. Kids need to respect their parents time and more importantly their parents authority. Parents do not need to be taught to respect the time of some random kid playing video games somewhere else in the world.
CountAntonius
Member
Understanding their kids hobbies and what they are would actually be a positive thing. Put them to bed before they start that match.
Deft Beck
Member
I agree with you.
Goldenroad
Member
Acerac
Banned
What I said contradicts your post, I'm confused as to why you're agreeing with it.
Whatever, some people don't respect the time of others. I'd imagine those who don't are the more successful lot.
Also, very few people who bother to actually read anything before posting.
This is goddamn retarded. How pointless.
I sure as hell wouldn't...
You miss the point he was trying to make. When you're playing a game that revolves around cooperation, there is some responsibility to be had with the other people. That includes not going AFK or leaving in the middle of a game. If the kid knows he has to go to bed at 22.00 and starts a new game at 21.50, I would actually let him finish the game but I wouldn't let him play the next day. He made a decision that wasn't right because he knows Lol matches last longer than 10 minutes, he is going to finish the match because leaving would be disrespectful and at the same time he gets a punishment.
Respecting people in the Internet should be as important and respecting then in the real world. Kids should learn about how they should behave in the net too. Would you scold your kid if he shoot a ball other kids are using to play football to the school roof on purpose? Or does he not need to be taught to respect some random kid he knows nothing about?
It's not a big deal. And perhaps when you have your own children you'll realise just what is. Educating your child and setting boundaries and limits are far more important. By doing this you will create time management skills. A child who has had a game cut off mid match will manage his play time far better in the future.
And like many others have mentioned, it's not about ruling with an iron fist. A degree of common sense helps massively. Allowing the game to finish if there are five minutes left would certainly be the choice of most parents in here, but again within reason. Children/teenagers aren't stupid, and many will try and push as far as they can - we've all been there - but that's when you need to nip it in the bud.
The idea that I should care about someone's online statistics is laughable. It's a game. And if the thought that someone's precious stats may be affected horrifies them then perhaps a game played with random people isn't right for them. It's not about not being mindful of others, it's about teaching the right values so that my child will take action to become mindful of others.
Goldenroad
Member
Respect overall is a very important trait to teach to children, however, respecting your parents has to be put above respecting random people on the internet. I'm saying, best case scenario, be respectful to everyone equally, but if you have to choose to respect your parents wishes or the wishes of some people you're playing a video game with online, if you were raised properly, you would respect the wishes of your parents. That's all I'm getting at.
thegirlleastlikelyto
Member
Acerac
Banned
Out of curiosity what is the issue with letting them finish the game but handing out progressively more strict punishments depending on how much the child feels the need to stretch the rules? Perhaps one warning, then the loss of the mouse for a few days.
That way they will learn to not mess with their parents, but not learn the lesson that people you don't know aren't worth consideration. It's less about statistics, and more about respecting their time investment. Am I wrong to think both morals can be taught simultaneously?
Wow, you really think so? Huh.
Selectively quoting is fun.
Promotion series are horribly designed, and one leaver can easily ruin them. End of the season that can ruin an entire year of work.
It can really suck.
The Crimson Beast
Banned
wat? you don't play league if you think stats can't be fixed. we are talking about a game where a 45min game can also be thrown in the trash because somebody engaged a fight when they shouldn't have. at least you can surrender if somebody leaves early.
Vincent Grayson
Member
That's basically the approach we've taken with my girls.
When they first got into gaming and TV stuff, we set a hard limit. They came home and did homework, or if no homework, read for 30 minutes, and that got them 30 minutes of TV/game time.
But as they got older, I felt like we could give them a little more personal responsibility, so as long as they've done their work/read, they can now play games or watch TV as much as they'd like...with the caveat that if either their mom or I feel like it's excessive, they must stop right then without argument. It's worked pretty well so far, and they're pretty good about allocating their time.
lol @ this all around
It's bad parenting if you suddenly decided the kid has to stop playing with no prior warning. That's the kind of treatment that leads to an unconfident adult. On the other hand if they started a game when they were told they had some other responsibilities to attend to or knows that they'll go over their bed time then I would just go ahead and cut the power/internet off.
Sorry, but if you're having issues with your kid playing this game when they're not supposed to than your problem extends beyond the game addiction. The damage has already been done in your raising of the child in question. If you were able to instill an inner drive and motivation in the teenager to strive for great things you wouldn't even be dealing with such trivial BS. Obviously that's an extreme example but to push your kid towards a lifestyle where he's choosing to play games in an irresponsible fashion and to act all self-righeous when he's in the act? Incompetent as fuck. Take the L and do whatever you think is best for your child but don't act like it's not your fault.
