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[samn]

This is a great way to get started but honestly I think we should be even more extreme in our regulation of the food industry.

If someone wants a brownie, they should have to make that shit from scratch, not buy it from the gas station.

Oh I can go with that, certainly.

But in the UK at least, we shouldn't forget how expensive it is to eat healthily, which impacts on the poor. I wonder how that can be helped.

 

[Nocebo]

Because all i ate was a bagel and giant cookie. That stuff doesn't really keep you full.

But i'll tell it to you another way. Sonic has a shake that is 2000 calories. ONE SHAKE, 2000 caloires. That's 85-110% of the ideal intake for people. in one freaking shake. And you know it's loaded with sugar. If got that every day, you'd pretty always be in a calorie surplus guaranteed. And don't be a short woman......

That's kind of my point though. Who ever taught people that you're supposed to feel full? Our parents maybe? I guess that works for teaching kids how much to eat initially...

I realize it is easy to over eat with this kind of high calorie food around. I don't live in the USA but is fruit and drinkable water hard to come by?

I think the biggest thing people need to start to understand is that being hungry isn't a bad thing.

Right now it's around 3:00, I have dinner around 6:00.

Today I had an english muffin with 1 tbsp of penut butter, one tbsp of jam, 8oz of milk, some coffee for breakfast. Around 11 I had wheat bread with two slices of roast beef and a slice of cheese.

That's not that much food, and I'm pretty fucking hungry right now. But that's ok! It's not a bad thing to be hungry for a few hours a day. When I was a kid anytime I was hungry I would eat till I was full, and that's how I developed my horrible habits.

Yes! This is my thought also. It seems pretty normal to me to wait to eat till dinner for instance even if you're feeling hungry. Do other people really feed their hunger almost immediately? Also I've encountered the "eat your plate clean" because "it's a waste of food to throw it away" habit a lot as well. This way of thinking seems like a slippery slope to me.

 

[entremet]

It's also structural. If you live in a walkable neighborhood, you'll be no doubt be leaner and healthier than someone who lives in the suburbs just because you'll be walking more, many times with no conscious decisions required from the person. People in walkable neighborhoods just walk because it's just the way it is.

Problem is that many western countries have primarily developed suburban style living and being highly dependent on the car in the last 50 to 70 years. Most activities that people now do is essentially walking to and from the automobile in the parking lot. Anglo-sphere countries(USA and the UK in particular) are especially keen on this type of development and are fatter as a result. You see this pattern in the USA where States with a lot of walkable cities tend to score higher on health and obesity metrics while those that have embraced car-dependent lifestyles are always the fattest ones (California vs Texas, for instance). You see the same problem creeping up on the developing countries now too, as suburban style housing becomes popular (and waist sizes have ballooned as a result).

Where people live makes a lot more influence on their waist sizes than most people realize and I suspect studies will come out in the future supporting this. Today, it is probably one of the least studied causes of obesity.

I remember backpacking throughout Europe a few years ago. Finding a fat person was hard.

Tons of walkable cities, ubiquitous mass transit, cycling and bike shares, and modest portion sizes.

We really need to rethink our urban planning.

 

[Dennis]

Highly misleading.

 

[marrec]

I get what you're saying, but doesn't that also apply to fast food and restaurants?

I think they need to be reigned in as well.

A radical mastectomy, as it were. Keep digging until you've removed every trace of the disease.

 

[Cagey]

I'm super empathetic toward those struggling to lose weight. I did it, I grew up grossly overweight, I understand. My empathy doesn't make this study's conclusions or methodology any less shitty though.

I've helped friends, including my best man at my wedding, through weight loss attempts and weight loss successes and failures alike. The best bro lost literally half his bodyweight by running and eating better and cutting out the excess drinking and binging on the weekends. He's now a pastry chef and gorges regularly on higher quality (still bad for you, just higher rated) foods and has maintained the weight loss for 6+ years running... by running and eating better most of the week. I'm not running around calling them fat asses.

But in repeated threads here, I've had people refer to my posts as lacking "empathy" as defined by the person making the charge and such definitions typically break down to "not having the viewpoint I do", which makes me chuckle.

I dislike the use of the word "empathy" on this board when it's clearly used as one of the buzzwords in someone's toolkit for online social issue discussions.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

"Rediscovering our kitchen" is something we can all agree upon.

And combating the notion that healthy eating is just salads and tasteless food.

