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[D Bo Chops]

Looks like an upside down Xbox360 controller. Would be interested in holding one for myself to see how ergonomic it really is.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Okay I just saw a video where the r2 and l2 buttons have a digital click at the end and now I want it just to properly emulate gamecube games.

 

[Pandy]

I don't like the look of the layout compared with some of the previous versions, but I'll probably still pick one up to try it out.

I figure E-bay will bring easy pickings a week or two after launch.

 

[Nerrel]

The button placements don't bother me. It's like the Wii U Pro Controller, which I love.

I prefer the Wii U layout by a good margin. I find my thumb on the stick more than the face buttons, so it makes sense to give the stick the more comfortable primary position.

The only problem is that the relation of the stick to the buttons is changed; X and A are closest to the stick, so they have to be considered the primary buttons (not Y and B, as on Xbox). Otherwise, your thumb will keep having to reach over X/A to hit Y/B all the time. The Mayflash adapter makes this swap by default in Xinput mode, with the bonus being that onscreen button prompts are correct ("X" on screen is actually X on the pad, etc).


It makes me wish Steam hadn't gone with Microsoft's reversed Xbox orientation. By default, games will now treat the X and A buttons as the primary ones when Y and B are actually closer to the trackpad. If you remap Steam's X-Y and B-A to compensate then onscreen prompts may get confusing. Had they used the Nintendo XYBA layout, then they could map things in reverse and keep the prompts simple, just like the Mayflash adapter does.

I assume if you use the Steam controller in legacy mode as a kb+mouse that the prompts won't display as XYBA buttons but keyboard keys, so it may be a non-issue for older games at least.

 

[Nzyme32]

Not sure if anyone has posted PCWorlds opinions on the controller and Link. They actually got some intereting info from a Valve employee on the controller

• Takes about 2 hours to get used to it
• The best controller configurations were found to be the ones where you don't take your thumbs away from the trackpads - implying abxy mapped to the pads as well as the analogue stick on the other pad
• Suggestion that the button diamond and analogue stick are just to help you transition over to the pads - which was also the suggestion when the analogue stick was first spotted by SteamDB and someone asked Valve

The analog stick and the ABXY buttons are like training wheels. At one point during my demo of Unreal Tournament I complained how hard it was to get my thumb over to the ABXY buttons and then back on the right haptic pad. Valve flat-out told me, “We’ve found that the best control schemes don’t ever force you to take your hands off the pads.” Those buttons are an extraneous compromise to people like me (and maybe you) who are so entrenched in an ABXY culture that we don’t feel comfortable giving it up, even though the Steam Controller’s touchpads click in and thus somewhat emulate the ABXY buttons on their own.

Valve’s goal seems to be to trick you into taking advantage of the Steam Controller. By adding an analog stick and the ABXY buttons they’ve made it more palatable so you’ll check it out. And then once you’ve checked it out, you’ll (they’ll hope) realize the old control schemes are way less efficient.

 

[ashecitism]

Ah, interesting. Thanks! On phone, cant't update OP now.

 

[Nzyme32]

Ah, interesting. Thanks! On phone, cant't update OP now.

Also a Steam Link tid bit that is great news:

One last interesting thing I learned: Despite early reports that this was a “Steam streaming machine,” I confirmed with Valve that you can in fact stream anything from your PC, including just your pure desktop environment (or a browser running Netflix, Spotify, whatever).

 

[dsk1210]

I think I may have mentioned before, I used the style of control they are talking about with DMC.

I had the four attack face buttons on the shoulders, the dodge on the left stick click and I can't remember the rest of the configuration, it worked fantastically well. I had just came from playing Dark Souls and had just been testing out using that controle method so I could keep camera movement on constent access.

 

[Nzyme32]

I think I may have mentioned before, I used the style of control they are talking about with DMC.

I had the four attack buttons on the shoulders, the dodge on the left stick click and I can't remember the rest of the configuration, it worked fantastically well. I had just came from playing Dark Souls and had just been testing out using that controle method so I could keep camera movement on constent access.

Good stuff, thanks! That certainly sounds positive if you are happy with it in DMC and Souls. Valve should have made that more well known to the press so they are more inclined to actually sit down and try it for a while. Seems like this journalist is the only one to get that info

 

[Bizzquik]

Thanks for all the impressions, ashecitism.

I really, really want to try this controller with a Paradox game - with alternate interface - while sitting on my couch.

Once we see how the controller works in conjunction with the UI being updated for viewing from 10 feet away....my smile will be ear-to-ear.

 

[Miguel81]

Is it known if the pad uses bluetooth still? Google search only shows articles mentioning that from the beginning of last year.