1 match isn't a big deal. If you're good, you'll rise to Diamond eventually. Disagree, and I won't be able to hear you over the rest of the playerbase that thinks they're better than they are. I stopped playing this game a looong time ago but I still lol at how people think they're so unlucky with their matches. Newsflash, no one else (or their stats) is immune from these shitty situation. Lol Like stats other than the fact of you winning or not matters. If you treat it as wasted time then you're basically saying that you play the game to exclusively rank up. Most people sub-diamond (even lower diamond) suck at the game, anyways. There's probably very few of these little kids actually playing this game at a level of significance. To me, complaining about the odd match like this when you know that it's a result of the the design of the game you continue to play is just scrub mentality.
And lol at people shitting on a game like this when most of you go mental over other aspects of gaming.
It's bad parenting if you suddenly decided the kid has to stop playing with no prior warning. That's the kind of treatment that leads to an unconfident adult. On the other hand if they started a game when they were told they had some other responsibilities to attend to or knows that they'll go over their bed time then I would just go ahead and cut the power/internet off.
Sorry, but if you're having issues with your kid playing this game when they're not supposed to than your problem extends beyond the game addiction. The damage has already been done in your raising of the child in question. If you were able to instill an inner drive and motivation in the teenager to strive for great things you wouldn't even be dealing with such trivial BS. Obviously that's an extreme example but to push your kid towards a lifestyle where he's choosing to play games in an irresponsible fashion and to act all self-righeous when he's in the act? Incompetent as fuck. Take the L and do whatever you think is best for your child but don't act like it's not your fault.
1 match isn't a big deal. If you're good, you'll rise to Diamond eventually. Disagree, and I won't be able to hear you over the rest of the playerbase that thinks they're better than they are. I stopped playing this game a looong time ago but I still lol at how people think they're so unlucky with their matches. Newsflash, no one else (or their stats) is immune from these shitty situation. Lol Like stats other than the fact of you winning or not matters. If you treat it as wasted time then you're basically saying that you play the game to exclusively rank up. Most people sub-diamond (even lower diamond) suck at the game, anyways. There's probably very few of these little kids actually playing this game at a level of significance. To me, complaining about the odd match like this when you know that it's a result of the the design of the game you continue to play is just scrub mentality.
And lol at people shitting on a game like this when most of you go mental over other aspects of gaming.
Acerac
Banned
If they never changed from ELO I'd agree with you more. The new system makes no sense and punishes players severely for afk's and whatnot.
Yes you'll end up diamond if you deserve to be there, but there are people like me who started bronze because of afks at the end of one season, and the next where I had legit matches I started gold. That's a separation of many hours of playtime even for very skilled players, decided by a few afks. When ELO was the meter for rankings you didn't have the random stumbling blocks placed in the way of progression where you HAD to win, and I think that is what is causing a lot of frustration.
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
They're just mad that someone leaves and they lose the match, they don't give a rat's ass if a kid is learning to respect others. If you play a match of league and someone leaves no one is saying "my word, how uncouth of that young man, not respecting the time I've invested into this match" they're saying "fucking shit, now we're going to lose."
It's more important to teach kids that there are priorities in life and that sometime there's something more important to do than playing a game. It'll also teach time management so in the future when their mom tells them that dinner is in 20 minutes, they don't go and start of match of league that they know is going to take no less than 45 minutes.
Acerac
Banned
Hmm... I guess I took a different tone from the post than you did, as it seemed to say nothing like "fucking shit, now we're going to lose." If that's all you got from reading it, then I can't say you're wrong, but I respectfully disagree.
As an aside, I was directly using terminology from the post. Where did you get yours from?
Of course. If something important happens, by all means, prioritize it. Randomly deciding that the garbage needs to be taken out NOW is often not one of those things.
First off: I don't play MOBAs, nor am I very knowledgeable about them, so if anything I say about League of Legends is wrong, just ignore this post.
I understand where the author is coming from, and I agree. By doing this, you are not only negatively affecting someones stats, you are actively wasting their time and that just isn't a nice thing to do.
Just ask yourself: Would you want some neckbeard ruin your evening? No? Then maybe let your kid finish the game and afterwards take a look at Step 2 everyone seems to be ignoring here.
If you can't do that, please just forbid your kid to play online games altogether.
Just curious: Is this just because League of Legends is virtual?
Would you interrupt a real life soccer match, which has already been running for 40+ minutes (which would be the equivalent of yanking out a LoL-Summoner mid-match as their teammates have already invested a significant amount of time on top of just losing stats) just to make a point, leaving the rest of the players in a shitty situation?
I understand where the author is coming from, and I agree. By doing this, you are not only negatively affecting someones stats, you are actively wasting their time and that just isn't a nice thing to do.