 

[fushi]

Okay. Can you explain why?

Rising out of poverty is orders of magnitude more difficult than losing weight. The amount of work to be done, the complexity of each and every step, the sizable amount of choices one has and the need to choose just one (i.e. field of study), the systemic biases you have to face when you are a member of some discriminated minority, etc.

My completely anecdotal experience with weight loss is the polar opposite of that. But, I have never been obese, so my point is a moot one in the context of this thread.

 

[entremet]

"Rediscovering our kitchen" is something we can all agree upon.

And combating the notion that healthy eating is just salads and tasteless food.

What's interesting is that world best tasting food is generally very healthy food. Tons of emphasis on vegetables in season, various cuts of proteins, and so on.

Traditional Japanese, French, Italian food is super delicious and very healthy.

 

[Beer Monkey]

lol, collective evolution.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Collective_Evolution

LOL The Lancet
LOL Nature
LOL Nature, again
LOL PLOS

People need to shut up and at least cite metastudies instead of studies in their online arguments.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I started binging on the same foods I was dieting on (despite what some low carbers will say, you can gain weight quite easily eating eggs, butter and meat), and I would gain quite a bit of weight, then I went back to eating whatever it started to feel futile. Mind you, I didn't always lose weight on low carb, although I did find it easier to initally lose weight eating that way. I also lost weight by strictly calorie counting the first time I dieted, and then I lost weight on a more balanced diet of "healthy foods" consiting of lean meats, whole grains, etc. Low carb was easier, which is what I eat after the surgery, but it was still nearly impossible to keep the weight off once I lost enough weight.

In regards to the bolded, that certainly hasn't been my observation in myself or personal friends who have always seen great success and kept it off. I simply can't eat enough to put on fat with a diet absent of carbs. Obviously, this means that certain hormones are working correctly in me, and that wouldn't be the case for someone who doesn't get satiated properly, so I don't mean to call you a liar or anything.

"Rediscovering our kitchen" is something we can all agree upon.

And combating the notion that healthy eating is just salads and tasteless food.

+1

If everyone was able to cook their meals from whole ingredients, that would be a huge step to combating overweight and obesity.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

That's kind of my point though. Who ever taught people that you're supposed to feel full? Our parents maybe?

I realize it is easy to over eat with this kind of high calorie food around. I don't live in the USA but is fruit and drinkable water hard to come by?

Yes! This is my thought also. It seems pretty normal to me to wait to eat till dinner for instance even if you're feeling hungry. Do other people really feed their hunger almost immediately? Also I've encountered the "eat your plate clean" or else "it's a waste" habit a lot as well. This way of thinking seems like a slippery slope to me.

A lot of people got the "starving kids in Africa" speech from their parents when they didn't finish their food but I have no clue how widespread that is.

Neither fruit nor drinkable water is hard to come by, but thanks to food science a lot of junk is tastier to many palates than fruit, and thanks to subsidies can also be cheaper than fruit. It's really no wonder why people choose the fruit flavored snacks over the actual fruit a lot of times.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I think the biggest thing people need to start to understand is that being hungry isn't a bad thing.

Hunger pangs from calorie reduction (aka starting to eat what you should have all along) are just discomfort. Muscle soreness from weightlifting is WAY worse (and also is just discomfort).

When you feel sore muscles, tell yourself "this is what getting stronger feels like".

When you feel hunger pangs, tell yourself "this is what getting healthier feels like".

 

[Opiate]

Rising out of poverty is orders of magnitude more difficult than losing weight.

For you, that's possible. That's not true for everyone.

The amount of work to be done, the complexity of each and every step, the sizable amount of choices one has and the need to choose just one (i.e. field of study), the systemic biases you have to face when you are a member of some discriminated minority, etc.

I found it quite simple, personally. I went from having no money in my early 20s to having hundreds of thousands in savings today. Completely anecdotal, of course.

My completely anecdotal experience with weight loss is the polar opposite of that. But, I have never been obese, so my point is a moot one in the context of this thread.

My previous girlfriend was a Harvard trained lawyer who happened to be obese, and she certainly didn't enjoy being obese. Self evidently, she found education and job training easier than she found weight loss.

But that doesn't make her right and you wrong. I'm not suggesting that school and work are easy and that weight loss is hard; I'm suggesting we should have empathy for all of these people, as everyone struggles with something. Perhaps you find weight loss easy and school difficult; that's fine. Some things you find hard others will find easy, and vice versa. Someone else will struggle to do well in school; still others will struggle with a smoking habit. All of these are systemic problems, in my opinion.