 

[viveks86]

Not sure if anyone has posted PCWorlds opinions on the controller and Link. They actually got some intereting info from a Valve employee on the controller

• Takes about 2 hours to get used to it
• The best controller configurations were found to be the ones where you don't take your thumbs away from the trackpads - implying abxy mapped to the pads as well as the analogue stick on the other pad
• Suggestion that the button diamond and analogue stick are just to help you transition over to the pads - which was also the suggestion when the analogue stick was first spotted by SteamDB and someone asked Valve

Interesting. So that is inline with their objective to replicate the keyboard and mouse experience. Left hand on WASD (or arrows) and right hand on mouse. Any buttons other than triggers and shoulder buttons are to be used as secondary input. With additional buttons on the rear, they are trying to render the analog stick and face buttons as obsolete, relegating them to secondary or tertiary input if at all needed.

 

[Big Takeover]

Not sure if anyone has posted PCWorlds opinions on the controller and Link. They actually got some intereting info from a Valve employee on the controller

• Takes about 2 hours to get used to it
• The best controller configurations were found to be the ones where you don't take your thumbs away from the trackpads - implying abxy mapped to the pads as well as the analogue stick on the other pad
• Suggestion that the button diamond and analogue stick are just to help you transition over to the pads - which was also the suggestion when the analogue stick was first spotted by SteamDB and someone asked Valve

The analog stick and the ABXY buttons are like training wheels. At one point during my demo of Unreal Tournament I complained how hard it was to get my thumb over to the ABXY buttons and then back on the right haptic pad. Valve flat-out told me, “We’ve found that the best control schemes don’t ever force you to take your hands off the pads.” Those buttons are an extraneous compromise to people like me (and maybe you) who are so entrenched in an ABXY culture that we don’t feel comfortable giving it up, even though the Steam Controller’s touchpads click in and thus somewhat emulate the ABXY buttons on their own.

Valve’s goal seems to be to trick you into taking advantage of the Steam Controller. By adding an analog stick and the ABXY buttons they’ve made it more palatable so you’ll check it out. And then once you’ve checked it out, you’ll (they’ll hope) realize the old control schemes are way less efficient.

Interesting. I'll eagerly await the pro controller for the uninhibited.

 

[Chuck]

"these triggers are beautiful!"
>>calls the shitty gamecube controller brilliant

LOL

 

[Forsaken82]

If it passes the UT test I will buy it. And by pass I mean being able to compete with mouse and keyboard players. Well at least better than a normal controller. Intrigued about configurations for games with no controller support like cRPGs

I am looking forward to the Steam Controller, but I think it will fail that test...

I think you will hold your own, but never be able to play at a high competitive level.

 

[Exuro]

I really want to see someone playing UT with the trackpad configuration. I remember them showing it using portal 2 a year ago and am excited to try that out.

 

[Lowmelody]

"these triggers are beautiful!"
>>calls the shitty gamecube controller brilliant

LOL

u wot

 

[Mexen]

I think this is one of those things where no matter how well somebody describes it, you need to try yourself to form an opinion.

Lol. Agreed.

 

[ashecitism]

I think I may have mentioned before, I used the style of control they are talking about with DMC.

I had the four attack face buttons on the shoulders, the dodge on the left stick click and I can't remember the rest of the configuration, it worked fantastically well. I had just came from playing Dark Souls and had just been testing out using that controle method so I could keep camera movement on constent access.

You mean on the Steam Controller?

 

[glaurung]

Not sold on the convex thumstick.

Quoted for truth.

All other controller makers have moved away from the convex style. Both DS4 and Xbox One controller have excellent sticks. It makes no sense that Valve would not follow suit.

 

[Cheeseman Battitude]

The only problem is that the relation of the stick to the buttons is changed; X and A are closest to the stick, so they have to be considered the primary buttons (not Y and B, as on Xbox).

Unless I'm missing something, I think you've got that the wrong way round. on 360 and Xbone AX are directly above the stick.

 

[ashecitism]

first time seeing the dongle

http://gizmodo.com/steam-machines-are-back-1689701265

It's so much better now. The final Steam Controller kept the weird touchpads (which let it emulate a surprisingly precise mouse), but also added a proper joystick, traditional face buttons and a lot of refinement. The "learning curve" I used as an excuse for the original prototype's awkwardness is severely diminished. Within mere minutes of using it, I was deftly using its touchpads to guide The Talos Principle's robotic protagonist through corridors. I dodged flak cannons in Unreal Tournament. I was comfortably performing precise motions I just couldn't get right on the earlier prototypes. It's quieter, too. I can still hear the engine humming which drives the Steam Controller's haptic feedback (a light ticking sensation that follows your thumbs across the touchpad), but it's no longer so loud that it's distracting.

