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[Anton Sugar]

Big impact, not insane.

As I've said multiple times in this thread, it's obvious there was a downgrade that CDPR is tiptoeing around.

However, I find it pointless to make comparisons when we don't know which variables are being controlled (and in which way).

Here's the effect of Sharpening in The Witcher 2:

Note in the sharpened pic:

-The more muted foliage colors (a big complaint about TW3's release version)
-The perceived detail "added" to textures (another complaint about TW3's assets)
-The perceived shadow detail "added" to foliage (yet another big complaint)

And then we have this comparison pic (top is old screens, middle is release version, ignore the bottom--it's the guy's attempt to match the color):

Note that, between the first two rows, we consistently lose texture and shadow detail, as well as a different tone to certain colors.

Again: it's obvious a downgrade occurred. I just think it may not be AS severe as some people (and their comparison posts) are making it out to be.

 

[Leb]

I think the people who believe that the 'pre-downgrade' footage wasn't of the actual game are gullible. It was clearly the game, playable by employees but not released to anyone outside. Surely that's what the guy means when he says 'wasn't playable'. They're not going to build all those areas and chuck it out. It's clearly the same game that's been stripped of high quality assets.

I agree wholeheartedly. There are really two scenarios here:

1.) What we were shown in 2013 was a vertical slice representing their aspirational goals for the game's aesthetic and as they iterated on that design, development realities led to the game as it exists today

2.) They built the entire game, engine and assets, at a level of fidelity equal to that of the 2013 trailer but realizing entirely too late that they had overshot, they heavily refactored the engine and rebuilt all the assets

Now, any man of good breeding can clearly see that the second scenario is the only remotely plausible scenario and it frankly beggars belief that there might exist an ill-bred sot so deluded that he might actually entertain the possibility of the first scenario.

 

[Derp]

I'm hesitant now to use "Ultra" as a comparison for MAX PC graphics. The IGN livestream was a PC on Ultra but it had the following disabled:

-Lightshafts
-HBAO+ (it was using SSAO)
-Hairworks
-AA
-Sharpening

AO and sharpening could have a big impact on perceived image quality (see the sharp vs unsharp comparison posted on the other page).

I haven't seen the IGN livestream, but I'm talking about the gameplay from CDPR's recent event where they invited YouTubers to play the game. They were running on PCs at, I'm assuming, max settings. I don't think CDPR is going to lower settings down at an event focused on showing off the game in all its glory to the public through YouTubers' first impressions.

 

[Kaze2212]

As I've said multiple times in this thread, it's obvious there was a downgrade that CDPR is tiptoeing around.

However, I find it pointless to make comparisons when we don't know which variables are being controlled (and in which way).

Here's the effect of Sharpening in The Witcher 2:



Note in the sharpened pic:

-The more muted foliage colors (a big complaint about TW3's release version)
-The perceived detail "added" to textures (another complaint about TW3's assets)
-The perceived shadow detail "added" to foliage (yet another big complaint)

And then we have this comparison pic (top is old screens, middle is release version, ignore the bottom--it's the guy's attempt to match the color):



Note that, between the first two rows, we consistently lose texture and shadow detail, as well as a different tone to certain colors.

Again: it's obvious a downgrade occurred. I just think it may not be AS severe as some people (and their comparison posts) are making it out to be.

Not saying it might change much in the end, but we're still comparing the PC version to the PS4 version. Just to keep that in mind.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I haven't seen the IGN livestream, but I'm talking about the gameplay from CDPR's recent event where they invited YouTubers to play the game. They were running on PCs at, I'm assuming, max settings. I don't think CDPR is going to lower settings down at an event focused on showing off the game in all its glory to the public through YouTubers' first impressions.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. IGN's live stream had a CDPR dev sitting with them, confirming it was on Ultra. They even went through all the settings, which is why we know they weren't all be enabled.

That's all I'm saying--I hate having tons of variables involved in comparisons. I come from a video background where gear guys LOOOOVE to compare camera image and quality, so it's kinda ingrained in me at this point.

 

[kershner]

Lol at this whole thread. Ya'll have way too much time on your hands.

 

[Derp]

I wouldn't be too sure of that. IGN's live stream had a CDPR dev sitting with them, confirming it was on Ultra. They even went through all the settings, which is why we know they weren't all be enabled.