 

[Halcyon]

I was obese.

Im 33. I cleaned up my diet and started lifting. People now think I look like Ryan Reynolds.

Everybody can lose the weight. Just not everyone knows how or wants it badly enough to choose the lifestyle change.

My sister is constantly struggling with it. We grew up in a family that had no idea how to eat. I've tried helping her but she hasn't been able to make any lasting change. It is hard but everyone can do it.

 

[LeleSocho]

I am the <1%

 

[PsychoSoldier]

Hunger pangs from calorie reduction (aka starting to eat what you should have all along) are just discomfort. Muscle soreness from weightlifting is WAY worse (and also is just discomfort).

When you feel sore muscles, tell yourself "this is what getting stronger feels like".

When you feel hunger pangs, tell yourself "this is what getting healthier feels like".

Your body is going to fight you way more on the second though so it's not as easy as all that.

Every food is going to look and smell better because your body is going to try to convince you to eat something it wants---willpower only goes so far when your mind and body are working against you.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I was obese.

Im 33. I cleaned up my diet and started lifting. People now think I look like Ryan Reynolds.

Everybody can lose the weight. Just not everyone knows how or wants it badly enough to choose the lifestyle change.

My sister is constantly struggling with it. We grew up in a family that had no idea how to eat. I've tried helping her but she hasn't been able to make any lasting change. It is hard but everyone can do it.

Yes, but the "not everyone knows how" part is massive and should have been your conclusion. That's the biggest issue, in my opinion. It's unlikely that most people want to continue being obese. Some may not care enough, or may prefer eating garbage, but I think most people would rather been thin, fit, and healthy, but just don't know how and are miserable when they try to follow the conventional wisdom.

 

[AnAnole]

LOL The Lancet
LOL Nature
LOL Nature, again
LOL PLOS

People need to shut up and at least cite metastudies instead of studies in their online arguments.

Here's your fucking meta-analysis:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.full

"In conclusion, this meta-analysis of 29 reports of long-term weight-loss maintenance indicated that weight-loss maintenance 4 or 5 y after a structured weight-loss program averages 3.0 kg or 23% of initial weight loss, representing a sustained reduction in body weight of 3.2%. Individuals who participated in a VLED program or lost &#8805;20 kg had a weight-loss maintenance at 4 or 5 y of 7 kg or 29% of initial weight loss, representing a sustained reduction in body weight of 6.6%. Although success in weight-loss maintenance has improved over the past decade, much more research is required to enable most individuals to sustain the lifestyle changes in physical activity and food choices necessary for successful weight maintenance."

Average weight loss of 3.0 KG after 4 or 5 years. Seems quite meager, but I'll let you try and correct me.

And another meta-analysis:

Another meta-analysis:

RESULTS:
A mean weight loss of 5 to 8.5 kg (5% to 9%) was observed during the first 6 months from interventions involving a reduced-energy diet and/or weight-loss medications with weight plateaus at approximately 6 months. In studies extending to 48 months, a mean 3 to 6 kg (3% to 6%) of weight loss was maintained with none of the groups experiencing weight regain to baseline. In contrast, advice-only and exercise-alone groups experienced minimal weight loss at any time point.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17904936

Again, 3 to 6 kg. I'll let you try and correct me again.

Oh, and one more, for good measure, from 2015, no less:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0121993

Trials enrolled 17,186 participants (53% female, mean age at randomization = 52 years). Mean body mass indices ranged from 30–46 kg/m2, follow-up times ranged from 18 months to 12.6 years (mean: 27 months), and average weight loss in reported trials was 5.5±4.0 kg. A total of 264 deaths were reported in weight loss groups and 310 in non-weight loss groups. The weight loss groups experienced a 15% lower all-cause mortality risk (RR = 0.85; 95% CI: 0.73–1.00). There was no evidence for heterogeneity of effect (Cochran’s Q = 5.59 (11 d.f.; p = 0.90); I2 = 0). Results were similar in trials with a mean age at randomization &#8805;55 years (RR = 0.84; 95% CI 0.71–0.99) and a follow-up time of &#8805;4 years (RR = 0.85; 95% CI 0.72–1.00).

5.5 KG. What's wrong with this meta-analysis?

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

A radical mastectomy, as it were. Keep digging until you've removed every trace of the disease.

