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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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So what is the Phantom boss at the end of the game and in mg1?

Does he still feel like he is big boss? Or can he actually remember that he was a medic?
He knows the plan and who he is when he is in the locker room. Scene becomes close to the MG1 final boss. He gets angry then walks off after hearing the other side of the tape. He assumes the final roll of Big Boss and fights snake. He knows who he is and accepts his final fate as bosses phantom begrudgingly.
 
People have played with reflex off. Is it balanced well, is it tense or is it just cheap?

it's great. you can still run up to guards and grab them when spotted. and even shoot them quick enough to avoid an alert. i played a run or two of GZ with reflex last year, but i've never even played TPP with reflex. it would honestly be way too easy
 

RK9039

Member
I will, soon as you rip through the double standard and explain to me the ladder scene in Snake Eater.

Ladder boss was a break from an actual boss, an intense fight might I add, which acted as a segue to a completely new location, one that was very different to the rest of the game. The Sins of the Father commercial break was a segue from what exactly? Skull man's intense one-sided conversation? and a segue to what exactly? his continued one-sided conversation?

It's not comparable and therefore there is no double standards. I ask you again, please explain the jeep ride with The Sins of the Father commercial break and how that entire segment makes sense?
 
Ladder boss was a break from an actual boss, an intense fight might I add, which acted as a segue to a completely new location, one that was very different to the rest of the game. The Sins of the Father commercial break was a segue from what exactly? Skull man's intense one-sided conversation? and a segue to what exactly? his continued one-sided conversation?

It's not comparable and therefore there is no double standards. I ask you again, please explain the jeep ride with The Sins of the Father commercial break and how that entire segment makes sense?

it's awkward, still doesn't mean it's due to the game being unfinished
 

Roni

Gold Member
Super Bunnyhop already explained why this comparison doesn't work. In MGS3 the ladder sequence is a subtle tone-shifting intermission. The jeep ride in MGSV on the other hand is an interruption that has the song placed in between a one-sided conversation that immediately picks back up after the song is over. It doesn't work and it's awkwardly placed.

Besides, countering a point with an unrelated point to another game doesn't really answer it in the context of it's own scene.

Tone shifting? From what? High-octane and intense to standard? Did you play The End's boss battle? The pace is SLOWER than the rest of the entire game and no more intense.

The song at least touches on the subject matter in MGSV.
 

valkyre

Member
Explain Skull man's jeep ride and the awkward commercial break with Sins of the Father.

Ye because the Ladder in MGS3 while the Snake Eater "commercial" was playing was so poignant and thoughtful...

Lol seriously people need to effing chill with MGSV already... Its become ridiculous to say the least.

MGS was always wacky, when you people were riding the hype train you were admiring wacky shit like enemies that shoot bees from their mouths, cyborg ninjas and rollerskate bombers.

Now suddenly everything is crap, awkward and nonsensical. Perhaps you were expecting something like the Godfather or whatnot. You should chill though its like you are trying really reeally hard to throw shit at pretty much everything that has to do with the game. Move on, some of the comments here are really embarrassing and dissrespectful i might say towards the overall work Kojima has offered in this industry all these years.

Some comments here present him as some idiot who cant write a line for a joke. Enough. You are going too far. You are dissappointed. Express it. But at least show some respect.
 

CheesecakeRecipe

Stormy Grey
Ye because the Ladder in MGS3 while the Snake Eater "commercial" was playing was so poignant and thoughtful...

Lol seriously people need to effing chill with MGSV already... Its become ridiculous to say the least.

MGS was always wacky, when you people were riding the hype train you were admiring wacky shit like enemies that shoot bees from their mouths, cyborg ninjas and rollerskate bombers.

Now suddenly everything is crap, awkward and nonsensical. Perhaps you were expecting something like the Godfather or whatnot. You should chill though its like you are trying really reeally hard to throw shit at pretty much everything that has to do with the game. Move on, some of the comments here are really embarrassing and dissrespectful i might say towards the overall work Kojima has offered in this industry all these years.

Some comments here present him as some idiot who cant write a line for a joke. Enough. You are going too far. You are dissappointed. Express it. But at least show some respect.

Criticism is healthy.
 

Toa TAK

Banned
Saying you don't like the game is one thing, the minute you start throwing absolutes such as "this game doesn't make sense" I'm going to start asking for some examples.

