I...don't know about that. I feel like they'd need something else to not have a sense of same-y-ness from Super Mario Maker and NSMBU (compared to Wii U). Maybe Zelda U? Perhaps Retro's game?
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WSJ: Nintendo Begins Distributing Software Kit for NX (Console + Handheld units)
- Thread starter killercow
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I...don't know about that. I feel like they'd need something else to not have a sense of same-y-ness from Super Mario Maker and NSMBU (compared to Wii U). Maybe Zelda U? Perhaps Retro's game?
To Far Away Times
Member
I dunno, the move felt like a shameless imitation that fell short in accuracy due to not being able to infringe on patents; especially due to cursor drift. Ever try playing a game where you aim at the TV for a period of time? It's gross. Kinnect atleast lead to the Dance Central series, which is arguably the best dance game series ever.
I really can't say anything positive about the move at all. It's a shameless and inferior copycat that is best to only be remembered as a shameless copy. Kinnect's inspiration was obvious, but at least it was bringing a legitimately new and arguably superior experience new to the table.
Lord_Byron28
Member
Oh I thought you meant that you can race other players on both consoles and handhelds as a multi-player mode in SMG3.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Well, it fits a single RT of fp32 RGB (or two of fp16, or one fp16 + fp32 depth, etc). Surely that is of rather minimal usefulness, but it's still useful. Moreover, the competition paid dearly for a similar setup : ]
Mithos
Member
150-199 console it is then.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Your interpretation of what was said, is different to what was actually said. He didn't say he doesn't know 'how they will compete with NX', he said how they (Nintendo) plans to compete with them (Microsoft) remains to be seen. And who can blame him? No one knows what the damn thing is yet. There's also the fact that Nintendo has been a non presence in the home console sector ever since the Wii fizzled out. Whatever they try to do to salvage from the wreckage that was Wii U with NX, Microsoft and Sony don't need to be worried.
This will very much be Nintendo attempting to correct the ship, and if it ends up being a Portable and a piece of stationary hardware, why would Microsoft or Sony for that matter try to copy it? Microsoft has no history in the handheld space and Vita tanked.
The only reason NX is both a handheld and a home console is because the handheld market is pretty much all Nintendo has left. Microsoft and Sony have bigger fish to worry about at this point. Don't kid yourselves.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Man, I'm back in the middle of 2005.
It's entirely possible that NX won't be a success but statements like these are eerily familiar. Maybe we should at least see what NX is before completely writing Nintendo off in the home console business for good.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
I'm not writing Nintendo off. Nothing I said was factually incorrect. And back in 2005, the tech landscape didn't look anywhere near as competitive as it does today, and Nintendo wasn't as far behind it's competitors in the home console space as it is now. Unless 10 million Wii U's sold in 3 years is an acceptable number, then I stand by what I said.
Not quite sure how people can count Sony out of the Handheld race because of Vita for example, but think Nintendo will pull a rabbit out of a hat and stop the negative sales trend of their systems that was staved off briefly by the Wii phenomenon. The only reason Nintendo is releasing another home console is because they have no choice. NX will be them trying their best to stop downward trend. Not some Wii miracle.
Who knows what will happen? All I know is that at the moment, Nintendo, in terms of mindshare and relevance in home console gaming, is probably at the worst point it's ever been since it's entered this industry. I think a lot of people don't realise the gravity of the situation they're in here.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I dunno, if they reveal the console in early 2016 I would think they'd have to at least show a game or two there. NWC would be a great place to reveal a new NX game though.
OrbitalBeard
Member
People were absolutely saying and feeling the same way back in 2005. Nintendo was a complete joke to many and no one cared about what they had to offer next, beyond the hardest of the hardcore. It's a very, very similar situation to today in that respect.
And I absolutely realize the gravity of their situation. It's pretty dire in a lot of ways. That being said, Nintendo has an insane amount of options and opportunities before them, so I'm not worried. I've long accepted the fact that they may be a very different company ten years from now and I'm fine with that. I'll never write them off though.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
They have a lot of options for sure. I don't think them as a company are in that much danger in the short term. Their home console business however is. At least going forward, I expect it to appeal to an extremely niche audience in the same way the Wii U has. Problem is, you then have to start asking yourself how sustainable that is.