Too much money in play for anything of the sort to ever happen. It'd be nice though.

 

[marrec]

Here's your fucking meta-analysis:

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.full

"In conclusion, this meta-analysis of 29 reports of long-term weight-loss maintenance indicated that weight-loss maintenance 4 or 5 y after a structured weight-loss program averages 3.0 kg or 23% of initial weight loss, representing a sustained reduction in body weight of 3.2%. Individuals who participated in a VLED program or lost &#8805;20 kg had a weight-loss maintenance at 4 or 5 y of 7 kg or 29% of initial weight loss, representing a sustained reduction in body weight of 6.6%. Although success in weight-loss maintenance has improved over the past decade, much more research is required to enable most individuals to sustain the lifestyle changes in physical activity and food choices necessary for successful weight maintenance."

Average weight loss of 3.0 KG after 4 or 5 years. Seems quite meager, but I'll let you try and correct me.

And another meta-analysis:

Another meta-analysis:

RESULTS:
A mean weight loss of 5 to 8.5 kg (5% to 9%) was observed during the first 6 months from interventions involving a reduced-energy diet and/or weight-loss medications with weight plateaus at approximately 6 months. In studies extending to 48 months, a mean 3 to 6 kg (3% to 6%) of weight loss was maintained with none of the groups experiencing weight regain to baseline. In contrast, advice-only and exercise-alone groups experienced minimal weight loss at any time point.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17904936

Again, 3 to 6 kg. I'll let you try and correct me again.

Oh, and one more, for good measure, from 2015, no less:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0121993

Trials enrolled 17,186 participants (53% female, mean age at randomization = 52 years). Mean body mass indices ranged from 30–46 kg/m2, follow-up times ranged from 18 months to 12.6 years (mean: 27 months), and average weight loss in reported trials was 5.5±4.0 kg. A total of 264 deaths were reported in weight loss groups and 310 in non-weight loss groups. The weight loss groups experienced a 15% lower all-cause mortality risk (RR = 0.85; 95% CI: 0.73–1.00). There was no evidence for heterogeneity of effect (Cochran’s Q = 5.59 (11 d.f.; p = 0.90); I2 = 0). Results were similar in trials with a mean age at randomization &#8805;55 years (RR = 0.84; 95% CI 0.71–0.99) and a follow-up time of &#8805;4 years (RR = 0.85; 95% CI 0.72–1.00).

5.5 KG. What's wrong with this meta-analysis?

I mean... all of those represent significant weight loss.

The last study showed a 15% lower mortality risk among the weight loss group.

Soo... it is possible to lose weight and get healthier is what you're saying?

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Yes, but the "not everyone knows how" part is massive and should have been your conclusion. That's the biggest issue, in my opinion. It's unlikely that most people want to continue being obese. Some may not care enough, or may prefer eating garbage, but I think most people would rather been thin, fit, and healthy, but just don't know how and are miserable when they try to follow the conventional wisdom.

Bingo.

And conventional wisdom has been co-opted by the food industry.

It really is like the tobacco industry.

A "balanced breakfast" being a sugary cereal, toast, and juice. I mean come on!

 

[Madness]

Of course it's going to be hard. It's going to require you to reverse decades of your lifestyle and eating habits. This is why so many people fail or rebound, because they stop making the changes or revert back to how they were. Real weight loss requires real change in your life. You can't just drop 40 pounds and then go back to how you were.

People are fat because they eat more food than their body can burn off. For example, Americans now are easily eating 600+ more calories on average in a day than Americans in the 70's were.

A sedentary lifestyle coupled with lack of exercise or fitness, in addition to highly processed and calorie heavy foods will make anyone fat. People are getting up, driving to work, hitting drive-thru for coffee and doughnuts, they take elevator up, sit at a desk, have lunch, finish work, drive home, order a pizza or takeout, eat and then sit on the sofa and watch television or play games, and then fall asleep and do it again. That's life for a lot of people, especially adults.

Any dietary change to a sedentary lifestyle will be difficult to keep up because you're going to start to feel angry or hungry if all you're doing is sitting on the sofa but eating salads and wondering why the weight isn't necessarily coming off so quick. You can't reverse years of fat/Weight gain in weeks or even months.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

Impose taxes on junk food, ban advertising and restrict placement within stores.

It should no longer be acceptable to place sweets and chocolate at kids eye height at the till.