So, examples?

Wait are you serious?

How about at the beginning of the game when the Man on Fire/Psycho Mantis is killing the XOF soldiers, but somehow later on Skull Face hooks up with them.

What the fuck is Strangelove on about with Hal's hidden digital potential? Nothing comes out of that and it's just pure nonsense.

Zero and Big Boss' relationship thoughout the series just keeps changing as we see BB pissed at him in MGS4, but Zero is totally his bro in V. And why does he trust Ocelot so much? 'Cause he's talented at what he does? lol

Big Boss apparently thinks his clones are inhuman, but it totally cool with a mental clone in his place. Yeah okay, I get he wants to hide from the world, but making another BB is the goal of the LET project.

Sahlenathropus was supposed to do what? Scare people into wanting nukes? Yeah okay. His entire plan is dumb. Skull Face believes that "the chain of retaliation is what will truly bind this world together as one", but that makes no sense in according to his own plan of nations being forced to recognize each other as they all have nukes but no way to use them to actually enforce any real revenge on each other if they feel the need. What the fuck?

"Kaz, [...], I'm already a demon." But the man always does the right thing anyways. All this talk of inner demons and phantoms but Venom is a goddamn hero and that alone is at odds with whatever themes are at play in this thread.

Don't pull that shit, there's a reason why this Spoiler thread is about to have a THIRD, it's because most people are trying to figure out how all the pieces fit in with each other in the context of the game itself and the rest of the series, but the issue is that it doesn't.

For what it's worth, I enjoyed the story on a moment-to-moment basis, it's only as I look back on it that you can easily realize that's it's stupid.
 

Gorillaz

Member
Chapter 1 could have been broken up. Like obviously it wouldn't have to be.
I really doubt that, even as an epilogue it doesn't do the job.
Expectations would been curved a bit if people realized it was just a epilogue. Chapter 2 implies an entire new layout of story and content
 

NotLiquid

Member
Tone shifting? From what? High-octane and intense to standard? Did you play The End's boss battle? The pace is SLOWER than the rest of the entire game and no more intense.

The song at least touches on the subject matter in MGSV.

Being a slower battle doesn't mean that it was any less intense of one and if you claim otherwise you're seriously kidding yourself. Never mind the fact that it's a demanding boss battle; the ladder signifies a significant location switch from one major part of the game to a completely different one you haven't been at before. You move from the jungles which you've effectively spent half of the game, to the mountains, as you won't be returning to the lower part anytime soon.

I don't know why you're accusing me of not playing the game here, and I don't know why you think that the subject of Sins of the Father means the song is any less hamfisted in it's sequence. Even though I won't deny that it's cheesy in MGS3, it's not as cringeworthy and awkward as MGSV, as the former is at least a moment of reflection and anticipation.
 
Yeah, I didn't say anything about the game being unfinished when posting about the jeep ride.

oh sorry. i interpreted your statement that it "doesn't make sense" meaning that it appears unfinished. but, the scene makes perfect sense. it's awkwardly presented, in a very generic video gamey, very non-kojima-ish fashion, but it still makes sense.

i don't particularly like the jeep ride, but i don't think the ladder scene is anything great at all. it's also awkward to me. it's really silly
 

CheesecakeRecipe

Stormy Grey
Criticism is always welcome. If you bothered to read my comment i explicity state to express your dissappointment. But not in a disrespectful manner. The way people handle this is completely hyperbolic.

I've hardly found it so. But then again, I'm someone who is quite disappointed with the product as a whole while admiring the polished, if flawed, core gameplay elements. I did read your post, and it came off to me as sounding like someone wasn't happy that something they liked was coming under fire. Even in your response here, you're fuming through your language.

Relax and address criticisms you find flawed with the same levelheadedness you wish them to abide by and maybe you'd get what you want faster, rather than to be so dismissive of them and tell them to move on and leave the thread.
 

RK9039

Member
Ye because the Ladder in MGS3 while the Snake Eater "commercial" was playing was so poignant and thoughtful...

Lol seriously people need to effing chill with MGSV already... Its become ridiculous to say the least.

MGS was always wacky, when you people were riding the hype train you were admiring wacky shit like enemies that shoot bees from their mouths, cyborg ninjas and rollerskate bombers.

