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[Beer Monkey]

The findings are based on the electronic health records of 279,000 people. People who were categorised as severely obese were even less likely to attain healthy weight – with a 1 in 1,290 chance among men and a one in 677 chance among women.

Um, It doesn't say what percentage of the 279,000 people were actively trying to lose weight.

If you tell any trainers or dietitians that only <1% obese people can lose weight they'll laugh at you because they know better.

You'll also note that the snapshots were taken one year apart. Obesity to healthy isn't a 'less than one year' thing.

Rubbish study, but great for people looking for confirmation bias. I give it an F.

 

[Opiate]

This isn't necessarily true though. There are plenty of people who do all of the above but still have a difficult time advancing their socioeconomic status. One of the flaws of your point is that people that do succeed from a lower socioeconomic status are often in the spotlight while those who do the exact same thing but fail are often forgotten or never talked about.

That is true with obese people as well, of course; Jared is a prime example of a person thrust in to the spotlight because of his success in weight loss. Many famous fitness gurus share similar stories, and use their personal weight loss as evidence to catapult them to stardom.

 

[marrec]

Get rid of massive sodas and free refills.

People will hate it, but it'll help.

Just get rid of soda all together, it's killing people just as quickly as cigarettes.

 

[entremet]

Not to get off on a whole discrimination tangent here, but it was depressing to hear my father in law admit that if a resume with an "ethnic" name comes across his desk it goes straight into the trash.

And of course, he's a strong believer that anyone can succeed in America if they just work hard enough. I made sure to point out the irony of the situation to him.

As someone with an ethnic name, that's sad to here.

 

[Bel Marduk]

Obesity makes exercise harder for people, thus leading to more obesity. People should do everything the can to not get fat in the first place. The Michelle Obama school lunch initiatives are a goo start but we must prevent obesity starting from a very young age.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I would agree. That's where scientific reporting is needed.

Laymen aren't the best at interpreting studies, and I include myself in that!

Turns out that most people reporting science aren't, either. Sometimes, even the people writing the conclusions to the studies aren't qualified or turn out to be interpreting the data in a biased way. It's all very murky, especially when it comes to nutrition studies, which are largely epidemiological in nature.

 

[MisterR]

Why?

Because as you get older your metabolism slows down. You also have often have more responsibility like having kids and careers. That greatly limits your time to work out.

 

[marrec]

I think it's reasonable to infer that "willpower" in cases like this are mostly an illusion. I absolutely agree with cagey for a scientific paper, but for lay observation it is absolutely reasonable to assume that most people don't like being fat. There is tremendous pressure on obese people to lose weight from a variety of angles; their doctors will tell them to lose weight, and everyone is aware that being fat means you are likely to die younger. There is social pressure, as nearly everyone is aware (consciously or not) that fat people are given lower social status than skinny people. In some cases (especially children), obese people are openly mocked and ridiculed. Romantic options are fewer, too. And of course, there is internal pressure, as obese people often have lower energy or chronic pain which can be readily managed by being skinnier.

If we have statistical analysis which shows that people remain obese even with this tremendous social, medical, romantic and personal pressure to be skinnier, then that suggests it's not meaningfully in people's control. If it was, fewer people would be obese.

This is all true of course but it's irresponsible to look at this study and come to the conclusions of the OPs thread title.

 

[Nikodemos]

LOL @ people exhorting the virtues of 'willpower'.

Let me tell you this: willpower is a resource just like any other. One has a finite amount of maximum willpower (also, default levels vary from person to person: some have higher, some have lower). It gets depleted and replenished just like any other resource. Some conditions cause a loss of willpower and/or slow down its replenishment. Stress causes loss of willpower and decreased replenishment. Fatigue (either physical or mental) causes willpower loss and decreased replenishment. Lack of money causes willpower loss and decreased replenishment.

Saying "lel they lack willpowerz!" is an utterly worthless statement.

 

[mercenar1e]

im in the 1% and it was the easiest thing i have ever done.