There is still a learning curve, of course—the touchpads are uniquely alien compared to other game controllers—but they're no longer daunting or insurmountable. It reminds me of the first time I tried using a mouse to control a first-person shooter on the PC: it's more sensitive than I expected and I'm worried I'll lose control. I didn't back then. I don't think I will when the Steam Controller comes out, either.

aaaand I think that's it for the press. The controller's at PAX now.

 

[LordOfChaos]

The analog stick and the ABXY buttons are like training wheels. At one point during my demo of Unreal Tournament I complained how hard it was to get my thumb over to the ABXY buttons and then back on the right haptic pad. Valve flat-out told me, “We’ve found that the best control schemes don’t ever force you to take your hands off the pads.” Those buttons are an extraneous compromise to people like me (and maybe you) who are so entrenched in an ABXY culture that we don’t feel comfortable giving it up, even though the Steam Controller’s touchpads click in and thus somewhat emulate the ABXY buttons on their own.

Valve’s goal seems to be to trick you into taking advantage of the Steam Controller. By adding an analog stick and the ABXY buttons they’ve made it more palatable so you’ll check it out. And then once you’ve checked it out, you’ll (they’ll hope) realize the old control schemes are way less efficient.

Hm. How do the trackpads replace ABXY though? Like, clicking in a corner of them would map to a button or something? That could interfere with their normal click function though, I can't imagine how that would work well, or am I thinking along the wrong lines?

 

[The Cowboy]

I may have missed this info, but does the controller have rumble motors?, i know the trackpads have that haptic feedback - but do they also have regular rumble motors on the main body like the 360/one/PS3/PS4 pads?.

Also, do we know if the configuration/rebinding/sensitivity stuff requires Steam or will it be using standalone software?.

 

[Sendou]

Hm. How do the trackpads replace ABXY though? Like, clicking in a corner of them would map to a button or something? That could interfere with their normal click function though, I can't imagine how that would work well, or am I thinking along the wrong lines?

I would imagine if you map clicks to ABXY then you wouldn't map another function to a click. Although I'm guessing (and this is just a guess) that you can actually map five different clicks to one trackpad. Four on the sides and one in the middle. Not sure if that would be optimal though. Can't really think why'd you need 5 clicks per trackpad.

 

[Gumbie]

Really curious to know if the wireless range on this is better than Microsoft's 360 wireless dongle.

 

[ashecitism]

I may have missed this info, but does the controller have rumble motors?, i know the trackpads have that haptic feedback - but do they also have regular rumble motors on the main body like the 360/one/PS3/PS4 pads?.

I don't know if the final version has rumble. No one touched on that. This is was EG wrote

The force feedback witnessed in console controllers is also enhanced - there are numerous possibilities, such as directional feedback on the left pad that corresponds with where you're taking damage from in a first person shooter, or the persistent chug of a machine gun being sent through your right thumb when you're pulling down on the trigger. Combined, they're the kind of forward-thinking innovations that were perhaps absent when Sony and Microsoft rolled out their own new generation of controllers to accompany their new hardware.

which makes me think it's only the haptics that's present

Also, do we know if the configuration/rebinding/sensitifit stuff requires Steam or will it be using standalone software?.

Steam.

 

[Nzyme32]

first time seeing the dongle



http://gizmodo.com/steam-machines-are-back-1689701265










aaaand I think that's it for the press. The controller's at PAX now.

Excellent. Although I'm wondering what happened to the idea of ghost mode and mode switching, and why the grips are not mentioned. I have a funny feeling Valve simply didn't bother giving the option / games for it since it may have lead to more confused journalists perhaps.

Really curious to know if the wireless range on this is better than Microsoft's 360 wireless dongle.

Great question. What's the range of the 360 wireless? I think the steam controller is sine custom Bluetooth variant but still compatible with Bluetooth - you just loose the reduced latency. You get the dongle provided anyway.

Wonder what the battery life is like also

 

[Sendou]

Both haptic and rumble might be an overkill. Especially considering it's "every input" that's haptic.

 

[DeaviL]

So, how much hope for a stickless version as it is only there for training wheel purposes?
I'd rather have more buttons really...

 

[ashecitism]

Excellent. Although I'm wondering what happened to the idea of ghost mode and mode switching, and why the grips are not mentioned. I have a funny feeling Valve simply didn't bother giving the option / games for it since it may have lead to more confused journalists perhaps.

Good question regarding the former two. I hope Valve didn't ditch those functions, and it's as you said. He mentiones the grips, and there are pics of it.

