Support NeoGAF

[Toa TAK]

Thanks for the link.

Not rid the world of verbal communication, of English, and maybe other great languages... That would revert the world to a local, tribal state. Alliances might happen, but a Nuke is a Nuke and the Metallic Archaea are reproducible. It's the ultimate weapon. That would ensure no culture would be victimized.

An evil man is not bad to everyone one, just the majority - relatively. Even Hitler loved and respected something. Honoring his fellow soldiers doesn't make Venom a good man. Only flat enemies are evil to everyone.

Cultures would still be victimized. Wasn't that the point of Peace Walker, that nuclear deterrence wouldn't work anyways? Either people are going to mess with each other regardless or launch once some spy network figures out Skull Face is in charge of the whole plan.

bruh, he doesn't want to rid anyone of verbal communication. he wants to get rid of english. how hard is this to understand? people who speak english as a second language would die also! english would be nearly culturally irrelevent

But what about the other parasites of other languages? They exist too, right? At some point, the chain of retaliation is going to eventually hit the rest of the major spoken languages or even Skull Face himself as he speaks English.

 

[BadWolf]

it's great. you can still run up to guards and grab them when spotted. and even shoot them quick enough to avoid an alert. i played a run or two of GZ with reflex last year, but i've never even played TPP with reflex. it would honestly be way too easy

Too true, watched someone on youtube play with Reflex and it looked like very easy mode.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I am not going to play this game. I wont play the game of being the guy who has to reply to 80% of comments in here. I simply voiced my opinion that a lot of the comments here have been quite hyperbolic in nature. Like i have said in almost every post i have no problem with criticism. I voiced my issues with the game as well, its presentation, the lack of proper pacing, the extreme amount of filler content etc etc.

But i wont go as far as to type down some of the things i have seen here. Its not fair either towards the game and its creator who has offered quite a lot to this industry.

Dont worry though i am following gaf advise and staying off this thread cause once GAF's mind is set on somethjng then its pretty much set in stone.

You made a claim about fellow posters.

I guess my mistake expecting you to be able to you know, back up your claim.

Good Lord, people really equating the ladder scene and the jeep ride?

What is it about this game that makes people so desperate to excuse its failings?

RPS article

They really do tend to nail how i feel about games in general. Glad to see that they point out a lot of the big gripes i have with the game. Not the story, but the gameplay side of things.



I am looking forward to seeing if this gets better for them.. or worse. In my case, it was worse, because at that point int he game, i was looking forward to the story to anchor me into keeping myself entertained. Little did i know.

This article is almost exactly how I felt about the game. And actually about other games too! Difficulty curves kill my enjoyment of games.

 

[valkyre]

You know I think the biggest problem here is merely the pacing and structure. For the most part, the elements are all there. They just aren't arranged very well. Would everyone feel the same about the story if it were more cohesive?

Like i said before i do believe the game's most serious shortcomings derive out of those 2 things. Presentation and pacing.

The presentation lacks cohesion and the pacing suffers a lot due to the episodic nature, the filler and cut content and the rushed nature of chapter 2. If the story was presented better, taking its time to offer all the bits and pieces in the right manner, the game would not suffer as much as it seems to do now. The actual core of MGSV's story elements is not bad, it fits well within the series tone, but it is not handled as well as it should.

 

[Berserker976]

You spend the game collecting "Heroism" points. A majority of the game is based on you saving the world from either a nuclear weapon, or a global parasite. Instead of killing a guy who was rewritten to be a backstabbing asshole, you step in and spare his life, kicking him out of MB with a boatload of rations. In Chapter 3 Venom dedicates Diamond Dogs to saving the world from nukes.

Dude is a hero. And since Venom is a vector for Big Boss, it effectively rewrites that you "being" Big Boss is Kojima's way of turning Big Boss into a hero of his own in spite of the stuff he does in Metal Gear.

If anything, Kaz is the hero. Venom is just watching all this unfold from the sidelines. The only time he really acts mercifully is with Huey, and that just comes across as a weird decision. Venom physically dismantles Skull Face but then claims they don't have the right to judge their enemies?

 

[Roni]

You spend the game collecting "Heroism" points. A majority of the game is based on you saving the world from either a nuclear weapon, or a global parasite. You're praised for killing your infected crew. Instead of killing a guy who was rewritten to be a backstabbing asshole, you step in and spare his life, kicking him out of MB with a boatload of rations. In Chapter 3 Venom dedicates Diamond Dogs to saving the world from nukes.

