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Sailor Moon Community Thread: She Blinded Me With Science!

MikeMyers

Member
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CorvoSol

Member
Sailor Moon S-- Series Thoughts.

I'm not going to pull my punches here.

I kind of hate it. I mean, it's weird because if you ask me about the good things, I have a lot of things I can name for you. There's a lot about Sailor Moon S I really did like. But if you ask me my overall opinion of it? Easily the worst season of Sailor Moon I've watched. Just an absolute trainwreck.

Lemme dump the bad out for you, so that I can end on the good.

The chief of S's sins, as I've touched on in previous complaints, is that the series is such a disorganized mess. Now, I'm no stranger to loving things that are messy. ZZ Gundam is probably my favorite UC series and Lord knows that show is a wreck for no small part of its time. So please don't think I'm saying you're bad if you disagree with me.

But still! Classic starts out as a Monster of the Week series that slowly builds Moon's mythology and introduces her companions. Usagi's naivety and the haste with which she accepted Luna's proposal are explored with a surprising amount of subtlety. Her dying wish in Classic's finale sets forth all the elements series like Madoka would need to sort of build their own tapestry. It could be slow at times, but it followed a fairly straightforward buildup to a singular ending: the showdown between the Scouts and Beryl and Metallia.

R adopted a singular theme--Romance--and built on it in two distinct arcs. These arcs were centered on cohesive elements: the desperate children of the Doom Tree and the invasion of the Black/Dark Moon clan from the edge of the solar system/future. In R's finale, I suppose, I should have seen the expansion of concepts which would ultimately spell the problems I had with S, but it was easy to ignore them, because R's story was mostly about love. About Eiru and An learning to love each other, about Usagi winning back Mamoru's (admittedly because Future Mamoru is a dick) and, perhaps most importantly, about Usagi's coming to love the baby she'd never really planned on having.

Each of these arcs centered on Usagi's growth as a person, and each one saw her successive rise to what R foretold as her ultimate destiny. She became more of a leader, more competent as a soldier, more compassionate as a person and more intelligent and capable under pressure. In a way, I feel that R's finale was the culmination of Usagi's struggles, and the climax of her arc.

Which, I suppose, is why she sort of gets the shaft through S. I'll touch on that in a moment, though. For the most part, what bothered me about S is the vast array of elements in its story. We suddenly have three new Sailor Soldiers, never before mentioned in any aspect of the series' mythology (as opposed to R, which introduced one and promptly explained her absence by means of exile). These soldiers are said to exist for the express purpose of defending the Solar System from Extra Solar enemies. However, during R's finale, when the city of Tokyo was besieged by enemies from beyond the Solar System, they're nowhere to be found.

Instead, a mad scientist who, by all indication is attempting to bring about the resurrection of Sailor Saturn, a threat from within the Solar System, is what kicks them into action. And they fight ferociously to find a Messiah who inevitably turns out to be Sailor Moon. What makes this unbearable isn't that Goku is ultimately the Legendary Super Saiyan, nor that Vegeta is so damn insistent he's not, but instead that Pluto fucking knows what Sailor Moon is capable of and yet doesn't back her up to Uranus and Neptune.

So we have two new sailor scouts allegedly fighting an evil messiah who is also a sailor scout under the pretense of fighting an enemy from beyond the solar system and also the presence of the Holy Grail and magic talismans at the same time we have reincarnation and time traveling grade schoolers. And although all of that marginally pans out, it's still fucking busy. And despite the sheer amount of ground it has to cover, I felt that the series was woefully paced. Now, mind you I'm no stranger to slow pacing. Getter Robo and Great Mazinger are great shows that will trudge you through 90 episodes of Monster of the Week. What gets me is that in R we had a season that wasn't Monster of the Week.

R's episodes couldn't be skipped because every episode advanced the plot in some important way. S, on the other hand, feels like it's spinning its wheels early on. It's a simple vignette of Haruka and Michiru being everywhere the scouts go as Daimon are defeated for some time before a dramatic shift in personality occurs and Uranus becomes more antagonistic to Sailor Moon than literally any other villain to date.