That's all I'm saying--I hate having tons of variables involved in comparisons. I come from a video background where gear guys LOOOOVE to compare camera image and quality, so it's kinda ingrained in me at this point.

Okay I'm hoping your right, because that would be good news in the sense that we will be able to improve the visuals a tiny bit more above what we've seen.

 

[tuxfool]

So HBAO/HBAO+ (still not sure if HBAO+ is real, but regardless, IGN as using SSAO) and sharpening both add shadow detail (it's artificial with Sharpening, but clearly has left an impression on a lot of customers).

The problem with sharpening is that everybody is looking at a downsampled and sharpened image, which is then downsampled again in all those gifs. It looks a lot worse in full size images.

 

[Shredderi]

Lol at this whole thread. Ya'll have way too much time on your hands.

Seems like we have something in common then.

 

[tuxfool]

Note that, between the first two rows, we consistently lose texture and shadow detail, as well as a different tone to certain colors.

Again: it's obvious a downgrade occurred. I just think it may not be AS severe as some people (and their comparison posts) are making it out to be.

At least they're comparing the same scene. But then they're comparing a PC capture with a PS4 capture. The images are not full size and have highly visible compression artifacts.

 

[Skyzard]

As I've said multiple times in this thread, it's obvious there was a downgrade that CDPR is tiptoeing around.

However, I find it pointless to make comparisons when we don't know which variables are being controlled (and in which way).

Here's the effect of Sharpening in The Witcher 2:



Note in the sharpened pic:

-The more muted foliage colors (a big complaint about TW3's release version)
-The perceived detail "added" to textures (another complaint about TW3's assets)
-The perceived shadow detail "added" to foliage (yet another big complaint)

And then we have this comparison pic (top is old screens, middle is release version, ignore the bottom--it's the guy's attempt to match the color):



Note that, between the first two rows, we consistently lose texture and shadow detail, as well as a different tone to certain colors.

Again: it's obvious a downgrade occurred. I just think it may not be AS severe as some people (and their comparison posts) are making it out to be.

Higher quality comparison pic from the op:

If you add sharpening to the bottom image, the textures pop some yes but the grass looks like shit, like you'd expect as it's really low quality plants, even if it does make it look like it has a tad more depth.

Don't forget to scroll back up to the first image.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Okay I'm hoping your right, because that would be good news in the sense that we will be able to improve the visuals a tiny bit more above what we've seen.

I mean, I could be completely wrong. Maybe all those features ARE turned on and there is a bug related to the on/off toggle switch or something--but I'm still a little hopeful.

The problem with sharpening is that everybody is looking at a downsampled and sharpened image, which is then downsampled again in all those gifs. It looks a lot worse in full size images.

Yeah, my blood pressure rises everytime the sharpened AND downsampled GIF from a high end dev PC is compared against shoddily resized PS4 compressed JPEGs.

 

[CyberPunked]

I wouldn't be too sure of that. IGN's live stream had a CDPR dev sitting with them, confirming it was on Ultra. They even went through all the settings, which is why we know they weren't all be enabled.

That's all I'm saying--I hate having tons of variables involved in comparisons. I come from a video background where gear guys LOOOOVE to compare camera image and quality, so it's kinda ingrained in me at this point.

Yeah, it's like they left them off for some reason. I'm presuming it's because the game-ready drivers have yet to be released and they didn't want to show off the game with bad performance.
From your examples, sharpening, and HBAO+ would have a major effect on the majority of complaints.

 

[stabiliser]

Okay I'm hoping your right, because that would be good news in the sense that we will be able to improve the visuals a tiny bit more above what we've seen.

Wow, just, wow. Haven't you made like a hundret posts where you said you were absolutly sure that the game is downgraded, told other people that they are stupid for not haveing your opinion and told everybody off who said that it is too early to make a judgement. And now you just turn around and go "oh, okay"?

I think what you ment to say was: "Okay, just turned out that i really do know nothing, that i jumped to conclusions and that it really is way to soon to judge the game, guess we really have to wait until the game comes out. Sorry that i wasted everybodys time and that i insulted or mislead some of you. I am going to shut up now." Don't you think that that would be a more appropriate response?