 

[KingGondo]

As someone with an ethnic name, that's sad to here.

I mean, at least he was honest about it.

Think about how many hiring managers are out there who convince themselves that someone with a certain name "won't fit our workplace culture."

im in the 1% and it was the easiest thing i have ever done.

Haha. This is some good shit right here.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Not to get off on a whole discrimination tangent here, but it was depressing to hear my father in law admit that if a resume with an "ethnic" name comes across his desk it goes straight into the trash.

And of course, he's a strong believer that anyone can succeed in America if they just work hard enough. I made sure to point out the irony of the situation to him.

Pretty much, the meritocracy is a bullshit fantasy and the haves will highlight just about any have not that found success in order to maintain the illusion and avoid ever having to change a system that benefits them so greatly.

 

[esms]

Just get rid of soda all together, it's killing people just as quickly as cigarettes.

Don't make me mix my alcohol with juice man.

 

[JMDSO]

Because as you get older your metabolism slows down. You also have often have more responsibility like having kids and careers. That greatly limits your time to work out.

Add to that (in my case) having two disabled kids, one car, and working 20 miles each way from home.

There are days I barely have enough energy left to cook nevermind actually cook something healthy.

Call it an excuse if you will, but I have tried numerous times. I KNOW I need to lose weight, and that my sleep apnea can cause me to die in my sleep.

 

[Opiate]

This is all true of course but it's irresponsible to look at this study and come to the conclusions of the OPs thread title.

No argument there. I could change it, but I'd rather the discussion continue as is, as explaining how and why the title is bad is educational in itself.

 

[Alexlf]

I think it's reasonable to infer that "willpower" in cases like this are mostly an illusion. I absolutely agree with cagey for a scientific paper, but for lay observation it is absolutely reasonable to assume that most people don't like being fat. There is tremendous pressure on obese people to lose weight from a variety of angles; their doctors will tell them to lose weight, and everyone is aware that being fat means you are likely to die younger. There is social pressure, as nearly everyone is aware (consciously or not) that fat people are given lower social status than skinny people. In some cases (especially children), obese people are openly mocked and ridiculed. Romantic options are fewer, too. And of course, there is internal pressure, as obese people often have lower energy or chronic pain which can be readily managed by being skinnier.

If we have statistical analysis which shows that people remain obese even with this tremendous social, medical, romantic and personal pressure to be skinnier, then that suggests it's not meaningfully in people's control. If it was, fewer people would be obese.

It does nothing however to show the knowledge level surrounding obesity and how to lose weight though. Actually, the fact that they become obese implies they already have a lack of knowledge on the topic.

There exists massive amounts of misinformation surrounding weightloss from tv shows to magazines in every grocery store.

Until we find out how much of an effect misinformation has vs how much of an effect lack of will vs what ever other factors are invlovled, I would say it flat out wrong to "infer" that "willpower is an illusion".

 

[Jpop]

That is true with obese people as well, of course; Jared is a prime example of a person thrust in to the spotlight because of his success in weight loss. Many famous fitness gurus share similar stories, and use their personal weight loss as evidence to catapult them to stardom.

It is similar to a psychological effect where until you notice something it doesn't exist, but when you notice something it begins to exist and you will continuously notice it.


It's how people may notice a person for the first time and then after that they see them everywhere they go.

 

[Stallion Dan]

I spent considerably less when losing weight, as I wasn't buying so much crap.

Today I spend a fraction of what I spent before as I almost consistently home cook and rarely order from takeaways.

If you can afford takeaways you can afford healthy foods, cheap foods are not healthy. Is cool you have the time to cook as well.

 

[entremet]

I mean, at least he was honest about it.

Think about how many hiring managers are out there who convince themselves that someone with a certain name "won't fit our workplace culture."


Haha. This is some good shit right here.

I've actually been on hiring committees and have seen it myself. It's subtle, but it's really sad and almost impossible to enforce, even though it is illegal.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

We should, but that's incredibly unlikely. Remember the uproar when Mayor Bloomberg tried to limit the sizes of fountain soft drinks in some stores?