Dude is a hero. And since Venom is a vector for Big Boss, it effectively rewrites that you "being" Big Boss is Kojima's way of turning Big Boss into a hero of his own in spite of the stuff he does in Metal Gear.

Dude wants the world to be locked into an eternal conflict where soldiers are revered as the honorable and admirable people. Instead of killing the world outright and give it a chance to be reborn he wants to slowly torture the world.

And Heroism is just a name, could be Notoriety or Reputation. The reason playing non-lethally is the way to increase reputation faster is the same the B&B Corp babes weren't allowed o be naked as originally intended or why Big Boss is not shown eating babies or why torture scenes use mostly electricity or why Huey is mostly left unscathed in every interrogation: public perception of the game. Look at the amount of Flak GTAV got.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

So in order for something to be comparable as an awkward scene it has to be an absolute copy with what happened in MGSV? So climbing a ladder while listening to Snake Eater was not awkward to you? It was just business as usual? You were expecting it, you found it absolutely fitting and normal?

I have to disagree. It was awkward but because it is Kojima and because its MGS we accept these things and embrace them. So i dont get how it is so far fetched to compare these 2 awkward moments

I mean, if you want to completely ignore those significant differences between the two scenes and say people are only hating it cause it's not MGS3, then fine. But you're missing the picture.

 

[BadWolf]

If anything, Kaz is the hero. Venom is just watching all this unfold from the sidelines. The only time he really acts mercifully is with Huey, and that just comes across as a weird decision. Venom physically dismantles Skull Face but then claims they don't have the right to judge their enemies?

Venom and Miller took revenge for the limbs that they lost.

 

[Stereogatari]

You made a claim about fellow posters.

I guess my mistake expecting you to be able to you know, back up your claim.

This article is almost exactly how I felt about the game. And actually about other games too! Difficulty curves kill my enjoyment of games.

Well the article sucks because (as the author himself admits) you can play how you want. Restart to checkpoint when you get spotted, only give yourself non-lethal weapons, give yourself no weapons and go with OSP. Don't mess about with the tools that make it easy. Hell don't use any weapon etc.

 

[Javier23]

I feel that i have to be clear on this. I think i am entitled to expect respect towards every decent individual referenced in here. showing lack of respect shouldnt be applicable towards members only, but towards all decent people in general.

What the fuck? Hell no. You're entitled to be respected. You have the right to be treated respectfully. You don't have the right for anything else than your own person to be treated with such respect. I'm also entitled to my opinion. I've paid a sizeable amount of money and spent a decent amount of my time on this game. Nobody allowed me to play this out of the goodness of their heart. And I think that the jeep drive is some terrible shit and a waste of that time and money, whoever's responsible for it. I also believe I was sold an unfinished product. I've felt my expectations partly betrayed as a costumer when I decided to buy this product. You nor anybody else get to force me to not voice my opinions on it.

 

[Johndoey]

One last question for the thread. Is anyone ashamed of their words and deeds?

Venom and Miller took revenge for the limbs that they lost.

The action directly contradicts his later positions. It is yet another example of the poor writing in the game.

 

[JayEH]

Dude wants the world to be locked into an eternal conflict where soldiers are revered as the honorable and admirable people. Instead of killing the world outright and give it a chance to be reborn he wants to slowly torture the world.

And Heroism is just a name, could be Notoriety or Reputation. The reason playing non-lethally is the way to increase reputation faster is the same the B&B Corp babes weren't allowed o be naked as originally intended or why Big Boss is not shown eating babies or why torture scenes use mostly electricity or why Huey is mostly left unscathed in every interrogation: public perception of the game. Look at the amount of Flak GTAV got.

Venom doesn't want anything lol. He is a passive character throughout the story. He only steps in to stop torture, save his waifu and let huey go for some reason.

 

[Roni]

Cultures would still be victimized. Wasn't that the point of Peace Walker, that nuclear deterrence wouldn't work anyways? Either people are going to mess with each other regardless or launch once some spy network figures out Skull Face is in charge of the whole plan.


But what about the other parasites of other languages? They exist too, right? At some point, the chain of retaliation is going to eventually hit the rest of the major spoken languages or even Skull Face himself as he speaks English.

Skull Face didn't play Peace Walker, he has his own perspective. And deterrence works: we survived the Cold War.

And in case some small unit decided to launch preemptively, Skull Face had control of the Nukes. Hence the non-detonation test in Africa. Big countries would never fire. Too much to lose.