 

[-SD-]

also cd projekt employee on the downgrade https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU9rlkCOk9E.

Direct quote: "We didn't downgrade. It's impossible to downgrade a game that didn't exist before or wasn't playable before."

Then perhaps they shouldn't have shown the game so early on. They basically lied to us, got our hopes wayyy up and are now miserably failing at damage control.

 

[CryptiK]

Direct quote: "We didn't downgrade. It's impossible to downgrade a game that didn't exist before or wasn't playable before."

Then perhaps they shouldn't have shown the game so early on. They basically lied to us, got our hopes wayyy up and are now miserably failing at damage control.

So the gameplay demo wasn't actually gameplay? Riiiight, so more lies?

 

[Skyzard]

Direct quote: "We didn't downgrade. It's impossible to downgrade a game that didn't exist before or wasn't playable before."

Then perhaps they shouldn't have shown the game so early on. They basically lied to us, got our hopes wayyy up and are now miserably failing at damage control.

That was referring to the VGX trailer I think, but he later goes on to say that the gameplay footage from 2013, wasn't that good - too sharp due to the filter, didn't have PBR.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Wow, just, wow. Haven't you made like a hundret posts where you said you were absolutly sure that the game is downgraded, told other people that they are stupid for not haveing your opinion and told everybody off who said that it is too early to make a judgement. And now you just turn around and go "oh, okay"?

I think what you ment to say was: "Okay, just turned out that i really do know nothing, that i jumped to conclusions and that it really is way to soon to judge the game, guess we really have to wait until the game comes out. Sorry that i wasted everybodys time and that i insulted or mislead some of you. I am going to shut up now." Don't you think that that would be a more appropriate response?

I mean, I think the game definitely DID undergo a downgrade (or didn't hit their "target" or however they're spinning it), but I think the comparisons so far have been disingenuous and not representative of the actual gap between 2013 and 2015. I think there is a downgrade, but probably not to the scale that is scaring GAF.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

How can anyone argue there wasn't a HUGE downgrade?

 

[Anton Sugar]

How can anyone argue there wasn't a HUGE downgrade?

Because we don't have any means to make a qualitative comparison yet?

 

[Dictator93]

Coming back to this thread a day later is like walking into a bar after a wild party night.

You guys are crazy sometimes.

Spoiler

I still love you all so much

How can anyone argue there wasn't a HUGE downgrade?

Because you need better material for comparisons to see exactly what happened.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Sounds like some wishful thinking to me. False hopes and broken dreams.

 

[kinggroin]

:-D

 

[tuxfool]

Wow, just, wow. Haven't you made like a hundret posts where you said you were absolutly sure that the game is downgraded, told other people that they are stupid for not haveing your opinion and told everybody off who said that it is too early to make a judgement. And now you just turn around and go "oh, okay"?

I think what you ment to say was: "Okay, just turned out that i really do know nothing, that i jumped to conclusions and that it really is way to soon to judge the game, guess we really have to wait until the game comes out. Sorry that i wasted everybodys time and that i insulted or mislead some of you. I am going to shut up now." Don't you think that that would be a more appropriate response?

I, for one appreciate that somebody that was fire and brimstone is willing to wait for a real comparison. I don't really feel like condemning for his past mistakes.

I mean, I think the game definitely DID undergo a downgrade (or didn't hit their "target" or however they're spinning it), but I think the comparisons so far have been disingenuous and not representative of the actual gap between 2013 and 2015. I think there is a downgrade, but probably not to the scale that is scaring GAF.

This. A downgrade is certainly in the cards, but posting fallacious comparisons for everybody to come in here and get riled up over exaggerated differences in some screenshots isn't really all that helpful.

 

[Kalamari Rimbo]

Coming back to this thread a day later is like walking into a bar after a wild party night.

You guys are crazy sometimes.

Spoiler

I still love you all so much

Because you need better material for comparisons to see exactly what happened.

While it is true that making a 1:1 comparison is difficult, we can still factor this in into our consideration.

Considering the sub-optimal material it is still very evident that the game at this point doesn't have the same graphical fidelity as what was shown prior to us. Now whether CDPR deverses any 'blame' for this is another discussion but I'm tired of people denying what stands so clearly before them.

