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HTC doesn't seem to be doing well, how will it affect the Vive?

A

ashecitism

Member
update:

October 30: HTC will no longer give earnings guidance for future quarters

--

Saw these on twitter and reddit. Also remember not so long ago couple of devs RTing articles and graphs about record losses (or something) and wondering about the future of the Vive.

Aug 7: HTC shares crashed so far they had to be halted

Aug 10: HTC Trading Below Cash Leaves Smartphone Brand With No Value

Not an expert in these things and none of the articles mentione the Vive, so dunno. This could also fit in the OT, but without the Vive mention.

Just to clear this up, this isn't about if Valve's VR project is in danger. They own Lighthouse and SteamVR and Gabe said to expect other SteamVR headsets in the future.
 
K

kami_sama

Member
spekkeh said:
Damn, Qualcomm fucked HTC good. I'm sad, the HTC One M7 was my favorite phone ever.
Click to expand...

It wasn't the 810. Apart from the M9 there's more phones using it.
It was the horrendous design that fucked them over. I really hope they can resurface with a better product.
 
T

Toki767

Member
ashecitism said:
What did they do?
Click to expand...

The Snapdragon 810 had overheating issues. Though I don't know that it effected HTC much.

HTC going down wasn't entirely on Qualcomm though. The One series of phones has been stale for a couple years now and they've never really fixed the problems that it had after 3 iterations.
 
N

Nzyme32

Member
There were rumours that Asus were think of buying them; I think HTC dismissed them, but an acquisition by someone seems like a possibility at this point. If nothing happens though, I'd guess Valve would have to purchase the relevant assets / patents and such while other competitors take advantage and do the same.

Devilgunman said:
Such a shame. I really like HTC phone but they are way overpriced.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's a mix of their products both being quite good but not good enough, so in the price ranges they put things at, they seem doomed to failure vs the competition
 
S

spekkeh

Banned
kami_sama said:
It wasn't the 810. Apart from the M9 there's more phones using it.
It was the horrendous design that fucked them over. I really hope they can resurface with a better product.
Click to expand...

Yes like the Xperia Z4 that Sony didn't even bother releasing outside of Japan because of how horrible the chip performed. I was really done with Samsung and never wanted to go back. But the M9 had to be downclocked so badly to prevent it from burning up that it actually performed worse than the M8 in many tests. You can't pay premium money for a phone that performs worse than an old one, not when you want to compete with the highest end. Only Apple can pull off something that outrageous, and then Samsung absolutely killed it with their proprietary processor this year. My hands were tied, I had to buy another shitty Samsung.

(also horrendous designs, wattttt)
 
L

LamerDeluxe

Member
The HTC One M7 is a great phone, but if I would 'upgrade' to the M9 I would lose optical camera stabilization and HD microphones, the CPU wouldn't be faster because of excessive throttling (I tried Zaccaria pinball on the M9 and it was slower than on my M7) and get a camera that is less light sensitive but has weird color problems.

The display was said to be bad quality, but it looked about the same as the one in my M7 which was said to be the best of its generation.
 
F

family_guy

Member
It's a shame what happened to them. They fell off after the M7. They make great software. I think they investment in the ultrapixel camera never paid off.
 
K

kami_sama

Member
spekkeh said:
Yes like the Xperia Z4 that Sony didn't even bother releasing outside of Japan because of how horrible the chip performed. I was really done with Samsung and never wanted to go back. But the M9 had to be downclocked so badly to prevent it from burning up that it actually performed worse than the M8 in many tests. You can't pay premium money for a phone that performs worse than an old one, not when you want to compete with the highest end. Only Apple can pull off something that outrageous, and then Samsung absolutely killed it with their proprietary processor this year. My hands were tied, I had to buy another shitty Samsung.

(also horrendous designs, wattttt)
Click to expand...

Sorry, but after the M7, a great phone I must say, the M9 is horrendous and just a the same as previous years.
Look at the M9 and tell me, why use software keys if you have a very large portion of glass that you could use for capacitive buttons. And what's worse, they put the HTC logo in the middle of it.
 
C

CrAzY FiNgErS

Member
Valves deal with HTC has no bearing on the tech that Valve already had before the two worked together. This deal is like Google hiring third party partners for there Nexus brand. Valve already said multiple third parties will eventually be making Valves version/vision of VR.
 