Now suddenly everything is crap, awkward and nonsensical. Perhaps you were expecting something like the Godfather or whatnot. You should chill though its like you are trying really reeally hard to throw shit at pretty much everything that has to do with the game. Move on, some of the comments here are really embarrassing and dissrespectful i might say towards the overall work Kojima has offered in this industry all these years.

Some comments here present him as some idiot who cant write a line for a joke. Enough. You are going too far. You are dissappointed. Express it. But at least show some respect.

What a funny post. Who is being disrespectful here? If you can't handle the criticisms here, which aren't even directed at you or anyone that matter, then try another MGSV thread like the OT.
 

valkyre

Member
I've hardly found it so. But then again, I'm someone who is quite disappointed with the product as a whole while admiring the polished, if flawed, core gameplay elements. I did read your post, and it came off to me as sounding like someone wasn't happy that something they liked was coming under fire. Even in your response here, you're fuming through your language.

Relax and address criticisms you find flawed with the same levelheadedness you wish them to abide by and maybe you'd get what you want faster, rather than to be so dismissive of them and tell them to move on and leave the thread.
So in other words you want me to relax and to reply to 80% of the posts here? Yeah, i dont think so.

Also, i have voiced my criticism over the game, you would be surprised to know that i myself have many issues with it. What i cant stand is to see people go hyperbole and go flat out disrespectful towards the same people they seemingly admired 1 month ago. And there are lots of them. its fine to be dissapointed and voicing it properly and maturely.
 
Yes "Jesus" we do. Its another awkward moment where you climb a ridiculous ladder for 5 minutes listening to a "commercial". Its wacky its awkward its Kojima.

Ladder scene would be equivalent if the following happened:
Volgin is monologue-ing at you on his hover platform while you climb the ladder.
Stops talking.
Snake Eater theme plays.
Volgin stares at you awkwardly for the duration.
Song finishes.
Volgin continues monologue-ing at you.
 

RK9039

Member
Ladder scene would be equivalent if the following happened:
Volgin is monologue-ing at you on his hover platform while you climb the ladder.
Stops talking.
Snake Eater theme plays.
Volgin stares at you awkwardly for the duration.
Song finishes.
Volgin continues monologue-ing at you.

And it still wouldn't be the same because of what happens before the ladder boss and directly after it.

The jeep ride was so bad I thought my game broke.
 
...aaand finished 46. (98 hours, 70% completion.)

I didn't go into the ending expecting any big reveals (with the dual Kiefers, "you're talking to yourself" and the various other hints it was pretty clear from the get-go what was going on), nor did I think it would suddenly bust out any fantastic story beats, but it's still frustrating that all it really amounts to is connecting the extremely minor dots of "how did Big Boss survive MG1?"

Even if they had called Chapter 2 an epilogue, I'd still be frustrated with the story. Mainly because it, well, isn't really a story, or it at least reeeeally stretches the definition. It has a samey collection of events that are lightly strung together, but it's nothing more than "We're angry at this guy! Let's search for him! We found him!" Various characters and events are introduced before floating out of the game having affected practically nothing. It brings up a number of interesting ideas (primarily in the cassettes), but they are simply stated and left to sit, with little attempt to weave them into a narrative. This is the last thing I would have ever expected from MGS. I hope we find out someday if the game we got matches up to Kojima's vision, it really feels like they got 65% there and were abruptly told "pencils down."

Still, the actual "game" of it is fucking great (clearly, having spent 100 hours on the thing so far). I wish the final third hadn't been so lazy, but even then it was usually fun to revisit missions and try out different tactics.

Edit: The song playing in the jeep was the moment that went the farthest towards convincing me we didn't get the original vision. It was downright comical having the big epic part of the song kick in as you're still sitting there in silence getting driven from point A to point B. It was so absurd that I gave serious thought to whether or not there was some sort of MGS2-style commentary going on.
 

Ashura_MX

Member
I masturbate to the ladder, I dont masturbate to the jeep ride (both songs are amazing in its own way and place in time)

Edit: I turned reflex mode off after the first 2 times I got spotted way back in Ground Zeroes, I get why people may like it, I fucking despise it (or at least despise the fact its on by default)
 

SJRB

Gold Member
So in other words you want me to relax and to reply to 80% of the posts here? Yeah, i dont think so.