 

[ekimneems]

This sort of downgrading should be a capital crime with a mandatory minimum sentence of 2-5 years in a maximum security prison. It's fraud, really, is what it is.

You guys are going to boycott with me and definitely not buy the game, right? Who's with me!?!?

 

[viveks86]

This sort of downgrading should be a capital crime with a mandatory minimum sentence of 2-5 years in a maximum security prison. It's fraud, really, is what it is.

You guys are going to boycott with me and definitely not buy the game, right? Who's with me!?!?

*crickets*

 

[Anton Sugar]

This sort of downgrading should be a capital crime with a mandatory minimum sentence of 2-5 years in a maximum security prison. It's fraud, really, is what it is.

You guys are going to boycott with me and definitely not buy the game, right? Who's with me!?!?

 

[m_shortpants]

This sort of downgrading should be a capital crime with a mandatory minimum sentence of 2-5 years in a maximum security prison. It's fraud, really, is what it is.

You guys are going to boycott with me and definitely not buy the game, right? Who's with me!?!?

Uhhhh...I got a free code with my GPU.

 

[damien1928]

This sort of downgrading should be a capital crime with a mandatory minimum sentence of 2-5 years in a maximum security prison. It's fraud, really, is what it is.

You guys are going to boycott with me and definitely not buy the game, right? Who's with me!?!?

After the downgrade, no way I'm buying.

We have to stop this, watch dogs etc

 

[Darklor01]

Uhhhh...I got a free code with my GPU.

Yep, I have a free code. Not from my GPU, but, yeah... I'll play for sure.

 

[AU Tiger]

I'd like to point out that I know it's a different game but HBAO+ made a pretty significant difference on the visuals in AC unity

http://international.download.nvidi...cclusion-comparison-1-hbao-plus-vs-no-ao.html

http://international.download.nvidi...cclusion-comparison-3-hbao-plus-vs-no-ao.html

http://international.download.nvidi...cclusion-comparison-4-hbao-plus-vs-no-ao.html

Perhaps we'll see a similar visual quality leap with the PC version using this??

Oh, I didn't know that--you da best.

So is it safe to say that the "What If" Gaming post about tesselation being removed is BS?

We also were able to see real time tree/object/building reflections in the water surface which was also on that list of supposedly removed features.

 

[Dusktildawn48]

Has it been confirmed we can use a dedicated PhysX card for hairworks?

 

[Trace]

This sort of downgrading should be a capital crime with a mandatory minimum sentence of 2-5 years in a maximum security prison. It's fraud, really, is what it is.

You guys are going to boycott with me and definitely not buy the game, right? Who's with me!?!?

Really...

 

[jacksepticeye]

This sort of downgrading should be a capital crime with a mandatory minimum sentence of 2-5 years in a maximum security prison. It's fraud, really, is what it is.

You guys are going to boycott with me and definitely not buy the game, right? Who's with me!?!?

We should boycott McDonald's! Their damn burgers don't look like the pictures

 

[ekimneems]

See now I can't even tell what responses to my post are sarcastic and now I can't tell what's real and what isn't. I'll tell you what though, it's still more entertaining than discussing in detail what the texture of some pebbles looked like in 2013.

 

[viveks86]

Really...

I thought that was an obvious joke?

I'd like to point out that I know it's a different game but HBAO+ made a pretty significant difference on the visuals in AC unity

http://international.download.nvidi...cclusion-comparison-1-hbao-plus-vs-no-ao.html

http://international.download.nvidi...cclusion-comparison-3-hbao-plus-vs-no-ao.html

http://international.download.nvidi...cclusion-comparison-4-hbao-plus-vs-no-ao.html

Perhaps we'll see a similar visual quality leap with the PC version using this??

Yup. This is my favorite comparison. Note that the comparison is between HBAO+ and SSAO, which is what most screenshots (even official ones) are using.
http://international.download.nvidia.com/geforce-com/international/comparisons/far-cry-4/far-cry-4-ambient-occlusion-comparison-3-hbao-plus-vs-ssao.html

Notice the hand.

Has it been confirmed we can use a dedicated PhysX card for hairworks?

Hair works does not use PhysX, so no.

