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Early Action-RPGs

L Thammy

Member
It seems like a common sentiment nowadays is that turn-based RPGs are old-fashioned and that action RPGs are the new standard. Of course, it isn't just recently that people have had the idea for that sort of gameplay. There have been action RPGs since at least the NES; back when turn-based RPGs were still the standard. Let's talk about some of the action RPGs that have come out on, say, the PS1 and earlier systems.

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Kouryuu Densetsu Villgust Gaiden

This is actually the second game in the Villgust franchise. The first game was a standard Dragon Quest type game for the Super Famicom. I'm not sure why they went back a console generation, but whatever. The SNES one was Winkysoft, who made the earlier Super Robot Wars games, whereas this one is by TOSE, who made everything ever without you knowing about it. Even Splatoon. There are also a Villgust OVA anime, but since they came out at around the same time, I'm not really sure what's based on what.

The story is some generic crap that I can't be bothered to remember. There's a goddess and she wants you to do some stuff. I dunno. I think the anime was just some ecchi crap. What's more important is that the main character, Murobo, is a giant wolfman with Centurion armour and a poleaxe. That is badass. You might want to complain about that he's a furry, but this came out at the time of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Biker Mice from Mars, and Street Sharks. Would you play a Street Sharks RPG? I sure as hell would.


The other characters aren't as interesting. There are some more animal people, but they're anime style, where they're humans with animal ears and maybe a tail. Murobo's the tank, having high attack and defense and never learning any magic. Lucia the catgirl is the balanced one. There's also another catgirl, Sylvie, who is vaguely similar. Lemmy is the healer, so she's also the weakest. Bostoph the thief uses a boomerang, so he's the ranged fighter. Lita is another balanced character with better magic.

Anyway, onto the interesting part. The gameplay. Whenever you get into a random battle or boss fight, your enemies will all appear on a pie chart. Your characters take turns handling one slice at a time. Before you get into the combat, you have a menu, which lets you rearrange the order of your characters or try to run away. There's also an autobattle option, which goes into a turn-based mode.


When you're actually fighting, it's like Zelda 2 in a fixed arena. The battle lasts until either you or your enemies are all dead. You really only have two physical attacks. There's your basic slash, which you can do while crouching or in the air, and there's the aerial stomp attack. Murobo and Lita have slightly better range than Sylvie or Lemmy; they don't need to crouch to hit smaller enemies.

You can also pop open a menu during battle to equip weapons and healing items. You have to hit an enemy to activate a healing item, so if you're careless, it's entirely possible that you'll walk into them instead and die when you're trying to save yourself with a potion. Magic is activated by holding up and hitting the attack button. There are no buffs, only healing spells and attacks. Attacks take the form of projectiles or smart bomb type moves that hit the whole screen.


Enemies damage you on contact like most platformers. Some will just charge you, but a lot of them use projectiles or other attacks. There are a ton of enemy types, and even ones that have the same graphics have somewhat different patterns. Different areas in the game also have different platforms, which is sometimes useful for avoiding enemy attacks or getting to flying enemies.

So, basically, Villgust is a neat game that is often overlooked. I like to think of it as sort of the ancestor of the Tales series (and therefore the only Tales game I like). It's really short for a NES RPG, though. You can beat it in just a few hours. It's also pretty linear and doesn't really do anything interesting on the RPG side. Still, I wonder how games like Villgust would have done in the American NES market. Would the hybrid gameplay help them break into a market that still hadn't developed a taste for RPGs?


Anyway, you can see a full playthrough of it (no commentary) here.
 
This topic needs an injection of Wonderboy/Monster World. And Ys. And Maze of Galious, which inspired La Mulana. And Golvellius: Valley of Doom.
 
By the way, I'm hoping someone will post about Radia Senki. I know pretty much nothing about it except that it's an action RPG which traveled back in time and landed on the Famicom.
 
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Crystalis / Godslayer: Sonata of the Far-away Sky

Great NES action-rpg w/ fast-paced combat reminiscent of later Ys titles. By SNK.
 
Does A Link to the Past not count? (It doesn't have the deep RPG systems that other games did have, but I think it should be counted).

But I think a really underrated and underplayed game is: Terranigma

terranigma_boxfront.jpg


I think SoulBlazer/Illusion of Gaia also fits into this category.
 
Those early Ys games man, they were pretty nuts.