Also, i have voiced my criticism over the game, you would be surprised to know that i myself have many issues with it. What i cant stand is to see people go hyperbole and go flat out disrespectful towards the same people they seemingly admired 1 month ago. And there are lots of them. its fine to be dissapointed and voicing it properly and maturely.

I'll voice my opinion however I see fit, just like everyone else here. As long as they don't break TOS rules, people can say whatever the hell they want.
 

valkyre

Member
Ladder scene would be equivalent if the following happened:
Volgin is monologue-ing at you on his hover platform while you climb the ladder.
Stops talking.
Snake Eater theme plays.
Volgin stares at you awkwardly for the duration.
Song finishes.
Volgin continues monologue-ing at you.

So in order for something to be comparable as an awkward scene it has to be an absolute copy with what happened in MGSV? So climbing a ladder while listening to Snake Eater was not awkward to you? It was just business as usual? You were expecting it, you found it absolutely fitting and normal?

I have to disagree. It was awkward but because it is Kojima and because its MGS we accept these things and embrace them. So i dont get how it is so far fetched to compare these 2 awkward moments
 

valkyre

Member
I'll voice my opinion however I see fit, just like everyone else here. As long as they don't break TOS rules, people can say whatever the hell they want.

And I can voice my opinion that i consider that specific type of criticism as hyperbole, disrespectful and kinda immature.
 
Also, i have voiced my criticism over the game, you would be surprised to know that i myself have many issues with it. What i cant stand is to see people go hyperbole and go flat out disrespectful towards the same people they seemingly admired 1 month ago. And there are lots of them. its fine to be dissapointed and voicing it properly and maturely.
Can you point out who exactly has switched to "go flat out disrespectful towards the same people they seemingly admired 1 month ago?" Surely you must have some names.
 

Pandacon

Member
Ladder scene would be equivalent if the following happened:
Volgin is monologue-ing at you on his hover platform while you climb the ladder.
Stops talking.
Snake Eater theme plays.
Volgin stares at you awkwardly for the duration.
Song finishes.
Volgin continues monologue-ing at you.

Not to mention the ladder scene, it was just the vocals, so the song just felt more fitting for the moment when not much was going one. The jeep ride, all of a sudden this dramatic music kicks in, it's really feels out of place.
 

Roni

Gold Member
Wait are you serious?

How about at the beginning of the game when the Man on Fire/Psycho Mantis is killing the XOF soldiers, but somehow later on Skull Face hooks up with them.

What the fuck is Strangelove on about with Hal's hidden digital potential? Nothing comes out of that and it's just pure nonsense.

Zero and Big Boss' relationship thoughout the series just keeps changing as we see BB pissed at him in MGS4, but Zero is totally his bro in V. And why does he trust Ocelot so much? 'Cause he's talented at what he does? lol

Big Boss apparently thinks his clones are inhuman, but it totally cool with a mental clone in his place. Yeah okay, I get he wants to hide from the world, but making another BB is the goal of the LET project.

Sahlenathropus was supposed to do what? Scare people into wanting nukes? Yeah okay. His entire plan is dumb. Skull Face believes that "the chain of retaliation is what will truly bind this world together as one", but that makes no sense in according to his own plan of nations being forced to recognize each other as they all have nukes but no way to use them to actually enforce any real revenge on each other if they feel the need. What the fuck?

"Kaz, [...], I'm already a demon." But the man always does the right thing anyways. All this talk of inner demons and phantoms but Venom is a goddamn hero and that alone is at odds with whatever themes are at play in this thread.

Don't pull that shit, there's a reason why this Spoiler thread is about to have a THIRD, it's because most people are trying to figure out how all the pieces fit in with each other in the context of the game itself and the rest of the series, but the issue is that it doesn't.

For what it's worth, I enjoyed the story on a moment-to-moment basis, it's only as I look back on it that you can easily realize that's it's stupid.

Man on Fire/Mantis: explained in informant tapes.

I'll need to re-listen to Strangelove's tape to even understand what you meant by that point. Was sleepy when I did the first time. But I'm willing to bet you misunderstood something.

Big Boss hates Zero, Zero wants to get back together with his pal. Ocelot and Snake respect and know each other since '64. They formed Cipher together and disbanded in the early 70's due to LET.