 

[Reebot]

Venom doesn't want anything lol. He is a passive character throughout the story. He only steps in to stop torture, save his waifu and let huey go for some reason.

"We are not responsible to judge an enemy."

"Except that time we dismembered Skull Face."

 

[JayEH]

One last question for the thread. Is anyone ashamed of their words and deeds?

I am ashamed for being so hyped for this game for 3 years.

 

[foxtrot3d]

"We are not responsible to judge an enemy."

"Except that time we dismembered Skull Face."

"Kaz, we can't create a time paradox."

"What are you talking about, Boss?"

"Listen, just trust me on this one also I'm going to need you to change your first name to McDonnell and regrow your lost limbs. Also, do you like Alaska?"

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

People think the ladder sequence was awkward?

 

[Johndoey]

"We are not responsible to judge an enemy."

"Except that time we dismembered Skull Face."

His face really doesn't look like a skull to me, I would have preferred snake face to be honest.

People think the ladder sequence was awkward?

The ladder sequence was thoughtful, decently executed, and dreadfully boring.

 

[BadWolf]

The action directly contradicts his later positions. It is yet another example of the poor writing in the game.

No, it doesn't. They didn't kill him.

Huey and Skull Face are also hardly comparable.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

His face really doesn't look like a skull to me, I would have preferred snake face to be honest.

I think his name is Skull Face because he has like no skin basically

 

[JayEH]

No, it doesn't. They didn't kill him.

Huey and Skull Face are also hardly comparable.

You're right they didn't kill him. A Metal Gear stepped on him controlled by Psycho Mantis powered by Liquid's rage.

 

[Roni]

My point is this: instead of bashing the story, why not humbly discuss the points that went over your heads or talk about the different interpretations of the game? This game doesn't lack a story. In MGSV, just because a cutscene didn't explain something, doesn't mean it was left unexplained.

Stop the hate.

 

[BadWolf]

You're right they didn't kill him. A Metal Gear stepped on him controlled by Psycho Mantis powered by Liquid's rage.

Huey killed him, actually.

 

[Johndoey]

No, it doesn't. They didn't kill him.

Huey and Skull Face are also hardly comparable.

They are directly comparable situations given Huey's actions and role in the destruction of OG Mama Base.

I think his name is Skull Face because he has like no skin basically

IDk he does okay for himself, he doesn't even look that bad. Honestly if someone had just gotten the poor dear some therapy none of this would have happened. He's rich, influential, and intelligent he could've found someone to shack up with maybe mellow him out.

Also is Face his last name? Does he go by Mr. Face?

 

[Shadow_Lord]

Spoiler Thread| The Man who Trolled the World

Come on guys, it has to be that.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Well the article sucks because (as the author himself admits) you can play how you want. Restart to checkpoint when you get spotted, only give yourself non-lethal weapons, give yourself no weapons and go with OSP. Don't mess about with the tools that make it easy. Hell don't use any weapon etc.

I mean I get that, but that feels kind of like boring game design to me. It's forcing me to create arbitrary ways to entertain myself rather than having the game continue to challenge me. I had the same issue in TW3 where by the mid to end of the game, I felt no challenge. I guess I could have started equipping crappy gear and weapons, but that sounds stupid too. Even without marking or reflex mode, the game is still fairly easy. Maybe I've just played too many video games. I dunno.

 

[Roni]

Huey killed him, actually.

Yeah, and even that has a reason. He knew the parasites would keep his tissue alive, as explained in the tapes. So he made sure the brain was destroyed so he couldn't tell them about the 9 years they spent together.

His word would be the only truth.

 

[RK9039]

One last question for the thread. Is anyone ashamed of their words and deeds?

To be honest I am, because I really thought Kojima actually had a great idea regarding Quiet before the game came out. Turns out it was a pretty shitty excuse. She needs to be naked because she'll suffocate otherwise! beliee dat.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Spoiler Thread| The Man who Trolled the World

Come on guys, it has to be that.

Seconded.

 

[Ashura_MX]

I am ashamed for being so hyped for this game for 3 years.

I am ashamed for eating all the marketing bullshit only to be played like a fiddle.

 

[JayEH]

Huey killed him, actually.

What a great climax to the skullface arc.

 

[NotLiquid]

Dude wants the world to be locked into an eternal conflict where soldiers are revered as the honorable and admirable people. Instead of killing the world outright and give it a chance to be reborn he wants to slowly torture the world.