Talk about freedom and responsibility all you like, but there's no other way to tackle the problem.

Also our governments should get out of bed with Kelloggs, Unilever and the like. It is amazing that they can partner in the name of promoting healthy eating.

I think New York has a juice tax actually. I'm sure more states will follow suit, as I'm sure it's easy way for local governments to raise funds.

I can't remember what region of the US this is, probably California, I just remember one time watching an american stream, and seeing a political attack ad where a woman was complaining about the other party trying to impose a juice tax.

 

[AnAnole]

I mean... all of those represent significant weight loss.

The last study showed a 15% lower mortality risk among the weight loss group.

Soo... it is possible to lose weight and get healthier is what you're saying?

I never said it was impossible to lose some weight. I even said in one of my initial posts that it's fair to expect someone to lose 5-10% of their initial weight and see large improvements in their health. What's not fair is to expect someone who is obese to maintain a normal weight without surgery. If you did, consider yourself extremely luck, as your odds of doing so are extremely low, for a number of biological reasons. There may be some reasons it's easier for some people to maintain a large weight loss. These include genetics, how long you've been overweight/obese (if you haven't been overweight for very long, it may be easier to maintain the weight loss) or if you lose weight while you're younger and/or going through puberty.

 

[Halcyon]

Yes, but the "not everyone knows how" part is massive and should have been your conclusion. That's the biggest issue, in my opinion. It's unlikely that most people want to continue being obese. Some may not care enough, or may prefer eating garbage, but I think most people would rather been thin, fit, and healthy, but just don't know how and are miserable when they try to follow the conventional wisdom.

I agree. I only learned how basically by reading about it on r/fitness.

Health classes should teach how to lose weight. What kinds of things to eat. How much you actually should exercises. How different goals require different diets etc.

Maybe they do. I'm just imagining in school everything is just nonsense about only eating organic non-gmo gluten free kale from Whole Foods.

 

[hockeypuck]

From the study...

It was not possible to evaluate intentionality of weight loss. Previous studies have reported that the majority of obese individuals would like to lose weight and that a large proportion is actively attempting to reduce their weight,25,26 so a relatively high level of intentionality among obese participants may be assumed.

Fucking lol.

That's a pretty huge assumption.

Right?

Haha good lord.

It was already established in previous large population studies that 50-70% of obese Americans are actively trying to lose weight. Where did I get those numbers? By looking at references 25 and 26 in your laughable quote, Cagey. If you want to laugh at these British authors for basing their assumptions of British population intentionality using data on Americans, I have no qualms with that. If you think 50-70% intentionality is too low and would meaningfully change the outcome of this study's results, I have no qualms with that. If you think the researchers' assumptions were just pulled out of their ass, then you're the laughable one.

The study that GAFfers in this thread are obviously asking for is this one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3339766/
Those percentages are hopefully more encouraging.

Um, It doesn't say what percentage of the 279,000 people were actively trying to lose weight.

If you tell any trainers or dietitians that only <1% obese people can lose weight they'll laugh at you because they know better.

You'll also note that the snapshots were taken one year apart. Obesity to healthy isn't a 'less than one year' thing.

Rubbish study, but great for people looking for confirmation bias. I give it an F.

The study period was over 10 years. The reason why the authors chose to display percentages over a 1 year span was because not everyone was followed the same amount of time. Table 2 has the raw data and you can easily tell that the average participant was followed for 5+ years. The authors chose to display the probabilities on an annual basis to standardize the rates, since everyone is followed for a different amount of time. I agree it's a poor way of presenting the data, and the authors IMO should have chosen a solid cohort at one defined time point and followed them to a pre-specified later time point to avoid standardizing the rates over an annual basis, because as you can see from this thread the numbers are easily misinterpreted.

Turns out that most people reporting science aren't, either. Sometimes, even the people writing the conclusions to the studies aren't qualified or turn out to be interpreting the data in a biased way. It's all very murky, especially when it comes to nutrition studies, which are largely epidemiological in nature.

Your last sentence does not make any sense, since anything related to public health policy is based on epidemiology. Infection control, cancer screening, etc.

 

[Skellig Gra]

I did it ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

Yeah me too, how many people are on GAF?

