-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
WSJ: Nintendo Begins Distributing Software Kit for NX (Console + Handheld units)
- Thread starter killercow
- Start date
- Status
test_account
XP-39C²
That is true, but i was thinking more about if the game was suppose to run on both the handheld and console version (assuming thats the route they're going). In that case, it might be easier to do the 3DS version. But that said, unless the console and handheld are in the same ballpark when it comes to hardware specs, i expect to see exclusive games for the systems, or at least for the console.
Do you mean what Shuhei said? If so, he only said that the market was difficult when being asked about a Vita successor.
Just wondering, whats the irony? I wouldnt say that the Vita was aimed and marketed as a casual gaming device.
Exactly
I would say that this more shows that they are interesting in other systems, and see if there is possible to make money there. We will see western developers saying that they are interested in NX too, that doesnt mean that the other systems arent concidered healthy in Europe and USA.
PdotMichael
Banned
DragonQuest XI isn't even officially announced for the NX.
OrbitalBeard
Member
I can't really disagree with any of that. It's why I believe the NX has to be really inexpensive and offer a shared software library between platforms, so people are getting lots of Nintendo games every year, alongside a handful of exclusive third party games. I don't believe a $300+ Nintendo console has much of a chance at success.
?
Low production volumes, non-standard parts. Also, haven't they dropped Wii U production already and been just selling old inventory now?
Quite obvious the fact that the self proclaimed handheld option that was supposed to be aimed at hardcore gamers, became obsolete when there was a notable jump from casual gamers towards smartphones. While on the other hand the "casual" handheld option from Nintendo ended up selling several times more in the exact same market environment.
James Scott
Banned
On the "Nintendo has no console audience anymore because of the Wii U and the 3DS proves their handheld audience is disappearing" thing:
Wii was their most successful console thanks to its uniqueness and price. Wii U was unique, but it launched at 100 dollars more while still being weak. Still mostly going for the same audience with the wrong price and the wrong games. They also gimmped the hardware for BC and low power consumption...who cares about that? The tarnished Wii image that gamers grew resentful of didn't help matters either.
3DS launched with the incorrect price thanks to analysts advice. That hurt its first year and relationships with a lot of 3rd party devs (Konami basically vanished after that, SE didn't invest big like on PSP after KH3D) it got a 80 price cut and started dominating. It oddly raised in price, the new 3DS being more expensive without the charger which is likely why the 3DS has been down. At 150 and 175, the new 3DS would likely have done much better. Despite that it's still considerably cheaper than the Wii U resulting in the console's biggest competition being the manufactures other hardware.
Finally, there's also their marketing which has been lacking since the Wii U launch and after that they just stopped investing in marketing (even lowering their marketing budgets).
I think these are the lessons to be learned, not hard to do so. If you want an cheap system, make it cheap. If you want to make it powerful, make it powerful and charge the right price. Don't skip out on marketing, either. The shared library should handle the games aspect, tho
Wii was their most successful console thanks to its uniqueness and price. Wii U was unique, but it launched at 100 dollars more while still being weak. Still mostly going for the same audience with the wrong price and the wrong games. They also gimmped the hardware for BC and low power consumption...who cares about that? The tarnished Wii image that gamers grew resentful of didn't help matters either.
3DS launched with the incorrect price thanks to analysts advice. That hurt its first year and relationships with a lot of 3rd party devs (Konami basically vanished after that, SE didn't invest big like on PSP after KH3D) it got a 80 price cut and started dominating. It oddly raised in price, the new 3DS being more expensive without the charger which is likely why the 3DS has been down. At 150 and 175, the new 3DS would likely have done much better. Despite that it's still considerably cheaper than the Wii U resulting in the console's biggest competition being the manufactures other hardware.
Finally, there's also their marketing which has been lacking since the Wii U launch and after that they just stopped investing in marketing (even lowering their marketing budgets).
