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Koji Igarashi Kickstarts Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night (2.5D, backdash, 2018)
- Thread starter PranooY
- Start date
Are there any more details about this beta? Timing? Amount of Content? Anything? I'm going to buy the game when it comes out but I can't convince myself to go in now when the game is over a year away. If I get access to a decent beta (maybe multiple betas as things progress?) I might do it.
Pilgrimzero
Member
Beta at the $60 level is going to earn so much more money. And nice to see I can get into the beta even though I want a PS4 copy.
Edit: Nope only PC backers boo
Edit: Nope only PC backers boo
Diablohead
Member
well the content is coming from the stretch goals, they pretty much have little to no game to show which is why it's aimed for a 2017 release date.
The Lamonster
Member
I wish Nintendo would put Dawn of Sorrow on the VC...
Sword Familiar
178% of NeoGAF posters don't understand statistics
You can?
Did they change their position on that? Last time I checked, they said only PC users at the $60 pledge level will get access to the beta.
I mean, it could be very vague language, but I don't really see the point in mentioning it if it wasn't actually locked to PC customers.
EDIT: Saw your change just now; I figured that was still the case.
Diablohead
Member
Same shrine area as seen in the lower left image.
similar but not the same.
Something about this just feels wrong. I think I'm just overly cautious after how MN9 turned out -- which was another KS that started only with a single concept screenshot. Here we see the same thing again. The concept screenshots look really poor.. Almost as if it was slapped together in a hurry.
It feels to me like the need to have a Kickstarter drove this game into existence, rather than the need to have this game driving the Kickstarter into existence. And this will result in an uninspired, no quality control, Inti Creates belched up shitfest.
I love all the GBA and DS (and SOTN) Castlevania games. But I've decided this project pitch is just too much like the MN9 project pitch for me to back it.
It feels to me like the need to have a Kickstarter drove this game into existence, rather than the need to have this game driving the Kickstarter into existence. And this will result in an uninspired, no quality control, Inti Creates belched up shitfest.
I love all the GBA and DS (and SOTN) Castlevania games. But I've decided this project pitch is just too much like the MN9 project pitch for me to back it.
Theonik
Member
Kicktraq is projecting $4.1-6.5m at this point. With this data and if it ends up sitting at $5m or so by the end I wonder how much external funding he can get. My guess is quite a bit.
Charles Brandon
Member
How much does he realistically need? Surely there is a cost ceiling for what he wants to achieve?
The Lamonster
Member
but they made Shante
Pilgrimzero
Member
More money means more/better game. Though it probably means more dev time.
I have my own concerns regarding this campaign, however, I really wouldn't compare the two considering this one has a project lead who actually was very involved in the design and development of his games rather than one who served largely as a business figurehead like Inafune.
You also have to account for MN9 being targeted to a very wide audience (but mostly for children) and having numerous projects planned on the side such as a cartoon show and god knows what. It was basically a huge business venture rather than a single game developed for the fans despite what Inafune loved to claim.
Inti Creates has a solid history and so does Igarashi, so I have no doubt in my mind this campaign will lead to something truly special, however, I can't lie and say I don't have some reservations with how certain things are being handled... but that's largely based on Kickstarter fundamentals in general rather than the design.
Sword Familiar
178% of NeoGAF posters don't understand statistics
More drinks, more steaks and more massages, mostly.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
MN9 looking like garbage is pretty much entirely on inafune though.
I saw some cool designs come out of init those first few months of MN9, then we have inafune come in and go NOPE, LEMME LAME THOSE UP FOR YA.
Init have the talent to make an igavania so it's really down to iga to marshall them properly. Here's hoping
Holy Order Sol
Member
lol @ posting that enemy pic over and over like it's cancer or something
No they didn't. They worked on the portrait/scene art for Pirate's Curse and are working on backgrounds and such for HGH. The game development is all Wayforward.
They did make Gunvolt though, and that was pretty decent.
The Lamonster
Member
oh doy, I knew that.
BoosterDuck
Banned
More money means Iga will eat curry to gain strength for making a better game.
Theonik
Member
Depends on how much the people making it are paid, how many people they hire in the end, development time accounting for delays to add the extra content, but it's not really about need in the end. KS is used as an advance pre-order system, so they basically get 1/3rd of their sales in advance at a higher average revenue per copy (based on previous KS)
Iga is promising you more content in exchange for you paying for his dream to buy a real castle to pretend to be Dracula in!
This man gets it.
Dangerblade
Member
Game Sack supremacy.