The problems are not the children, Big Boss 'himself' says he would treat them as any other human being. The problem is what they represent. Zero's distrust of Snake.

If you want the long answer, I can give it to you when I get to my PC. But basically, scare the world into buying nukes. After everyone has Nukes, obliterate the English language and stop globalization. Without English's influence on the world every culture would be left to thrive and arming everyone with Nukes beforehand ensures no other country will get up on anyone else's business. Why? Because cultural predation is what took Skull Faces's family, friends, village and future away from him.

Venom a hero? He wanted to train those kids to be mercenaries. Kaz gave him an alternative he, in second thought, didn't oppose. Instead of killing an enemy outright, he sentenced him to a life as a cripple. Something he dreaded a lot more. Venom is no hero...

Listen to the tapes and pay attention to the story before saying something doesn't make sense.
 
...aaand finished 46. (98 hours, 70% completion.)

I didn't go into the ending expecting any big reveals (with the dual Kiefers, "you're talking to yourself" and the various other hints it was pretty clear from the get-go what was going on), nor did I think it would suddenly bust out any fantastic story beats, but it's still frustrating that all it really amounts to is connecting the extremely minor dots of "how did Big Boss survive MG1?"

Even if they had called Chapter 2 an epilogue, I'd still be frustrated with the story. Mainly because it, well, isn't really a story, or it at least reeeeally stretches the definition. It has a samey collection of events that are lightly strung together, but it's nothing more than "We're angry at this guy! Let's search for him! We found him!" The game brought up a number of interesting ideas (primarily in the cassettes), but they were simply stated and left to sit, with practically no attempt to weave them into a narrative. This is the last thing I would have ever expected from MGS. I really hope we find out someday if the game we got matches up to Kojima's vision, it really feels like they got 65% there and were abruptly told "pencils down."

Still, the actual "game" of it is fucking great (clearly, having spent 100 hours on the thing so far). I wish the final third hadn't been so lazy, but even then it was usually fun to revisit missions and try out different tactics.

Edit: The song playing in the jeep was the moment that went the farthest towards convincing me we didn't get the original vision. It was downright comical having the big epic part of the song kick in as you're still sitting there in silence getting driven from point A to point B. It was so absurd that I gave serious thought to whether or not there was some sort of MGS2-style commentary going on.

that's certainly a more plausible explanation than them sticking it in there just because. as i said, the jeep scene had been planned for months. it wasn't a last minute addition to the game because they had nothing else. i really could be kojima saying, "you want an open world game? you want less cutscenes? HERE. have an awkward jeep scene that's awfully rockstar-esque"
 

SJRB

Gold Member
And I can voice my opinion that i consider that specific type of criticism as hyperbole, disrespectful and kinda immature.

This is a non-reply, since you literally just told everyone in this thread they should post set to your specific wishes [e.g. "be respectful to Kojima", etc.]

Obviously you can post whatever you want, but stop telling other people how they should formulate their posts.
 

valkyre

Member
Can you point out who exactly has switched to "go flat out disrespectful towards the same people they seemingly admired 1 month ago?" Surely you must have some names.

I am not going to play this game. I wont play the game of being the guy who has to reply to 80% of comments in here. I simply voiced my opinion that a lot of the comments here have been quite hyperbolic in nature. Like i have said in almost every post i have no problem with criticism. I voiced my issues with the game as well, its presentation, the lack of proper pacing, the extreme amount of filler content etc etc.

But i wont go as far as to type down some of the things i have seen here. Its not fair either towards the game and its creator who has offered quite a lot to this industry.

Dont worry though i am following gaf advise and staying off this thread cause once GAF's mind is set on somethjng then its pretty much set in stone.
 

NotLiquid

Member
So in order for something to be comparable as an awkward scene it has to be an absolute copy with what happened in MGSV? So climbing a ladder while listening to Snake Eater was not awkward to you? It was just business as usual? You were expecting it, you found it absolutely fitting and normal?

I have to disagree. It was awkward but because it is Kojima and because its MGS we accept these things and embrace them. So i dont get how it is so far fetched to compare these 2 awkward moments

Maybe I'd have more sympathy for the jeep sequence if it actually built up to something, if it was cleverly placed or if it was any more subtle about it. Use the instrumental while Skull Face is talking instead, cap off the choir after Skull Face delivers his final line. At least it would be cheesy in an endearing way. Instead the song is played in it's entirety the moment he stops his monologue as I'm sitting on the most awkward jeep ride expecting someone to break the ice.

