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Study: Obese men and women have <1% chance of attaining a normal weight (mod edit OP)

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KingGondo

Banned
marrec said:
I'd add to the the terrible practices that food producers are allowed to get away with.

We need to regulate food more closely so that people have less opportunity to get fat and fat people stop drinking so much of their calories.
100% agreed. Sadly America's anti-regulatory mindset combined with our deep, abiding faith in supposed "individual responsibility" will make progress extremely difficult.

Anybody who hasn't should read Salt Sugar Fat by Michael Moss. Humans are not nearly as in charge of our day-to-day lifestyle "choices" as we'd like to think.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Wait wait wait wait... the studies methodology doesn't seem to support the conclusion.



They simply did a statistical analysis, which is useful but not enough to draw this extreme of a conclusion.

Welcome to nutritional studies and science reporting.

I see that Gaf is as ignorant as ever regarding the physiological realities of obesity.

Come on, man... are you going to paste your lecture about pH balances or whatever and hold it up as the holy grail of why it's difficult to lose body fat?
 

Reebot

Member
They simply did a statistical analysis, which is useful but not enough to draw this extreme of a conclusion.

Yeah, which is the problem.

Since the issue is not one of raw statistical chance describing it in that manner isn't accurate.
 

Velcro Fly

Member
I may not be a normal weight, but I'm not obese anymore. 5'11 190 is still overweight, but I'm sorts happy with being able to shop for clothes anywhere I want instead of mainly at the big and tall shop.
 

Cagey

Banned
From the study...

It was not possible to evaluate intentionality of weight loss. Previous studies have reported that the majority of obese individuals would like to lose weight and that a large proportion is actively attempting to reduce their weight,25,26 so a relatively high level of intentionality among obese participants may be assumed.

Fucking lol.
 

AnAnole

Member
Welcome to nutritional studies and science reporting.



Come on, man... are you going to paste your lecture about pH balances or whatever and hold it up as the holy grail of why it's difficult to lose body fat?

pH? Jesus Christ, why do I even bother. The research community has a strong understanding of the physiological bases of obesity. Leptin is a HORMONE that falls precipitiously with fat loss and when replenished to pre weight-loss levels, reverses most of the adaptations to weight loss.
 

entremet

Member
I am the 1%.

I'd be interested to see why and how they gained the weight back, the article fails to mention that.



I'd add to the the terrible practices that food producers are allowed to get away with.

We need to regulate food more closely so that people have less opportunity to get fat and fat people stop drinking so much of their calories.

I do agree.

If you're obese you're fighting a huge uphill battle that requires immense patience and willpower.

Good to see Salt Sugar Fat posted.

Again, our environment make it so losing weight is a Herculean task.
 

Opiate

Member
is that a fair comparison? For most people to lose weight, you have to be dedicated and eat less and maybe exercise more. An individual has full control of that. Getting out of poverty relies on a million factors, with many of them being out of a person's hands.

It really isn't. If you work hard in school, apply yourself, choose your major wisely, and then aggressively job hunt, virtually anyone can do well. There are renowned physicans who grew up in poor urban neighborhoods; there are famous inventors who came from modest rural backgrounds.

Please note that I'm not suggesting we shouldn't have empathy for those who are poor and uneducated; we should. I'm only showing why all problems can be moderated by "will power."
 
I wonder how many people who fail to lose weight/put weight back on live in households with other overweight individuals. I think I remember reading it's more 'difficult' to lose when you're a member of an overweight family. I personally dropped 70 in about 8 months with little trouble, but I'm single, so I had more control of my environment (no access to snacks if I have cravings, better meal/portion control, etc.).
 

Opiate

Member
That's a pretty huge assumption.

It is. Marrec posted earlier, but I feel the stronger criticism is that this is annual weight reduction, not lifetime, if someone assumed that.

That is, in any given year, only .5% of obese people achieve normal weight. That number may be notably higher over the course of lifespans, however.
 

Cagey

Banned
That's a pretty huge assumption.


I had my suspicions given the way the article presented the study, but I would have never guessed the study itself would handwave away intention and earnest attempt to lose weight in the manner it did. It's one thing to acknowledge the limitations of the research, but it's quite another to dismiss the limitations with an assumption of that magnitude.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
pH? Jesus Christ, why do I even bother. The research community has a strong understanding of the physiological bases of obesity. Leptin is a HORMONE that falls precipitiously with fat loss and when replenished to pre weight-loss levels, reverses most of the adaptations to weight loss.

Yes, they do. Weren't you going on about pH balances in a previous thread?

Anyway, your position is that once you get fat and a new "normal" is established, various physiological phenomena come into play to make it more difficult for the person to lose weight (the body "fights" against weight loss in an attempt to main the established "normal"). Something like that, right?
 

