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Fighting Games Weekly | June 15-21 | 16 is barely okay

M

MiniBossBattle

Member
tod5ZZC.jpg


Kanye and I are not fans of anime.
anigif_enhanced-buzz-32291-1378393985-11.gif
 
R

RockTurtle

Member
BadWolf said:
How so?

His normals seemed great, lots of ways to grab people and deal with projectiles, great combos and damage with quick and safe hit confirms, power up and armor moves, psuedo projectiles like that beverage can, banana etc.

Easily seemed like one of the better characters so far.



Don't think any of his moves would fit Ryu >_>
Click to expand...

Well, Oro should have taught Ryu SOME moves.

I would forever main RYU if he got ORO's command grab
 
J

jerry1594

Member
Coffeeling said:
If you look at things VSav characters have, pretty much everyone has something completely silly like that.
Buttons with ridiculous frame advantages (Felicia can OS throw with a button that's +11 on block and catches jump outs for example, and she's isn't even top tier), BB Hood has an aerial mid that freezes your block so you may have to block low while she's in the air (high-mid(freeze)-low you can't block or normal high/high air string), there are hits in things that are randomly unblockable (Zabel's meaty j.lk is certainly the most useful one but not the only one), and so on. It's a really dirty game.
Click to expand...
Zabel is the dirtiest though. Plus I was mad cause I was watching a Chun player and it was disgusting. lol
 
hitsugi

hitsugi

Member
I like Cammy's v-trigger a lot, actually. Yeah, the specials take up a good bit of bar but they hit hard as hell and provide additional mix ups. Still, her and Ryu feel relatively boring so far.
 
M

MiniBossBattle

Member
hitsugi said:
I like Cammy's v-trigger a lot, actually. Yeah, the specials take up a good bit of bar but they hit hard as hell and provide additional mix ups. Still, her and Ryu feel relatively boring so far.
Click to expand...

I like the hooligan shenanigans and sounds like a lot of the V trigger specials combo into each other or lead to more mixups.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
ThatCrazyGuy said:
Options are cool for both to me. I would never want it just 2 buttons though. That's tough with a 6 button game on a pad for me. I have trouble using the L shoulder buttons, so even binding it would suck. With stick I can handle both ways.
Click to expand...
Yay!

Kimosabae said:
I don't mind two button dashes in SF because I like that small burden of execution playing a role in footsies (assuming the SF game has good dashes like SF3 or Alpha). Being able to perform dashes off the cuff at any moment kinda diminishes the skill involved in that aspect of the game. It's fine in a game like Marvel since there's so many different ways to separate yourself from the next player, skill-wise, but in a game like SF, KOF or GG (Runs in the latter cases), I prefer the double input, since those games tend to be (slightly) slower paced. A 3-frame buffer similar to Xrd's I find perfect.
Click to expand...
Why not just let them be faster paced, and develop around that?

Essay said:
My main pet peeve with button dashing: When the input overlaps with defensive techniques and other things, producing ugly/"inexplicable" dashes in real matches.

For example, if dashing was to be tied to Punches in SFV, an Alpha Counter (f+PPP) input late would produce a dash.

In Guilty Gear at least, there are scenarios where the attacker will use a low-blockstun move and time a late frame-trap off of it, expecting the opponent to fail the instant-Alpha Counter in that window and get a normal's startup instead. If this approach was to produce a Street Fighter dash instead, the attacker wouldn't even have to frame trap, but rather could just confirm the whiffed dash and punish with their max-damage opener.

What would that add to the game, other than a lazy opportunity for a max-damage punish, a saltier defender, and questions from newer viewers who can't wrap their heads around why the second player would just "randomly" dash forward in pressure?

Button dashing fits fine in Marvel, imo. Wave-dashing and plink dashing is it's own thing, and stuff like OS'ing throws with movement makes sense in a game that hectic. It's a feature. I take a bit more of an issue with it in Skullgirls, where it was only included as an execution aid and for the (one?) character that plink-dashes as a Marvel homage, but at least backdashes from failed push blocks usually only get punished hard in the corner. In Street Fighter, with how much of a commitment dashes are, the idea of more accidental dashes makes me shudder.

That said, I'm really good with a stick and take a lot of pleasure out of high-stick motion games, so I'm biased. (I even do all my airdashes using stick motions with Ms. Fortune in SG.)
Click to expand...
Two button dash is a trap in Marvel, too, since dashing and pushblocking have the same input in that game. It has never been a problem that you can fool someone into dashing and punish them as a result. In SFV, back dashes aren't invincible, either, so it doesn't seem like people will be dashing out at close range, regardless. Why no let people eat the frame trap?

Throw option selects are easy to get rid of. Just give throws highest priority. If ou dash/throw OS, you always throw.
 
C

Clawww

Member
BadWolf said:
Ryu definitely needs something more, he feels underdeveloped compared to the others.
Click to expand...

no one is using parry and people don't know the proper timings for his charged hados. there were a lot of denjin whiffs on enemy wake-up for instance. proper use of those two alone would make his neutral/mindgames way more powerful.
 
O

Onemic

Member
Pizarro said:
_dementia. Glad youre ok man

I'm pretty sure sbo was a complete yun/chun/ken fest then. The game has changed a lot and a couple weak characters have improved matchups, but now it's Chun>Ken>Yun at the top and it looks like it's not gonna budge anymore :(
Click to expand...

Goes to show how unbalanced games of that time were that 3S was considered balanced in comparison. Jojos, CvS2, Marvel 2....
 