You want to change the culture then you have to knock "Biting into something that is juicy, fatty, and delicious, then downing it with something sugary" off the number 1 spot on "the
Best part of my day" list, which usually means higher wage and less work

 

[marrec]

Don't make me mix my alcohol with juice man.

Carbonated water or you get arrested.

 

[KarmaCow]

What the study does not show is if the 99% of fat people who didn't lose weight even tried to lose weight.

Study is garbage.

Eh, skimming over it now, it takes a more overview approach to obesity in society than pointing to specific issues that prevent weight loss. The conclusion of the study isn't that people are incapable like the provocative article title makes it seem.

If you can afford takeaways you can afford healthy foods, cheap foods are not healthy.

Well it's also not just about spending money. Ordering a pizza takes significantly less time and effort than even making your own.

 

[Opiate]

It is similar to a psychological effect where until you notice something it doesn't exist, but when you notice something it begins to exist and you will continuously notice it.


It's how people may notice a person for the first time and then after that they see them everywhere they go.

Or you hear a word for the "first time" and then start hearing it everywhere. Absolutely, I agree.

 

[GatorBait]

Completely implementing a new habit and achieving a long-term goal is statistically very tough for the masses, in general. And realize, it takes implementing multiple new behaviors to turn around the habits that led someone to becoming overweight. Add to that the fact that it is so much easier to put on weight than lose it (I can put a few pounds in a week without even trying, whereas it may take me two weeks of consistent, focused effort to lose that same amount), and our societal structures (in the U.S.) are working against you almost every step of the way.

It's initially surprising to me that the percentages are that bad, but in some respects, it makes a lot of logical sense.

 

[Dimmle]

Wow, a lot of real life monsters in this thread.

 

[KingGondo]

You want to change the culture then you have to knock "Biting into something that is juicy, fatty, and delicious, then downing it with something sugary" off the number 1 spot on "the
Best part of my day list" Which usually means higher wage and less work

Which of course means "lower productivity," a lower stock price for that company, and lower profits for the companies that push terrible convenience food into the food supply.

I sometimes wonder if it's a coincidence that the obesity epidemic began in the Reagan era. Probably not.

 

[Aikidoka]

I think part of what this is showing is that it is not in your hand. At least, not in the way you mean it.

Hypothesis: if obesity was "truly in your control," very few people would be obese, because very few people enjoy being obese. They suffer from low energy, early mortality (if they are very obese, that is), are often ridiculed, and are typically given lower social status (as most people perceived as "ugly" are).

The fact that so many people seem to be "choosing" to be obese in the developed world when there is strong social and medical pressure to avoid it seems to be compatible with the notion hat this isn't really in your control in the way we mean it, and the sense that it's in your control is mostly an illusion.

I don't get what you mean. You cannot say that someone who is unhappy with their current status is automatically trying to improve themselves. Many people just resign themselves because they do not want to put in the effort required to change. For instance, the steps you listed for finding a successful job are very straightforward but do require a lot of effort to perform, and so a lot of people do not bother. Maintaining a diet and exercise schedule also requires considerable focus and effort.

 

[Black-Wind]

I thought this was well known by now.

Obesity is pretty much a life time title as it stands. You may be able yo get good weight and stay there for some years but at some point it seems like your body just keeps trying to bounce back to that unhealthy weight and the effort to keep it off is too much. Be it unhealthy habits just never being able to fully be taken out of your psyche or maybe something in our food just fucks some people's bodies more.

The best cure for it right now seems to be ... to never become obese.

 

[Cagey]

Wow, a lot of real life monsters in this thread.

Where are these real life monsters and what makes them so monstrous?

 

[Nocebo]

I sometimes wonder: is it not common knowledge that you don't have to keep eating until you're full? And that it is not a good idea to keep eating if you're full. It is not a bad thing to walk around feeling hungry. If people genuinely do not know this maybe it should be taught in some classes in school. Or maybe I'm mistaken and it is bad to feel hungry even after you've eaten?