B

Bsigg12

Member
CrAzY FiNgErS said:
Valves deal with HTC had no barring on the tech that Valve already had before the two worked together. This deal is like Google hiring third party partners for there Nexus brand. Valve already said multiple third parties will eventually be making Valves version/vision of VR.
Click to expand...

Yea but their flagship headset is potentially facing issues depending on how HTC handles this over the next couple months. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the next 3-4 months especially with the Vive allegedly still coming this year.
 
C

cyress8

Banned
Sad news to hear. My first smart phone was a HTC Hero. It started the addiction on buying faster smart phones every year. (Shit was slow as molasses.)
 
A

aesupreme1

Member
I have bought HTC smartphones exclusively since I started using them. I have had none of the issues that people seem to be critical of with their phones. I love my HTC One M9.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
Bsigg12 said:
Yea but their flagship headset is potentially facing issues depending on how HTC handles this over the next couple months. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out over the next 3-4 months especially with the Vive allegedly still coming this year.
Click to expand...

The situation probably isn't as fucked to mess with its launch? I mean that's all locked down at this point, right? So, rather this will have long-term effects. Or? Also, what if the Vive ends up being very successful? How much can that help?
 
K

Kuga

Member
ashecitism said:
The situation probably isn't as fucked to mess with its launch? I mean that's all locked down at this point, right? So, rather this will have long-term effects. Or? Also, what if the Vive ends up being very successful? How much can that help?
Click to expand...

HTC has $1.5 billion cash on hand. Short-term liquidity probably won't be an issue. The company will probably be looking for suitors to acquire HTC or commit to another form of drastic restructuring in the years to come.
 
B

Bsigg12

Member
ashecitism said:
The situation probably isn't as fucked to mess with its launch? I mean that's all locked down at this point, right? So, rather this will have long-term effects. Or? Also, what if the Vive ends up being very successful? How much can that help?
Click to expand...

I would think HTC would want to fulfill that partnership but it's not like VR this early is going to be a huge revenue driver. They have said multiple times it is coming this year and they have their event coming up so I at least expect them to get verison 1 out the door. If they continue after that is up in the air. It would be interesting to see how much HTC is putting behind Vive development and production.
 
L

Le-mo

Member
Wow, I had no idea they were doing this bad. I have an M8 and it is the best phone I have ever owned so far.
 
N

neogaffer1

Banned
Here's a basic run-down for those who may not know why HTC completely collapsed this year:

  • Three years ago, HTC started to flounder as sales of its flagships started to fall as Samsung's phones started to dominate the market. Previously, HTC was used to US carrier demands and typically created devices based on what carriers wanted, and then brought those devices abroad, alongside making other devices that never saw the US market. However, Samsung changed that by forcing carriers to allow it to adopt the Apple style of device production, where one "hero" device was the same across all carriers and all over the world. HTC saw this and realized they needed to adapt to a changing market. They introduced the One X for AT&T, where it was an exclusive. However, because it was an exclusive, that meant they had to rely on other designs and names to get it on the other carriers. Verizon had a Droid device (IIRC) and Sprint got an Evo--both of these were basically the One X, but customized for each carrier's demands. This approach failed, mostly due to the fact that nobody really understood that these were all supposed to be the same device, and due to a lack of marketing on HTC's part.
  • Two years ago, HTC streamlined again, and introduced the One. With a aluminum unibody, dual front firing speakers, an Ultrapixel camera and other high end features, it was a huge hit as Samsung's device for that year was a slight disappointment. They created a bigger focus on advertising this device and HTC found great success for a few months despite underwhelming camera results and short battery life...but after the launch profits started falling again, so HTC introduced the One mini and the One max, both of which flopped.
  • The next year, last year, HTC iterated on the original One with the One (M8)--the previous One had been codenamed M7 internally. This device continued the focus on great hardware design with even more metal, dual speakers, and in addition to Ultrapixel a duo camera was introduced. The duo camera seemed to be an unnecessary gimmick, and the camera continued to disappoint and, despite wide acclaim, profits started to fall again after the launch of this flagship. HTC realized it needed to expand outside of phones and started to focus on devices like the RE camera and the HTC Nexus 9 (a tablet). Both received middling reviews and neither of those particularly lit the world on fire, and HTC was still in trouble.
  • Fast forward to this year, and the One M9 was announced. This year around, it looked incredibly similar to the One M8, but due to a faulty SoC (the Qualcomm Snapdragon 810) it performed worse and had an even worse camera, despite a move away from Ultrapixel. The design was for the worse as well, as it was even more uncomfortable than any previous One device while looking worse than the last two phones. Sales crumbled of this device, to the point where a carrier in Canada stopped carrying the device altogether and part suppliers lowered shipments due to decreased demand.
One can easily see that the Vive partnership was just an attempt by HTC to further the move away from phones just like the RE camera and the (cancelled) RE fitness band. Since we keep hearing that HTC is pushing Valve to release the device this year while Valve seems a bit hesitant, one can see that they're counting on this device as a last hail mary to save the company.
 
