Knowingly using a product that runs off stolen code isn't much different at all from playing pirated ROM dumps. They are both cases of software copyright infringement.
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How the Retron 5 made an honest man out of me.
- Thread starter Deadpool_X
- Start date
Knowingly using a product that runs off stolen code isn't much different at all from playing pirated ROM dumps. They are both cases of software copyright infringement.
Except one is not the fault of the player. I don't care about the legality of any of it but I do like the convenience of playing it all together without having to hunt down a retrode and buying 3 different plugins. Also my computer runs a lot hotter than the retron 5.
You are not legally playing the games.
Technically, the GPL license violation only covers distribution of source (and in a couple of cases, distribution of binaries under non-commercial license in an obviously commercial context), and so the party at fault is Hyperkin, not the user of the Retron 5. And while dumping the ROM and playing from that is technically infringing, it's enough of a gray area (dumps have to come from the cart in the slot, and the cart has to be present when playing) that I'd give it a pass.
However, Hyperkin needs to come clean and either distribute full source or remove all infringing code. I won't buy any more of their products until they do - it's not fair to profit on the backs of people who develop software under a license that prohibits commercial use.
People care if you admit to doing it now. I think it's probably ok to admit that you once did in the past...
That's good, that's damn good.
The Faceless Master
Member
still not legally playing the game.
Why would you do that?
Member
sörine;132301088 said:
Ah, I forgot about that part after I read the blog post before. Thanks for the correction.
This has not been my experience at all. If there was input lag I highly doubt I would have been able to beat Mike Tyson's Punch Out for instance. Maybe your buddy has a bad setup.
I don't see the point of the Retron 5. Since it's all emulation, I would rather have the convenience of running all my ROM's off of a single SD card. Basically, it's just an expensive emulator that's missing one of the key perks of most other emulators out there.
The only reason I'll put up with real cartridges is for a more authentic experience on real hardware, although even then I prefer the convenience of a flash cart. Best of both worlds, authentic hardware with all my games in one convenient package.
Real game cartridges are a mess. I've been having a hell of a time finding working Star Fox and Yoshi's Island carts. When the SD2SNES supports SuperFX, it will be a godsend to me.
The only reason I'll put up with real cartridges is for a more authentic experience on real hardware, although even then I prefer the convenience of a flash cart. Best of both worlds, authentic hardware with all my games in one convenient package.
Real game cartridges are a mess. I've been having a hell of a time finding working Star Fox and Yoshi's Island carts. When the SD2SNES supports SuperFX, it will be a godsend to me.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
That's honestly a cool feature.. I've been eyeing flash carts to play English-patched games, but if the Retron does it, it's worth considering.
Those aren't known to be particularly defective, or anything. Maybe your SNES is having an issue with the additional pins on S-FX games?
Those aren't known to be particularly defective, or anything. Maybe your SNES is having an issue with the additional pins on S-FX games?
So god-damned close to first post.
As far as the Retron 5 goes, I don't really see the huge issue with emulation of consoles that old, unless you're talking about titles readily available via Steam, eShop, Virtual Console, etc.
Vic Tokai ain't ever republishing their catalog, and that'd be a damned shame just for the loss of Clash at Demonhead, Golgo 13, and Aighina's Prophecy.
I mean, give me a copy I can buy legally any place and I'll plunk down the cash (got a few Genesis games on Steam and my 3DS is full of classic NES titles), but I highly doubt you can successfully argue that emulating a copy of Clash at Demonhead harms anyone involved in the creation of the game. Maybe the poor fool who's trying to figure that game's final puzzle out.
CosmicQueso
Member
Maybe. But I legally bought the Retron 5 and I legally bought the carts. So no, it's not really the same thing at all.
The legal responsibility is on the Retron people, not on me as a customer.
Downloading a pirated ROM dump would be on the downloader.
Not my experience at all, either.
I experienced delay as well, though I fear my TV was the problem...
BUT, while my PC had a little delay, the Retron 5 had an even more noticeable one, I just couldn't deal with it.
C'mon man, anyway, I dare the police to come and arrest me.
''Sir, you're under arrest for dumping you're own copies of your own games on your PC for your own personal use. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.''