Nikodemos

Member
I believe this. I managed to drop 10 kilos from 83 to 73, but can't seem to do so any further (I need to drop about an extra 6 kilos to reach a point where I don't have any overly visible flab). It's just really hard when all our current food is just so ridiculously energy-dense, and with the 'wrong' kind of energy (fuckloads of sugar) too. And the 'healthy' choices are more expensive and time-consuming to pursue. Overweight poor people working crappy hours are kinda fucked.
 

marrec

Banned
I think the OP needs to be updated with a disclaimer about the seemingly flawed conclusion drawn from this study and it's poor methodology.
 

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
My lecture is that like this study is suggesting that the they current methods are extremely ineffective at combating the obesity epidemic, even though they might work on personal basis.
 

Mimosa97

Member
I feel like a lot of people here who are saying " You can't blame people for not trying when studies show that it's hopeless anywas " think that people just gain the weight by magic. Like they keep eating healthy and keep their calories intake in check but they still gain the weight back. But it's not what's happening here. What is happening and what needs to be adressed is that these people end up going back to their unhealthy habits, eating unhealthy food full of sugar and start gaining their weight back. I personally know many people who followed this path and I know only one person who is still in shape today. My aunt.
She used to be obese, lost 200 lbs 15 years ago and now at almost 50 she's still very athletic and still " obsessed " with what she eats. I don't remember her ever giving up and just letting herself go. I even remember my own family trying to make her eat cake and stuff like that during family gatherings and she would still say no, and this was years after she lost the weight. So yeah she definitely took it a bit too far and she has a special kind of willpower but I feel like she knew it was the only way for her to not gain the weight back. And people need to accept that. You're running a marathon.
I just hope one day we'll give sugar the cigaret-treatment.
 
It is. Marrec posted earlier, but I feel the stronger criticism is that this is annual weight reduction, not lifetime, if someone assumed that.

That is, in any given year, only .5% of obese people achieve normal weight. That number may be notably higher over the course of lifespans, however.

Or perhaps even lower, as many people regain the weight they lose on diet. My mom lost 50 pounds by doing weight watchers and working really hard at the gym and on eating decent food but has put a lot of that back on.
 

AnAnole

Member
Yes, they do. Weren't you going on about pH balances in a previous thread?

Anyway, your position is that once you get fat and a new "normal" is established, various physiological phenomena come into play to make it more difficult for the person to lose weight (the body "fights" against weight loss in an attempt to main the established "normal"). Something like that, right?

I may have compared the bodies attempts at maintaining its normal homeostatic weight to that of the body attempting to maintain other homeostatic mechanisms.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
People really need to watch the video I posted by a renowned obesity research, who may very well win the nobel prize.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pBj0wy35A8

Leptin is an extremely important hormone, but it's really not the end all be all when it comes to this stuff. Human physiology is extremely complicated as you well know, and there are a wide variety of factors at play. Trying to finger one single thing as the culprit is not the answer.
 

marrec

Banned
Or perhaps even lower, as many people regain the weight they lose on diet. My mom lost 50 pounds by doing weight watchers and working really hard at the gym and on eating decent food but has put a lot of that back on.

That's conjecture though and no conclusion can be drawn from what is simply a statistical analysis of weight loss other than, as someone above said, society weight loss strategies should be changed.

Prevention shouldn't be the goal though, we need to change the entire food industry to help support healthy eating.
 
This is very vague. Is this saying that there's less than a 1% chance of obese people having the willpower to lose their excess weight, or less than a 1% chance of an obese person being able to lose the weight even with strong willpower? The two are very different, as if it's the former, you can do something about that.
 
It's amazing how people here have the capability to completely ignore everything in the OP that goes against what they think. Good job guys!
 

entremet

Member
This is very vague. Is this saying that there's less than a 1% chance of obese people having the willpower to lose their excess weight, or less than a 1% chance of an obese person being able to lose the weight even with strong willpower? The two are very different, as if it's the forme, you can do something about that.

How do you quantify willpower?

It's amazing how people here have the capability to completely ignore everything in the OP that goes against what they think. Good job guys!

Confirmation bias.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Scientific thinking goes out the window when we start talking about obesity.

Very strange from a place that's always talking about citing studies.

Well, here's a study!

And it's not a very good one like many others on the topic. A big problem is that people hold up published studies as some kind of proof for their arguments (and usually only by looking at the abstract or conclusion) without factoring in all of the context that was a part of that study.
 

PK Gaming

Member
A guy I know managed to run it back in spite of being super obese. It's doable. You just have to put in the effort that makes you that less than 1%. Extremely hard, but doable.
 

KingGondo

Banned
Prevention shouldn't be the goal though, we need to change the entire food industry to help support healthy eating.
We should, but that's incredibly unlikely. Remember the uproar when Mayor Bloomberg tried to limit the sizes of fountain soft drinks in some stores?
 
Can you point out, exactly, where in the article or study it says that eating less DOESN'T result in weight loss?

When you can point out where I said it doesn't.


.... I'll wait.

Of course eating less will result in weight loss. My beef is with the liars and fools on gaf who pretend it is easy to do, or imply that people who don't lose weight are just lazy.
 
J

Jpop

Unconfirmed Member
It really isn't. If you work hard in school, apply yourself, choose your major wisely, and then aggressively job hunt, virtually anyone can do well. There are renowned physicans who grew up in poor urban neighborhoods; there are famous inventors who came from modest rural backgrounds.