The series, to my best understanding, breaks roughly into three arcs: the first is this wheel spinning before we're told what the Talismans are, the second is the Grail Hunt, and the third is the climax, the Saturn arc, if you will. Although you can sort of see a flow through the arcs after the fact, down in the trenches it's damn near impossible to tell from one episode to the next if anything in the next episode will matter and where it will take the series. I don't mean that in the sense that things can surprise you, either. Things simply seem to occur for no real reason. Likewise this stilted pacing can be seen in the flow of the villains. Kaorinite and Eudial are given far, far more screen time than the final two members of The Witches Five.

But let's shift gears here to what is perhaps my major complaint regarding S: a work is often only as good as its characters, and Sailor Moon is only ever as good as its titular character. It's no surprise, then, that I hated S, since Usagi is shunted to the side in favor of two excessively awful characters.

I'm going to make a controversial statement here, and I beg forgiveness for when I'm wrong, but I cannot help but wonder how much of the popularity of Uranus and Neptune isn't simply owed to their being cartoon lesbians. Because aside from that single, extremely watered down characteristic, there's nothing original about either of these shit stains. Haruka is a trumped up cross between Jupiter and Tuxedo Mask and Neptune is a cardboring copy of Ami. They have the same bland rose tossing gimmick, the ambiguous allegiance, and the tendency to show up in some dashing manner only to do nothing and then vanish into thin air. Ikuhara, evidently aware of how fucking empty these characters are is left to throwing confetti every time they appear on screen in a hopeless attempt to dissuade you from remembering they're awful, poorly written harpies with no rhyme nor reason to their hilariously misguided crusade and equally terrible dialogue.

But I digress. Sailor Moon S could have worked just fine if the two of them had served to form a criticism of Usagi's character, if their nattering caterwauls had been granted an ounce of validity and Usagi's now-established role had been criticized in any meaningful way, but the fact of the matter is that Usagi is completely and totally right every step of the way and instead of posing meaningful criticisms and questions about her, Uranus does little more than shout about how she's not her real dad or something. What's even more annoying is that, even if Uranus and Neptune had managed to do the above, it still wouldn't have freed them from their redundancy trap since Rei and Luna have served to bring Usagi into check since the very first season.

I can't really stress how negatively Uranus alone effected my view of this series, and the reason why is because she was inescapable. Everywhere Usagi went there she was. Every battle. Every day trip. Every climax. Every investigation. Fuck, she was even around when Usagi was on dates. And despite all of this, Uranus is a shamefully undeveloped character. We know next to nothing about what she wants besides "to be the wind" we know precious little about where she comes from besides a single flashback to when she and Neptune met (extremely recently), and we have no real insight onto where she was when Usagi saved the world the last three times. If it wasn't for her stock "I'm good at Jupiter stuff AND Venus stuff" she wouldn't even have talents to call her own.

And Neptune isn't a character at all. For all that Uranus isn't developed, at least she has a function and opinions. Neptune, bar a solitary episode with Ami, voices no thoughts of her own, makes no decisions of her own, and has no isolated actions apart from Uranus after the Holy Grail is found. She's simply arm candy for third rate Chinese knock off lesbian Tuxedo Mask.

I mean, at least Pluto has an ongoing interest in protecting Chibiusa, but what do Neptune and Uranus really do during the day when they're not plotting to kill defenseless little girls and throwing darts at a poster of Usagi?

Anyway, I think I've made abundantly clear what I hated about S at this point, so give me a few more minutes of your time to talk about what I liked about it.

First and foremost I loved the Death Busters. Everything from the comical yet effective Professor Tomoe to his six lovely Witches worked. They had such a visual charisma that it seemed to imbue them with far more life than any villains prior to them. The Crane arc was especially good for their hijinks. Above all Kaorinite and Mimet shone as villainesses who could be surprisingly competent whilst also garnering a laugh. The idea of an evil or at least dangerous Sailor Soldier also suckered me in, since I've been a hopeless lover of the concept ever since reading the Dark Phoenix Saga as a kid.