I think these are the lessons to be learned, not hard to do so. If you want an cheap system, make it cheap. If you want to make it powerful, make it powerful and charge the right price. Don't skip out on marketing, either. The shared library should handle the games aspect, tho
Father_Brain
Banned
Core gamers jumped ship to smartphones, too. Just strictly for portable gaming, rather than entirely as with most of Nintendo's Wii/DS audience.
Kissenkopf
Banned
The Gamepad has top hardware inside for the streaming. There was no device before it that could stream games without delay and that did make the consolw so pricey. Besides that are the non-mainstream parts of the console and its BC. You've got an Wii inside of the Wii U too and Iwata wanted all the parts in a small case which doesn't consume much power. That made the Wii U pricey aswell. Was all of it necessary for us gamers? Not really. But it isn't just a decade old tech either just because the games look like PS3/360 games.
Kissenkopf
Banned
So? They clearly announced it on the stream while they showed they games. Okay, they took it back afterwards but clearly not because they realised that they don't develop the gane for the system and more because Nintendo said they are not allowed to talk about it.
lwilliams3
Member
Going with how all of that went down, it is likely as official as Nintendo prefers it to be. A game officially being developed for the NX will result to questions that Nintendo do not want to answer at this time.
Your points about the hardware being old is part of the problem. Since it's technology that other manufacturers have mostly abandoned, there is little likelihood of it reducing in price. On top of that, the Wii U still hasn't sold all of the units projected for FY2013, so it's likely that Nintendo is still sitting on parts that they had produced back in 2013. And from these parts, they can assemble new units whenever they start running down inventory so there hasn't been any place to lower the BOM.
Glorified G
Member
While at the same time that "casual" handheld option is selling several times worse than its own predecessors and will end being the worst selling handheld (sans virtual boy) that Nintendo produced. But only until they launch their next handled of course. Ironic indeed.
The most important thing for me as a gamer is that there´ll actually be a guaranteed successor, due to 3DS beeing a very profitable business segment regardless, at the very least its situation isn´t as dire as to be declared a legacy system due to pure mismanagement and complete failure.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I really like 3ds' autostereoscopy. On the home + handheld collaboration tangent, it'd be cool if the handheld had a 5-6" parallax barrier screen, which could show streaming home titles in full stereoscopy. Not that I expect nintendo to release another autostereoscopic device, just humouring myself.
James Scott
Banned
Father_Brain
Banned
I like autostereoscopic 3D too, but it's ultimately just not worth the tradeoffs in performance, battery life, and (especially) manufacturing cost, and it clearly didn't prove to be a very compelling differentiator for 3DS, hence why it was deemphasized in marketing not that long after launch. They really shouldn't bother.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
100% agreed.
lwilliams3
Member
Father_Brain
Banned
And this is strictly anecdotal, but most people I see playing 3DS in the wild are doing so with 3D turned off.
test_account
XP-39C²
Well, the general consensus seems to be that most Vita owners are core gamers, and that is the audience that they were aiming for as you mention. It just ended up being a less desired system than anticipated. I was just wondering what the relationship between Vita sales and people moving to mobile was, and what made it ironic. Same thing with the 3DS, it was a system aimed towards everyone like the DS was, and the 3DS will end up selling maybe 90 million less units than the DS. I also think that most people expected the 3DS to sell more than the Vita based on that it was the successor to the mega popular DS, and the 3DS also got a big price drop before the Vita was released. I dont think thats ironic either, but fair enough. The shift to phone/tablet gaming was probably inevitable.
By the way, its not necessary to say "quite obvious". If it was obvious, i wouldnt have asked. Isnt that obvious?
Hehe This is why I always facepalm when some people are like "Yeah, they'll reveal the NX at an event that only a fraction of Nintendo's dwindling core fanbase care about (Direct/Digital Event/NWC) and it'll be totally fine, guys!"
Their overall sales and mindshare have only decreased since they started to rely on these glorified podcasts for their major announcements, even though the press proceeds to report the news like it usually does. The E3 Directs were sorta justified when they had nothing exciting to show, but not when they're supposed to be building excitement and confidence in a new platform and their place in the dedicated market is at stake like never before.
