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Black Mesa now out in Early Access. $20.

KainXVIII

KainXVIII

Member
Meh, looks underwhelming for 2015 release (and paid mod). And without Xen? What the hell they are doing all this years?
 
abracadaver

abracadaver

Member
ashecitism said:
The guy who did the uncut versions has since joined the team. They won't be officially included, however he will upload them to the workshop in a couple of weeks.
Click to expand...

That sucks. Why not include it in the main game? It's still in early access they can still change everything if they want to.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
Here's an older post where one of them expands on "why do MP in the first place?"

We get that not everyone cares about multiplayer, we do. There'll be things for you guys, too. Plenty, don't you worry.

We think MP is great. HLDM was actually a fantastic game but it really got glossed over - very underrated. There isn't much like it around nowadays. We won't change the world, but I think we've made a really cool, neat MP title which fans will enjoy. Plus, it was part of the original Half-Life, too.

We're not aiming to compete with Dota, CS:GO, etc, of course not. We're an indie game, we can't. But what we can do is build a fun multiplayer shooter which people will occasionally hop into, and have a blast with their friends. A welcome dose of Half-Life. Where, while waiting for Xen, people can build all sorts of awesome and cool stuff in our game, put it on the workshop, and form a community around. Prototype great new ideas with our flexible SDK. Create amazing stuff in community contests. Tell us new stuff you want, stuff you want changed/fixed, while we discuss with you and listen.

It just generally allows us to interact with you guys, form channels for dialogue. Build and engage a community while we quietly chip away at the vast Xen workload. Seemed a superior option all around to us just silently working on Xen for years. Both for you guys, and for us.

It's also part of our "new direction". Myself in particular, as well as a lot of the new guys, don't think the team's go-to method of "radio silence" is the way to work. So we're changing that, and MP is the biggest way in which we can.
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http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1266077&p=47435519&viewfull=1#post47435519

abracadaver said:
That sucks. Why not include it in the main game? It's still in early access they can still change everything if they want to.
Click to expand...

The team isn't willing to do that, and I'm personally not willing to do that either - as the creator! The version of On a Rail which was released in the mod fits the vision of what the team wanted for that chapter. The decision to cut it down was a conscious one, not an issue of time/resource constraints, like Surface Tension's cuts were. It's not how I would have done it personally, but it's not my decision. How my mod turned out is also not how I would do it, not anymore, which is a big part of the reason why I'm not happy to have it in either.

I also completely disagree that you don't get a sense of how expansive the BMRF is without them. The maps cut from the original OaR looped in a spiral, upwards, around the rocket. You hardly traveled any lateral distance whatsoever when you looked at it on an overview map. Their omission just makes OaR's journey in particular feel a lot smaller, but I think extending that logic to the entire facility is a bit of a stretch. The vast majority of the other maps in BMS are sized up from their originals, both in distance and just general size. 2 of the maps cut from OaR were literally loops. We had huge discussions about all of this in the OaRU thread on the BMS forums, back when I started on it.

You have to understand the huge workload we already have on our plate. People keep saying about stuff like OaRU, STU, Hazard Course, etc, etc - oh, just take them, redesign them to make them better, and put them in officially. It's absolutely not that simple. It's months of work, from every department. We're already overloaded without this stuff as is. We do want to actually release the game at some point, constantly adding to our workloads is a surefire way to block ourselves from that goal.

It will be there in mod form if you want to play it, and will be as simple as clicking the "subscribe" button. If my work doesn't satisfy people, well, a talented modder can always do better than I did, fire up the SDK and make a better vision themselves! That's exactly what I tried to do back when I started. I will probably revisit Surface Tension Uncut from scratch someday, especially knowing I'm a massively better mapper now than I was 3 years ago. OaRU? Less likely, but it's on the cards too...in the distant future.
Click to expand...

http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1266077&p=47391418&viewfull=1#post47391418
 
A

Armaly

Member
Did the devs do the wiki?

02aa091833.png


Edit: Nvm, was under the impression that they were just leaving the free version as is.
 
The Iron Yuppie

The Iron Yuppie

Member
I was looking forward to this for a long time but honestly forgot about it when they posted the free mod. Gonna correct that mistake tonight.
 