I was found, also, of the friendship between Chibiusa and Hotaru Tomoe. I thought that, once again, despite every reason presenting itself to hate Chibiusa and her storyline, it was surprisingly well written and unexpectedly endearing. Seeing Usagi bond even moreso with her, to the point that Usagi's decision to send her home hurt more than anybody else's, really drove home how close the two had become.

And, much as I hated them, early on Haruka and Michiru actually seemed to serve a decent point out of costume in developing the Sailor Scouts. Moments like when Minako asked Haruka about what she thought about boyfriends were decent enough, for instance. I also liked that Mamoru seemed to take a more active role in assisting Usagi and her friends. I was especially impressed when Neptune, Pluto, and Uranus came to him for assistance and he more or less rejected them immediately in favor of Usagi and company.

So I don't know if I'd say S was bad so much as I didn't like it. I've talked enough with other people to realize this is kind of unpopular, and I offer the following as a half apology, half explanation: When you come to love a genre you come to see its characteristics, its faults and its worthies, in a specialized framework. This framework provides you with context that helps you to respond one way or another to future works. It has its benefits and its own failings.

For instance, I love giant robot shows, and I've watched a LOT of them in the past three or four years. And doing so lets me sit through 50 episodes of monsters of the week, categorize them, analyze the categories and think about what was being said in them. In this way I find myself spending hours rattling on about what Tomino really means with his army of battered and abused super women.

But if you haven't sat through Lalah, Four, Haman and Puru, you might look at Marida or Katejina and wonder just what the fuck is the deal with the sociopath woman on screen.

In a similar manner, because I haven't sat through a lot of Magical Girl shows (to be honest Sailor Moon is probably my first major exposure to the genre), things stand out to me that are probably completely normal, or I take exception to stuff that the writer never once expected anyone to. In Utena, for example, I didn't really get that Princes and Princesses were a big thing in past Shojo anime, and so it took me a long time to really wrap my brain around that.

So at the same time, while Haruka and Michiru might be examples of something more meaningful or more important than Lesbian Miniskirt Vegeta within the context of Magical Girl shows, to me, the uninitiated, they kinda just stand out as WiXoss characters who snuck into a series too good for them.

In any case, this more or less concludes my thoughts on S. I'm probably going to take a break before starting Super S. I hope this post isn't as confrontational as it is in my head, and stand ready and welcome to counterpoints, discussion, and commentary on it.
 

MikeMyers

Member
Yeah, S felt like a step down for me because of not only shafting Usagi, but resetting all of her character development from R. That was my biggest gripe.

I think a lot of fans don't care much for the titular character (alongside Mamoru/Chibiusa too), and that is why they struggle with the manga, and inherently Crystal as a result.
 

Cheerilee

Member
Sailor Moon S-- Series Thoughts.

That was a great read, thanks.

My view on S was colored because I watched Classic and R dubbed on TV, and then Sailor Moon was taken away from me by the harsh realities of business. Sailor Moon S was the first series I watched in fansub form (which at-the-time meant connecting with another fan and getting VHS tapes sent in the mail, which felt really special), and I was enjoying the Japanese music and voice acting (I liked the English music and voice acting too). So I was too distracted by presentation to read very deeply into things.

But even still, I never really liked Uranus and Neptune. They're just... assholes. I didn't buy for one minute that we never saw them before because they had important business to do elsewhere, we just never saw them because they were assholes. When the Inner Senshi were fighting for their very lives and the fate of the world/universe, Uranus and Neptune said "Not my problem" and quietly hung their comrades out to dry while they sipped some latte. Ready and willing to actively kill one of their own "Because reasons." When Uranus and Neptune ran into trouble, they came crying to the Inner Senshi for help. It seemed unfair that they somehow had more power than the Inner Senshi, because the Inners earned their power through hard-fought battle, and I never got the sense that Uranus and Neptune had ever actually fought any real battles. They were simply "gifted" with unrealistic ability to try and make them look cool, since they joined the Sailor club two years late.