Agreed here. I like the 3D and would personally be willing to pay a premium for it but it would be best left out of their next system. I think it will be too based on the comment of them not just iterating on their existing products.
I honestly don't understand the difference. What's the difference between someone watching a video of someone in a studio vs a video of someone stood on a stage? Or whats the difference if they get all their information from IGN anyway?
I never got that criticism of Nintendo Directs. You can say it's a waste of effort considering that most people won't watch them but it's not somehow limiting who gets that information.
Didn't both Sony and MS reveal their latest consoles at events they held for their fan bases and not at major industry events?
And haven't the Directs constantly gotten more views than most E3 videos?
You're trying to correlate declining sales with the use of Directs instead of Nintendo's failure to properly convey a message even at E3.
Directs aren't hurting Nintendo. There's no evidence to suggest otherwise. In fact, they've listed Directs as a huge success in terms of marketing. And they'd know better than anyone on here.
Father_Brain
Banned
The Directs have been great at engaging Nintendo's existing fanbase, and that's definitely important, but I see precious little to suggest they've done much more than preaching to the choir.
In that sense, they're pretty emblematic of Nintendo's fundamental problem going into this gen.
test_account
XP-39C²
Are there any suggestions to what Nintendo could do besides Nintendo Direct to reach more people?
Yeah I wonder this too. What do people think Nintendo do should do instead. They go to major events. The WiiU was unveiled at E3 on stage and it still failed.
Should they just buy every TV station and flood them with constant Nintendo news?
MilkyJoe
Member
A marketing strategy that clearly shows a new product?
I'm not against live press conferences, we already have had great conferences with fantastic pace, very good presentation values and little to none dead times / embarassing moments (and, let's face it, some of them can become E3 moments on their own). Also, while we all know that most of these conferences have fake claps from the audience, it can be exciting for viewers to see how people right in the audience react.
...But the potential of the Directs / Digital Event is fantastic. I mean, the fact that it's not a live presentation, but a pre-recorded video allows for things that are literally impossible in the former's case...like Iwata (;_ fighting Reggie in such a ridiculous shohen's fashion, Robot Chicken's sketches, Nuppets taking the stage. Also, no need to have live translators on stage, since you can just translate the speeches and play the translation live, while people talk (thus, better pace). It allows a more focused, more prepared, better edited presentation as a whole. It can lack the excitement of announcements being dropped in front of an audience, but it can compensate with production values that can't be reached by live conferences due to their own structure.
Actually, here's an honest question: if you show to a random audience, who can be a family, some people in a bar, children, whatever (people who are not in the industry as much as us avid gamers / very interested in the matter), a press conference and a Digital Event with the exact same announcements, what do you think they will prefer? The one where there are people speaking for minutes on stage about the upcoming announcement, with small dead times due to translations needed / necessity to prepare setups, or the one where there are interviews but all edited so it can be more flashy, foreign speakers already dubbed and moments like two chiefs battling like it's the battle that ends them all? What's more exciting? Personally, I'd say that the latter is more attractive for a random audience. That's if it's well executed.
We've all seen bad press conferences and, at the same time, we've all seen mediocre / bad Directs / Digital Event. 2014's Digital Event is a great representation of the potential of a pre-recorded presentation with higher production values / better editing / no dead times. 2015's Digital Event...wasn't, due to what's been announced and some peculiar choices (why another Yoshi's Wolly World interview? Why such a long StarFox Zero's interview? And that ending...2012 all over again ), which aren't a problem of the mean, but of what's been selected as content.
Also...what's wrong with the Nintendo World Championship? This year's edition has been pretty well received, the competition got interesting at the end, by letting the finalists challenge each other in Mario Maker, the audience was really into it, and it's also a live event, with actual fans. Yeah, not just journalists, but actual fans who want to see what happens. Isn't that an even better kind of live event, where it's your own fanbase joining the fun in the audience?