With such a big time frame to work with, it's hard to define early, but yeah, Ys 1 and 2 in 1987-1988 respectively were pretty damned awesome. The bump system was a cool idea and worked for the PCs that they were developed for, you didn't really need a joystick to play and it worked well.

Here is some video of the very first version of Ys and Ys II

Ys - PC-88
Ys II - PC-88

They weren't Falcom's first ARPGs though, we had:

Dragon Slayer
Dragon Slayer 2 - Xanadu

Xanadu held the record for the best selling computer game in Japan for a very long time.

Another early ARPG was Hydlide not from Falcom, but still important:

Hydlide PC-88
 
don't know if it count's but Alundra on ps1 is a great action adventure game with some RPG element and i consider it the best legend of Zelda Clone
 
Does A Link to the Past not count? (It doesn't have the deep RPG systems that other games did have, but I think it should be counted).

But I think a really underrated and underplayed game is: Terranigma

terranigma_boxfront.jpg


I think SoulBlazer/Illusion of Gaia also fits into this category.


Holds up well today as well :)
 
Going with the spirit of this thread, someone needs to make a Secrets of Grindea OT since it just launched on Early Access. It's the best Secret of Mana since Seiken Densetsu 3, and I cannot recommend it enough to absolutely anyone who would decide to click on this thread.
 
Maybe I'm old, but I certainly wouldn't consider anything on SNES/Genesis an "early" action RPG. Most definitely not Alundra on PSX. We might as well start naming PS3 games.

To answer the question, the Seiken Densetsu games on Gameboy come to mind.

Also, I am interested in the point about people thinking that turn based battle systems were due to system constraints and are therefore "dated" (I shudder using that term). It could be wrong, but I always assumed it was a stylistic choice from the beginning. Falcom released the first Ys game back in 1987 and there were likely other games before that time. I remember hating the NES Final Fantasy when I was a kid because I preferred other, more action-packed games. Now my opinion has changed.
 
Does A Link to the Past not count? (It doesn't have the deep RPG systems that other games did have, but I think it should be counted).

But I think a really underrated and underplayed game is: Terranigma

terranigma_boxfront.jpg


I think SoulBlazer/Illusion of Gaia also fits into this category.

Illusion of Gaia is one of my favorite action rpgs of all time. I Love that game!
 
Maybe I'm old, but I certainly wouldn't consider anything on SNES/Genesis an "early" action RPG. Most definitely not Alundra on PSX. We might as well start naming PS3 games.

To answer the question, the Seiken Densetsu games on Gameboy come to mind.

Also, I am interested in the point about people thinking that turn based battle systems were due to system constraints and are therefore "dated" (I shudder using that term). It could be wrong, but I always assumed it was a stylistic choice from the beginning. Falcom released the first Ys game back in 1987 and there were likely other games before that time. I remember hating the NES Final Fantasy when I was a kid because I preferred other, more action-packed games. Now my opinion has changed.

Honestly, I'm sort of inclined to agree with you, but I wasn't really sure what period to consider "early". I'm not entirely sure when exactly the first action-RPG is, and it's especially bad considering that the genre is vague. A lot of the examples posted here resemble Zelda, and I'm the type that favours "adventure" or "action-adventure" rather than "action RPG" for those sort of games. I know that there's been a lot of debate on how to classify Zelda.

The goal of this thread was to highlight action RPGs that existed before the idea that turn-based is outdated was prevalent. My thinking is that the PS1 had Final Fantasy VII, which is the last game to draw a huge new audience to turn-based RPGs. So that's the last point where turn-based RPGs could still be seen as new and fresh. For a lot of Final Fantasy VII's audience, it was the first turn-based RPG they played, so how could it be outdated already?
 
Youngsters today have a really really really limited knowledge...

It's not totally their fault though, sites and forums always talk about sega, nintendo, sony and ms consoles and their jrpgs like everything else didn't exist, i wonder how many people really know anything about c64, amiga etc and their games...
 
Youngsters today have a really really really limited knowledge...

It's not totally their fault though, sites and forums always talk about consoles and their jrpgs like everything else didn't exist, i wonder how many people really know anything about c64, amiga etc and their games...

I don't think there is much or any JRPG on those consoles .
 
Youngsters today have a really really really limited knowledge...

It's not totally their fault though, sites and forums always talk about sega, nintendo, sony and ms consoles and their jrpgs like everything else didn't exist, i wonder how many people really know anything about c64, amiga etc and their games...
All I can think of is Hydlide
 
Turn based rpg's predate the NES though. Pen and paper RPG's were turn based and inspired the ones developed for console.
 