While handhelds are in the most immediate danger, I feel the portable version of NX and all that comes with that are where Nintendo needs to focus most of their attention, as the have the most to gain, and it's one of their best USPs.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Nintendo can easily build a home console that will appeal to far more than Wii U's audience. I'm not sure they can currently make something that gets the consumer support of a PS4 but a system with far more success than Wii U is more than obtainable. I mean, Wii U doesn't even appeal to a lot of Nintendo fans.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Nintendo's current situation is part of the reason I'm so excited for the NX, Nintendo knows this is a do or die situation, Iwata knew that. If the NX is a bigger failure than the Wii U then Nintendo can no longer exist as the company they are, they will have to undergo huge changes. Because of this they will definitely be putting their all into the NX and I think it will be surprising, hopefully in a good way.
I think to know that, we have to wonder what part of the Nintendo potential audience did they touch with the WiiU.
They had a Smash Bros, a Mario Kart on it. That's the biggest they have for their home console. Those are the two only games they have, i think, that can really move hardware on a massive scale. If every fans don't show up for those games, i don't know what will make them.
But the real problem is the portable of course. By having legit Smash and MK on 3ds, they gave those fans a reason to not need a WiiU in first place.
Now NX will, obviously, have something new in its portable/home system relation, and that will change things, hopefully for the best. Except if whatever they do end in making the home system, again, a redundant and less appealing offer to fans.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Exactly. 3DS is a legitimate platform for 90+% of Nintendo fans to get their fix.
Also, I've long held to the theory that many Nintendo fans don't buy a console for Smash, Mario Kart, and 2D Mario (Ok, maybe Smash). They buy a console for something like a new 3D Mario, a Zelda game, or Metroid....and since they own the system, they're obviously going to pick up MK, Smash, 2D Mario, etc. because they're great games.
I'm about as big a Nintendo fan as they come and I would never, ever, ever buy a new Nintendo platform mainly for a new Mario Kart. And I love Mario Kart. I feel like Nintendo hedging their bets so heavily on MK and Smash is a bad idea, though I'm sure almost no one will agree with me on that. To me, those are givens that you're going to get every cycle. There needs to be more. A lot more.
Having almost the same setup as what the wii u already was (home console & portable), won't fix nintendo their problems. So they are going to have something unique. Something different from what sony en ms is doing. Nintendo already have said multiple times that they are going to deliver some new experience. They didn't want to show software yet before the right software has been created for this new thing. Everything from whats been said points out that nintendo will come with something new.
ArchedThunder
Banned
NX isn't the same thing as Wii U, Wii U has a controller with a screen that needs to be near the console, the NX idea is that there are two completely different systems that are brothers. They want to create a multiplatform shared ecosystem.
So you honestly think that nintendo is going to create a new console with that kind of setup knowing that the wii u already failed. Besides, this isn't a new gaming experience.
You do know that nintendo is not going to sell both devices as one pack (we already know that it isn't a hybrid). It's to expensive. So keeping that in mind, the console would be the same as the wii u one if they don't have anything else unique to deliver.
Again, nintendo is going to have something unique. The only thing is, they should have the possibility to implement this is in the portable device as within the console device.
Having scrollable wheels is already a thing that they can implement in both devices.
Yeah, people were clearly jumping with joy when the idea of requiring an internet connection to play something you bought at retail was announced for Xbox One.
If you think that the industry is the same as it was 15 years ago, or that the technology hasn't become cheaper and more manageable, I really don't even known what to say.
I think people are counting them out because Sony has basically openly bowed out on further entry into the market, blaming the Vita's abject failure to sell on "the market" instead of their own inability to sell the damn device.
No, a lot of people really don't get it, on both sides of the fence. Some argue that they can do as they've already done and meet with success, others argue that they'll do as they have already done out of sheer ignorance or ambivalence to their current situation.
But both make the assumption that Nintendo won't change how they conduct their business in any meaningful way and I firmly believe that they're both wrong, because the dire circumstances they're in have forced a change to occur, an "evolve or die" moment. And as a business, it's clear what side of that Nintendo would rather be on.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Of course I know they aren't selling them together, that's why this is nothing like the Wii U. The unique thing is the relationship between the two platforms, they want to build an ecosystem.
It needs to be more powerful then ps4 and xbox one.
It needs to have a good ready to use game-engine like ue4 for example.
Lots of support to 3rd part developers and low royalty fees.
And it needs a price that matches ps4 and xbox one.