Not going to accept it "just because it's Kojima". Yes, MGS is wacky, but it has enough context to make a conscious decision on when and where it ought to apply. The ladder sequence is a good example of that as you're going from one half of the game into a brand new one after a taxing battle. It's a cheesy thing, but it is an informed thing. Jeep sequence really isn't. They're only similar at surface value.
 

Toa TAK

Banned
Man on Fire/Mantis: explained in informant tapes.

I'll need to re-listen to Strangelove's tape to even understand what you meant by that point. Was sleepy when I did the first time. But I'm willing to bet you misunderstood something.

Big Boss hates Zero, Zero wants to get back together with his pal. Ocelot and Snake respect and know each other since '64. They formed Cipher together and disbanded in the early 70's due to LET.

The problems are not the children, Big Boss 'himself' says he would treat them as any other human being. The problem is what they represent. Zero's distrust of Snake.

If you want the long answer, I can give it to you when I get to my PC. But basically, scare the world into buying nukes. After everyone has Nukes, obliterate the English language and stop globalization. Without English's influence on the world every culture would be left to thrive and arming everyone with Nukes beforehand ensures no other country will get up on anyone else's business. Why? Because cultural predation is what took Skull Faces's family, friends, village and future away from him.

Venom a hero? He wanted to train those kids to be mercenaries. Kaz gave him an alternative he, in second thought, didn't oppose. Instead of killing an event outright, he sentenced him to a life as a cripple. Something he dreaded a lot more. Venom is no hero...

Listen to the tapes and pay attention to the story before saying something doesn't make sense.
The tapes don't makse sense either, but I can link you to Strangelove's here.

Okay cool, let's rid the world of verbal communication, but that doesn't stop written language, so sure, that'll impede whatever the world is progressing with, but that doesn't mean alliances and enemies won't form again and the world won't go back to ruining each other. This time it's just that no one would be able to talk. Great plan.

Venom acts on mercy and spares Huey and immortalizes his lost DD companions he had no choice to shoot down. Dude's a hero.

And if LET is so bad and represents Zero's mistrust of Snake, and Snake hates Zero, he seems to have no qualms whatsoever to jump onboard his plan to go offscreen the rest of the game and build up to MG1.
 

Reebot

Member
Good Lord, people really equating the ladder scene and the jeep ride?

What is it about this game that makes people so desperate to excuse its failings?
 

Xiraiya

Member
People have played with reflex off. Is it balanced well, is it tense or is it just cheap?
I played GZ with Reflex mode on for like 3 days when it came out, and then never again since then, even then the game isn't really hard if you're not being stupid.
The game plays fine without reflex, I'm pretty damn sure it was designed around having it off as having it on makes the game feel effortless, infact I think effortless by definition requires more effort than what Reflex mode usage requires.
 

brau

Member
RPS article

They really do tend to nail how i feel about games in general. Glad to see that they point out a lot of the big gripes i have with the game. Not the story, but the gameplay side of things.

I was initially relieved, then, when The Phantom Pain turned out to be accommodating. But after twenty hours of play, I’m much more surprised to find myself feeling so far towards the other direction. The Phantom Pain is too easy.

It started with D-Dog. Initially, my efforts to scout and infiltrate bases would be occasionally sent awry when I’d round a corner and be caught by a previously unseen guard. This would trigger reflex mode, still giving me enough time to rectify the situation, but it would also often cause a domino effect of alerted guards and clumsy clean-up. This was part of the excitement.

Now this never happens because D-Dog is there to detect anyone nearby, even when they’re around corners or inside buildings. With him by my side, I can often pick routes from one side of a base to the other and then sprint, full-pelt, among buildings and watchtowers to get where I’m going.

It got worse when I unlocked Quiet. I like the idea of being covered by a sniper, who I can order to shoot in order to get me out of jams, but Quiet’s ability to spot enemies and her perfect aim mean that it often feels like I’m not needed at all. At least D-Dog would sometimes be overwhelmed by enemies and need to balloon out; Quiet’s position on a nearby clifftop seems to put her out of reach of the enemy AI in most instances. And if they do manage to shoot her, she can teleport to a new location without me needing to ask.

