GlamFM
Banned
I don't - it's what actually happened. All right there in the article.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Ex-Bungie composer Marty ODonnell wins legal fight (document in the OP)
- Thread starter Steverulez
- Start date
I don't - it's what actually happened. All right there in the article.
GlamFM
Banned
This is exactly how I see it.
Why are you taking all of Bungie's claims at face value? They tried their hardest to fuck over Marty, you don't think they would spin the events to paint themselves in a better light so they could win the lawsuit?
Nah, clearly Marty is a big baby and they had no choice but to fire him. Everything after that was just a slight lapse of judgment.
OverBlood 3
Banned
The point is he was in charge of music and that authority was removed when activision meddled. It wasn't their place and he was pissed off and rightly so seeing as this was supposed to be a continuation of his previous work with bungie whom he had invested a lot into and all of a sudden the higher ups changed that.
Ovek
7Member7
Why are you taking Marty's claims at face value? He tried to paint Bungie and Activision as the big bad so he could win a lawsuit.
GlamFM
Banned
It's not simply Bungies claims - it's what came out of court. There is some value to that. Read the article.
You are judging the quality of a man's work with an article that gives you no information about the quality of the work whatsoever.
If you really think that a publishers decision to overrule the composer's decision on what music to use for the first trailer is any indication of the quality of his work, I don't think there is much ground to discuss this with you. Because a publisher's decisions, Activision's especially, are seldom about quality...AND Bungies CO actually vetoed the decision to remove it.
By the way, I think this is the trailer we are talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPRrFaUS6QI
This is the most stereotypical, unimaginative trailer music and it's absolutely no comparison to any of the Halo trailers Marty worked on.
And another thing: Marty's music is still in the game. http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2014/04/18/marty-odonnells-music-is-still-in-destiny/81793/ If it was that below par...why would they still use it, even after they fired the guy? I'm not a big fan of Destiny, but the music was without a doubt my favorite thing about the game. It was so good that it actually kind of clashed with the game. The campaign missions were so anticlimatic and unspectacular, that Marty's epic music sometimes didn't fit, which isn't surprisin when Marty had to compose aaaaall of Destiny's soundtrack in one, big swoop (even for the games that weren't released, or developed, yet) and when the whole campaign and story got thrown out the window a few months before release.
Because there's actual proof that Activision was stepping in and trying to control Marty's music.
And then there's also the part where Bungie didn't want to pay him for his vacation days and tried to take away his stocks in the company.
There's no proof to Bungie's claims.
He's in charge of making part of the game; Activision is in charge of selling that game. You could argue that Activision did nothing to interfere with how Marty made his part of the game by changing music in a trailer, whereas Marty absolutely tried to interfere with how Activision sold the game by making the trailer music change a big issue.
I like Marty's music, and I don't like the direction in which Activision has taken Bungie at all, but I really can't see Marty as entirely justified to raise such a huge fuss over the trailer. The main thing is that he got his stocks back, which he deserved to have.
Also, this. Really badly structured and vague at points. They just throw those claims that Marty interrupted press briefings at you without giving any context...did that actually happen, was it just an exaggeration by Activision, what press briefing are they talking about? That's what this article should have answered, because the judge seemingly didn't believe it.
Blue Ninja
Member
Seems like a lot of people were unhappy with the way things were/are going under Activision. The mass exodus of senior developers didn't happen for no reason. This article sheds a bit more light on it.
All sides seem to have been somewhat at fault. Activision for taking over the creative pricess, Bungie for bending over and Marty for behaving the way he did.
The way he was treated after the termination is just shitty, though. Glad to see he won.
The fact that they released the soundtrack he made and put his name dead last in the list of composers was just insulting.
Didn't the article state that Music of the Spheres was now technically in the public domain? Or am I misunderstanding the wording. If so, someone release that shit ASAP.
All sides seem to have been somewhat at fault. Activision for taking over the creative pricess, Bungie for bending over and Marty for behaving the way he did.
The way he was treated after the termination is just shitty, though. Glad to see he won.
The fact that they released the soundtrack he made and put his name dead last in the list of composers was just insulting.
Didn't the article state that Music of the Spheres was now technically in the public domain? Or am I misunderstanding the wording. If so, someone release that shit ASAP.
GlamFM
Banned
How to you come to that weird conclusion?
The Cartographer
Member
What about that ivory tower nickname thing?
From the article:
If he really did actively sabotage the game's marketing that would probably be more than enough reason to make the argument Bungie's lawyers are making here. But that doesn't seem to be the case.
I use the words "seemingly" and "seem" because we have no idea of knowing and it would be the article author's job to give us some information or context for this - or at least make a point of there being no further information about it. This way it just stands out like a weird anectode that should have huge consequences and journalists talking about it (I assume the ones who were part of that briefing would have told us if one of Bungie's founders tried to sabotage said briefing), but instead just...stands there. It's bad journalism.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
I agree. While this story certainly puts a Bungie / Activison in a bad light, it also shows how Marty was seemingly acting a bit arrogant and self serving as well.