Also, I don't want to post it again, but this year's Directs (before E3) were seeing all-time highs in terms of both live and later viewerships, much more than past year.
So, yeah, I think they can be a good choice for showing brand new consoles for the first time, if well executed (more Digital Event 2014, less Digital Event 2015).
Moreover, since Kimishima has already stated there will be some changes in the Direct format, I seriously wonder what's going to change. Maybe, they'll all be more like the Digital Event, with more showmainship / production values, and the actual Digital Event will evolve further; maybe, we'll start seeing them actually broadcasted on TV alongside YouTube / Twitch (maybe NWC on Disney XD was a sort-of-precedent to this?)...
...But the potential of the Directs / Digital Event is fantastic. I mean, the fact that it's not a live presentation, but a pre-recorded video allows for things that are literally impossible in the former's case...like Iwata (;_
fighting Reggie in such a ridiculous shohen's fashion, Robot Chicken's sketches, Nuppets taking the stage. Also, no need to have live translators on stage, since you can just translate the speeches and play the translation live, while people talk (thus, better pace). It allows a more focused, more prepared, better edited presentation as a whole. It can lack the excitement of announcements being dropped in front of an audience, but it can compensate with production values that can't be reached by live conferences due to their own structure.Actually, here's an honest question: if you show to a random audience, who can be a family, some people in a bar, children, whatever (people who are not in the industry as much as us avid gamers / very interested in the matter), a press conference and a Digital Event with the exact same announcements, what do you think they will prefer? The one where there are people speaking for minutes on stage about the upcoming announcement, with small dead times due to translations needed / necessity to prepare setups, or the one where there are interviews but all edited so it can be more flashy, foreign speakers already dubbed and moments like two chiefs battling like it's the battle that ends them all? What's more exciting? Personally, I'd say that the latter is more attractive for a random audience. That's if it's well executed.
We've all seen bad press conferences and, at the same time, we've all seen mediocre / bad Directs / Digital Event. 2014's Digital Event is a great representation of the potential of a pre-recorded presentation with higher production values / better editing / no dead times. 2015's Digital Event...wasn't, due to what's been announced and some peculiar choices (why another Yoshi's Wolly World interview? Why such a long StarFox Zero's interview? And that ending...2012 all over again
), which aren't a problem of the mean, but of what's been selected as content.Also...what's wrong with the Nintendo World Championship? This year's edition has been pretty well received, the competition got interesting at the end, by letting the finalists challenge each other in Mario Maker, the audience was really into it, and it's also a live event, with actual fans. Yeah, not just journalists, but actual fans who want to see what happens. Isn't that an even better kind of live event, where it's your own fanbase joining the fun in the audience?
Also, I don't want to post it again, but this year's Directs (before E3) were seeing all-time highs in terms of both live and later viewerships, much more than past year.
So, yeah, I think they can be a good choice for showing brand new consoles for the first time, if well executed (more Digital Event 2014, less Digital Event 2015).
Moreover, since Kimishima has already stated there will be some changes in the Direct format, I seriously wonder what's going to change. Maybe, they'll all be more like the Digital Event, with more showmainship / production values, and the actual Digital Event will evolve further; maybe, we'll start seeing them actually broadcasted on TV alongside YouTube / Twitch (maybe NWC on Disney XD was a sort-of-precedent to this?)...
test_account
XP-39C²
Sure, but they do also have TV ads and such. Just honestly wondering if there are any better ideas than Nintendo Directy, or what Nintendo could do different or in addition
Mithos
Member
Sure, but they do also have TV ads and such. Just honestly wondering if there are any better ideas than Nintendo Directy, or what Nintendo could do different or in addition
Yeah it should be thing of the day/week, officially be the video listed on the channels of the top names on youtube, twitch and so on, be on the top talk shows and so on.
They need to go all out.