At least we're not having this debate in one of my console appreciation/emulation thread, it was derailing the Saturn one back then.
C'mon man, anyway, I dare the police to come and arrest me.
''Sir, you're under arrest for dumping you're own copies of your own games on your PC for your own personal use. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.''
At least we're not having this debate in one of my console appreciation/emulation thread, it was derailing the Saturn one back then.
...it's not legal because the retron 5 is using stolen code in violation of the GPL.
That's Hyperkin's problem with legality, not the end user's. The end user is technically one of the injured parties due to Hyperkin's license violations due to the nature and intent of the GPL (especially GPL v3).
Except this is a topic about being an "honest man." There is nothing honest about knowingly using stolen software.
Oops, my bad for the misunderstanding, then. ^^'
Tanooki_Suit_Up
Neo Member
If using a product that has an intellectual property dispute with another company was a crime, then at different times and in different countries, using certain Samsung or Apple products would be illegal. The law doesn't work that way. There's a clear argument for the unethical nature of supporting a company financially (with your purchase) that you believe is making illegal use of code, but that illegality doesn't spread to the buyer. It's not like driving a stolen car, it's a product manufactured and sold by a large company, and the law isn't going to persecute buyers for the potentially fraudulent actions of that company. If we were interested in screwing consumers regardless of the culpability of manufacturers, things like "consumer protection boards" would not exist.
Does anyone know if there's an actual case being made against the manufacturer? If none has been made yet, that suggests they might be having a hard time finding demonstrable evidence supporting the purported owners of the code.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
You don't get that people want to play the games legally as opposed to illegally like you just admitted to doing?
I was directly replying to your assertion it wasn't legal (and your earlier assertion that the OP wasn't legally playing the games). Like I said, the legality of the GPL violations is Hyperkin's problem.
As to the "honest man", the OP purchased his Retron 5 long before any of the license violations were made known, and an honest, forgiving person could give Hyperkin the benefit of the doubt that they'll make good on their errors (or at least that the EFF will force them to, lol). Or an honest, perhaps less forgiving person could just wait for a group to hack the stupid thing so end users can install software properly without violating the licenses.
When a game is nearly two decades old and has no official support or rerelease?
No I do not.
After a set period of time, I feel absolutely no "guilt" associated with this sort of illegal playing of games. I'd love to have paid Squaresoft money for the game back in the day. I'd love to pay them for a copy now.
But legally, the only way I can buy a copy is to hunt down an eBay seller and buy it that way, rip it to my computer, and then apply the English translation patch. Doing so, functionally, impacts Square-Enix's profits no more or less than just downloading a ROM and applying the patch.
So why should I give a damn about what is technically legal, here? The only people who can profit are collectors, who're different from enthusiasts in that they care about the experience of playing the game itself versus the actual owning of a physical copy (for which actual, legal re-releases of older titles only negligibly effects the market price of original copies, so don't try to play the hurt collector here).
There is no moral justification for claiming that emulation of decades-old titles which aren't modernly available is wrong. There is a legal one, sure, but no moral justification, and I'd rate the legal ramifications somewhere around how seriously I'd rate god-damned jaywalking in the pantheon of criminal activity you can perform.
Illegal does not mean "OMG, you should never do it and how dare you do it no matter the circumstances!"
It's silly to pretend otherwise.
The_Afroman
Member
And just like that.. Retron5 is noting but an emulation machine that loads roms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXx6VRBBl8Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXx6VRBBl8Y
Bomber Bob
Banned
Retron 5 is a scam, just use your pc
Joseph Merrick
Member
I have a few pirated roms to legally sell you
uncleslappy
nethack is my favorite dark souls clone
If only honest men had made the Ret...ah...nevermind.
ephemeral garbage
Member
So if you told a buddy "hey, download every SNES rom ever made and put them on a CD, and I'll give you a quarter for it," you're in the clear?
If Square-Enix decided to finally translate and release Seiken Densetsu 3 in the West, some sales would likely be lost because of the plethora of impatient people who downloaded and patched the ROM years ago (or recently), and have already played through it.