B

Bedlam

Member
If the MP feels right, and by that I mean that it feels exactly like HL1, then it might actually be worth it.

Xen, however, .... eh....
 
P

playXray

Member
This looks amazing, just about to buy it. Not sure what to make of the Zen stuff - it was never that good to begin with, so I don't mind not being able to play it yet. Once it's ready if they manage to improve it then I'll be really chuffed.

Can't wait to get into this - I haven't played Half-Life since 2002!
 
E

epmode

Member
Are there any tweaks to the long jump behavior in the paid version? You have to use it all the time in the free mod. It's almost like the mod team didn't decide on a final jump height until after the levels were built and just said "fuck it, long jump everywhere!"

I'd also appreciate some AI tweaks for the human soldiers. Accuracy changes at the very least.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
epmode said:
Are there any tweaks to the long jump behavior in the paid version? You have to use it all the time in the free mod. It's almost like the mod team didn't decide on a final jump height until after the levels were built and just said "fuck it, long jump everywhere!"

I'd also appreciate some AI tweaks for the human soldiers. Accuracy changes at the very least.
Click to expand...

from facepunch

They did increase jump height and there's now "sv_jump_height" cvar, although skill.cfg defaults it to 34. Kinda of an odd value. Also, "Always Run" option doesn't seem to work even though it's enabled by default.
Click to expand...

There's a bunny-hop cap in place now. Kind of unfortunate, I think - the high speed movement was a major part in what made HL1 Deathmatch so much fun for me.
Click to expand...
 
MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Member
KainXVIII said:
Meh, looks underwhelming for 2015 release (and paid mod). And without Xen? What the hell they are doing all this years?
Click to expand...

I don't know why people are calling this a mod? It was built using the Source SDK and all the game assets were created from scratch. It is an original fan recreation of the first Half-Life, not a mod.

On hand it does look a bit underwhelming for a 2015 release. But on the other hand, this was created out of voluntary work and it is impressive to see a fan made game make it to the end of development.

I think Valve is smart by letting them release this as a paid game on early access. It could be a great advertisement for the Source SDK and a prime example to show tho people interested in making total conversions that this is a viable way to make a game and sell it for money over Steam. It really advertises the advantage of using their development tools over Unity 5 or Unreal 4 if you plan on selling something exclusively on their platform.



As for Half-Life Source. I liked it and played it through to the end. But there were a few things that annoyed me that I hope they fix. For one thing, the combat was very duck and cover. I remember hiding behind a lot of barricades and taking a lot of cover during firefights. Which feels off for a Half-Life game. Secondly, the jumping was weird. I remember crouch jumping for large portions of the game, which was annoying. Now, I realize that the crouch jump was part of the original Half-Life 1 as well, but I don;t remember using it for every second jump in the game.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
KainXVIII said:
Meh, looks underwhelming for 2015 release (and paid mod). And without Xen? What the hell they are doing all this years?
Click to expand...

1. Porting to a new branch of Source and making improvements to the game with the new engine. This was required by Valve to license the Half Life IP and Source Engine.

2. Building and balancing multiplayer.

3. Making improvements to the base game based on 2 years of feedback

4. Working on Xen, which appears to be particularly challenging because of its complexity, physics and map size. Plus they want to improve it, since Xen was kind of a bland ending to an amazing game with an amazing world around it.

5. Doing this without being paid in their spare time.
 
F

flaxknuckles

Member
The graphics and the new animations look really nice but the enemy hit reactions to gun shots are still bunk. Will still buy it when Xen version releases.
 
Ä

Älg

Member
I absolutely can't fathom why anyone would ever want to buy an early access version of what is mainly a single player game. It absolutely boggles my mind that anyone would do that to themselves.
Then again, I could say that about early access all together.

But whatever floats your boat, I guess.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
MrCunningham said:
I think Valve is smart by letting them release this as a paid game on early access. It could be a great advertisement for the Source SDK and a prime example to show tho people interested in making total conversions that this is a viable way to make a game and sell it for money over Steam. It really advertises the advantage of using their development tools over Unity 5 or Unreal 4 if you plan on selling something on Steam.
Click to expand...