Skip the portable all over and just make mobilegames that are a bit simpler then the mainconsole-ones, and when used maybe gives you extra things in the main nx games.
Like you can train your pokemons in the mobile and use the extra powers later in the maingame.
It needs to have a good ready to use game-engine like ue4 for example.
Lots of support to 3rd part developers and low royalty fees.
And it needs a price that matches ps4 and xbox one.
Skip the portable all over and just make mobilegames that are a bit simpler then the mainconsole-ones, and when used maybe gives you extra things in the main nx games.
Like you can train your pokemons in the mobile and use the extra powers later in the maingame.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
But they're not wrong. This train of thought that the market is healthy enough to sustain two dedicated handhelds 'because 3DS' doesn't wash with me at all. Not only was the 3DS down YoY in the same year it had heavy hitters like Pokemon, Fire Emblem and Monster Hunter, but sales have slowed down massively in the west, and have been for quite some time.
Vita stood no chance. Sony's only mistake was releasing it in the first place. It's not a device that belongs in the current tech landscape. You'll see exactly what I mean when the market contracts further next generation and NX struggles to crack the 3DS' LTD.
Well when your own console doesn't appeal to Nintendo fans, you need to start asking yourself some serious questions. I don't think it's more than obtainable at all, personally. They could easily build a contemporary piece of hardware, with a modern OS and features, but they don't have the mindshare or good will of 3rd party developers right now.
As of now, I'm going to remain skeptical.
Smash and Mario Kart are definitely system sellers when it comes to consoles. More so than most other Nintendo franchises. In fact Smash is probably one of the most hardcore Nintendo franchises out there. I know loads of people who bought a Wii U solely for Smash 4. The only one I agree isn't, is 2D Mario.
ArchedThunder
Banned
That's a BAD idea, handhelds are by far their biggest market.
……forgetit
Member
The worst idea.
Kind of ironic that it was PSV that actually disappeared into irrelevance when the casual gamer shift towards smartphones started to happen.
True but there was recently an interview with Spike Chunsoft(the definition of niche publisher) and they said the PS4 was their focus going forward.
I'd also point out that the 3DS and Wii U both suffered rather public software delays and cancellations when publishers weren't happy, which hasn't happened with either Sony system this gen.
The DQXI they announced for NX might simply be the 3DS version. There's really no indication that they're interested in a new home console from Nintendo and those factors existed 10/15 years ago and they never bothered with the Gamecube either.
People did say that but it was never really true. The Wii U only got third party games for a few months after launch which means support had been cut at some point. People rationalised Vita still getting big games like Phantasy Star Nova by saying they were greenlit years ago but the Vita is getting even bigger games now, 4 years after launch.
I'm in full agreement that it's short-sighted. Nintendo has to take a large share of the blame though for being more difficult to work with.
Developing for portables was only cheaper because the assets were lower fidelity. Nowadays they're fine selling PS2-in-HD titles on the PS4. Also according to Marvelous developing for 3DS and Vita cost the same so it's probably somehow cheaper to develop for Sony platforms.
Maybe not but we still see software like Senran Kagura and Kenka Bancho underperform on the 3DS.
Answers bolded.
You ignore quite a lot details Spike Chunsofts parent company Dwango was bought last year by Kadokawa Corp, so they basically just align to their known strategy. Considering that they actively supported PS systems I really don´t know what so special about this, it sounds more like PSV will be an afterthought in favour of PS4 instead going forward, considering this handheld gen is about to reach its end, that´s just business as usual.
Anyway, in the same interview they also have shown interest in Steam and NX, no reason to ignore that. Which basically confirms that the PS ecosystem on its own isn´t considered very healthy in Japan.
This time it will be one game that can run on both, but with different settings,
Think more, like pc does with gfx settings and so on...
But I'll agree with Kurt there, it will not just be a console and handheld with much power.
It will be a unique experience, it will suprise us, that is what Iwata said.
A new console/handheld that can play the same game will not be a big suprise and also not be a new experience.
A quote from iwata
That doesn't change the fact that the PS4 is their focus going forward, if they weren't happy with it they definitely wouldn't focus on it. The Steam and NX versions were just small mentions and could just be lipservice at this point. SC's interest in NX may just be Pokemon Mystery Dungeon.
Also Mpl90: The first game sold decently but was outsold first week by the Vita game. The second game cratered, it's clear that audience prefers Vita to the level that they will actively refuse to buy software on the 3DS.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Why are you trying to explain something to me that my posts show that I clearly understand?