 

[Trace]

See now I can't even tell what responses to my post are sarcastic and now I can't tell what's real and what isn't. I'll tell you what though, it's still more entertaining than discussing in detail what the texture of some pebbles looked like in 2013.

It was a little too obvious. You need to be a little more realistic.

I thought that was an obvious joke?

I thought my response was pretty good

 

[Gbraga]

This sort of downgrading should be a capital crime with a mandatory minimum sentence of 2-5 years in a maximum security prison. It's fraud, really, is what it is.

You guys are going to boycott with me and definitely not buy the game, right? Who's with me!?!?

 

[shadowsdarknes]

The wrath of GAF towards developers is really harsh, sometimes.

I can understand when a publisher does some real anti consumer shit, but I don't really see CDPR as some sort of con artists.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I'd like to point out that I know it's a different game but HBAO+ made a pretty significant difference on the visuals in AC unity

http://international.download.nvidi...cclusion-comparison-1-hbao-plus-vs-no-ao.html

http://international.download.nvidi...cclusion-comparison-3-hbao-plus-vs-no-ao.html

http://international.download.nvidi...cclusion-comparison-4-hbao-plus-vs-no-ao.html

Perhaps we'll see a similar visual quality leap with the PC version using this??



We also were able to see real time tree/object/building reflections in the water surface which was also on that list of supposedly removed features.

Nice. Any comparisons of SSAO vs HBAO+? I think TW2 only had SSAO, so I haven't had any luck.

I did find this comparison, but it's from BF3 (oddly, the only comparisons I had luck finding were BF3, Far Cry 3, and some Ass Creed games):

There's also this kinda weird comparison from Far Cry 4 on Nvidia's site.

I guess the point is, it seems like HBAO can make a notable difference in the shadows and overall depth IQ in a scene.

EDIT: Beaten by viveks (of course!)

 

[a harpy]

This sort of downgrading should be a capital crime with a mandatory minimum sentence of 2-5 years in a maximum security prison. It's fraud, really, is what it is.

You guys are going to boycott with me and definitely not buy the game, right? Who's with me!?!?

I'm gonna pre-order it.

On Monday night.

 

[Kaze2212]

I thought that was an obvious joke?




Yup. This is my favorite comparison. Note that the comparison is between HBAO+ and SSAO, which is what most screenshots (even official ones) are using.
http://international.download.nvidia.com/geforce-com/international/comparisons/far-cry-4/far-cry-4-ambient-occlusion-comparison-3-hbao-plus-vs-ssao.html

Notice the hand.



Hair works does not use PhysX, so no.

Yeah, in the far cry 4 one you can see some more details which seem to be lost in the shot without HBAO+. So I wonder if the foliage in the withcer 3 will be affected by that.

 

[viveks86]

 

[Dusktildawn48]

I thought that was an obvious joke?




Yup. This is my favorite comparison. Note that the comparison is between HBAO+ and SSAO, which is what most screenshots (even official ones) are using.
http://international.download.nvidia.com/geforce-com/international/comparisons/far-cry-4/far-cry-4-ambient-occlusion-comparison-3-hbao-plus-vs-ssao.html

Notice the hand.



Hair works does not use PhysX, so no.

Damn seen someone mention it earlier in the thread and got my hopes up

 

[ekimneems]

This guy gets it

 

[Anton Sugar]

The cynical way of looking at this discussion would be: if HBAO/HBAO+ DID significantly improve image quality, why would CDPR leave it off in any of their demos/footage?

I guess it's possible they're having technical issues and don't want to show that, but they've also said you can max the game with 60 fps using a 980. It's kinda weird.

 

[Dargor]

...

Sorry to be quoting you my friend, I just want to ask you a question, since you're very active in this thread and you seem really tech savvy.

Do we have any definitive answer to the GTX980 runs witcher 3 on ultra?

The thread is moving so fast that I think I lost it.

 

[I H8 Memes]

They both look great but I'm personally not sure I like the old version more than the new one.

Not sure if you realized this but the bottom gif is the old version.

 

[ghibli99]

It's hard to imagine a game, even today on the best hardware, looking as good as that top image... and that was two years ago. Perhaps it was disingenuous, but IMO (and yes, opinions and all) the game is still going to be fun to play with excellent visuals.