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[Vena]

Not so far but if publishers/hardware vendors were actually giving consumers what they want the dedicated industry wouldn't be in shambles over there.

Those prestige titles are untenable long term. They'll fold entirely into mobile if they really do as you say and completely brush aside their actual market desires for some illusory dream of "reviving consoles".

 

[neurosisxeno]

And how would 8 A72 cores compare to 4 Zen cores?

There's no way of knowing, but it is very unlikely Zen shows up in NX unless it's going to launch much later than expected, or Nintendo will get first dibs on Zen--a horrible strategy.

 

[Nostremitus]

There's no way of knowing, but it is very unlikely Zen shows up in NX unless it's going to launch much later than expected, or Nintendo will get first dibs on Zen--a horrible strategy.

They wouldn't be getting consumer zen or ARM chips at any rate, they'd be getting custom silicon that would need to be fabbed regardless of the architecture chosen. "First dibs" wouldn't mean anything at all from a supply standpoint unless the custom chips have poor quality so few of them come out usable, but that's a risk with any large custom silicon.

 

[TriBlade]

Ok, here my launch prediction just for fun since there isn't any news.

Nintendo Account

- game tie to account
- buy game once and be able to play it on console/handheld
- console game can't be play on handheld unless designed that way


Console

- Same level as the XBO/PS4
- able to play handheld games
- share the same control scheme as handheld

1. "Physical" SKU - $350

a. 500GB storage w/ external hard drive support
b. Include Disc/cartridge slots for console/handheld game

2. "Digital" SKU - $300

a. 1TB storage w/ external hard drive support


Handheld - $175

a. between the level of Vita and Wii U
b. 64GB storage w/ SD card support
c. cartridge slot for physical game
d. play handheld game only
e. share the same control scheme as console

 

[James Scott]

Sales have been mediocre at best from the beginning and show an obvious negative trend, it´s a sinking ship that´s one of the reasons we see more PSV games("IPs") beeing released as PSV+PS4 multiplat in an almost desperate attempt to transfer the audience to PS4.

There's probably significant overlap between those people and the people that would never touch a Nintendo system due to kiddy stigma.



3DS got the biggest software but it only really three series(MH, DQ, YW). Youkai Watch only became big on 3DS and now Vita is getting DQ games too(though notably not mainline).

Devs/Pubs have already decided PS4 is their next home.

EDIT:

True but the fact that all those publishers see PS4(and Steam) as more natural paths is damming in the first place. Of course NX isn't formally announced yet so there could be some betrayaltons.

The reason a lot of devs made games for portables was because it's cheaper and a bigger audience, that will probably be true with NX as well (in Japan)
If the NX does well I'm pretty sure devs will support it. Vita+PS4 works in Japan because together it's a big enough audience, not sure if that would be the case without the Psv (...in Japan)

Ok, here my launch prediction just for fun since there isn't any news.
Console
- Same level as the XBO/PS4
- able to play handheld games
- share the same control scheme as handheld
1. "Physical" SKU - $350
a. 500GB storage w/ external hard drive support
b. Include Disc/cartridge slots for console/handheld game
2. "Digital" SKU - $300
a. 1TB storage w/ external hard drive support
Handheld - $175

That's close to what I'd imagine, but making two SKUs at 300/350 is worthless. The Wii U basically only sold deluxe units while the basic ones had to be repurposed. At most make both 300 with the trade off for the digital one being the extra hard drive space

They'll probably have a thing for the press to play the system, conduct interviews, etc. and then reveal the system digitally to consumers. Then the articles and impressions will go up immediately after the stream is over.

And of course, NWC is going to have the first NX game.

That would be a great way to reveal a game, though NWC and the pre e3 event took a lot away from their actual e3 event. I guess announcing it at the reveal show and having the first gameplay there could work

 

[Lebon14]

Let's take a look at one example. Atmel has an EPROM (granted, a cart game would be looking for ROM, not EPROM, but it's a decent substitute) that retains 512kB of data for $2. It takes 1000 kB to equal 1 megabyte, so that's roughly $4 per megabyte. If this were an N64 game, say SM64 (which was 8 megabytes), that'd be $32 for the cart. If it were a PS1 or Saturn game, let's say at 650 megabytes, that'd be $2,600 for the game. It's no wonder so many devs jumped ship that gen.

FYI: 1MB = 1024KB, not 1000. Unless you siad 1000 to ease up the calculus.

 

[Terrell]

It all depends on how many of each installed base there is and how many the expect to sell, possibly for each platform, and how much cross over there is.

If it's a game that most people play on console, why should they pay for expensive cartridges. If it's a game more suited to handhelds why charge console players more?