Sure, but they do also have TV ads and such. Just honestly wondering if there are any better ideas than Nintendo Directy, or what Nintendo could do different or in addition
A killer app on day one is essential.
Also the US audience really buys into the hype when celebrities appear on screen enjoying it.
I'd say: Jessica Alba playing a new metroid, with unrivaled graphics and playable on home nx and portable nx. With online multiplayer having auto aim and pointless achievement system.
That's the recipe for a market leader.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
My favorite part about this conversation is that we had some poster in this thread trying to argue that 3D added nothing in additional coats.
Father_Brain
Banned
As I alluded to earlier, Nintendo's fundamental problem is that a consumer's decision of whether or not to buy Nintendo hardware is, overwhelmingly, founded on how much value one attaches to the Mario, Zelda, etc. IP.
Now, the audience that values said IP highly enough to pay $150-300 for the privilege of being able to play $40-60 Mario and Zelda games is not going to disappear overnight (even if some have misinterpreted my pessimism about NX to imply otherwise). But every year, that particular value proposition gets harder and harder to defend in a world where mobile offers a vast array of free/cheap games on hardware you already own, and PS4/XB1/PC arguably offer a more diverse range of core gaming experiences even beyond the AAA space.
IMO, the best real chance they have of proving me wrong and regaining relevance in the hardware space - though I think it's a slim one - is if they do everything they can to broaden the definition of "Nintendo first-party IP" beyond the relative handful of properties most commonly associated with that phrase. And to be clear, I'm thinking Splatoon here, not an AAA dudebro shooter or something else aimed directly at the PS4/XB1 audience.
This is related to the above, actually. In short, no matter what marketing tactics they employ, Nintendo can't hope to effectively reach beyond their existing fanbase if the NX doesn't have appeal beyond their existing fanbase. And that can only happen if their software offering is very different from what people expect from a Nintendo platform.
As much as they obviously need Mario, Zelda, Smash, Kirby, Pokemon, etc., there's nothing they can do with those IP that's likely to halt their current downward trajectory, let alone reverse it.
I was being generous, lol.
Now, the audience that values said IP highly enough to pay $150-300 for the privilege of being able to play $40-60 Mario and Zelda games is not going to disappear overnight (even if some have misinterpreted my pessimism about NX to imply otherwise). But every year, that particular value proposition gets harder and harder to defend in a world where mobile offers a vast array of free/cheap games on hardware you already own, and PS4/XB1/PC arguably offer a more diverse range of core gaming experiences even beyond the AAA space.
IMO, the best real chance they have of proving me wrong and regaining relevance in the hardware space - though I think it's a slim one - is if they do everything they can to broaden the definition of "Nintendo first-party IP" beyond the relative handful of properties most commonly associated with that phrase. And to be clear, I'm thinking Splatoon here, not an AAA dudebro shooter or something else aimed directly at the PS4/XB1 audience.
This is related to the above, actually. In short, no matter what marketing tactics they employ, Nintendo can't hope to effectively reach beyond their existing fanbase if the NX doesn't have appeal beyond their existing fanbase. And that can only happen if their software offering is very different from what people expect from a Nintendo platform.
As much as they obviously need Mario, Zelda, Smash, Kirby, Pokemon, etc., there's nothing they can do with those IP that's likely to halt their current downward trajectory, let alone reverse it.
I was being generous, lol.
I definitely agree Nintendo needs more relevant software.
My point was more that Directs aren't hurting them.
If anything, their last love E3 conference hurt them more simply because their message wasn't clear. But they've done much better with Directs and Digital events.
Father_Brain
Banned
I don't think Directs have *hurt* them, either. But if -if- NX is meant to do more than cater to existing Nintendo fans, they're not necessarily the best approach.
But Directs are a part of the entire marketing process. And Nintendo doesn't solely rely on them. Using them for announcements isn't going to hurt sales.