And Heroism is just a name, could be Notoriety or Reputation. The reason playing non-lethally is the way to increase reputation faster is the same the B&B Corp babes weren't allowed o be naked as originally intended or why Big Boss is not shown eating babies or why torture scenes use mostly electricity or why Huey is mostly left unscathed in every interrogation: public perception of the game. Look at the amount of Flak GTAV got.

Huey is left unscathed because everyone knows the game is bullshitting about his treatment. He still has to get cucked and kill himself for MGS2 to make sense.

And no, it's pretty explicit that it's meant to reflect on how much of a Hero you are since the straight counterpoint, "Demon Points", is something you get by building nukes and being a warmonger. Heroism has nothing to do with notoriety since you lose them for fucking up Mother Base matters, and also for killing your crew during Mission 43. Kojima wanted to push the envelope but it's clear by the way the game is structured as a whole that he got too attached to the idea of Big Boss as a do-gooder, especially since after nuclear disarmament, Venom expressed the will to build for a better future.

Peace Walker already showed several of his villainous tendencies. There was no reason not to double down on them. Even if it's a different matter of the former having a T-rating, if the gruesomeness of MGSV influenced any changes, Kojima should have realized sooner that he can't have his cake and eat it.

 

[BadWolf]

They are directly comparable situations given Huey's actions and role in the destruction of OG Mama Base.

They didn't kill either of them.

Yeah, and even that has a reason. He knew the parasites would keep his tissue alive, as explained in the tapes. So he made sure the brain was destroyed so he couldn't tell them about the 9 years they spent together.

His word would be the only truth.

Pretty much, just kept trying to cover his tracks.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I mean I get that, but that feels kind of like boring game design to me. It's forcing me to create arbitrary ways to entertain myself rather than having the game continue to challenge me. I had the same issue in TW3 where by the mid to end of the game, I felt no challenge. I guess I could have started equipping crappy gear and weapons, but that sounds stupid too. Even without marking or reflex mode, the game is still fairly easy. Maybe I've just played too many video games. I dunno.

The alternative is more restrictive design. Considering all the play styles the game supports, self-imposed restrictions aren't so bad.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

The alternative is more restrictive design. Considering all the play styles the game supports, self-imposed restrictions aren't so bad.

That's fair. Guess the style of game design just wasn't for me.

 

[Roni]

Huey is left unscathed because everyone knows the game is bullshitting about his treatment. He still has to get cucked and kill himself for MGS2 to make sense.

And no, it's pretty explicit that it's meant to reflect on how much of a Hero you are since the straight counterpoint, "Demon Points", is something you get by building nukes and being a warmonger. Kojima wanted to push the envelope but it's clear by the way the game is structured as a whole that he got too attached to the idea of Big Boss as a do-gooder, especially since after nuclear disarmament, Venom expressed the will to build for a better future.

Peace Walker already showed several of his villainous tendencies. There was no reason not to double down on them. Even if it's a different matter of the former having a T-rating, if the gruesomeness of MGSV influenced any changes, Kojima should have realized sooner that he can't have his cake and eat it.

And yet your argument doesn't make sense because they're not extremes. You can be a highly 'heroic' in the eyes of other soldiers and be in level 3 demon form.

Heroism is just a gauge for how much you succeeded while restricting yourself the most.

 

[Johndoey]

What a great climax to the skullface arc.

Skullface died as he lived shot apart by an angry cripple, a man with massive brain damage, and Huey "Heel Turn" Emmerich.

They didn't kill either of them.



Pretty much, just kept trying to cover his tracks.

They should have cut off one arm and one leg to be fair to Skullface.

But mostly they let Huey go so he can try his hand at murder-suicide some years later.

 

[BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!]

One last question for the thread. Is anyone ashamed of their words and deeds?

I'm ashamed for being excited about this…thing we got.

 

[NotLiquid]

And yet your argument doesn't make sense because they're not extremes. You can be a hero in the eyes of your soldiers and be in level 3 demon form.

You lose heroism points by building nukes.

Like I said - heroism has nothing to do with notoriety.

 

[The Silver]

I still can't believe Skully trusted Mantis with such an important part of his plan.

Mantis is an all powerful creepy probably insane psychic little kid that never speaks and has already once before rained hell on your men. Why the hell would you ever trust something like that, even if you are completely convinced no one could ever want more revenge than you(lol) it doesn't mean that Mantis is always gonna be some robot like that.