I agree that it's simpler all around but I imagine making a cartridge is an order of magnitude or more cost than a disc. If Nintendo doesn't eat that costs publishers will be pissed off.

When you factor in logistics, retail space requirements and other factors, the cost difference shrinks significantly. And there's another factor I've considered that I will detail below that makes it a better fit, which is tangentially related to the piracy factor.

Seems like we're on the same page here, Thraktor. I just can't get on the cartridge bandwagon. It doesn't make sense to me. I like this quote from Beyond3D forums: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/...l-disks-ssd-cards-and-download.42843/page-109

To me, the most logical solution would be 2 skus. One full-featured box w/ both an optical drive and HDD at ~$299. At the same time, a smaller digital only box with just the HDD at ~$250.

Discs just make sense for getting the job done...along w/ an HDD and internet connection of course. If anything, Game Cards could possibly be phased out before discs are, as they are the pricier medium and lack the convenience of the all-digital mobile market. Portable software usually carries with it a smaller file size as well, and so it should be easier to migrate this market to digital.

Considering that movies and games are essentially the ONLY industries still using discs, and sales of disc-based media are significantly flagging in both of those industries for obviously different reasons, I wouldn't bet on discs outlasting solid-state media any time soon.

2 SKUs with or without a disc drive is a non-starter. Plain and simple, there is no logic to such a thing. And retailers would only stock the one that allows them to sell games to consumers in the first place if the only difference is that one doesn't offer any physical media option (see: PSP Go), so it's an abstraction in SKUs that would never EVER fly.

Cartridges certainly have technical advantages over discs (they always have), but the only one that's really going to factor into Nintendo's decision is cost. By the time the cost difference is truly insignificant digital downloads will have completely supplanted them both.



A disc costs a couple of cents. A 64GB flash cart (which is what you'd be looking at to hold both home console and handheld assets) costs a couple of dollars. That's two orders of magnitude in decimal, or six or seven orders of magnitude in binary, if you prefer. However you define it it's an added expense that cuts into profits, and not just Nintendo's profits, but also third parties'. Nintendo aren't exactly in a position where forcing a lower software margin on third parties is going to do them any good.

There's nothing to suggest that a lower software margin to the extent you're thinking would happen. The savings in logistics, retail space and other factors are BIG money-sinks in software distribution, and if this solution resolves those issues to a significant degree, all the better.

But there's also this...

Will probably be part of the entire NX environment.

Nintendo should strongly consider NX for China. Not sure if popularity there would lead to piracy or any other issues, but the population there is insane. Being able to deliver the cheapest option (portable) there would be a big boost for them.

People have been saying "what's the benefit of big 3rd-party games being made for handhelds" and this finally jumped out at me: faster entry into emerging markets for Nintendo and 3rd-parties alike.

Let's say Nintendo takes its handheld hardware, makes a console box out of it and starts selling it in India, China, etc. within the first year at an extremely attractive price point, alongside the standard console hardware for those who can afford it. If the content that plays on both is there, 3rd-parties make great gains.

It also would be a great reason to push cartridges as the universal storage medium, to curb piracy as much as humanly possible compared to optical media releases, which would COMPLETELY offset any additional cost of cartridges over discs via the additional sales in those emerging markets.

Being able to move into emerging markets much faster, with content available that could also be played on the standard console config when it reaches a mass-market price in the region, that's a HUGE boon for everyone involved. It's going to depend on how serious and aggressively Nintendo wants to position itself in those markets.

A lower price isn't going to do much by itself in China. The biggest factors are going to be value and software that's well suited to Chinese audiences. Nintendo is currently unable to provide either of these in China, and that's why their performance there is extremely bad. It's a market they should definitely focus on, but it's not going to be easy.

Where do you live? Because I live in Vancouver, which has a high volume of Asian immigrants, and of the people I see taking a 3DS around with them in public? Chinese immigrants.

Availability and efficacy of its other subsidiaries has been a primary factor that has worked against Nintendo in the other Asian markets, but I'll need actual data that says their games don't appeal to Chinese people, when I see their games played by a huge bulk of Chinese people in public on a regular basis.

SE have not even announced it for Xbone but will make a port for NX? Not happening unless something big happens.

FFVII on NX would sell more copies in Japan and not close them off from being able to sell more copies in the West. So there's a potential to gain more sales with Nintendo than there is with Microsoft.

And this is an effect that we will potentially see among multiple Japanese publishers, who will opt for a Nintendo-Sony multiplat situation due to an increase in sales by virtue of being on 2 platforms Japanese consumers would actually buy.

There's probably significant overlap between those people and the people that would never touch a Nintendo system due to kiddy stigma.

That stigma is much more of a Western thing. Japan isn't as hung up about it as we are and definitely not universal.