Q
Queen of Hunting
Unconfirmed Member
Seems like so many people forgot how activision treated infinity ward.
I get the feeling someone in bungie was trying to do martya favor. Activison wanted him outright fired but bungie went through goal posts etc. As much as bungie looked a bad egg it seems like thry were trying to worm out of activisions rule of firing him
At the same time its clear marty was clenching on to the old bungie of doing it as a band we are all in this together and no one will over ride us. And bungie gave in to activision
I get the feeling someone in bungie was trying to do martya favor. Activison wanted him outright fired but bungie went through goal posts etc. As much as bungie looked a bad egg it seems like thry were trying to worm out of activisions rule of firing him
At the same time its clear marty was clenching on to the old bungie of doing it as a band we are all in this together and no one will over ride us. And bungie gave in to activision
))
Trickster
Member
Not sure what you mean by someone a bungie trying to do him a favor? He did get fired, with no reason stated apparently. And then also screwed over even further?
What tweet are they referring to?
Yeah, I always viewed Activision as a bunch of scumbags...but Bungie's behavior in this matter was shockingly disgusting... The state of Destiny's campaign and content at launch, and the lack of value in its DLCs, already convinced me that Activisions toxicity had spread to Bungie, this article confirms it...
Artistic integrity is gone at that company... It's so sad, it truly sounds like Marty expected his comrades to stand with him and defend what's right, instead they sided with the Activision paycheck. I'm so Glad Marty won.
Artistic integrity is gone at that company... It's so sad, it truly sounds like Marty expected his comrades to stand with him and defend what's right, instead they sided with the Activision paycheck. I'm so Glad Marty won.
Nollemaster
Member
I remember back when they were developing Halo, they were the coolest bunch of game developers you could imagine. Aside from Activision being huge dicks, Bungie just changed for the worst as it grew larger.
Gameinformer had this interview with Marty and Jaime (Griesemer) back when they had a month of Halo 5 coverage. They mentioned that dynamics in Bungie changed a whole lot as the team size started to increase exponentially over the years. I can't wait to see what Highwire games has to offer as a small team with a lot of old Bungie devs.
Gameinformer had this interview with Marty and Jaime (Griesemer) back when they had a month of Halo 5 coverage. They mentioned that dynamics in Bungie changed a whole lot as the team size started to increase exponentially over the years. I can't wait to see what Highwire games has to offer as a small team with a lot of old Bungie devs.
GlamFM
Banned
Let's not forget that Marty as a stock holder and member of the board "sold out" to Activision just like everybody else did.
I also think everybody should differentiate between a trailer and an actual game.
The trailer is a marketing tool, the game is the actual work (of art).
Marty's music for the game was never affected.
This is how modern trailers are.
Sometimes they don't show the actual game, oftentimes they are cg, sometimes live action.
They often use licensed music that's not found in the game.
They are often directed by external directors who bring in their own music - it's just how it goes.
Marty should have chilled the fuck out, but his arrogance got in the way.
Q
Queen of Hunting
Unconfirmed Member
Because throughout the read it was clear bungie wernt happy with marty nnhow he was acting n messing up things not toeing what activions told them etc
And when they fire him the reason is without cause ?
When someone is threatening staff interupting/ halting progress n meetings not doing his own work. That isnt someone you fire without reason
Jinjo
Member
While I understand Marty being disgruntled he resolved it in an unprofessional manner. Bungie is definitely Activision's bitch now and those seem indirectly responsible for the situation. I don't think either parties, Marty and Bungie, wanted things to go this way. But the big chiefs at Bungie themselves not fullfilling contractual obligations and not giving Marty what he deserves is absolutely the lowest of the low and those persons responsible, be it Activision or Bungie, are absolute scumbags. Glad Marty is getting what he deserves and worked for all these years, I hope Bungie loses a lot of money in the process. Shame for Marty it had to end up this way.
So essentially, the company funding the game weren't wild about his music, so changed it for a trailer, and the relationship broke down from there.
I think Marty comes off worst here. Ok, undermining his creative decisions was a dick move, but his response was essentially to have a tantrum and act like a petulant child in work from then on. Of course Bungie isn't going to stand behind him when he's being a blocker and working to his own agenda, while the rest of the studio are busting their asses to get the game out.
I think Marty comes off worst here. Ok, undermining his creative decisions was a dick move, but his response was essentially to have a tantrum and act like a petulant child in work from then on. Of course Bungie isn't going to stand behind him when he's being a blocker and working to his own agenda, while the rest of the studio are busting their asses to get the game out.
la flama blanca
Banned
People are going to assume it's strictly about the music because that's all you are aware of? Like nobody is going to assume that because Activision is involved that there may be more to the story but parties involved are legally bound to keep their mouths shut? If you work in the industry, you know damn well it's a lot more than the fucking "trailer music". Be real people.