For all anyone knows Mantis could've switched on a dime and stopped caring about revenge and latched onto something else, he isn't some loyal soldier, he's a fucked up experiment. Hell we see this when he's older, he's clearly become his own man, what if he suddenly decided to become indepedent in the middle of everything?

Skully really deserved to go out like a punk, messing with a wild card like Mantis.

 

[Reebot]

No, it doesn't. They didn't kill him.

Yeah they definitely expected him to survive leaving him bleeding out of stumps where his legs and arms used to be while crushed under flaming wreckage.

Come on dude.

Also" judge" doesn't mean "kill." Typically when someone finds another person worthy of torture and certain death we say they have "judged" that person.

 

[Roni]

You lose heroism points by building nukes.

Like I said - heroism has nothing to do with notoriety.

Do you go to negative heroism? Unless that's the case I can still be 'heroic' while being a demon.

 

[BadWolf]

They should have cut off one arm and one leg to be fair to Skullface.

Two arms and one leg were lost between Miller and Venom.

I still can't believe Skully trusted Mantis with such an important part of his plan.

Mantis is an all powerful creepy probably insane psychic little kid that never speaks and has already once before rained hell on your men. Why the hell would you ever trust something like that, even if you are completely convinced no one could ever want more revenge than you(lol) it doesn't mean that Mantis is always gonna be some robot like that.

Because he needed Mantis for Sally.

And Skullface has a pretty good record with manipulating kids, as seen with Chico and Paz.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

MGO might continue the story... somehow. I have hopes for it after that employee comment.

 

[Johndoey]

I still can't believe Skully trusted Mantis with such an important part of his plan.

Mantis is an all powerful creepy probably insane psychic little kid that never speaks and has already once before rained hell on your men. Why the hell would you ever trust something like that, even if you are completely convinced no one could ever want more revenge than you(lol) it doesn't mean that Mantis is always gonna be some robot like that.

For all anyone knows Mantis could've switched on a dime and stopped caring about revenge and latched onto something else, he isn't some loyal soldier, he's a fucked up experiment. Hell we see this when he's older, he's clearly become his own man, what if he suddenly decided to become indepedent in the middle of everything?

Skully really deserved to go out like a punk, messing with a wild card like Mantis.

So the weird thing is Skullface knows how Mantis's powers work, but did he just kinda accept that he had control over Mantis or did he manage to establish a dialogue with him? Also the plan relies on Skullface being more filled with hate than anyone else, which seems tenuous. Like Skullface knows he doesn't really have direct control over the most important factor of his plan.

Two arms and one leg were lost between Miller and Venom.



Because he needed Mantis for Sally.

And Skullface has a pretty good record with manipulating kids, as seen with Chico and Paz.

I said to be fair to Skullface, I think consistency in revenge is important.

Paz is like 26.

 

[Berserker976]

Two arms and one leg were lost between Miller and Venom.



Because he needed Mantis for Sally.

And Skullface has a pretty good record with manipulating kids, as seen with Chico and Paz.

Well, no. Mantis made Sahelanthropus work but he could just as easily have continued development on it until it was fully functional. Mantis was useful, but ridiculously risky. It makes absolutely no sense that Skull Face would so readily adopt Mantis as such an integral part of his plan. It's just a dumb thing to do.

 

[NotLiquid]

Do you go to negative heroism? Unless that's the case I can still be 'heroic' while being a demon.

Dude you're literally dodging the point here.

Venom's actions throughout the game is being painted through the lens of a hero. Saving the world from several major "threats" throughout the game, amassing fame through a system that rewards heroic acts and is explicit about such, favoring nuclear disarmament, etc. The game is no more unabashedly blatant about this thing when the whole "we're doing this for revenge" angle that the game tried to desperately push is rendered an afterthought since they're eventually justified in stopping him as they find out he's putting the world at a global risk.

Quit moving goal posts.

 

[-Deimos]

MGO might continue the story... somehow. I have hopes for it after that employee comment.

What comment?

 

[BadWolf]

Well, no. Mantis made Sahelanthropus work but he could just as easily have continued development on it until it was fully functional. Mantis was useful, but ridiculously risky. It makes absolutely no sense that Skull Face would so readily adopt Mantis as such an integral part of his plan. It's just a dumb thing to do.

The tech wasn't there.

 

[Joeku]

The alternative is more restrictive design. Considering all the play styles the game supports, self-imposed restrictions aren't so bad.

Man, I am not positive that this correlation is why, but Ground Zeroes was both more limited and a lot more tense than any point in TPP. Fultons and camo and wide open spaces just make everything too...escapable. Tidy.