Did they say which version? The 3DS or the PS4 one?

Since both the handheld or console NX devices will be significantly more powerful than the 3DS, I think you can rule the 3DS version out by default, since it'd be a hell of a lot easier to port down than port up in that regard.

No, they are. And you're grossly underestimating how much carts would cost for today's games, as big as they are.

...

And yes, they could just opt for cheaper ROM options, but there's a huge issue in doing that: cheaper ROM options is they have a shelf life; longer than SD cards yes but if having a shelf life on the data your memory can retain is essentially going to kill any collectible tendencies, why use carts at all? Why not just use SD cards and digital download platforms?

Hasn't stopped people with optical media games, which also have a shelf life, so why would it stop them in this situation?

And this is assuming that they use a ROM solution at all, since there's been great advancements made in repurposing RAM solutions into read-only uses.

 

[EhoaVash]

Ok, here my launch prediction just for fun since there isn't any news.

Nintendo Account

- game tie to account
- buy game once and be able to play it on console/handheld
- console game can't be play on handheld unless designed that way


Console

- Same level as the XBO/PS4
- able to play handheld games
- share the same control scheme as handheld

1. "Physical" SKU - $350

a. 500GB storage w/ external hard drive support
b. Include Disc/cartridge slots for console/handheld game

2. "Digital" SKU - $300

a. 1TB storage w/ external hard drive support


Handheld - $175

a. between the level of Vita and Wii U
b. 64GB storage w/ SD card support
c. cartridge slot for physical game
d. play handheld game only
e. share the same control scheme as console

2 console sku is destined for failure lol
Also this different bundle thing ..isn't it going to end up like the ps4/vita situation ??? Where most people will get either the handheld or console version and not bother with the other ..I'm going to assume most will get handheld version cause its cheaper and also portable pokemon is still popular as fuck, and will see less and less reason to get console nx.Nintendo is doomed.

 

[sörine]

I'll have to look into those guys but realistically speaking how much can they hope to do? Even EPROM is going to be costly once the sizes start to add up, and I doubt a manufacturer is going to go all-out in a flash-rivaling solution for what is, by all measures (and with much respect) a video game company. Masked ROM chips (the kind old cart games used) would be even more expensive per bit, I imagine.

Even mobile games can get pretty big in size, as with handhelds. But console games these days are plainly massive in file sizes, and that's with good compression. I don't think a pure ROM solution could work with today's games unfortunately, while still being affordable for publishers and especially consumers.

Macronix is the supplier Nintendo uses for DS (EPROM) and 3DS (NROM) media. They're the largest ROM manufacturer in the world I believe.

I think NX games on 4/8/16GB cards would be fine for most publishers. Current console game file sizes are bloated due to data replication (to lower seek times) and often using uncompressed assets.

 

[4Tran]

Let's say Nintendo takes its handheld hardware, makes a console box out of it and starts selling it in India, China, etc. within the first year at an extremely attractive price point, alongside the standard console hardware for those who can afford it. If the content that plays on both is there, 3rd-parties make great gains.

Even though India has a huge population and has a quickly growing economy, it's still not a significant growth market for video games. Right now, it's sitting well behind countries like Russia and Mexico.

Where do you live? Because I live in Vancouver, which has a high volume of Asian immigrants, and of the people I see taking a 3DS around with them in public? Chinese immigrants.

Availability and efficacy of its other subsidiaries has been a primary factor that has worked against Nintendo in the other Asian markets, but I'll need actual data that says their games don't appeal to Chinese people, when I see their games played by a huge bulk of Chinese people in public on a regular basis.

Nintendo actually sells the 3DS in China through iQue. However, it has performed very poorly. A lot of the blame for this can be laid on Nintendo only ever releasing 10 games in Simplified Chinese.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Macronix is the supplier Nintendo uses for DS (EPROM) and 3DS (NROM) media. They're the largest ROM manufacturer in the world I believe.

I think NX games on 4/8/16GB cards would be fine for most publishers. Current console game file sizes are bloated due to data replication (to lower seek times) and often using uncompressed assets.

There are Wii U games that wouldn't fit on 16GB cards (some of which are even Nintendo published), and file sizes are only going to go up as fidelity increases, as well as in the likely case that many games will ship with 2 sets of assets. Having 32GB and probably even 64GB variants at launch is going to be essential. This is especially important for third party support. They don't want a repeat of the GameCube mini-disc thing.

 

[ElFly]

There are Wii U games that wouldn't fit on 16GB cards (some of which are even Nintendo published), and file sizes are only going to go up as fidelity increases, as well as in the likely case that many games will ship with 2 sets of assets. Having 32GB and probably even 64GB variants at launch is going to be essential. This is especially important for third party support. They don't want a repeat of the GameCube mini-disc thing.