Please note that I'm not suggesting we shouldn't have empathy for those who are poor and uneducated; we should. I'm only showing why all problems can be moderated by "will power."

This isn't necessarily true though. There are plenty of people who do all of the above but still have a difficult time advancing their socioeconomic status. One of the flaws of your point is that people that do succeed from a lower socioeconomic status are often in the spotlight while those who do the exact same thing but fail are often forgotten or never talked about.
 

entremet

Member
And it's not a very good one like many others on the topic. A big problem is that people hold up published studies as some kind of proof for their arguments (and usually only by looking at the abstract or conclusion) without factoring in all of the context that was a part of that study.

I would agree. That's where scientific reporting is needed.

Laymen aren't the best at interpreting studies, and I include myself in that!
 

Partition

Banned
It's amazing how people here have the capability to completely ignore everything in the OP that goes against what they think. Good job guys!

It's amazing how people are defending this study instead of actually understanding the lack of quantifiable information it truly gives us.
 

AnAnole

Member
What the study does not show is if the 99% of fat people who didn't lose weight even tried to lose weight.

Study is garbage.

Do you really think the vast majority of obese people haven't attempted to lose weight? Do you know ANYTHING about the homeostatic mechanisms of weight regulation?
 

Cagey

Banned
It's amazing how people here have the capability to completely ignore everything in the OP that goes against what they think. Good job guys!

I know it's become a sign of ignorance, questionable intent, and in some instances, a purported dog-whistle for racism, sexism, and all sorts of odious bigotry... but the idea of waiting to form an opinion until more facts are available isn't wrong.

For example, wanting to read the study summarized by a news article instead of commenting on the study based on a news article.
 

marrec

Banned
I would agree. That's where scientific reporting is needed.

Laymen aren't the best at interpreting studies, and I include myself in that!

It took me 5 seconds of reading the methodology and conclusion to realize that this reporting was bunk. You'd probably come to the same conclusion if you read it.

I think they're pushing an agenda personally.

Do you really think the vast majority of obese people haven't attempted to lose weight? Do you know ANYTHING about the homeostatic mechanisms of weight regulation?

We're talking about this study, which doesn't say anything about intentionality.
 
I guess it is very psychological at its core

I mean, I could easily go a whole day eating nary a banana. But could someone else? Maybe, maybe not.

For example today I ate a slice of quiche and a banana. Piece of salmon with some potatoes for dinner. I really honestly do not need anything more.

Yeah same here.

Also, maybe it's because I was poor as fuck during my university years (still am actually), but being hungry doesn't feel too bad. I mean, there is a reason we can go months without eating and not die. I guess this is where personal differences come into play but I don't get how it seems completely impossible for some people to stop eating beyond three or two decent meals per day. How do you even get to that point where you are so goddamn addicted to food.

I mean, you're posting on GAF late at night and your stomach might start to growl, why not just say: "fuck it, I'll just stay hungry for a while" if you are determined to lose weight instead of stuffing your face with Snickers bars.
 

JMDSO

Unconfirmed Member
We should, but that's incredibly unlikely. Remember the uproar when Mayor Bloomberg tried to limit the sizes of fountain soft drinks in some stores?

Get rid of massive sodas and free refills.

People will hate it, but it'll help.
 

Opiate

Member
That's conjecture though and no conclusion can be drawn from what is simply a statistical analysis of weight loss other than, as someone above said, society weight loss strategies should be changed.

Prevention shouldn't be the goal though, we need to change the entire food industry to help support healthy eating.

I think it's reasonable to infer that "willpower" in cases like this are mostly an illusion. I absolutely agree with cagey for a scientific paper, but for lay observation it is absolutely reasonable to assume that most people don't like being fat. There is tremendous pressure on obese people to lose weight from a variety of angles; their doctors will tell them to lose weight, and everyone is aware that being fat means you are likely to die younger. There is social pressure, as nearly everyone is aware (consciously or not) that fat people are given lower social status than skinny people. In some cases (especially children), obese people are openly mocked and ridiculed. Romantic options are fewer, too. And of course, there is internal pressure, as obese people often have lower energy or chronic pain which can be readily managed by being skinnier.

If we have statistical analysis which shows that people remain obese even with this tremendous social, medical, romantic and personal pressure to be skinnier, then that suggests it's not meaningfully in people's control. If it was, fewer people would be obese.
 

KingGondo

Banned
This isn't necessarily true though. There are plenty of people who do all of the above but still have a difficult time advancing their socioeconomic status. One of the flaws of your point is that people that do succeed from a lower socioeconomic status are often in the spotlight while those who do the exact same thing but fail are often forgotten or never talked about.
Not to get off on a whole discrimination tangent here, but it was depressing to hear my father in law admit that if a resume with an "ethnic" name comes across his desk it goes straight into the trash.

And of course, he's a strong believer that anyone can succeed in America if they just work hard enough. I made sure to point out the irony of the situation to him.
 
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