B

BadWolf

Member
Clawww said:
no one is using parry and people don't know the proper timings for his charged hados. there were a lot of denjin whiffs on enemy wake-up for instance. proper use of those two alone would make his neutral/mindgames way more powerful.
Click to expand...

Parry is gimped though atm.

- Can't cancel into anything other than another parry
- Doesn't instantly recover but rather has an animation that Ryu must complete, James Chen said that when they were testing it and he parried a jab, the other character recovered faster than Ryu and had attack advantage.

And it's punishable on whiff so hardly seems worth the risk.

They should at least let him cancel it into special moves like with Just Defend.
 
A

alstein

Member
BadWolf said:
Parry is gimped though atm.

- Can't cancel into anything other than another parry
- Doesn't instantly recover but rather has an animation that Ryu must complete, James Chen said that when they were testing it and he parried a jab, the other character recovered faster than Ryu and had attack advantage.

And it's punishable on whiff so hardly seems worth the risk.

They should at least let him cancel it into special moves like with Just Defend.
Click to expand...

I see a use for it right now. countering meaty high/low mixups, or high/low strike mixups at heavy disadvantage.

Also it would allow him to avoid chip kills from a super. So the move may be crap, but it will have uses.
 
G

GeoNeo

I disagree.
Karsticles said:
Two button dash is a trap in Marvel, too, since dashing and pushblocking have the same input in that game. It has never been a problem that you can fool someone into dashing and punish them as a result. In SFV, back dashes aren't invincible, either, so it doesn't seem like people will be dashing out at close range, regardless. Why no let people eat the frame trap?

Throw option selects are easy to get rid of. Just give throws highest priority. If ou dash/throw OS, you always throw.
Click to expand...

I've been thinking about it Kars.

What about say a new character (MMA fighter) where in V-Trigger his or her control scheme changes from traditional SF too where they can only use the top row of punch buttons but bottom half turns from normals to movement options.

Short = goes from a light kick normal to back dash

strong = goes from medium kick normal to take down stance

roundhouse = goes from hard kick normal to forward dash

Tapping the movement option turns into a "plink" dash, however it drains your V-Trigger bar faster if you decide to use it

Take down stance + LP = Shoot takedown Only works to counter opponents that are pressing normals

Take down stance + MP = Double leg takedown Only works to counter opponents that are blocking (If they press a button and you easily get stuffed out of this)

Take down stance + HP = Ground to Air take down. (AA take down)

In this V-Trigger you lose the option to jump you are completely ground based rush down beast.

Once you take your opponent to the ground you can input special attacks to perform different ground based cmd grabs for massive damage.

(They can't forward or back dash with the stick in V-Trigger only walk back and forward.)
 
K

Karsticles

Member
GeoNeo said:
I've been thinking about it Kars.

What about say a new character (MMA fighter) where in V-Trigger his or her control scheme changes from traditional SF too where they can only use the top row of punch buttons but bottom half turns from normals to movement options.

Short = goes from a light kick normal to back dash

strong = goes from medium kick normal to take down stance

roundhouse = goes from hard kick normal to forward dash

Tapping the movement option turns into a plink dash, however it drains your V-Trigger bar faster if you decide to use it

Take down stance + LP = Shoot takedown Only works to counter opponents that are pressing normals

Take down stance + MP = Double leg takedown Only works to counter opponents that are blocking (If they press a button and you easily get stuffed out of this)

Take down stance + HP = Ground to Air take down. (AA take down)

In this V-Trigger you lose the option to jump you are completely ground based rush down beast.

Once you take your opponent to the ground you can input special attacks to perform different ground based cmd grabs for massive damage.

(They can't forward or back dash with the stick in V-Trigger only walk back and forward.)
Click to expand...
Kind of reminds me of El Fuerte movement. ;)

I dont think you can ever remove jump as an option, or else you will struggle against fireballs.

Removing half of a moveset seems very dangerous. That is a lot of lost options, and I feel like the character would be difficult to balance through such a radical design shift.

Why not just give him crazy movement options without changing the moveset? Two buttons + forward, down, or back.
 
P

petghost

Banned
I def don't think cammy needs a great v trigger. She has all kinds of fucking tools anyhow. Like she is the only char i seen link from lights into a heavier button. Not all chars need to use the systems equally.
 
G

GeoNeo

I disagree.
Karsticles said:
Kind of reminds me of El Fuerte movement. ;)

I dont think you can ever remove jump as an option, or else you will struggle against fireballs.

Removing half of a moveset seems very dangerous. That is a lot of lost options, and I feel like the character would be difficult to balance through such a radical design shift.

Why not just give him crazy movement options without changing the moveset? Two buttons + forward, down, or back.
Click to expand...

First "Plink" dash would allow you to go through FB. PogChamp

It would be a HUGE shift to the way a "grappler" fighter plays so would require a lot of testing and balancing.

Their V-Trigger would reward smart *FAST* ground movement and proper reads, however you'd have to manage your V-Trigger super carefully or you'd drain it all in 5 plink dashes (this amount would need to be balanced of course)

You want this grappler to strike fear into the other players heart, however not feel uber random.

Why I want it this way is because I truly want it to be a brand new experience that you've never felt a fighter has had before.

Like I said this would require a lot of balancing but seeing this in action for rewarding someone that can use this V-Trigger smartly would be hype as fuck. Removing Jump would be like big WTF to people but if you can balance this correctly it would not matter thanks to ground to air take down.
 
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