Mini-disc debacle only happened because there were other two competing consoles with roughly similar specs, but with DVDs as standard media.

Media will be made to fit on whatever cart there is.

 

[James Scott]

2 console sku is destined for failure lol
Also this different bundle thing ..isn't it going to end up like the ps4/vita situation ??? Where most people will get either the handheld or console version and not bother with the other ..I'm going to assume most will get handheld version cause its cheaper and also portable pokemon is still popular as fuck, and will see less and less reason to get console nx.Nintendo is doomed.

Wouldn't matter if one chooses to get one over the other if the library is mostly shared. Just means to focus more on software that works on both. If the console sells well enough then they can get more exclusives on it, tho.

 

[Pokemaniac]

FYI: 1MB = 1024KB, not 1000. Unless you siad 1000 to ease up the calculus.

Actually, hardware makers (especially the ones which make hard drives) often use the powers of 10 definitions of the prefixes. I'm not 100% sure whether solid state memory typically uses powers of 10 or powers of 2, though.

Software is typically powers of 2.

Mini-disc debacle only happened because there were other two competing consoles with roughly similar specs, but with DVDs as standard media.

Media will be made to fit on whatever cart there is.

And an NX which only takes up to 16GB carts wouldn't be a repeat of this situation because...?

 

[ElFly]

Actually, hardware makers (especially the ones which make hard drives) often use the powers of 10 definitions of the prefixes. I'm not 100% sure whether solid state memory typically uses powers of 10 or powers of 2, though.

Software is typically powers of 2.



And an NX which only takes up to 16GB carts wouldn't be a repeat of this situation because...?

Point to me the equivalent Playstation and Xbox portable handhelds with bigger storage coming from Sony and Microsoft.

Gamecube discs were only a problem due to their relative size to the competition.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Point to me the equivalent Playstation and Xbox portable handhelds with bigger storage coming from Sony and Microsoft.

Gamecube discs were only a problem due to their relative size to the competition.

NX isn't just a handheld though. There is also a console SKU.

 

[ElFly]

NX isn't just a handheld though. There is also a console SKU.

Oh I thought we were only talking about the handheld side.

Me thinks there will be several options here, starting from dual media, or downloadable assets.

Assuming they even force unified media for handheld and consoles. It's really dubious they do.

 

[EhoaVash]

Wouldn't matter if one chooses to get one over the other if the library is mostly shared. Just means to focus more on software that works on both. If the console sells well enough then they can get more exclusives on it, tho.

I think it would need to matter. Even with same software, you don't want handheld hardware eating up the console hardware, especially when we're assuming some games made for console won't have handheld support, vice versa. I can see people/3rd party ignoring console altogether since it is more expensive and not a lot people have it. You'll have your typical Nintendo die hard getting both, but majority will just support 1 hardware. Like vita/ps4 and wii u/3ds...same Nintendo software won't matter sure it will "save droughts, but you'll recognize quickly what was made in mind for handheld and what wasn't.
Thus getting both hardware ill feel redundent if you're not a Nintendo gamer.

I want them to bundle the handheld sku and console nx but I like to dream too much as that would be over expensive failure.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Oh I thought we were only talking about the handheld side.

Me thinks there will be several options here, starting from dual media, or downloadable assets.

Assuming they even force unified media for handheld and consoles. It's really dubious they do.

Using the same media for both vastly reduces friction for the shared library concept and solves a bunch of logistical issues. It's a win-win for Nintendo.

 

[nephilimdj]

If Vita has shown anything, cart sizes do hurt. Its been a common thing in the last 1-2 years for games to come with free Japanese Audio DLC.
MH5 most likely be over 8GB, if u see the jump from MH2FU to 4.

 

[sörine]

There are Wii U games that wouldn't fit on 16GB cards (some of which are even Nintendo published), and file sizes are only going to go up as fidelity increases, as well as in the likely case that many games will ship with 2 sets of assets. Having 32GB and probably even 64GB variants at launch is going to be essential. This is especially important for third party support. They don't want a repeat of the GameCube mini-disc thing.

I don't think 16GB would be the maximum, just the ceiling for what most publishers would bother with. Sort of like how publishers go for 2-4GB on 3DS even though 8GB capacities are available.

 

[TriBlade]

2 console sku is destined for failure lol
Also this different bundle thing ..isn't it going to end up like the ps4/vita situation ??? Where most people will get either the handheld or console version and not bother with the other ..I'm going to assume most will get handheld version cause its cheaper and also portable pokemon is still popular as fuck, and will see less and less reason to get console nx.Nintendo is doomed.