I do think Haruka and Michiru got a popularity spike from being lesbians. There's a significant chunk of the fandom that clearly gives them bonus points for that. And H&M are a package deal. That works in their favor too. It's easier to accept that the pair of them have value than it is to try and accept one of them on their own.

Sailor Pluto goes down a peg IMO when she hangs out with Uranus and Neptune. She's a loner and I don't get why she's there. She doesn't fit Uranus and Neptune's dynamic. Uranus and Neptune have a very strong team dynamic by themselves, and Pluto is just a third wheel. She's just there because Team UraNep bribed her support because they wanted to be taken seriously as a team that could compete with Team Moon.

Sailor Saturn, on the other hand, is great. I liked her right away. I'd say "best character since the Inner 5", but she's debatably better than some or all of the Inner 5 (depending on my mood), so she's just great. Although it goes without saying that she has no chemistry with Team UraNep, and she's only on the team so Uranus and Neptune can score that "team kill" achievement.
 
900 years old, still in middle school first grade.

When 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not.

Or something like that. Chibusa is such an old hag.
 

Zoe

Member
I was going to add a disclaimer since I figured it was probably wrong...but then I erased it. I never really knew what grade she was in. I also don't know how the Japanese school system works.
Well part of the problem is the most popular scanlation inexplicably got that wrong more than once.
 

MikeMyers

Member
Yeah, Stars is basically S redux in the anime. He might like SuperS given that the Outers were one of his main frustrations of S.

I kinda wonder if Sailor Stars was Toei's attempt to reboot the series given the ratings were declining with SuperS, and Stars ended up Dreamcasting itself to a premature ending? I could be wrong, but I think the anime actually ended before the manga did.
 
Yeah, Stars is basically S redux in the anime. He might like SuperS given that the Outers were one of his main frustrations of S.

I kinda wonder if Sailor Stars was Toei's attempt to reboot the series given the ratings were declining with SuperS, and Stars ended up Dreamcasting itself to a premature ending? I could be wrong, but I think the anime actually ended before the manga did.

I actually enjoy SuperS a lot. It's definitely the most "slice of life" of all the seasons, but that's what I loved most about Sailor Moon. It's a return to focus on the main five girls and Chibiusa.

Sailor Stars is trash. They did try to re-invigorate the series but completely missed the mark by focusing on characters that NO ONE was interested in (the starlights), completely abandoning the inner and outer senshi in favor of the starlights, and giving Sailor Moon that ugly Eternal Fuku.

Like...the finale of the freaking series is so unsatisfying.
 

Conan-san

Member
Hell, the Super S Final arc is a better ending than the actual one.If you edit out Galaixia going "Huzza! I've buggered everyone somehow by doing that! I am become Malo Myotismon" you can go just walk away knowing in your heart that everything is Alpha-Numeric.

I...I have Reboot, ITV and stuff they half aired (Sailor Moon and Digimon being two such things) on the brain.
 

MikeMyers

Member
I eagerly await it.

Also, for cj_iwakura, I'm getting that Saturn this month. Comes with Nights into Dreams (and 3D Controller), Sonic 3D Blast, and Virtua Fighter 2. All games I already own for other systems lol.

Maybe I should name it Hotaru Tomoe.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
I eagerly await it.

Also, for cj_iwakura, I'm getting that Saturn this month. Comes with Nights into Dreams (and 3D Controller), Sonic 3D Blast, and Virtua Fighter 2. All games I already own for other systems lol.

Maybe I should name it Hotaru Tomoe.

I name every car after a Senshi. I'm up to Rei.
 

MikeMyers

Member
Given how expensive Saturn games are, I'd probably only get enough games to be named after a Senshi.

Gonna look for Shinobi Legions and Panzer Dragoon. Would try to get Shining Force III, but I heard its expensive.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Given how expensive Saturn games are, I'd probably only get enough games to be named after a Senshi.

Gonna look for Shinobi Legions and Panzer Dragoon. Would try to get Shining Force III, but I heard its expensive.