If somehow everyone had been patient, or there were a way to actually have prevented people from doing that, I imagine there would be a more frothing demand for the release of the game, and sales would be higher.
Maybe that's just conjecture, but it seems like a reasonable way that Square-Enix's potential profits could be functionally impacted by various individuals downloading and playing the game for free. One might think: but if Square-Enix will never translate the game anyway, then it causes no impact. Well, that might be true, but there's no way to know that in advance, and, in fact, since Square-Enix knows that tons of people have already downloaded and played it, that might impact any decisions they have regarding translating it and releasing it eventually.
I'm not really invested in convincing you, or anything, and, personally, I don't care much if people want to download those older games to save the hassle, but I just want to point out that the act isn't as morally unambiguous as you make it out to be.
I'd also like to acknowledge that it's actually possible that all of the people who have downloaded and played the game may have a positive impact on Square-Enix's profits, if they decided to translate and release the game. Positive word of mouth about the game from people who played it years ago, and consider it a classic, could boost sales. We don't really know whether or not this or the previously stated alternative would be the case, however.
Starwolf_UK
Member
No, the Retron 5 can not re-write read only memory.
How it works is it dumps the game to RAM, then loads that to an emulator.
I heard something about them removing the IPS patching though (would be nice to see it extended to other formats, ips is rather limited).
runnin_blue
Banned
The snes pirating division of the FBI is on the case, don't worry.
Jump'N'Shoot Man
Neo Member
I was on the fence for a while with the Retron 5, having read a lot of complaints about the build quality of the first batch of consoles back in July 2014.
I recently decided to buy one when new stock became available as I don't have any of my old consoles modified to display a decent image on my flat screen TV, and cannot afford a framemeister or similar upscaler.
When it turned up yesterday I have to say I was very impressed. The image quality and sound quality is just fantastic. It played all the games I threw at it, including repo carts like Earthbound Zero and Little Samson. The sound emulation for the NES and the Megadrive was perfect, which hasn't been the case on a lot of the other clone systems I've brought.
The cart slots are a bit tight but it appears that they may have addressed the vice like grip the first batch had, so the games aren't as difficult to insert or remove and there is less chance of damage.
Overall a great system. I still have to test if they have fixed the importing and exporting of save games to cart but other than that its been great.
Anyone got any advise on how to apply language patches to Japanese games? Thanks.
I recently decided to buy one when new stock became available as I don't have any of my old consoles modified to display a decent image on my flat screen TV, and cannot afford a framemeister or similar upscaler.
When it turned up yesterday I have to say I was very impressed. The image quality and sound quality is just fantastic. It played all the games I threw at it, including repo carts like Earthbound Zero and Little Samson. The sound emulation for the NES and the Megadrive was perfect, which hasn't been the case on a lot of the other clone systems I've brought.
The cart slots are a bit tight but it appears that they may have addressed the vice like grip the first batch had, so the games aren't as difficult to insert or remove and there is less chance of damage.
Overall a great system. I still have to test if they have fixed the importing and exporting of save games to cart but other than that its been great.
Anyone got any advise on how to apply language patches to Japanese games? Thanks.
Phat Michael
Banned
ok i just ordered a retron 5 as i dont want to unbox my genesis/SNES/ etc as i prefer to keep them sealed and locked up but still want to play some of my games.
Does anyone know if you can use a 32X in the genesis slot of the Retron 5? has anyone tried this? i dont think i would be able to connect my Mega CD to it, but i should be able to just plug the 32X in and play my 32X games right?
Does anyone know if you can use a 32X in the genesis slot of the Retron 5? has anyone tried this? i dont think i would be able to connect my Mega CD to it, but i should be able to just plug the 32X in and play my 32X games right?
NoFaceNico
Member
No, it won't because the 32X module has an AV input (from the Genesis) and its own output. You will not be able to connect the Genesis output to the 32X. I think I also heard that it won't work because it doesn't fit.
Also as far as I can tell, with the exception of the Power Base Converter, no "pass through" devices work on the Retron. So no Super Gameboy, no Game Genie, no Sonic 3 & Knuckles. It will recognize the devices but won't recognize anything inserted in them.