If the "NX Platform" is what people speculated it to be, it really doesn't matter which one they chose. Like people have said in this thread, Japan will favor the handheld and the US will favor the console, so I don't think it's as one sided as you think.

Also, I don't think every console game will be playable on the handheld because some developer might want to take advantage of the console graphic capabilities.

 

[ElFly]

Using the same media for both vastly reduces friction for the shared library concept and solves a bunch of logistical issues. It's a win-win for Nintendo.

Assuming that, I think that making games that can play on a handheld and scale up to a modern console is really fucking hard; it means every nintendo game is now equivalent to a cross generation game, that probably has to run on something less powerful than a PS3, and a console that may be as powerful as a PS4 (or maybe not; the less poweful the console side is, and the more powerful the handheld is, the easier development becomes for nintendo).

Me thinks those limitations will bring down the file sizes on consoles; 16GB is a reasonable limit on console initially; we are so used to downloads right now, that the console may download the rest of the assets later. 16GB should be more than enough for a handheld Vita-like or even a little more powerful. Priority will be on the handheld imho. IF they are going with a unified library, which I don't buy, except for select nintendo titles.

If you think third parties may have a problem with 16GB game size, imagine the seizures they will have if they are forced to make games that support both the handheld and console. Nintendo will need to let 3rd parties to make console-only games if they want ports at all. And along with that, a bigger media size for the console side, be it blurays, bigger carts (which are undesirable as they eat into the profits) or downloads.

This also adds a logistical problem, in which Nintendo has to make a packaging for NX that clearly shows which hardware it supports. That's never funny.

 

[Astral Dog]

If the "NX Platform" is what people speculated it to be, it really doesn't matter which one they chose. Like people have said in this thread, Japan will favor the handheld and the US will favor the console, so I don't think it's as one sided as you think.

Also, I don't think every console game will be playable on the handheld because some developer might want to take advantage of the console graphic capabilities.

Who knows the handheld Nintendo has always been moré popular regardless of region

 

[Lebon14]

Actually, hardware makers (especially the ones which make hard drives) often use the powers of 10 definitions of the prefixes. I'm not 100% sure whether solid state memory typically uses powers of 10 or powers of 2, though.

Software is typically powers of 2.

Using Power 10 here is always completely incorrect. Binary always has been the correct way, no matter what format is the storage (HDD, SSD, Flash cards, etc).

Manufacturers use Power 10 in order "to make things easier for consumer". But it always has been the incorrect way to calculate it. There even has been class action over this.

It's in the first things you learn when you take Computer Science major.

 

[Pokemaniac]

I don't think 16GB would be the maximum, just the ceiling for what most publishers would bother with. Sort of like how publishers go for 2-4GB on 3DS even though 8GB capacities are available.

I'm not particularly convinced that 8GB is actually an option on 3DS. There was that one initial report that was possible, but we've never seen an 8GB game in the wild, and it would cause issues with the digital version due to FAT32.

Assuming that, I think that making games that can play on a handheld and scale up to a modern console is really fucking hard; it means every nintendo game is now equivalent to a cross generation game, that probably has to run on something less powerful than a PS3, and a console that may be as powerful as a PS4 (or maybe not; the less poweful the console side is, and the more powerful the handheld is, the easier development becomes for nintendo).

Me thinks those limitations will bring down the file sizes on consoles; 16GB is a reasonable limit on console initially; we are so used to downloads right now, that the console may download the rest of the assets later. 16GB should be more than enough for a handheld Vita-like or even a little more powerful. Priority will be on the handheld imho. IF they are going with a unified library, which I don't buy, except for select nintendo titles.

If you think third parties may have a problem with 16GB game size, imagine the seizures they will have if they are forced to make games that support both the handheld and console. Nintendo will need to let 3rd parties to make console-only games if they want ports at all. And along with that, a bigger media size for the console side, be it blurays, bigger carts (which are undesirable as they eat into the profits) or downloads.

This also adds a logistical problem, in which Nintendo has to make a packaging for NX that clearly shows which hardware it supports. That's never funny.

Making scalable games is easier than you think. Devs have been doing it on PC for ages.

Also, forcing all games to run on both form factors is a terrible and limiting idea which I severely doubt Nintendo would ever try.

Using Power 10 here is always completely incorrect. Binary always has been the correct way, no matter what format is the storage (HDD, SSD, Flash cards, etc).

Manufacturers use Power 10 in order "to make things easier for consumer". But it always has been the incorrect way to calculate it. There even has been class action over this.

It's in the first things you learn when you take Computer Science major.

I know that power of 2 is the "correct" way to convert it <insert rant about using the SI prefixes wrongly here>, but I was pointing the power of 10 thing out because It was specifically referring to manufacturers.

 

[NippleViking]

Ok, here my launch prediction just for fun since there isn't any news.