 

[Somnid]

It seems like Valve is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. They want to bring the keyboard experience to a living room, seemingly unaware that people don't want to emulate a keyboard in the living room and if they needed one the software is going down the wrong track. It buys you nothing, the games for Steam Machines will need to be updated anyway and so just let the devs make a controller scheme. In fact, for any non-legacy game it probably already has one.

 

[Sendou]

It seems like Valve is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. They want to bring the keyboard experience to a living room, seemingly unaware that people don't want to emulate a keyboard in the living room and if they needed one the software is going down the wrong track. It buys you nothing, the games for Steam Machines will need to be updated anyway and so just let the devs make a controller scheme. In fact, for any non-legacy game it probably already has one.

Of course it's a problem and this is the solution. Many of the most popular PC games just can't be played with the consoles' controllers. It's not even the keyboard that's the biggest problem but rather the mouse. A stick can't compare.

"It buys you nothing, the games for Steam Machines will need to be updated anyway"

I don't see what you mean by this. They absolutely do not need to be updated. Unless you count Linux as such but we already have quite a few Linux games. Developer adding a support might be optimal but even if they don't (most won't) it won't matter.

 

[Maztorre]

It seems like Valve is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. They want to bring the keyboard experience to a living room, seemingly unaware that people don't want to emulate a keyboard in the living room and if they needed one the software is going down the wrong track. It buys you nothing, the games for Steam Machines will need to be updated anyway and so just let the devs make a controller scheme. In fact, for any non-legacy game it probably already has one.

Except the problem does exist. I want a controller that will reliably let me play PC-centric genres that isn't crippled by being forced into dual analog sticks. I want a comfortable way to play Civ or Crusader Kings 2 from my couch. You think an Xbox controller will provide that?

This notion that all progress should be dictated by whatever console controllers are available at the time is complete garbage. Especially when useful functionality of console controllers is dropped or adopted on a whim from generation to generation (see: "rumble is a last-gen feature" when PS3 was revealed, the abandonment of the fantastic dual-stage Gamecube triggers, the crapshoot of console d-pad quality from one generation to the next).

An open platform like PC especially should have had options like this for a while now.

 

[Nerrel]

Unless I'm missing something, I think you've got that the wrong way round. on 360 and Xbone AX are directly above the stick.

I was talking about it in terms of Nintendo's orientation. Y and B are in the same spots as X and A on the Xbox controllers... It's confusing.

Resident Evil 6 uses A to run and X to collect items. On Xbox, these buttons are right near the stick and can be accessed fastest. On Wii U Pro, you would have to change these actions to Y and B to keep them in the same position on the diamond.

But Wii U's Y and B are farthest the stick, so this would make them the slowest buttons to access. So, it works out best to reverse the placement of each action on the diamond and use X and A as the main buttons, even though the feel of the controls is fundamentally changed by making the diamond backwards like this this.


Steam's controller will map buttons just like Xbox by default, which means running in RE6 would still be on A, the button farthest from the trackpad. X-Y and A-B would have to be reversed to prevent all the extra reaching that would result from that, just as they are on the U Pro.

It's not a major problem but it's something worth noting, as I have had to adjust control schemes to compensate for the U Pro's reversed stick position. Steam will allow this to be done easily but I'm concerned about whether on screen prompts will be harder to follow if all the buttons are reverse mapped.

 

[PeterVenkman]

Except the problem does exist. I want a controller that will reliably let me play PC-centric genres that isn't crippled by being forced into dual analog sticks. I want a comfortable way to play Civ or Crusader Kings 2 from my couch. You think an Xbox controller will provide that?

This notion that all progress should be dictated by whatever console controllers are available at the time is complete garbage. Especially when useful functionality of console controllers is dropped or adopted on a whim from generation to generation (see: "rumble is a last-gen feature" when PS3 was revealed, the abandonment of the fantastic dual-stage Gamecube triggers, the crapshoot of console d-pad quality from one generation to the next).

An open platform like PC especially should have had options like this for a while now.

Bingo! I've been gaming with my PC in the living room for a year now - this thing is arriving at the perfect time. I have a full kb/m setup for the couch if ncesasary, but aside from typing this is great.

There are so many of games that don't tke a controller for input - i cannot wait to use this thing

 

[Sendou]

I was talking about it in terms of Nintendo's orientation. Y and B are in the same spots as X and A on the Xbox controllers... It's confusing.

Resident Evil 6 uses A to run and X to collect items. On Xbox, these buttons are right near the stick and can be accessed fastest. On Wii U Pro, you would have to change these actions to Y and B to keep them in the same position on the diamond.