Valve doesn't license out Source anymore and Source 2 will have more advanced tools than this, so if anything this is Source's swansong.
 
C

Chezzymann

Member
Älg;162786112 said:
I absolutely can't fathom why anyone would ever want to buy an early access version of what is mainly a single player game. It absolutely boggles my mind that anyone would do that to themselves.
Then again, I could that about early access all together.

But whatever floats your boat, I guess.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I got the mod a couple years ago, realized it was only half done, and put it on hold. Still putting it on hold until its done. No sense in buying it now since you'll just be stuck waiting for them to finish it.
 
MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Member
ashecitism said:
Valve doesn't license out Source anymore and Source 2 will have more advanced tools than this, so if anything this is Source's swansong.
Click to expand...

Does it really matter if it is Source 1 or Source 2, though? Either way, the Source 2 SDK will more than likely be accessible in the same way that the Source 2013 SDK is available in now. I think this can be used as an example of how this business model can make amateur and indie developers money.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
The wiki hasn't been updated in over a year. They said this

The article on the wiki regarding the HEV voice is currently out of date, and needs to be updated here in the near future. Our Webmaster is working on a newer version of the wiki layout, so the update for that article has been put on hold for a bit.
Click to expand...

though that part in the wiki also has this

However, Valve has granted the Dev Team permission to sell Black Mesa as a retail game on Steam. They will also continue to update and support the free mod version
Click to expand...
 
K

Keasar

Member
warheat said:
I'm cool with this because all the hardwork they put in this game but what happened to this?
Click to expand...

The free version they released as a mod a long time ago is still free, but yeah, I can see this being as going back a bit on their words.
 
M

Mman235

Member
Reading parts of that Facepunch thread has sold me on the new version; it sounds like they've really gone all-in on tweaking the gameplay issues I have with Black Mesa (which are what stopped me considering it a full replacement for the original), and with the uncut mods easily available to fix the gaps this new version might bring it to REmake type levels for me (at least when Xen is done).
 
F

finley83

Banned
Will pick this up on next payday. Can't believe people are complaining about this being sold on Steam, especially when the mod version is still available (and amazing!)
 
O

OrlanisWorks

Banned
I can't put money towards thing and likely never will. But best of luck to them. They've put in a lot of hard work remaking half life.
 
Spazznid

Spazznid

Member
If you've been missing that 2004-ish playing online mods on the source engine feel, then this is where it is. Just played an hour or so of the Team Death Match and it feels wonderful. Like re-living the mod scene. And it's loads of fun.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
Oh wow, fov_desired can go above 90. I am able to use my comfort spot of an FOV of 110.

TextFAMGUY1, you guys are going to keep that and are just going to make the menu reflect that in the future, right? Because some of us, like myself, almost barely get motion sickness at 90 or below FOV.
Click to expand...

Is this a first for Source?
 
Agent_4Seven

Agent_4Seven

Tears of Nintendo
Nope, I will not pay for a mod, NFW. This needs to be stopped now, or soon we will see Skywind on Steam for $20. Half-Life 2: Update was and still is a free download. What makes them think that they are in the right position to ask money to actually finish the mod which is 85% completed? Why even bother to change the game engine which was perfect at the first place in the free mod? It's all sound like an excuse to ask money to me, nothing more.
 
L

Lingitiz

Member
Agent_4Seven said:
Nope, I will not pay for a mod, NFW. This needs to be stopped now, or soon we will see Skywind on Steam for $20. Half Life 2 Update was and still is a free download.
Click to expand...

I'd pay $20 for Skywind with the assurance that it will actually release and run without a huge hassle.

If adding a price to this gets it out in the near future I'm all for it. Anytime I see huge overhaul conversion mods I immediately assume it will never be finished.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Agent_4Seven said:
Nope, I will not pay for a mod, NFW. This needs to be stopped now, or soon we will see Skywind on Steam for $20. Half Life 2 Update was and still is a free download.
Click to expand...

This isn't a mod. You're buying a proper release of a game that started as a mod.

Unless you didn't buy Chivalry, Counter Strike, or you know, the other large amount of games that were once mods and then became retail products...
 
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