What i was trying to say is that on older computers almost everything was real time, for example i had a c64 and an amiga but only when i passed to consoles i had a very big exposure to turn based rpgs.

You know, if you wanted more people to know about action RPGs for the Amiga, there's a way you could fix that.

Turn based rpg's predate the NES though. Pen and paper RPG's were turn based and inspired the ones developed for console.

More directly, I'd say that pen and paper RPGs influenced mainframe computer RPGs (they actually started appearing right after Dungeons & Dragons first did) and computer RPGs went on to inspire console RPGs. For a big example, the first Dragon Quest is pretty much an attempt at making Ultima on the Famicom. Not sure what that has to do with this thread though?
 
You know, if you wanted more people to know about action RPGs for the Amiga, there's a way you could fix that.

My intention was not to make people know about this or that game for computer x or y, but to point that today people is too focused on nintendo, sega, final fantasy etc while ignoring all the rest.

Do you want some real time amiga rpgs? In this video you can see 10 rpgs(imo not all the best but whatever), of them only ambermoon has turn based combat IIRC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akyHOSJU4BA

To think that today's dungeon crawlers have static enemies lol.
 
More directly, I'd say that pen and paper RPGs influenced mainframe computer RPGs (they actually started appearing right after Dungeons & Dragons first did) and computer RPGs went on to inspire console RPGs. For a big example, the first Dragon Quest is pretty much an attempt at making Ultima on the Famicom. Not sure what that has to do with this thread though?

Sorry i misinterpreted the purpose of your thread. Usually when people bring this up they are trying to make some sort of statement against AAA RPG's making a shift towards action based systems. The line of thinking goes that action based systems are as old as turn based systems therefore if turn based systems are outdated so are action based systems. This is obviously flawed logic as the term outdated in that context refers to obsolescence and not how old something is. After rereading your post, it appears you intended this thread to serve as more of an appreciation topic than any sort of statement about modern games and you are clearly more knowledgeable on the subject than the usual stick in the mud posters. I apologize if this post or the previous one derail your discussion.
 
I haven't played any of these mentioned in the thread, but my first Action RPG was Threads of Fate (Dewprism) for the PS1.

It has some flaws in the combat, but I did enjoy the story and I found it unique to play the campaign as two different characters. You get a different playstyle and some parts of the story change depending on who you play. The ending of the game really hinted at a sequel and we still never got it. I doubt we ever will. I can see a lot of improvements being made to the gameplay in this one to truly make it shine.

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Sorry i misinterpreted the purpose of your thread. Usually when people bring this up they are trying to make some sort of statement against AAA RPG's making a shift towards action based systems. The line of thinking goes that action based systems are as old as turn based systems therefore if turn based systems are outdated so are action based systems. This is obviously flawed logic as the term outdated in that context refers to obsolescence and not how old something is. After rereading your post, it appears you intended this thread to serve as more of an appreciation topic than any sort of statement about modern games and you are clearly more knowledgeable on the subject than the usual stick in the mud posters. I apologize if this post or the previous one derail your discussion.

No worries. Looking at it again, I had actually made a pretty big typo in the OP.

To add to the thread, the Quest for Glory games are action RPGs as much as adventure games. You had character classes, stats that could be increased and trained, and battles where you dodged attacks and exploited openings. There were even multiple solutions to puzzles based on your class. King's Quest has nothing on Quest for Glory.

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By the way, I'm hoping someone will post about Radia Senki. I know pretty much nothing about it except that it's an action RPG which traveled back in time and landed on the Famicom.

Played through it a couple times, one of the more memorable experience on the system for jrpgs.
 
It's interesting that this thread does not contain mention of probably the single most important action-RPG ever:

d12.jpg

It's Diablo, by the way, if anyone doesn't know.

Diablo essentially invented the most widespread subgenre of action RPGs and was so much faster than the other games in the genre -- both in terms of gameplay and in long-term decision making, with most of the game being randomly generated -- at the time that the genre was irreversably changed in its wake. Really, having a thread about early action RPGs without mentioning Diablo is like a thread about influential platformers without Super Mario Bros.

If you just look at the PC there really aren't too many examples of action-RPGs before Diablo but the ones that exist are fairly notable.