Vallen Valiant
Banned
Every extra backer is actually one less sale when the game ships. So KS in this case is the game studio taking out a loan with their future customers to get the game made. Even if hundreds of thousands of people back the game, IGA wouldn't necessarily be any richer once the game ships. The more backers, the less number of copies of games that would be sold at full price later.
In this case, it will have come from breaking a brick wall.
Sword Familiar
178% of NeoGAF posters don't understand statistics
Wall curry is bes curry.
I said same area. Not same screenshot
Curry's so good not even the Yeti can stay away
Jacksinthe
Banned
This KS hits all the right notes:
Nostalgia
Not enough funding even if goal met
Every stretch goal is an arbitrary and unrealistic number plastered for the sake of plastering
Pitch is all too familiar
Project lead is a developer from a previous known series
Slapped together
Etc
All the makings of a perfect storm to suck the life out of KS and burst that bubble so the honest, no bullshit developer with an actual real fucking budget in full that is reasonable and needs a leg up never sees the light of day.
KS is great, but campaigns like this completely abuse its purpose.
ShogunDarius
Member
2.4 has been reached not sure exactly when though, going by a comment on the kickstarter it was 29 minutes ago
You know that the point of the KS wasn't to FUND the game, right? It was to show publishers how much INTEREST there was. Raising $500,000 was enough to get Iga's interested party to fund the REST of the required $5mil to make the game.
Vallen Valiant
Banned
KS is doing exactly what it is suppose to do, kickstarting a project. It might not be doing it the intended fashion, but indirectly it is causing a game to be made that would not be possible otherwise. It is 100% true this is only used to get funding from the real backer, and also that the whole thing remaining is now just a promotion/marketing for the game, but I don't see anything wrong with that.
I would say that this kind of proves his point actually. KS in it's inception was supposed to let the community decide if they want to back a project that needs the funding to move forward. That's the point of having a "goal", the idea being that if you don't make your goal (and therefore don't have enough money to begin) then nobody gets charged and we move on to the next idea that the community deems interesting enough to back.
This is using KS support as some kind of barometer for interest, instead of actually needing it for the funding. IIRC Yooka-Laylee is doing something similar; they also have funding in their back pocket already. Hence the "abusing [Kickerstarter's] purpose". Not technically against the rules since they can say the money is for whatever they damn well please (including as a barometer of interest), but IMO it kind of goes against the spirit of crowd funding.
Though that's not to say I won't play the shit out of both of these games if and when they release. It's just this combined with the full on social media marketing/achievement push kind of feel gross to me, tbh.
1) Let's face it, almost all video game Kickstarters feed on the nostalgia factor for obvious reasons.
2) False on all accounts. Igarashi already has all the funding he needs to create the game; this Kickstarter, as mentioned before, was simply to prove to his investor(s) that the interest was there all the while covering the physical release and marketing + any stretch goals met.
3) While some stretch goals are fine, I can agree others have a very unrealistic number attached to them. As a whole, this is a Kickstarter issue rather than a specific problem; campaigners are essentially forced to throw them in or sacrifice additional funding past the goal amount.
4) Of course the pitches are similar... there's only so many ways you can advertise a campaign without sounding ridiculous in your intent. This game won't light the world on fire or reinvent the industry.
5) So? I actually prefer a proven record than rely on good faith alone.
6) This is the only other good point you've made; they could have definitely presented more, however, they gave their reasoning as to why no gameplay has been shown besides some few pieces of concept art.
All in all, I much prefer this sort of campaign instead of the many others which play on the things you mentioned but end up over-promising and never actually delivering on them let alone an actual product.
Holy Order Sol
Member
fuck "spirit" as long as shit works
Vallen Valiant
Banned
Or "throwing money at the screen", as it were.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
I'm not sure if I'll be able to finish Ecclesia. The game is lagging too much for me.
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
At this point, I think that the only reason this thread is 100 pages long is thanks to everyone who's not backing but feels compelled to come shit on the thread every other day with MN9 comparisons and how bad this game is going to be. It's like we need a daily reminder or something.
Not to start an argument for the sake of an argument, but how is what this campaign is doing any different from what you said above in bold? For all intents and purposes, if this campaign didn't meet it's goal, Igarashi's investor(s) would have pulled out and left him with absolutely nothing.
I mean, it's certainly different from your usual indie developer presenting a project without a single penny to their name (promised or not), but it's not all that different in the grand scheme of things. So like any other campaign, this one needs the crowd sourced funds otherwise they produce nothing thus fitting the criteria you and AbsintheGames claims to be abused.