 

[anaron]

Well unless they have a medical condition, they shouldn't have gotten obese/fat in the first place. Should have eaten less in the first place.

you sound like a nice sociopath

 

[Dimmle]

Ah, the use of "lack of empathy" as a buzzword (or phrase, rather) to imply character failings from posters and dismiss their viewpoints or arguments as inferior. One of the worst parts of discussion on OT-GAF.

Uh oh, I've been pegged. Thanks for holding up that mirror.

 

[Cagey]

It was already established in previous large population studies that 50-70% of obese Americans are actively trying to lose weight. Where did I get those numbers? By looking at references 25 and 26 in your laughable quote, Cagey. If you want to laugh at these British authors for basing their assumptions of British population intentionality using data on Americans, I have no qualms with that. If you think 50-70% intentionality is too low and would meaningfully change the outcome of this study's results, I have no qualms with that. If you think the researchers' assumptions were just pulled out of their ass, then you're the laughable one..

There exists an enormous gulf of criticism for a study's assumptions between believing the data that 50-70% of obese Americans are "trying to lose weight" is a bit low and criticism that researchers "pulled the assumption out of their ass", so let's not reduce this to an either/or scenario.

Filling out a survery saying "I'd like to lose weight!" is different than a person attempting to restrict calories for some undefined amount of time and with an undefined level of commitment, which is different than a person increasing exercise for some undefined amount of time and with an undefined level of commitment, which is different than a person both restricting and exercising, etc.

Their citations provided no comfort for me that their assumptions were worthwhile when I poked fun at that passage, and it provides no comfort to me now.

 

[Nocebo]

A lot of people got the "starving kids in Africa" speech from their parents when they didn't finish their food but I have no clue how widespread that is.

Neither fruit nor drinkable water is hard to come by, but thanks to food science a lot of junk is tastier to many palates than fruit, and thanks to subsidies can also be cheaper than fruit. It's really no wonder why people choose the fruit flavored snacks over the actual fruit a lot of times.

Man that is disheartening. That also highlights a mentality problem people seem to have. That eating food should be fun and delicious seems to be the only or at least first and most important requirement for them.

I'm of the opinion that you can learn to like or at least be neutral to most tastes, though. I used to not like drinking water at all but now I almost gag at the thought of drinking lemonade. Just someone switching their drinking habits to drinking water 99% of the time would help a lot I think.

I think culture also plays a big part. A limited small example: eating stuff with high calorie/sugar contents seems to be an essential part of "parties", "holidays" and other celebrations. You're expected to eat cake at someone's birthday party, in fact you almost feel like you are required to. Not only because it supposedly is "the thing that is the norm at a party and no one consciously thinks about if it is a good idea or not they just go along with the flow", it is almost considered rude even to say no to cake or whatever. Furthermore, usually a party is around lunch time and or dinner and there is nothing else to eat anyway. Fruits, vegetables, unsalted nuts, etc are typically not considered party food unless they're toppings for snacks or cake or other "bad" foods.

Having desert (usually very high sugar content stuff) after dinner also seems like it's ingrained in most cultures.

So there is probably a lot of social pressure to eat bad food.

 

[Josh with a J]

you sound like a nice sociopath

I enjoy being one
(I agree with him)

 

[titiklabingapat]

I remember backpacking throughout Europe a few years ago. Finding a fat person was hard.

Tons of walkable cities, ubiquitous mass transit, cycling and bike shares, and modest portion sizes.

We really need to rethink our urban planning.

Yup we do. It takes effort to go to the gym, cooking at home and eating right. Heck, it takes effort to simply walk around for the sake of walking for exercise. But walking in a nice walkable neighborhood and city to run some errands, to go to work or to eat out doesn't feel like 'work' because it's just the way it is.

Most obesity experts know that motivation is probably the biggest obstacle in losing weight and being fit. Why not remove that choice entirely and just make it nice to do everything on foot (and transit)? We have been espousing healthy eating, exercising for the sake of exercising and diet changes for a good part of the last century now and it clearly isn't working for most people. I think it's time to focus on changing the very structural reason why many people are fat and prevent people from getting obese in the first place.

 

[fushi]

For you, that's possible. That's not true for everyone.

I found it quite simple, personally. I went from having no money in my early 20s to having hundreds of thousands in savings today. Completely anecdotal, of course.

My previous girlfriend was a Harvard trained lawyer who happened to be obese, and she certainly didn't enjoy being obese. Self evidently, she found education and job training easier than she found weight loss.

I think you missed my point as I probably did not explain it well.