Just ask yourself: Would you want some neckbeard ruin your evening? No? Then maybe let your kid finish the game and afterwards take a look at Step 2 everyone seems to be ignoring here.
If you can't do that, please just forbid your kid to play online games altogether.
Just curious: Is this just because League of Legends is virtual?
Would you interrupt a real life soccer match, which has already been running for 40+ minutes (which would be the equivalent of yanking out a LoL-Summoner mid-match as their teammates have already invested a significant amount of time on top of just losing stats) just to make a point, leaving the rest of the players in a shitty situation?
No I agree that both can be taught simultaneously, and my method would allow for that. My child would be aware that by managing time properly they won't ruin other peoples games, and like I said it's about common sense too. I wouldn't be running and turning it off instantly after asking them to finish. For me it's about being mindful, both myself and my child. This is definitely a subject where there are many different approaches that would work. I guess it depends on your own upbringing and whether you want to use that or put your own spin on it.
Acerac
Banned
No doubt. I must admit, I'm not a parent myself, but as a son of father who was extremely heavy handed, I must admit it created quite a bit of resentment going forward.
I must admit, I'm very passive in such things. I just don't like the idea of hurting others to teach a lesson. When there are plenty of fine punishments for breaking rules, I'd rather minimize collateral damage. After all, you can leave them with the threat of the guillotine dropping, it should assure that the rest of the game won't be too much fun, eh? Especially if it cuts closer for every blatant "mistake".
... but then, I am admittedly ignorant of such things.
*Edit*
God that's a shitty metaphor. Ugh. Ya'll get my point though. -_-
Growing up just as online gaming got easy, I had quite a few situations where my family wanted me to do things but I couldn't pause. Our system was if I had responsibilities for the day I got told the timing for them, then they could step in and cut me off if I didn't do the work.
I learned to fit games between important stuff, maybe read rather than jump online if a meal was scheduled for within the next ten minutes.
I learned to fit games between important stuff, maybe read rather than jump online if a meal was scheduled for within the next ten minutes.
That sounds like a good system.
They aren't even remotely similar. If my child has a sports game it isn't going to overlap on bedtime or dinner or chores. And neither would an online game if it was started with time in mind. A game started intentionally knowing it would run over becomes an issue, and the consequences of it being turned off would certainly make someone mindful of doing it again.
Put aside the LoL stats. No, they don't matter generally. But just because you don't know the people doesn't mean you can go 'ha fuck them'. While the stats shouldn't be important, you should consider the imoact you will have on others generally - it is simply courtesy to avoid negatively impacting others' experiences if possible.
So for me at least, the likely solution would be to always let my child finish that game and be late/miss a chore etc. and then simply inform them hat they will be punished according to whatever scale is appropriate. Eg first offence you get a warning to understand to manage your time better. Second offence you lose game privileges for 24 hours. Third offence lose games for three days, and so on.
The consequences of turning it off will upset your child and a bunch of other people. Letting the game finish and then removing that game or other sanction also punishes your child but doesn't ounish those they are playing with. I don't see the fascination with turning machines off
So for me at least, the likely solution would be to always let my child finish that game and be late/miss a chore etc. and then simply inform them hat they will be punished according to whatever scale is appropriate. Eg first offence you get a warning to understand to manage your time better. Second offence you lose game privileges for 24 hours. Third offence lose games for three days, and so on.
The consequences of turning it off will upset your child and a bunch of other people. Letting the game finish and then removing that game or other sanction also punishes your child but doesn't ounish those they are playing with. I don't see the fascination with turning machines off
reSpec Gaming
Member
What would be interesting is if parents' started treating eSports as signing up for your kid for regular sports. Give them a set time in which they are supposed to play. Sort of like there being a set time for there to be practice. Watch a game once a week maybe even, sort of like watching your kid play a sport every once in awhile. I treat LoL much like a treat rec sports now - in fact, I schedule in time to play LoL as if I'm supposed to be there at a certain time (mostly because I have to schedule everything in my life kind of but, that's another topic).
TL;DR: Getting your kid to play LoL can kind of be like getting your kid to play regular sports, have a schedule they can play, support them like you're a soccer dad/mom.
TL;DR: Getting your kid to play LoL can kind of be like getting your kid to play regular sports, have a schedule they can play, support them like you're a soccer dad/mom.
Extra Sauce
Member
The idea of videogame as legitimate sport/competition is still too recent and contested to hope for an older generation to do anything but scoff at this open letter.
antiquegamer
Member
This happen several times with my kid I play LoL and MMO and understand the negative impact but do you know what as a parents i would still make my child stop playing when I told him too. I might sometimes give him few mins to finish up but if he can't well he or she will need to learn better time management and having it negatively impact his gaming so he or she will learn not to do it again is better than let it slide and punish him or her later.