Heck, I'm actually glad Igarashi and his team were very up front with their situation instead of gathering funds first then announcing their investment plan and what-have-you after the fact like some other campaigns. If you don't like it, you simply don't have to provide your support like any other campaign.
I've had my issues with how certain things have been handled with this specific campaign and even pulled my funding as a result of it, however, I cannot say they're abusing Kickstarter or gathering funds for malicious reasons. I'm actually torn now on whether or not I should re-pledge due to the many improvements they've made over the past week.
Jacksinthe
Banned
Nice edit - I am paying attention. Perhaps it is you that needs to realize nobody is backing a game here, they are only backing the PROMISE of another party to kick up the rest after we are done. That can still go south after a "successful" KS campaign. Savvy?
1) Yep
2) Will answer below
3) At the very least keep them truthful - 750k just for cheat codes, speed run mode and boss rush? Yeah. Totally legit.
4) The point is how ridiculous it is
5) Ideas are great, showing your product is better
We have already had this discussion on GAF a while back on Publisher-bound Kickstarters and it's generally frowned upon.
KS rules state that "When a project is successfully funded, the creator is responsible for completing the project and fulfilling each reward." (https://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter+basics?ref=footer)
Now, let's say that ONLY the 500k goal was met. Where is the guarantee that the publisher will pull through on the rest of the project? What if they decide to back down last minute even after a successful funding? What then?
Here's what would happen:
Failure: This is bullshit! This is an abuse of Kickstarter! Using it as a gauge for interest and not an actual product!
Success: This is awesome! Nothing wrong here! Totally not an abuse! (Which would set another precedent and extremely slippery slope of KS funding for future PUBLISHERS, not devs who need it).
See where this is going? These waters, right here on this KS and others, are far too muddy.
Now what happens with the stretch goal money? At what point does an artist, a developer, cut from their product, their vision, just to stamp it as a stretch goal? Surely the publisher KNOWS how much the game will cost and has the money to fund it, themselves, but now they are taking even less of a risk and placing that risk solely on the backs of gamers. That is an awful way to do business and will backfire, eventually.
The bubble will burst, eventually. You don't even need projects to fail. Eventually everyone will realize sooner or later they are being taken for a ride and call it quits - leaving real projects in the dust because "Holy shit it's that guy and a publisher that already has funds for the game!"
Slippery slope and the wrong precedent is being set. Eventually it will be abused into oblivion.
I didn't want to be too antagonistic. I pulled another edit much sooner that I don't think anyone caught.
Anyways, yeah but the world could blow up tomorrow. Might as well not do anything at all because THAT could happen and thus all other things are rendered moot.
Basically, never care about anything because cynicism. (right?)
Backing a concept, and not just a project, is the root of kickstarter. Well before it started being used for videogames. That's what the service is ABOUT. Back ideas on good faith.
I see your points, but what I don't understand is how this is only a problem for this campaign and the others much like it. Sure, their investment backers could just drop their support after successful funding but that's just terrible business and would surely cost them more in the long run then to simply keep their word and earn money as a result.
Let's try out this scenario which is growing all too common on Kickstarter for size: I'm an indie developer with no investor in my pocket. I promise a product and get tons of funding. What do I do? Well, I keep delaying my project citing creativity and budget issues to the point where it's delayed to oblivion or never actually comes out at all.
You'd think I'd be punished right? Well wrong, Kickster's regulations allows me to get away scott-free with any issues that may come about after the funding process simply due to the nature behind crowd-sourced funding.
So yes, I agree there's issues to be had with campaigns, however, it's not something that's exclusive to campaigns with a back-pocket investor. There's tons of other campaigns that are outright scams, silly in nature, or simply beyond their scope that recieve all the funding they need and produce nothing as a result.
Basically said, what you're basing your argument on is a fundamental issue with Kickstarter and not a specific campaign.
ShogunDarius
Member
another 24 hour update clocked in at $2,407,785 at 22:15 today meaning past 24 hours $67,231 was pledged, over the past 72 hours $267,467 was pledged.
Red Arremer
Member
For the record, I kept the conversation with the representative of Fangamer open and clarified for sure that if you order the physical PC version, you will get a Steam code for redemption at digital release, even if you did not pick the digital 60$ tier. You just won't get the digital extras (soundtrack, books, whatever).
If you pick the XBox or PS versions, you will have to wait for the physical copies to arrive.
If you pick the XBox or PS versions, you will have to wait for the physical copies to arrive.