The opportunities for weight loss are more equal than the opportunities for rising out of poverty. I blame a variety of systemic factors for this and I believe there are far more of those types of hurdles thrown at poor people than overweight/obese people. Hence why I found your analogy to be a bad one, I believe it trivializes poverty in ways it should not be trivialized.

I admit there to being a lot of bias on my part, though, as I don't live in the States and obesity wasn't even really a "thing" here until the past 5 or 10 years. Poverty was and is, though.

But that doesn't make her right and you wrong. I'm not suggesting that school and work are easy and that weight loss is hard; I'm suggesting we should have empathy for all of these people, as everyone struggles with something. Perhaps you find weight loss easy and school difficult; that's fine. Some things you find hard others will find easy, and vice versa. Someone else will struggle to do well in school; still others will struggle with a smoking habit. All of these are systemic problems, in my opinion.

Agreed.

Edit: Thanks, backslashbunny. Explained it better than I could.

 

[Prophet Steve]

I mean... all of those represent significant weight loss.

The last study showed a 15% lower mortality risk among the weight loss group.

Soo... it is possible to lose weight and get healthier is what you're saying?

I think you aren't drawing the correct conclusions from those.

First study lists only an average reduction of 3.2%. Which is about one fifth of the initial weight loss because of poor maintenance. If it is because of a VLED program (I dunno what that is) or if they have lost more than 20 KG at the start there is a 6.6% reduction. Which is pretty good but is also only 29% of what they initially lost.

The second one is showing somewhat better results, but that is with interventions. Even then it is only 50% of the initial weight loss ending up with 3-6 kg or %

The last study shows a decrease in mortality, yes. There is not much of a point in that because we already know people with more weight loss would have a lower mortality rate.

 

[kodecraft]

Fat chance.

First post...nails it.

 

[hockeypuck]

Filling out a survery saying "I'd like to lose weight!" is different than a person attempting to restrict calories for some undefined amount of time and with an undefined level of commitment, which is different than a person increasing exercise for some undefined amount of time and with an undefined level of commitment, which is different than a person both restricting and exercising, etc.

So you're telling me that you didn't bother to look at those citations to see how those numbers were determined.

 

[akileese]

Honestly, preparing food is the hardest part, especially when you work full time. Trying to prep 3 meals a day is a daunting task, even more so when you're doing it for the entire family. It sucks, but it helps immensely. Add in having to exercise regularly during the week and you can see why it's so hard for people. You either need to compromise your wind down time or your sleep, neither of which most people are willing to do. I chose to sleep less and workout more, while ultimately trying (and failing to just sleep more on the weekends), but I also play soccer during the spring and fall so I don't workout nearly as much during those seasons.

Long story short, despite all the compromise, I'm still pretty hefty...not nearly as much as I was say..3 or 4 years ago, but I've found it really rough to break 250, especially when the time it took me to go from 305 to 260 was pretty quick.

 

[Ettie]

These fat threads really move.


I lost over half my body weight. My highest BMI was 52. It wasn't fun, but the real struggle is with keeping it off. I would absolutely eat 7-9000 calories a day if I let myself slip even a little bit.

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

Well unless they have a medical condition, they shouldn't have gotten obese/fat in the first place. Should have eaten less in the first place.

It isn't that simple.

And in the case of childhood obesity, the fault falls completely on the parents. It should almost be considered child abuse.

 

[Azulsky]

1% represent

 

[partyphone]

Long story short, despite all the compromise, I'm still pretty hefty...not nearly as much as I was say..3 or 4 years ago, but I've found it really rough to break 250, especially when the time it took me to go from 305 to 260 was pretty quick.

I had a similar issue and worked with a nutritionist on a meal plan. I'm at 5 meals a day with super strict portion control. I actually had to increase my good intake 2 months ago because my metabolism has improved so much.

and yeah, planning meals is a huge pain in the ass and I'm single living alone.

 

[Nocebo]

Honestly, preparing food is the hardest part, especially when you work full time. Trying to prep 3 meals a day is a daunting task,

Then wouldn't it be easier to skip a meal? Almost sounds like an argument against the difficulty of losing weight.
Here is a tip for breakfast: a banana, an apple, a mandarin orange, some oatmeal or nuts and a bit of milk in a blender. Blend. Drink. Takes 5 minutes maybe. Oh, you're not full? So what? You can eat a slice of bread or two in a couple of hours to stave off the really bad hunger feeling. Rinse repeat for the rest of your life.