In the console space it is a very unique idea and would be surprising to a lot of people.
The Iwata quote is just him saying that they won't talk about the system before they reveal it...
At this point you are just cherry picking statements and sales data. Also the Senran Kagura games on 3DS and PSV don´t even share the same genre.
CaviarMeths
Member
Do you mean VR as an optional peripheral or a central feature of the device? Because if it's the latter, that would be a hell of a thing to bank the future of your company on. The VR market is still virginal. Not a single (modern) device has been sold through to a consumer. Analysts are predicting that VR will have a slower rate of adoption than HDTV, so it could be as long as another decade before we start seeing them in a lot of homes.
Plus, I would think that if Nintendo was cooking up something VR-related, we would have seen a patent or something by now. That would not be possible to keep under wraps.
Well they actually changed Senran Kagura 2 to be more like the Vita games by adding full-3D sections and it still did terribly.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah. There's just not room in the market for two dedicated handhelds. There also just wasn't a lot of interest in the Vita. The main market for games like Uncharted, Killzone etc. is Western core gamers. And most of that market just wants to play them on the big screen when home and has no interest in gaming on the go (and few opportunities due to driving everywhere).
And for the eastern market and the kid market they just can't compete with Pokemon, Monster Hunter and Mario. And, as you note, that market is also contracting.
I disagree. So to experience the new implementation, you'll need to buy 2 devices... Besides they already could do that with 3ds vs wii u. And doesnt deliver a new game experience. I mean not everyone can afford both systems. There are talking about software that uses the new innovation.Something that will suprise us. They already said that they are building an os that can run one game on both devices. So no suprise there.
Vr comes in different ways. Its how you see it. They already patented some kind of 3d sollution for the home console.
While we don't know what NX really is, assuming it's a handheld and a console that let you play the same games, then only one of both is needed. You would not necessarily need both devices to play the games.
Trying following what is actually being said. It was suggested that Nintendo target the people that buy "titty fan-service" games which is a pointless endeavor because those types of games have already been rejected on the 3DS.
You also only have to look at how every franchise is chibified for the 3DS to see the kiddy stigma is in full effect.
We could also take a look at the channels on which Nintendo advertises. For 3DS games in Germany, it's mostly kids TV.
I agree
Father_Brain
Banned
Can they? Maybe. Easily? No. I think you underestimate how much of Wii U's failure was due to structural market factors, as opposed to the obvious mistakes specific to that platform. Is there really compelling evidence that Wii U in particular doesn't appeal to Nintendo fans, as opposed to having to buy two distinct hardware platforms?
Unless they catch lightning in a bottle again, somehow... Wii U may not be the ceiling for what a Nintendo console can hope to sell in the current market, but it's not far below it, either.
(3DS is almost certainly well above the ceiling for what a handheld launching in 2016 can hope to sell, but that's its own can of worms.)
OrbitalBeard
Member
Despite Wii U's myriad amount of problems, I actually believe it could have sold much closer to GCN numbers if Nintendo had been able to get the price down. It's still $300. GCN was $99 around a year or so after launch.
That's not to say it doesn't have plenty of other issues but I'm actually impressed it's sold 10 million units at its current price. Wii U is so overpriced for what it offers.
Now if Nintendo could actually create a more compelling product at a lower price (and I 100% believe they can), they'll have a much more successful system. Feel free to disagree, 'cause there's no way any of us is going to know for sure until next year at the earliest.
Father_Brain
Banned
Agreed.
And yes, Shu Yoshida is absolutely right and Vita was doomed to ultra-niche status before it even launched. Sony made mistakes, but nothing they could have done would have made more than a marginal difference. This shouldn't be controversial at all.
Well, GC numbers would still be pretty shitty, but I think even that's a tad too optimistic. Maybe at $99, it'd be on track to a 15m or so LTD.
And I think their most fundamental problem is not pricing or even anything specific to a given console/handheld; it's that it's getting harder and harder every year for their audience to justify the combined hardware/software cost for Nintendo IP and little else. This is primarily due to the increasing commodification of mobile hardware, which is vastly cheaper and more convenient for the casual/family/kids audience, but also due to competition from PS4/XB1/PC, all of which arguably offer more diverse software lineups than Nintendo can.
Not true at all
OrbitalBeard
Member
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