Nintendo Account

- game tie to account
- buy game once and be able to play it on console/handheld
- console game can't be play on handheld unless designed that way


Console

- Same level as the XBO/PS4
- able to play handheld games
- share the same control scheme as handheld

1. "Physical" SKU - $350

a. 500GB storage w/ external hard drive support
b. Include Disc/cartridge slots for console/handheld game

2. "Digital" SKU - $300

a. 1TB storage w/ external hard drive support


Handheld - $175

a. between the level of Vita and Wii U
b. 64GB storage w/ SD card support
c. cartridge slot for physical game
d. play handheld game only
e. share the same control scheme as console

I agree on most in this bar SKU configuration. I think it will be handheld for $199, home-console with controller for $299, bundle with handheld and home-console (minus controller) for $450. I do however think that nearly all console titles will be playable on the handheld, and the console will mainly be leveraging its extra power in other areas (60FPS, 4-player split-screen, etc.).

 

[ElFly]

Nirolak explained in one of the Mediacreate threads how the whole manufacturing of discs for console vendors thing works.

Paraphrasing here:

Basically, a third party publisher pays 10 $/&#8364; per disk, the 10 bucks include licensing and manufacturing fees . It's 10 bucks per disk weather the thirdparty wants to sell it for 60 or for 40 bucks.

I'm sure 10 bucks per copy would be enough to offset the increased price of the hypothetical cartridge medium and still make Nintendo some money on fees.

Yes, that would eat into their ...already....slim licensing fees, but the pros (omission of diskdrive in the console, only one SKU etc.) would far, far outweight the cons .

Cartridges for homeconsoles really aren't unfeasable anymore.

They need to include some kind of internal storage anyway; games need patches and DLC and other downloads. WiiU has a weird solution, with limited internal storage and support for external storage, but honestly, just putting a decent sized harddrive inside is the best solution. Dunno if they will want to repeat the compromise of limited (and expensive) internal flash storage and support for external storage, when just putting a damn harddrive inside is easier and has many other benefits.

They already made the move of releasing two Wii U skus just to make it cheaper, but heavily limiting the internal storage on one. They have started to rely more and more on DLC, so handicapping themselves on internal storage is not a good idea.

As it is not that great an idea to just eat the price of bigger carts into their licensing fees. Which makes them limiting the cart size and then allowing downloads of the rest of the assets more attractive, if they go with just carts.

They also did the whole "expensive carts to save on a disk drive" with the n64. Didn't turn out that well.

Making scalable games is easier than you think. Devs have been doing it on PC for ages.

It is not hard, but it is a challenge Nintendo has not faced except in limited cases (smash bros 4 mostly). It will be a problem for them if they go that route.

 

[James Scott]

I think it would need to matter. Even with same software, you don't want handheld hardware eating up the console hardware, especially when we're assuming some games made for console won't have handheld support, vice versa. I can see people/3rd party ignoring console altogether since it is more expensive and not a lot people have it. You'll have your typical Nintendo die hard getting both, but majority will just support 1 hardware. Like vita/ps4 and wii u/3ds...same Nintendo software won't matter sure it will "save droughts, but you'll recognize quickly what was made in mind for handheld and what wasn't.
Thus getting both hardware ill feel redundent if you're not a Nintendo gamer.

I want them to bundle the handheld sku and console nx but I like to dream too much as that would be over expensive failure.

Again, if the portable does well then they are set when it comes to software sales which is probably the most important thing. Sharing software also means less droughts if any even without major support from 3rd parties

 

[Lady Gaia]

Using Power 10 here is always completely incorrect.

Nonsense. Sure, the industry has consistently abused the SI prefixes when measuring digital storage, but the prefixes were defined as powers of 10. Mega- as a prefix means a million of something. So the fact that this one industry arbitrarily defined megabyte to mean 1,048,576 bytes is bizarre and wildly inconsistent – even though it has clearly become a common convention. That doesn't make it "correct."

It's so clearly wrong and so confusing that binary variants of the prefixes have been defined. 1,048,576 bytes is a mebibyte, properly abbreviated as MiB. Now if only anyone would actually follow the established naming...

 

[jmizzal]

I would love EA, Disney and Nintendo to have a Star Wars exclusive at launch for NX

 

[AzaK]

As someone who don't know to do the math, this means compared to an Xbox One or a PS4 what?

That's about 716GFlops I think. XBO is 1300GFlops and PS4 is about 1800.

 

[10k]

The home console is gonna be the Puma APU clocked around 1.8Ghz. It's basically a more efficient, 2nd gen, jaguar.

Nintendo might add eDRAM since they love their low latency ram.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

I really hope the NX has achievements, before I just didnt care about those, but now I really like them because they give me more things to do in games I really like , and if they give you points to spend on rewards , even more reason to like them.