I know there are harder missions to come which will limit your options in certain ways, but I’ve been playing large swathes of the game without breaking a sweat so far. It’s making the experience feel emptier than I would like.

Of course, the real problem here might be me: faced with an easier path, I’m unable to avoid taking it. The Phantom Pain gives you umpteen ways to make the game harder for yourself but I lack the willpower to take any of them. I could decide, for example, to never settle for anything less than S-Ranks; I could resolve to play non-lethally; I could leave the buddies back at base entirely. I could even play as characters with less resilience or speed than Big Boss, turn off Reflex mode in options, and bring with me only unsilenced or slow or inaccurate or weak weapons on sorties.

But I’m finding I’m not particularly good at setting these boundaries for myself. I recently completed a mission which (no spoilers) required me to tail one man to another, then eliminate both of them. I decided to add spice to the challenge by extracting rather than killing them, which required finding a way to get close to them before they escaped and under the noses of the many guards which surrounded them. I tried to do this again and again by sneaking, by tranquilising, by approaching from different sides, before deciding that I should probably make use of the full set of tools at my disposal.

I was forced to come up with a new tactic because this wasn’t in a base, and so Quiet couldn’t be asked to snipe from nearby, but I still managed to take out around 12 enemies by standing still inside a box and a poster attached to it. It was funny, but I still feel a sense of dissatisfaction because I essentially fell back on using magic in order to solve a challenge that could have been overcome without it. Yet I lack the conviction to ignore the magic entirely and commit myself to an honest day’s work until I accomplish what I want.

I should stress: I’m not sure I’d change the game substantially to correct this. I suspect that if Metal Gear Solid was the hardcore game I assumed it would be, then I wouldn’t be enjoying it nearly as much. I suspect if the difficulty was ramping up – via more mechs or more enemies and less player progression – then I might eventually find it tedious rather than satisfying. I think, at most, I’d like there to be more menu options for outright ripping certain parts of the game out so I can’t lazily fall back upon them, or a harder difficulty mode that does the same.

I am looking forward to seeing if this gets better for them.. or worse. In my case, it was worse, because at that point int he game, i was looking forward to the story to anchor me into keeping myself entertained. Little did i know.
 

Chariot

Member
Good Lord, people really equating the ladder scene and the jeep ride?

What is it about this game that makes people so desperate to excuse its failings?
The atmosphere here is clearly stacked against the game, Konami and Kojima. "People" are a small group. There are always fans that want to defend something, don't be too bothered by it.
 
The tapes don't makse sense either, but I can link you to Strangelove's here.

Okay cool, let's rid the world of verbal communication, but that doesn't stop written language, so sure, that'll impede whatever the world is progressing with, but that doesn't mean alliances and enemies won't form again and the world won't go back to ruining each other. This time it's just that no one would be able to talk. Great plan.

Venom acts on mercy and spares Huey and immortalizes his lost DD companions he had no choice to shoot down. Dude's a hero.

the point is to get rid of english though. sure there are people who can write english without speaking, but that's an awfully small portion of the population. the plot makes perfect sense from the standpoint of trying to rid the world of a dominant language (ie. english) through speech. the fact that people can still write in english is irrelevant if the majority of people who speak it are already dead. the angle is not about ridding the world of verbal communication. it's ridding the world of english, there's a difference
 

valkyre

Member
This is a non-reply, since you literally just told everyone in this thread they should post set to your specific wishes [e.g. "be respectful to Kojima", etc.]

Obviously you can post whatever you want, but stop telling other people how they should formulate their posts.

I feel that i have to be clear on this. I think i am entitled to expect respect towards every decent individual referenced in here. showing lack of respect shouldnt be applicable towards members only, but towards all decent people in general.
 

Gestahl

Member
Good Lord, people really equating the ladder scene and the jeep ride?

What is it about this game that makes people so desperate to excuse its failings?