I had a similar issue and worked with a nutritionist on a meal plan. I'm at 5 meals a day with super strict portion control. I actually had to increase my good intake 2 months ago because my metabolism has improved so much.

and yeah, planning meals is a huge pain in the ass and I'm single living alone.

Would you mind listing what you eat on a typical day for those 5 meals? It might be helpful to others.

 

[akileese]

I had a similar issue and worked with a nutritionist on a meal plan. I'm at 5 meals a day with super strict portion control. I actually had to increase my good intake 2 months ago because my metabolism has improved so much.

and yeah, planning meals is a huge pain in the ass and I'm single living alone.

My GF and I both work standard 8 hour day jobs + commutes and our daughter is 10. It's even worse during the summer because she's at camp so one of us has to drive on the most construction riddled, crowded highway, to go get her and get home. Usually that means getting back around 630 or so. It's actually easier during the school year when we're all home by 5pm and we can eat at a normal hour as opposed to making dinner at 7pm.

 

[SolarPowered]

These statistics are not even surprising. Bad eating habits passed on from my parents (sit down and finish that giant plate, oh and here is some tasteless salad) combined with bad junk food choices on my part had me perpetually 40-50 pounds overweight all throughout my teenage years.

Even going from a Bodyfat percentage of 32 to 17 over the years can be hard as hell since family sometimes fights you every step of the way (even unknowingly since they won't even learn about calorie counting or macronutrients). Supermarkets are probably the worst part in a way. It feels like a war from the moment you step inside with carbs surrounding you everywhere you go. The modern diet is absolutely freaking loaded with sugar here in America and it's thrown in your face almost everywhere you go. Good luck dealing with our country's shitty portion control too.

Trying to lose weight while managing a family or working makes it a real challenge since there is really strong societal resistance (except for cheering support from useless people most the time) unless you've got people helping you with meal plans, calorie counts and exercise regimens.

Edit: I'll definitely agree that it's very possible given a few years, but this is a real multi year fight for anyone obese because rebounds in weight are just far too common an occurrence.

Edit #2: Misleading study ahoy.

 

[Captcha]

I think we've reached a point where aggressive campaigns along the lines of what they have done for smoking are in order. As some have said, you need to stop people from getting fat in the first place. Things like that healthy school lunch initiative are a good start, but I think it needs to go further. I doubt younger people (especially) are thinking about their mortality with respect to their weight so I think an appeal to vanity is in order.

Much like showing a blackened lung (or what have you) is used to shock people into thinking about if smoking is worth it, I think showing people what happens to you body after massive weight loss might work as an effective deterrent. We rarely discuss what it's like after you've lost the weight, but that should absolutely be part of the discussion. If you need to lose 100+ pounds there is an extremely likely chance that you're going to end up with loose skin and stretch marks. I can tell you from experience after having lost about half my body weight that still being young and essentially having a ruined body is, at times, overwhelmingly depressing. I realize that this could have a negative effect on those who are already fat, but again, I think something like this should be used as a deterrent for those who aren't fat or not very fat yet.

Getting fat was the worst mistake I've ever made and I wasn't even fat my entire life. The far-flung mental consequences are terrible.

 

[Prophet Steve]

Then wouldn't it be easier to skip a meal? Almost sounds like an argument against the difficulty of losing weight.

No, because you turn hungry?

The more alluring alternative is to not take your time to cook and eat something unhealthy.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

No, because you turn hungry?

The more alluring alternative is to not take your time to cook and eat something unhealthy.

Nothing wrong with being hungry.

Really, breakfast and lunch are the fasted meals to prep. Dinner is the hardest. Breakfast can be simple toast, lunch can easily just be a sandwich.

 

[SuperEpicGuy]

People are just getting really soft these days, it's sad. Everyone's offended, too lazy and most are obese/fat. We're basically heading into the wall-e world.

I was obese once so I went to the gym and lost the damn weight. Then when I got it back 2 years later after an all inclusive buffet vacation + mclfurries all day I lost it again.

No, because you turn hungry?

The more alluring alternative is to not take your time to cook and eat something unhealthy.

Skipping breakfast is kinda hard at first but you get used to it. Especially if you drink some coffee. However skipping meals isn't really all that healthy (plus potential muscle mass loss which is unacceptable for me) so I wouldn't recommend it unless you really need to lose some weight.