 

[Graphics Horse]

It's so clearly wrong and so confusing that binary variants of the prefixes have been defined. 1,048,576 bytes is a mebibyte, properly abbreviated as MiB. Now if only anyone would actually follow the established naming...

It is the established naming, and still is because we did fine without the new ones which aren't much use to anyone.

 

[Lonely1]

Slow Saturday. Here's my NX home bracket of speculation:

upper extremum - 85W envelope*:

8x A72 @28nm 2GHz / 4x Zen @16FF @ ~2.5GHz - 30-40W**
GCN Cape Verde @ 28nm 512ALUs @ ~0.7GHz - 30-40W***
6GB DDR4, 32MB eDRAM (or another similar pool)

lower extremum - 45W envelope:

4x A57 @28nm 2GHz - 12W
GCN Cape Verde @ 28nm 512ALUs @ ~0.5GHz - 30W
6GB DDR3

* Peripheral buses (e.g. USB) non-withstanding
** The bracket here is really pushed up by the Zen option; the A72 option might take as little as half the TDP.
*** The 16FF option apparently affects the GPU node as well, which in practice would bring down the GPU-related portion of the TDP to or below its lower margin, or throw the GPU family bracket astray altogether. Or heck, bring CoWoS into the picture.

6GB of RAM looks kinda low for the upper scenario imo.

 

[Pokemaniac]

It is the established naming, and still is because we did fine without the new ones which aren't much use to anyone.

While I totally get why no one uses the new prefixes, that doesn't change the fact that there are multiple definitions people use for kilobyte, megabyte, etc. It's rather annoying.

They need to include some kind of internal storage anyway; games need patches and DLC and other downloads. WiiU has a weird solution, with limited internal storage and support for external storage, but honestly, just putting a decent sized harddrive inside is the best solution. Dunno if they will want to repeat the compromise of limited (and expensive) internal flash storage and support for external storage, when just putting a damn harddrive inside is easier and has many other benefits.

They already made the move of releasing two Wii U skus just to make it cheaper, but heavily limiting the internal storage on one. They have started to rely more and more on DLC, so handicapping themselves on internal storage is not a good idea.

As it is not that great an idea to just eat the price of bigger carts into their licensing fees. Which makes them limiting the cart size and then allowing downloads of the rest of the assets more attractive, if they go with just carts.

They also did the whole "expensive carts to save on a disk drive" with the n64. Didn't turn out that well.



It is not hard, but it is a challenge Nintendo has not faced except in limited cases (smash bros 4 mostly). It will be a problem for them if they go that route.

It will be a challenge, but probably not as great as the challenge they faced adapting to HD development. A great deal of Nintendo's catalog would lend itself to scaling pretty well, anyway. There'd be some problem games, sure, but most of those would probably warrant remaining console exclusive.

 

[James Scott]

It will be a challenge, but probably not as great as the challenge they faced adapting to HD development. A great deal of Nintendo's catalog would lend itself to scaling pretty well, anyway. There'd be some problem games, sure, but most of those would probably warrant remaining console exclusive.

yep, for all the software they put out this generation, I imagine most outside of Zelda U and Xenoblade would work well on the new portable and I think it would probably be worth to continue making console exclusive Zelda games. They could also work on top down or more traditional 3D Zelda games that can work on the portable as well if they wish. (OoT scale instead of TP or Zelda U scale)

 

[Peterc]

Don't know if it's already been posted:

Microsoft Doesn’t Know How It Will Compete With The NX

Nintendo has a history of setting gaming trends. The motion controls of the Wii undoubtedly inspired the PlayStation Move and Kinect, and the Xbox’s SmartGlass feature was a blatant reaction to the Wii U GamePad. But what are the other big companies planning on doing about Nintendo’s NX?

Gamesbeat recently sat down to chat with Aaron Greenberg, the head of marketing for Xbox. In addition to discussing the company’s process for creating bundles and their holiday sales plans, Gamesbeat asked Greenberg what the mid-cycle launch of the NX could mean for Microsoft. His response was:

“I’m not sure what Nintendo’s doing. I hear the same rumors and stuff that you do. I guess we’ll react to that when we know more. Nintendo’s always been innovative. They’ve always differentiated in their own way. They’ve always danced to their own tune, if you will. It wouldn’t surprise me if they do their own thing when the time is right. What they’ve done is unique and different. How they’ll compete with us remains to be seen.”

It’s nice to hear the competition praise Nintendo for it’s innovation, but the fact that they don’t have a strategy planned could mean another copy-cat peripheral from Microsoft.

http://mynintendonews.com/2015/10/31/microsoft-doesnt-know-how-it-will-compete-with-the-nx/

 

[AniHawk]

And of course, NWC is going to have the first NX game.

yep. they'll get their screaming crowd moment as well as their more controlled statement too.