W

wanderingprostheyltite

Member
neogaffer1 said:
One can easily see that the Vive partnership was just an attempt by HTC to further the move away from phones just like the RE camera and the (cancelled) RE fitness band. Since we keep hearing that HTC is pushing Valve to release the device this year while Valve seems a bit hesitant, one can see that they're counting on this device as a last hail mary to save the company.
Click to expand...

That doesn't seem likely, surely they understand the adoption for this will initially be niche and will take years to grow properly, likely taking several iterations of hmds. I do wonder how stretched their resources are given how incredibly small the Vive "world tour" is in terms of stops though. This doesn't seem like a move out of desperation, what they've achieved so far with Valve's help is very polished. I just don't buy that they're really seeing this as some kind of savior device, that would be foolish given the current niche appeal.
 
A

ashecitism

Member
wanderingprostheyltite said:
That doesn't seem likely, surely they understand the adoption for this will initially be niche and will take years to grow properly, likely taking several iterations of hmds. I do wonder how stretched their resources are given how incredibly small the Vive "world tour" is in terms of stops though. This doesn't seem like a move out of desperation, what they've achieved so far with Valve's help is very polished. I just don't buy that they're really seeing this as some kind of savior device, that would be foolish given the current niche appeal.
Click to expand...

Jeff Gattis of HTC has said they're expecting VR to be mainstream in maybe 3-5 years, they're committed to it and that the Vive will be have a "slightly higher price point", so yeah, doesn't sound like they're banking on this to be an immediate hit and help them out.
 
N

neogaffer1

Banned
wanderingprostheyltite said:
That doesn't seem likely, surely they understand the adoption for this will initially be niche and will take years to grow properly, likely taking several iterations of hmds. I do wonder how stretched their resources are given how incredibly small the Vive "world tour" is in terms of stops though. This doesn't seem like a move out of desperation, what they've achieved so far with Valve's help is very polished. I just don't buy that they're really seeing this as some kind of savior device, that would be foolish given the current niche appeal.
Click to expand...

they thought the re camera from a phone company whose phones are known for shitty cameras would usher in a new era where they wouldn't have to rely on smartphones. you're giving them too much credit.
 
K

kaiyo

Member
spekkeh said:
Yes like the Xperia Z4 that Sony didn't even bother releasing outside of Japan because of how horrible the chip performed. I was really done with Samsung and never wanted to go back. But the M9 had to be downclocked so badly to prevent it from burning up that it actually performed worse than the M8 in many tests. You can't pay premium money for a phone that performs worse than an old one, not when you want to compete with the highest end. Only Apple can pull off something that outrageous, and then Samsung absolutely killed it with their proprietary processor this year. My hands were tied, I had to buy another shitty Samsung.

(also horrendous designs, wattttt)
Click to expand...

Sony released the "Z4" as Z3+ outside of Japan.
 
S

SquashMatch

Member
ShowDog said:
This is what happens when prior customers look at HTCs products and say "never again"
Click to expand...

I am typing this reply on an HTC M7 and this is easily the worst smartphone I have ever owned. After my experience, and my wife's experience, with a different HTC phone, I am not surprised that they are struggling.
 
N

Nzyme32

Member
HTC are still doing their fitness band thing with Under Armour, although it is delayed till later in the year with some other products Under Armour are doing. Apart from Vive, I don't know of anything particularly new that they are doing. I doubt either will help them much in the near term, but if they can somehow last a few more years they may be able to build on those if they are successful enough.

I thought it was pretty likely that they get acquired, although their current position is hostile takeover territory, which I'm not sure anyone really predicted, so no idea what will happen.
 
n0razi

n0razi

Member
spekkeh said:
Damn, Qualcomm fucked HTC good. I'm sad, the HTC One M7 was my favorite phone ever.
Click to expand...