 

[marrec]

Eh, skimming over it now, it takes a more overview approach to obesity in society than pointing to specific issues that prevent weight loss. The conclusion of the study isn't that people are incapable like the provocative article title makes it seem.

Right, study isn't garbage, it seems to be legitimate... the conclusion is garbage.

And willpower doesn't mean shit in our society when gas stations selling 99 cent 1 Liter sodas are always within 4 blocks of your house. I and other here have lost massive amounts of weight because we were able to stop stuff our faces with shit, for some people its impossible because they're surrounded by a culture that encourages you to stuff your face with shit.

Regardless of what society pushes as beauty and health standards, if we still support a food industry that adds toxic amounts of sweeteners to already sweet foods then none of our healthy standards will matter.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

Just get rid of soda all together, it's killing people just as quickly as cigarettes.

It's really a terrible thing. I'm glad I've never really a fan of them, so it wasn't hard to quit them.

 

[Josh with a J]

One time I realized I was 10 pounds overweight so I lost it instead waiting til I was 200 pounds over.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

Unless people think that somehow humans as a speicies have lost a lot of willpower in the last generation, it doesn't make sense to blame our current issues upon willpower.

What has changed is our food environment and so if you want things to change substantially in regards to obesity we need to find a way to change our food environment so that the finite resource of willpower isn't expended as quickly as it is now.

 

[Kureransu]

How can fat people be lazy if continuously overeating takes considerably more effort than not eating? I'd say that instead of being lazy they are not lazy enough and are actually way too active. When it comes to eating at least.

I think the biggest thing people tend forget about when dealing over eating, is that the amount of food means they eat means nothing. It's the calorie surplus. Another thing is drinks. I'm willing to guess most people drink 500-1000 calroies a day easy.

I weighed 380. I would eat An Asiago Chesse bagel from panera, two double cheesebugers and a super size fry, a couple 32 oz cokes, and a Giant Ms. Field's Cookie slice with M&M's and icing on top. That's it.Not a lot of food. But WELLL over my caloric limit.

I lost my weight a few years ago and put on a ton of mass (muscle) to prevent as much loose skin as possible. I'm cutting right now (currently 5'8" 211 lbs, 33 inch waist) and i eat more now than i did then. But the food is better quality, keeps me full longer and not as calorie dense.

 

[Sanke__]

One time I realized I was 10 pounds overweight so I lost it instead waiting til I was 200 pounds over.

Please tell me you don't actually think that's how it works?

 

[Josh with a J]

Please tell me you don't actually think that's how it works?

You don't wake up obese

 

[Dimmle]

Where are these real life monsters and what makes them so monstrous?

Just a basic lack of empathy and a surplus of tone-deaf bootstrap advice.

 

[esms]

Carbonated water or you get arrested.

Soda speakeasy incoming.

 

[Prophet Steve]

It's amazing how people are defending this study instead of actually understanding the lack of quantifiable information it truly gives us.

I know it's become a sign of ignorance, questionable intent, and in some instances, a purported dog-whistle for racism, sexism, and all sorts of odious bigotry... but the idea of waiting to form an opinion until more facts are available isn't wrong.

For example, wanting to read the study summarized by a news article instead of commenting on the study based on a news article.

Oh yes, I have some questions in regards to the study too.

But then you get plenty of people here that say it is easy to do so. If you look at the numbers that state how many of the people that lose weight rebound, no, it is not easy for them.

 

[AnAnole]

Yes, they do. Weren't you going on about pH balances in a previous thread?

Anyway, your position is that once you get fat and a new "normal" is established, various physiological phenomena come into play to make it more difficult for the person to lose weight (the body "fights" against weight loss in an attempt to main the established "normal"). Something like that, right?