They've invested a lot emotionally into the idea of Kojima and it's too late to sell their stock and trade in Fukushimas I guess
 

Toa TAK

Banned
the point is to get rid of english though. sure there are people who can write english without speaking, but that's an awfully small portion of the population. the plot makes perfect sense from the standpoint of trying to rid the world of a dominant language (ie. english) through speech. the fact that people can still write in english is irrelevant if the majority of people who speak it are already dead. the angle is not about ridding the world of verbal communication. it's ridding the world of english, there's a difference

He can rid the world of spoken English, but being the Lingua Franca of the world, most would know (or want to know) it anyways.

That's cool that he wants to rid verbal communication, but to think that's gonna stop globalization and force everyone into owning nukes is another.
 

Roni

Gold Member
The tapes don't makse sense either, but I can link you to Strangelove's here.

Okay cool, let's rid the world of verbal communication, but that doesn't stop written language, so sure, that'll impede whatever the world is progressing with, but that doesn't mean alliances and enemies won't form again and the world won't go back to ruining each other. This time it's just that no one would be able to talk. Great plan.

Venom acts on mercy and spares Huey and immortalizes his lost DD companions he had no choice to shoot down. Dude's a hero.

Thanks for the link.

Not rid the world of verbal communication, of English, and maybe other great languages... That would revert the world to a local, tribal state. Alliances might happen, but a Nuke is a Nuke and the Metallic Archaea are reproducible. It's the ultimate weapon. That would ensure no culture would be victimized.

An evil man is not bad to everyone one, just the majority - relatively. Even Hitler loved and respected something. Honoring his fellow soldiers doesn't make Venom a good man. Only flat villains are evil to everyone.
 
He can rid the world of spoken English, but being the Lingua Franca of the world, most would know (or want to know) it anyways.

That's cool that he wants to rid verbal communication, but to think that's gonna stop globalization and force everyone into owning nukes is another.

bruh, he doesn't want to rid anyone of verbal communication. he wants to get rid of english. how hard is this to understand? people who speak english as a second language would die also! english would be nearly culturally irrelevent
 
Man on Fire/Mantis: explained in informant tapes.

I'll need to re-listen to Strangelove's tape to even understand what you meant by that point. Was sleepy when I did the first time. But I'm willing to bet you misunderstood something.

Big Boss hates Zero, Zero wants to get back together with his pal. Ocelot and Snake respect and know each other since '64. They formed Cipher together and disbanded in the early 70's due to LET.

The problems are not the children, Big Boss 'himself' says he would treat them as any other human being. The problem is what they represent. Zero's distrust of Snake.

If you want the long answer, I can give it to you when I get to my PC. But basically, scare the world into buying nukes. After everyone has Nukes, obliterate the English language and stop globalization. Without English's influence on the world every culture would be left to thrive and arming everyone with Nukes beforehand ensures no other country will get up on anyone else's business. Why? Because cultural predation is what took Skull Faces's family, friends, village and future away from him.

Venom a hero? He wanted to train those kids to be mercenaries. Kaz gave him an alternative he, in second thought, didn't oppose. Instead of killing an enemy outright, he sentenced him to a life as a cripple. Something he dreaded a lot more. Venom is no hero...

Listen to the tapes and pay attention to the story before saying something doesn't make sense.

You know I think the biggest problem here is merely the pacing and structure. For the most part, the elements are all there. They just aren't arranged very well. Would everyone feel the same about the story if it were more cohesive?
 

fastmower

Member
I feel that i have to be clear on this. I think i am entitled to expect respect towards every decent individual referenced in here. showing lack of respect shouldnt be applicable towards members only, but towards all decent people in general.
I honestly think you need to take a break from this thread.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Venom a hero? He wanted to train those kids to be mercenaries. Kaz gave him an alternative he, in second thought, didn't oppose. Instead of killing an enemy outright, he sentenced him to a life as a cripple. Something he dreaded a lot more. Venom is no hero...

You spend the game collecting "Heroism" points. A majority of the game is based on you saving the world from either a nuclear weapon, or a global parasite. You're praised for killing your infected crew. Instead of killing a guy who was rewritten to be a backstabbing asshole, you step in and spare his life, kicking him out of MB with a boatload of rations. In Chapter 3 Venom dedicates Diamond Dogs to saving the world from nukes.

Dude is a hero. And since Venom is a vector for Big Boss, it effectively rewrites that you "being" Big Boss is Kojima's way of turning Big Boss into a hero of his own in spite of the stuff he does in Metal Gear.
 
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