Every great Saturn game is now. I have a disc only copy that a friend gave me. Good? Yes. Worth that price? Nope.
 

CorvoSol

Member
I've never really joined a fandom until I've posted a wild theory for it, so here we go:

What if Steven Universe's Crystal Gems are Sailor Moon villains?

I mean, think about it: every Sailor Moon villain has a gemstone name (well, most of them, anyway, up to where I'm at in the series). The Gems, be they the Crystal Gems or the Homeworld ones, share this trait. Most such villains are extraterrestrial in nature, and have extraordinary longevity to boot. Likewise they're all possessed of incredible magical powers. They further don't have all that much of a grasp on human emotions.

Now, there are a few points against, for instance, the Dark Kingdom's generals are all men, and everything we've seen of the Gems so far indicates that they're either an extremely predominately or exclusively feminine species. That said, they do share a matriarchal order as a result. Likewise, Gems have, well, gems, embedded in their bodies which form their cores, while none of the Sailor Moon enemies really seem to display this trait.

On the other hand, Steven exists as a hybrid gem-human, rendering the male gender entirely possible (and I mean, it's not like Beryl and the Dark Kingdom would be above experiments on Endymion's people to create such creatures for her generals); the vast majority of Youma/Droids/Cardians/Daimon have all taken female form, but tend to be based upon objects of a certain kind. Furthermore, although they don't seem to have gems embedded in them, crystals are a source of major power in Sailor Moon, and tend to be affixed to bodies. Whether it's the Silver Imperium Crystal or the Black Crystals wielded by the Dark Kingdom, or those gemstone things from the arc where Jupiter first appeared (they like, housed Boxxy).

PLUS, much like how Usagi Tsukino is assisted by a strangely colored cat, Steven, too, has his bright, pink Lion. Though Luna is a lot more, erm, outspoken than Lion, the facts remain. Also, much like how Usagi's powers manifest as weapons, Steven's have once or twice as well.

The series has all that lesbian subtext you people seem to like so much, too.
 

Cheerilee

Member
Random "I just heard about this" slightly off-topic post.

Miraculous Ladybug
https://vimeo.com/130079689

Spiderman meets Sailor Moon in France? Toei's helping with it, so you know it's going to be quality. The lead character is voiced by Cristina Vee (Sailor Mars from the Viz dub). Supposed to air on Nickelodeon this fall.
 

Razmos

Member
Random "I just heard about this" slightly off-topic post.

Miraculous Ladybug
https://vimeo.com/130079689

Spiderman meets Sailor Moon in France? Toei's helping with it, so you know it's going to be quality. The lead character is voiced by Cristina Vee (Sailor Mars from the Viz dub). Supposed to air on Nickelodeon this fall.
I heard about this what feels like literally YEARS ago now, glad to see it's finally getting somewhere. I remember thinking it was awesome that there was a "Magical Boy" character, complete with transformation sequence.

It was first shown as an anime-styled trailer and spawned a pretty big fan base just from that.
I'm not sure about it becoming CG, but it's NICE looking CG, so it doesn't bother me that much.

I kinda see it as Sailor Moon meets Code Lyoko (an anime created in france)
Apparently it's based on the idea of Luck, her power is based on good luck, while his power, being a black cat, is bad luck.

EDIT: OH! Toei is releasing traditional 2D animated webisodes to go along with the CG episodes
That's so cool, looking forward to this.
 

Conan-san

Member
My intrest in that evaperated into nothing once it turned out they were going the 3D route with it.

It looks like butt, three dimensional butt.
 

Zoe

Member
I'm just now watching last week's S episodes. Sheesh, the models are all over the place in 120 :lol
 

MikeMyers

Member
Oh, I didn't see your "in 120" part. The episode I'm referring to is 114, so you probably have already seen it.

Sadly, the other Witches don't get as much screentime as Mimete. S pacing is kinda all over the place.
 

Zoe

Member
Tellu's episode was full of stop-motion :lol

So annoying they blew it with the Witches. That was supposed to be this version's strong point.
 
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