But as Iwata and Miyamoto have both said, they're trying to leverage their IPs more. Apps and theme parks and shows and movies and toys. These are what will get people in and buying. Then those new people become interested in Directs and they grow their base.
quackamole
Member
What is there to argue about? PS/Xbox and especially PC has far more games in far more variety of genres compared to Nintenso's ecosystem.
IsntChrisL
Member
Nintendo finally recognizes that their IP's are going to continue to lose value if they don't make use of them. They were content with giving the Wii U almost zero new IP's and coasting on the popularity of tentpole franchises. They tried harder to grab the family market but failed to recognize that kids today relate more with Minecraft than Mario.
That's why the Universal Studios deal is happening. That's why you're hearing more and more rumors about Nintendo-backed films and TV shows. They need to make these names something people grow up with again. There's a lot of people that have fond memories of Nintendo games, but they no longer purchase Nintendo hardware. That does dick all for Nintendo.
As far as the reveal of the hardware goes. If they wait until E3 I don't think it should be done in a Direct. Get it on Spike like the other guys and get yourself exposure to an audience that most definitely would not have tuned in to your overloaded video stream, let alone even known about it. It also gives the gaming sites a chance to live-stream it on their own channels. Nintendo can broadcast it on their own site too, this doesn't change that. Nintendo Directs may receive a lot of viewers but they don't get nearly the same amount of exposure as the competition because of the way they purposefully limit their audience. This year's E3 Direct made sense because they had fuck all to show for themselves. But I feel like if they want to come back, they should come back in a big way.
That's why the Universal Studios deal is happening. That's why you're hearing more and more rumors about Nintendo-backed films and TV shows. They need to make these names something people grow up with again. There's a lot of people that have fond memories of Nintendo games, but they no longer purchase Nintendo hardware. That does dick all for Nintendo.
As far as the reveal of the hardware goes. If they wait until E3 I don't think it should be done in a Direct. Get it on Spike like the other guys and get yourself exposure to an audience that most definitely would not have tuned in to your overloaded video stream, let alone even known about it. It also gives the gaming sites a chance to live-stream it on their own channels. Nintendo can broadcast it on their own site too, this doesn't change that. Nintendo Directs may receive a lot of viewers but they don't get nearly the same amount of exposure as the competition because of the way they purposefully limit their audience. This year's E3 Direct made sense because they had fuck all to show for themselves. But I feel like if they want to come back, they should come back in a big way.
James Scott
Banned
Don't get what wrong with directs. They usually don't get more views because they are announced a day in advance. The news is still put up on sites for others to see after the showing.
Single game directs likely don't work as well, but it's a good way to get controlled info out there.
And while I might be on the optimistic side, I'm pretty certain things aren't as dire as people are saying.
Nintendo's current mind share might be a bit low, but that doesn't mean they can't recover. 3DS was successful only on exclusives so it's not like Nintendo's appeal is totally gone.
Do they need to do something to increase mindshare? Totally, and hopefully the rumored movies/TV shows and mobile games do the trick and I'm pretty sure it won't be "3DS is the max they can reach on portables, Wii U is the max on consoles"
(It doesn't work that way)
Single game directs likely don't work as well, but it's a good way to get controlled info out there.
And while I might be on the optimistic side, I'm pretty certain things aren't as dire as people are saying.
Nintendo's current mind share might be a bit low, but that doesn't mean they can't recover. 3DS was successful only on exclusives so it's not like Nintendo's appeal is totally gone.
Do they need to do something to increase mindshare? Totally, and hopefully the rumored movies/TV shows and mobile games do the trick and I'm pretty sure it won't be "3DS is the max they can reach on portables, Wii U is the max on consoles"
(It doesn't work that way)
This is about to get a little more interesting. Look what I found
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/sivanandh-ramadass/25/364/5b0
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/sivanandh-ramadass/25/364/5b0
Herb Alpert
Banned
This is about to get a little more interesting. Look what I found
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/sivanandh-ramadass/25/364/5b0
Ultra high end console?
...
...
Nintendo?!?
Not sure...
- Status