 

[AniHawk]

Nirolak explained in one of the Mediacreate threads how the whole manufacturing of discs for console vendors thing works.

Paraphrasing here:

Basically, a third party publisher pays 10 $/€ per disk, the 10 bucks include licensing and manufacturing fees . It's 10 bucks per disk weather the thirdparty wants to sell it for 60 or for 40 bucks.

I'm sure 10 bucks per copy would be enough to offset the increased price of the hypothetical cartridge medium and still make Nintendo some money on fees.

Yes, that would eat into their ...already....slim licensing fees, but the pros (omission of diskdrive in the console, only one SKU etc.) would far, far outweight the cons .

Cartridges for homeconsoles really aren't unfeasable anymore.

the $10 per copy thing isn't exactly true. it actually is based on the cost of the game.

game cards are the ones that are more locked down. they are more expensive or less expensive depending on how much data is being used.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Don't know if it's already been posted:

Microsoft Doesn’t Know How It Will Compete With The NX

Nintendo has a history of setting gaming trends. The motion controls of the Wii undoubtedly inspired the PlayStation Move and Kinect, and the Xbox’s SmartGlass feature was a blatant reaction to the Wii U GamePad. But what are the other big companies planning on doing about Nintendo’s NX?

Gamesbeat recently sat down to chat with Aaron Greenberg, the head of marketing for Xbox. In addition to discussing the company’s process for creating bundles and their holiday sales plans, Gamesbeat asked Greenberg what the mid-cycle launch of the NX could mean for Microsoft. His response was:



It’s nice to hear the competition praise Nintendo for it’s innovation, but the fact that they don’t have a strategy planned could mean another copy-cat peripheral from Microsoft.

http://mynintendonews.com/2015/10/31/microsoft-doesnt-know-how-it-will-compete-with-the-nx/

That was pretty much guaranteed from the get go. Sony does this to some degree, too, but Microsoft has this thing for badly copying whatever Nintendo does. They turned Miis into their far less appealing avatars. They copied the Wii's motion controls by making a motion tracking camera which has proven itself to be really amazing in basically every field that isn't gaming. Then, of course, they have SmartGlass, which is a particularly weak imitation of the GamePad.

At least when Sony copies Nintendo, the end result is usually at least passable.

 

[KingBroly]

I never even thought about the NWC having the first NX game. That'd be brilliant.

 

[AniHawk]

I never even thought about the NWC having the first NX game. That'd be brilliant.

i have to imagine it would be the mario game. i'll guess super mario galaxy 3, and they'll have two screens at once - one guy playing on the handheld while the other guy plays on the console in a wizard-esque race to the end of some pre-selected levels.

 

[blu]

6GB of RAM looks kinda low for the upper scenario imo.

Something's got to pay for the eDRAM : )

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Microsoft Doesn’t Know How It Will Compete With The NX


http://mynintendonews.com/2015/10/31/microsoft-doesnt-know-how-it-will-compete-with-the-nx/

"How they'll compete with us remains to be seen"

these two statements don't have the same meaning at all in context

 

[Lord_Byron28]

i have to imagine it would be the mario game. i'll guess super mario galaxy 3, and they'll have two screens at once - one guy playing on the handheld while the other guy plays on the console in a wizard-esque race to the end of some pre-selected levels.

Not that I wouldn't be surprised if they did that but that doesn't really sound exciting to me. Don't get me wrong SMG3 would be awesome but I dislike the racing aspect.

 

[Kurt]

Not that I wouldn't be surprised if they did that but that doesn't really sound exciting to me. Don't get me wrong SMG3 would be awesome but I dislike the racing aspect.

Yes, that make sonic much less appealed to me. (the racing part)
Anyway, i wondering how developers can make use of this new gaming experience thing if they don't have it yet?

 

[AniHawk]

Not that I wouldn't be surprised if they did that but that doesn't really sound exciting to me. Don't get me wrong SMG3 would be awesome but I dislike the racing aspect.

it's the same thing that happened with super mario maker except it would be done simultaneously.

 

[Peterc]

Yes, that make sonic much less appealed to me. (the racing part)
Anyway, i wondering how developers can make use of this new gaming experience thing if they don't have it yet?

True, personally I think Sega has choosed a wrong direction for the Sonic games.
I believe they have to leave the racing part and focus more on an adventure sonic
like mario or donkey kong.

Nintendo was planning to create a mario/sonic adventure game (not olympic). But they had discussion of how the game should be, I think if they give nintendo a change to create one, it will be perfect.