GlamFM
Banned
Since Marty is the music guy this seems like a safe assumption, yes.
Developers arent in the industry to find a stable job. They want to express themselves creatively.
GlamFM
Banned
Sure, and unicorns and rainbows and shit.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Bullshit. Even Harold Ryan, you know the president of your beloved Bungie, was in Marty's corner at this point and filed a protest with Activision which was ultimately overruled.
Yeah Marty was a dick, and some would argue he had just cause, but Bungie and Activision were the bigger jerks by meddling in the first place and then trying to screw him over after they threw him under the bus.
cartoon_soldier
Member
I thought Bungie left MS because they didn't want this kind of interference but then went to Activision that seems to have provided even more interference in their process.
GlamFM
Banned
Sure, and after Marty didn't get what he wanted everybody else stayed professional while he started acting like a child who didn't get his ice cream.
LapinAgile
Member
It seems like Activision turned the dial up on the situation by threatening the breach of contract and Bungie relented. No one comes off as saints here, I can understand parts of both sides, and I am glad it's over. I don't agree with all of Marty O Donnell's views but his enthusiasm shown in all of Bungie's previous work wasn't artificial. Let's hope they can all move forward amicably.
I think the Bungie big wigs want paid. Destiny is the golden ticket on favourable terms more or less. I doubt begging Microsoft to buy them lead to gold during Halo and maybe they got a bit more later on but Destiny is the big money retirement gig for them so it's money over all else.
What a mess and I guess it shows in what Destiny ultimately delivered. Only issue for me is that I just don't believe Bungie are that much more 'capable' of improving it for Destiny 2. Ive lost any faith I had in them...
It seems to be a relationship where Activision can dictate everything (how the fuck did they seemingly jump from the frying pan into the fire?!?) and no doubt it will be us consumers that suffer.
EDIT: While I don't agree with Martys actions I understand they came from a good place (to try and protect Bungies creativity). Bungie trying to rob him of his founder status and what that entailed is disgusting...
ps3ud0 8)
It seems to be a relationship where Activision can dictate everything (how the fuck did they seemingly jump from the frying pan into the fire?!?) and no doubt it will be us consumers that suffer.
EDIT: While I don't agree with Martys actions I understand they came from a good place (to try and protect Bungies creativity). Bungie trying to rob him of his founder status and what that entailed is disgusting...
ps3ud0 8)
Regardless of Marty's actions, what Bungie/Activision did to him regarding pay, shares is on a whole new level. Outright illegal, breaking all kinds of federal workplace laws (which is why he won his pay back). And to top it off the underhandedly and illegally took his shares of the company he helped found away.
I hope this shits ALL OVER their next earning call.
PS I work in a big corporate environment.
I hope this shits ALL OVER their next earning call.
PS I work in a big corporate environment.
JetBlackPanda
Member
Seems like a huge assumption to make, the only thing we know activision dictated was trailer music for E3. They could have possibly had a hand in the retooling of the story but from every avenue I can see the story was real bad before they stripped it out.
Look activision is scum, we all know this. However it's not fair to start blaming them for everything when we only know for sure that they produced a marketing trailer for their game.
Wildstar75
Member
Congratulations Marty! Your work is epic and your compensation is well deservred!
Sorry I didn't think of that implication, yes its more than possible Activision weren't heavy handed across development, but they've got such a track record that Im likely to think wheres theres smoke theres fire.
TBH any attempt to reconcile what Destiny ended up becoming is me just clutching at straws hoping for substantial improvement - its probably not a sentiment for this thread though.
ps3ud0 8)
Alcoholikaust
Member
Good for Marty.
SliceSabre
Banned
Damn Bungie tried to royally fuck him over and he fucking annihilated them when he took it to the arbitrator.
Good on him and fuck Bungie and their upper level management.
Good on him and fuck Bungie and their upper level management.
Does Bungie pay you for shitposts?
GlamFM
Banned
Nah remembereing you from other threads I would not be surprised my statement would be true.
But on topic:
Everyone who follows Bungie for several years knows Marty is an eccentric person who is kind of a perfectionist, no wonder he felt betrayed, on his behavior? Not the best but understandable.
He was in the right and I'm glad Bungie has to pay.
Most interesting stuff out of this is that it is true that Bungie had to retool Destiny ( and bo Fyrewulf it is not just gamedesign to delay a game by a year and rewrite its story.)
I liked my time with Destiny eventhough it is a lackluster game (especially at launch) but even compared to other Bungie games the game was missing so much for features.
GlamFM
Banned
Don't call out people like that - I do not work for Activision or Bungie.
I'm a huge Destiny fan though, but other than that I don't have a horse in this race.
I do think that the usual reflex to jump on Marty's side because Activision is sitting on the other one is simply wrong here.