Yes. Why do people, when forced to lose weight in metabolic wards, invariably experience the same meatabolic adaptations to weight loss, and why are these adaptations invariably reversed by replacing leptin to set-point levels? And why do most of the very rare subset of people who are able to maintain their weight loss for several years on their own, when asked to return to the lab to be observed, still display the same adapations to weight loss? And why, when people are born with a mutation in the leptin gene, why do they invariably become morbidly obese, and the only way to correct this is replacement of leptin? You're right, there are other factors in obesity. Some people simply hoard more fat/glucose or have mutations in their gene that produces ghrelin, which causes their ghrelin levels to stay higher, which causes them to be hungrier. Besides mutations in the leptin producing gene, there may be mutations in the leptin receptor in the POMC of the hypothalamus, or there may be mutations in various downstream receptors/protein producing regions that can affect appetite and/or energy expenditure. Obesity does have complexities, but once it's established, leptin plays a huge role in maintaining one's set-point.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Well it's also not just about spending money. Ordering a pizza takes significantly less time and effort than even making your own.

Yeah I edited to mention time.

I feel people are oblivious to a lot of reasons that make it hard to lsoe weight.

Is cool if you can afford healthy foods, have the time to cook a healthy dinner every night, time and money to hit the gym, or a home big enough to set up an area can work out at home.

That is not most people, and lacking one can easily void another, like if you got the money for healthy foods but not the time to cook or work out, you're probably gonna spend that money on takaways and instant foods (generally unhealthy) instead.

 

[Sanke__]

You don't wake up obese

Yeah but you grow up obese
You really think it's that simple for a child in middle school?

 

[marrec]

I'm still made at the studies conclusion.

It would be akin to saying all people have <1% chance of attaining Billions of Dollars and concluding that that's a systemic issue with our society instead of focusing on the intentionality of the people in the study.

Everyone "wants" to have a billion dollars. But it's a casual want that's not worth working toward for most people. Most people want to live another day without having too much hardship or making too many difficult choices.

Most fat people "want" to lose weight, but a lot of them don't want to make the difficult and oftentimes uncomfortable choices associated with that weight loss. They are comfortable and content where they are at. To say that all fat people have a burning desire to not be fat is to give too much credit to the human mind.

 

[Dreavus]

I sometimes wonder: is it not common knowledge that you don't have to keep eating until you're full? And that it is not a good idea to keep eating if you're full. It is not a bad thing to walk around feeling hungry. If people genuinely do not know this maybe it should be taught in some classes in school. Or maybe I'm mistaken and it is bad to feel hungry even after you've eaten?

Well, that falls in line with the old japanese adage about "eating until you're 80% full". In regards to satiety it's supposed to be a good thing anyways.

 

[Gallbaro]

Subsidize Corn!

 

[Josh with a J]

Yeah but you grow up obese
You really think it's that simple for a child in middle school?

True, that's on the shitty parents.

Not everyone that's obese was fat as a kid though

 

[KevinCow]

Regardless of the validity of this particular study, I've heard statistics like these before. It's pretty depressing. I think the only thing that will make me lose weight at this point is getting stomach surgery, which I plan to do once I have insurance and money.

 

[Cagey]

Right, study isn't garbage, it seems to be legitimate... the conclusion is garbage.

And willpower doesn't mean shit in our society when gas stations selling 99 cent 1 Liter sodas are always within 4 blocks of your house. I and other here have lost massive amounts of weight because we were able to stop stuff our faces with shit, for some people its impossible because they're surrounded by a culture that encourages you to stuff your face with shit.

Regardless of what society pushes as beauty and health standards, if we still support a food industry that adds toxic amounts of sweeteners to already sweet foods then none of our healthy standards will matter.

Agreed. The amount of calories in excess to maintain bodyweight an average person with an average diet profile can consume through liquids is staggering.

 

[marrec]

Regardless of the validity of this particular study, I've heard statistics like these before. It's pretty depressing. I think the only thing that will make me lose weight at this point is getting stomach surgery, which I plan to do once I have insurance and money.

I truly believe that if you had the proper support group who helped you daily you'd be able to drop the pounds. Unfortunately for most people they don't have that kind of support available and the food industry certainly isn't trying to help them.

I wish I could help, honestly.