But Wii U's Y and B are farthest the stick, so this would make them the slowest buttons to access. So, it works out best to reverse the placement of each action on the diamond and use X and A as the main buttons, even though the feel of the controls is fundamentally changed by making the diamond backwards like this this.


Steam's controller will map buttons just like Xbox by default, which means running in RE6 would still be on A, the button farthest from the trackpad. X-Y and A-B would have to be reversed to prevent all the extra reaching that would result from that, just as they are on the U Pro.

It's not a major problem but it's something worth noting, as I have had to adjust control schemes to compensate for the U Pro's reversed stick position. Steam will allow this to be done easily but I'm concerned about whether on screen prompts will be harder to follow if all the buttons are reverse mapped.

If those are your concerns then you should map the ABXY functions to different segments of trackpad anyway.

 

[Astral/H3X]

It seems like Valve is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. They want to bring the keyboard experience to a living room, seemingly unaware that people don't want to emulate a keyboard in the living room and if they needed one the software is going down the wrong track. It buys you nothing, the games for Steam Machines will need to be updated anyway and so just let the devs make a controller scheme. In fact, for any non-legacy game it probably already has one.

Personally I'm really excited to use this just to replace controllers, even in controller enabled games. Sure, these games WORK with controllers, but a stick to aim is such a god awful scheme that I can't wait to be rid of it. I don't expect to be as proficient with the Steam Controller as I am with a mouse, but I mainly play single player games, and having the comfort of a controller, with the Steam Controller, is incredibly exciting to me.

 

[Shadowhaxor]

Had some hands on with the controller at PAX East (Thanks Alienware) and I'm not impressed as much as I thought I would have been. The feel of the controller is old, most due to the trackpad placement, more so the analog placement. I wish there were better games to showcase the controller however.

 

[gafneo]

You could get rid of the buttons on the right and just use the touchpad for them. Like the haptic feedback buttons here:

Though I have no idea how that would hold up after so many presses.

What is that? I like it

 

[Boombox On]

Wait up... so what happened to the daisy wheel? I can see why this is good for people with the Steam Controller, but I still hope there's at least an option.

 

[ashecitism]

Probably still there if you use a regular controller.

Had some hands on with the controller at PAX East (Thanks Alienware) and I'm not impressed as much as I thought I would have been. The feel of the controller is old, most due to the trackpad placement, more so the analog placement. I wish there were better games to showcase the controller however.

What games did you play? And for how much time?

 

[Weltall Zero]

It seems like Valve is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. They want to bring the keyboard experience to a living room, seemingly unaware that people don't want to emulate a keyboard in the living room and if they needed one the software is going down the wrong track. It buys you nothing, the games for Steam Machines will need to be updated anyway and so just let the devs make a controller scheme. In fact, for any non-legacy game it probably already has one.

This is the most ignorant post I've seen all day. Tons of current games still have only KB/M input, and even XPadder and the like can only help so much with emulating them. I, and a few dozen GAFers at least, play Guild Wars 2 with a custom controller scheme that took me and Hawkian a few months to develop and works amazingly, but only because GW2 is unlike most other MMOs. I still want to play FTL and many others on my couch, where I have my computer set up (I'm typing this post, and everything from last summer to right now, in a wireless mini-keyboard-and-trackball).

The fact that you don't have a need doesn't give you any right to say what people need or want; that's just myopic.

 

[SteveWD40]

I would love to see a video of UT4 using this, pref. a Valve staffer who has had time to get used to it.

 

[Nev]

Wait, fucking BATTERIES in 2015? I'm out. My hype was in outer space and now it's buried. Fuck you Valve.

 

[Real Hero]

"these triggers are beautiful!"
>>calls the shitty gamecube controller brilliant

LOL

by shitty you mean best right?

 

[H4r4kiri]

I am still not sure, that those things are precise. They are aimed for RTS and Shooters, but I think the mouse will always more precise and better.
I have to test this controller myself. I am normally pretty good with controller aiming.

 

[Tobor]

I would love to see a video of UT4 using this, pref. a Valve staffer who has had time to get used to it.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=l-ayB6U3l2g

Go to 8:50 for UT with a Steam Controller. Looks fantastic(the controller).

 

[baterism]

I'm still unsure about how well game like Civ V would play. If it good, might be better than destroying my wrist from using mouse too long.

AA battery is plus for me. Love me my enelop.

 

[nib95]

I think this is one of those things where no matter how well somebody describes it, you need to try yourself to form an opinion.

Pretty much. It still looks a bit too unfamiliar for my liking, but I'm certainly interested and willing to give it a try, and ultimately buy one if I like it.