I made a comparison video with the Retron 5 recently. I'd say you're better off keeping the Retron 5 sealed, send it back, get your money and wait for the RetroPi or buy a Super Retro Trio.
Also as far as I can tell, with the exception of the Power Base Converter, no "pass through" devices work on the Retron. So no Super Gameboy, no Game Genie, no Sonic 3 & Knuckles. It will recognize the devices but won't recognize anything inserted in them.
I made a comparison video with the Retron 5 recently. I'd say you're better off keeping the Retron 5 sealed, send it back, get your money and wait for the RetroPi or buy a Super Retro Trio.
The 32X works with the Retrode, and it would work with the Retron 5 had they stolen a better emulator. You don't even need to plug it in or provide power to it. This is because the 32X merely acts as passive wiring to connect certain pins of a 32X cartidge to relevant lines that needed to run to the Genesis to do cartridge addressing and things of that sort. To the genesis, a 32X cart looks no different than a Genesis cart.
The problem is that the emulator they've stolen, Genesis Plus GX, doesn't support 32X games. Otherwise, like using a retrode, it would be totally possible to plug in a dummy 32X and play it. The main reason you can't just forego that and actually plug a 32X cartridge directly into a retrode is because the carts are physically shaped differently, which they did to prevent kids from plugging 32X carts into the genesis directly.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
haha. Truth.
Phat Michael
Banned
cheers for the explanations. Cant wait for mine to arrive. Ive got about 10 SNES games and 20 Genesis games ive been waiting to play for ages and now i can connect these to my HDTV.
gingerbeardman
Member
Phat Michael
Banned
Another question - should i plug the Retron 5 into my AVR or directly into the tv? i know it wont do 5.1 or anything but is there any reason to plug it in via my AVR's HDMI - will i be able to use my stereo surround sound speakers at least? or should i just go with the shitty TV speakers?
For the people with it - are you using your SNES / Megadrive controllers or the bluetooth one it comes with?
For the people with it - are you using your SNES / Megadrive controllers or the bluetooth one it comes with?
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Roms vs buying used carts off ebay and the like to play on a Retron, what exactly is the difference from a morality standpoint? You think you're doing the creators some kind of favor?
feint_ruled
Member
Freely available ROMs will hamper any attempts the real rights holders might make to sell legitimate emulations of their game (physical carts are limited in number at least).
It's funny - you get people arguing that because games are no longer available it is morally ok to download ROMs. You seem to be arguing the opposite!
NoFaceNico
Member
Oh... wow. I'm guessing you don't know a lot about this console.
Let's just say you're in for quite a surprise...
Meh, we offered our advice. What more can we do.
There are plenty of ways to emulate 100% legally. The alternatives I suggested to him were the SR3 and upcomming RetroPi. Both play your original carts and use 100% legal emulation.
It's nice to know the side you argue for has no defense when you resort to attacking the users to shift focus away from the real issue. Retro gamers have plenty of completely legal emulation alternatives to chose from, but Hyperkin made their choice to go the illegal route. Deal with it. They're scum, their product is shit and always will be.
TheSlySoul
Member
I definitely bought it for the IPS function as well. Got a cart of Live-A-Live plugged in.
Although if you have the smarts, you could make a reproduction cart with the IPS already attached.
Although if you have the smarts, you could make a reproduction cart with the IPS already attached.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
You're correct about the Super Gameboy and Game Genie, but Sonic 3 connected to Sonic & Knuckles definitely does work.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
You didn't actually answer my question here. What's the difference from a morality standpoint between playing a Rom and hitting up Ebay or a Yardsale? (spoiler: if you aren't supporting the creators in any way, there actually isn't one. The only real difference is that you prefer a physical copy of the game and probably some false sense of actually being supportive in some weird way)
Also, Roms have been "freely" available forever, easiest thing in the world to download and setup, with pretty much zero worries about any kind of penalty and at one point was a huge thing(no idea these days, don't partake), and yet it hasn't hampered collectors(bigger and more expensive than ever) nor has it hampered something like the overpriced Virtual Console(which happened long after the emulator boom).
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Edit: ugh, meant to hit edit and made a double post.
Piston Hyundai
Member
jesus, why don't you mention it's stolen code some more