It' not Qualcomm's fault that HTC basically twiddled their thumbs after the initial success of the M7 while competition stepped up their game


But yeah I think my first 5 smartphones were all HTC (Mytouch3, Nexus One, HD2, Sensation....) but I have thus switched to Samsung and now LG
 
N

neogaffer1

Banned
Nzyme32 said:
HTC are still doing their fitness band thing with Under Armour, although it is delayed till later in the year with some other products Under Armour are doing. Apart from Vive, I don't know of anything particularly new that they are doing. I doubt either will help them much in the near term, but if they can somehow last a few more years they may be able to build on those if they are successful enough.

I thought it was pretty likely that they get acquired, although their current position is hostile takeover territory, which I'm not sure anyone really predicted, so no idea what will happen.
Click to expand...

it got cancelled

http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/16/htc-wont-ship-the-grip/
 
N

Nzyme32

Member
neogaffer1 said:
it got cancelled

http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/16/htc-wont-ship-the-grip/
Click to expand...

That isn't what it says:

the company just confirmed to us that it no longer plans to ship the Grip we've already seen. As a spokesperson put it, the company "decided to align Grip with the entire product portfolio for health and fitness launching later this year" after "extensive wear testing and user feedback." In other words, the exact Grip we saw in Spain won't hit the market, but something better will.
Click to expand...

Other sites reported it as a delay to later in the year with the same info:

Today, HTC released a statement saying that it would be delaying the launch of the device until later this year.

"After extensive wear testing and user feedback, we have decided to align GRIP with the entire product portfolio for health and fitness launching later this year," says the company in its official statement on the matter. "This will be a state-of-the-art comprehensive portfolio of products for this category powered by UA RECORD." No further details were provided.
Click to expand...

The only reason I paid any attention to this one was that I need some sort of gps tracker that hooks to some of the apps I'm using to help for my marathon training
 
S

SomedayTheFire

Member
HTC have been struggling for years even the success if the M7 wasn't going to do much for them. That said, absolutely loved my time with their phones. One X and One M8, both served me well. They'll be fine till they get the Vive out but they've been hobbling along for a while.
 
V

viHuGi

Banned
kami_sama said:
It wasn't the 810. Apart from the M9 there's more phones using it.
It was the horrendous design that fucked them over. I really hope they can resurface with a better product.
Click to expand...

Not sure if serious, got a M8 and the design is beautiful, friends always say my phone is beautiful and such.

Samsung S6 is also In trouble, problem here are Chinese are getting stronger and stealing market share.

Love my m8 HTC will always be my top choice, I hope they get back on track.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/05/20/samsung-galaxy-s6-bad-sales/
 
N

neogaffer1

Banned
viHuGi said:
Not sure if serious, got a M8 and the design is beautiful, friends always say my phone is beautiful and such.

Samsung S6 is also In trouble, problem here are Chinese are getting stronger and stealing market share.

Love my m8 HTC will always be my top choice, I hope they get back on track
Click to expand...

the m9 is basically a m8 but with the m7's sharp edges, it loses the palmability of the m8 while failing to recapture the beauty of the m7. that's what he's referring to when he says horrendous design.
 
G

gogogow

Member
viHuGi said:
Not sure if serious, got a M8 and the design is beautiful, friends always say my phone is beautiful and such.

Samsung S6 is also In trouble, problem here are Chinese are getting stronger and stealing market share.

Love my m8 HTC will always be my top choice, I hope they get back on track.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/05/20/samsung-galaxy-s6-bad-sales/
Click to expand...

Eh....Samsung made less money yoy in Q2, but up from Q1. They still make BILLIONS of dollars in profit, $5.92 billion in Q2 to be exact. And fyi, Samsung makes a lot of shit, like UHD TVs, which contributed to their profit in Q2.
HTC otoh was in the red in Q2, they posted a net loss of $166 million. On what can they fall back on when their phones aren't selling? They have Vive now, but they are basically a one trick pony.

I have a Xperia phone
 
F

forrest

formerly nacire
StalkerUKCG said:
The One M8 is the best phone I've ever owned. Hope the don't go under.
Click to expand...

I switched to this phone from an iphone 4s after reading lots of praise. It's has had touch screen issues since day one and often times will become unusable as the screen acts like someone is running their finger all over it giving false commands.

Not sure what I'll be looking to get next, but if HTC is around it certainly won't be one of theirs.
 
diablos991

diablos991

Can’t stump the diablos
That is what happens when your flagship product is essentially the same for several years. They needed to do something to stand outside of the crowd.

Somebody will pick Vive up if HTC can't do anything with it.
 
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