Dungeon Master is a game that, if you looked at it only through screenshots, you may not be aware that it is one of the original action RPGs:
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Dungeon Master took the original conception of dungeon crawling (a la Ultima, Wizardry and especially Might & Magic) and gave you the ability to attack and move in real-time, leading to a bizarre and frantic style of gameplay where you dance around your opponents swinging at them wildly. It seems almost like a parody of a traditional dungeon crawler, since you and your opponents are still wandering around, clumped together in groups, on a grid.

If you've never played Dungeon Master, it's really worth checking out and surprisingly easy to play today for a game originally released on the Atari ST. There are also games that play very similarly (Legend of Grimrock is a modern example) that are also quite fun and contain handy interface improvements, but the original maintains a very real fanbase.

Another big one that comes to mind is Ultima Underworld, but UU is only "action" in that the world is entirely real-time and your reaction times technically have an effect on the outcome.

Another action RPG that is perhaps less "important" than the previous two games I mentioned (but probably my favorite out of the three) is Might and Magic VI.

mm6-05.jpg

Might and Magic VI is a real-time game that broke the tradition of a long string of turn-based titles within its series; it replaced traditional party combat with a more modern version of the type seen in Dungeon Master, where you can move freely and attacks operate on a delay system instead of strictly regimented turns.

What makes the game so fun is that it delivers all of the usual Might and Magic stuff -- a world where you can do whatever you want pretty much whenever you want, a truly staggering amount of different items to use and quests to do, and a world tenously placed between the past and very far in the future -- but it adds on top of that thousands upon thousands of enemies to fight. By the end, Might and Magic VI plays a lot like what Doom would be like if you were fighting dragons instead of imps.
 
Subbed. Keeping an eye out for anything missed or something I may have glossed over.

Also people should play Faxanadu.
 
Youngsters today have a really really really limited knowledge...

It's not totally their fault though, sites and forums always talk about sega, nintendo, sony and ms consoles and their jrpgs like everything else didn't exist, i wonder how many people really know anything about c64, amiga etc and their games...

Maybe enlighten these "youngsters"?

/edit: ah you addressed it already, I had the thread open from a while back and didn't see any new replies.
 
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Released in 1991 by KEMCO, could be considered a launch window title for the SNES in NA.

Its aged pretty poorly.

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Goemon counts as an ARPG right?

1991 for the Super Famicom, 1992 for the Super Nintendo.
 

Nobody else seems to know about Faria on the NES, which is definitely an action RPG in the strictest sense. Top-down traditional RPG gameplay, but all the battle screens are real time, but still involve HP and level ups like a traditional RPG. Developed by Game Arts of Lunar and Grandia fame. Worth everyone's time to check out.
 
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain PS1/PC & the Wonderboys are my faves.

Popful Mail is said to be really good although I've yet to play it myself. Which version would others recommend?
 
Nobody else seems to know about Faria on the NES, which is definitely an action RPG in the strictest sense. Top-down traditional RPG gameplay, but all the battle screens are real time, but still involve HP and level ups like a traditional RPG. Developed by Game Arts of Lunar and Grandia fame. Worth everyone's time to check out.

*Looks up online prices*

lol of course...but it'll definitely be going on my list. All the retro family threads here, and i'm surprised this is the first time I've heard of this.

Chronicles of Radia War by Tecmo is sorta like that too. Has a fan translation, and an awesome soundtrack.
 
I don't think there is much or any JRPG on those consoles .

There are, however, action rpgs on commodore machines. Dragonstone on the amiga, as an example. And things like knight n grail on the c64.

Popful Mail is said to be really good although I've yet to play it myself. Which version would others recommend?

Without a doubt the sega cd version, especially since you like wonderboy
 
It's interesting that this thread does not contain mention of probably the single most important action-RPG ever:

d12.jpg

It's Diablo, by the way, if anyone doesn't know.

Diablo essentially invented the most widespread subgenre of action RPGs and was so much faster than the other games in the genre -- both in terms of gameplay and in long-term decision making, with most of the game being randomly generated -- at the time that the genre was irreversably changed in its wake. Really, having a thread about early action RPGs without mentioning Diablo is like a thread about influential platformers without Super Mario Bros.

If you just look at the PC there really aren't too many examples of action-RPGs before Diablo but the ones that exist are fairly notable.

It's kinda funny because Diablo 1 is really just a simplified roguelike that runs in real time. In fact the original concept for it was to make a roguelike with a modern presentation.
 
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