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PAL Charts - Week 46, 2015

D

DriftingSpirit

Member
Hexa said:
It's still coming out on PC and its still coming out on PS4 eventually. Launching it now is a bad time even if it was on all consoles. But if they launch it on PS4 next year with all the DLC thrown in at $40 I don't think it'll hurt the brand in the grand scheme of things.
Click to expand...
Who knows what will be coming out around the time Tomb Raider launches late 2016 on PS4. It could be a replication of what occurred with Fallout for all we know.

I do think they should do all they can to make sure the PS4 version sells as much as possible though.
 
S

Striek

Member
Rise of the Tomb Raider is going to sell _millions_ less than Tomb Raider did. Also its going to sell at lot less upfront and a lot more down the line, discounted.

I really doubt S-E got enough money and I certainly doubt MS got their moneys worth. Lose/lose for everyone involved.

One helluva mistake.
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
DriftingSpirit said:
I do think they should do all they can to make sure the PS4 version sells as much as possible though.
Click to expand...

That's going to be their biggest challenge. Because MSapparnetly secured a full year exclusivity on consoles, which means that they won't be able to release it on the PS4 until around this time next year. And next years PS4 calendar looks scary if it holds. It's just stacked from top to bottom. The exclusivity window is the big problem. If they could get it out in a dead period (April-August) it may be able to pull some good numbers. But there isn't much hope if they have to wait until November.
 
J

jjonez18

Member
Nice. PAL thread that isn't out at some some ungodly hour :p

Did not know Fallout was so huge. Damn near 500k. Some of those huge ~2m predictions from NPD threads don't seem so far fetched.

And TR. Only 1/3 the sales of TR2013. Expected, but it still hurts.

The potential base Sqaure walked away from... Must have gotten a pretty penny.

Do we have TR2013 splits?
 
A

Angel_DvA

Member
Tomb Raider numbers are incredibly low, I don't think it will do better with Battlefront coming next week...

With Fallout 4 number, we can say that Aaron Greenberg was wrong again, Fallout 4 cannibalized TR sales in UK and I think it will be the same everywhere, i'm sure SE has a better deal than Microsoft in this one.
 
E

eerik9000

Member
Striek said:
No way S-E thought sales would slump that much going exclusive. Doubt they charged MS near enough.

Its not going to get better launching a year later on PS4.

Utter catastrophe.
Click to expand...

Who cares about money, who cares about sales. Microsoft showed a lot of passion, that's all that matters.
 
Bruno MB

Bruno MB

Member
Code: 
[Week 12, 2006] THE ELDER SCROLLS IV: OBLIVION (TAKE 2) - 75,000 / NEW 
[Week 44, 2008] FALLOUT 3 (BETHESDA SOFTWORKS) - 120,000 / NEW 
[Week 42, 2010] FALLOUT: NEW VEGAS (BETHESDA SOFTWORKS) - 154,000 / NEW 
[Week 45, 2011] THE ELDER SCROLLS V: SKYRIM (BETHESDA SOFTWORKS) - 320,000 / NEW 
[B][Week 46, 2015] FALLOUT 4 (BETHESDA SOFTWORKS) - 482,000 / NEW[/B]

Code: 
[Week 14, 2006] TOMB RAIDER: LEGEND (EIDOS) ~ 90,000 / NEW
[Week 22, 2007] TOMB RAIDER: ANNIVERSARY (EIDOS)
[Week 47, 2008] TOMB RAIDER: UNDERWORLD (EIDOS)
[Week 10, 2013] TOMB RAIDER (SQUARE ENIX EUROPE) - 183,000 / NEW
[B][Week 46, 2015] RISE OF THE TOMB RAIDER (SQUARE ENIX EUROPE) < 62,900 / NEW[/B]
 
C

cameron

Member
For a second there I thought it was Monday morning and I lost track of time.

Bruno MB said:
Fallout 4 ~ 482,000
Rise of the Tomb Raider < 63,000 (Tomb Raider debuted selling around 183,000 units)
Click to expand...

Oof.

I was expecting the 360 version to do better and give it a boost. Not quite Jurassic World 360 numbers, but something decent at least for a game with mass appeal. The marketing before and during launch week was a waste if people are more interested in other titles.

Next week's charts will be interesting to see what kind of drop occurs.
 
D

DriftingSpirit

Member
SolidSnakex said:
That's going to be their biggest challenge. Because MSapparnetly secured a full year exclusivity on consoles, which means that they won't be able to release it on the PS4 until around this time next year. And next years PS4 calendar looks scary if it holds. It's just stacked from top to bottom. The exclusivity window is the big problem. If they could get it out in a dead period (April-August) it may be able to pull some good numbers. But there isn't much hope if they have to wait until November.
Click to expand...
Agreed.

So, they've also ensured they screw themselves over with Tomb Raider even after the deal is over.

If Tomb Raider also sees a 70-80% drop next week.....
 
G

Game4life

Banned
SE has effectively destroyed the TR franchise because of the deal. No one will care a year down when it releases on PS4 as well. SE's stupidity knows no bounds.
 
C

chromatic9

Member
Striek said:
Rise of the Tomb Raider is going to sell _millions_ less than Tomb Raider did. Also its going to sell at lot less upfront and a lot more down the line, discounted.

I really doubt S-E got enough money and I certainly doubt MS got their moneys worth. Lose/lose for everyone involved.

One helluva mistake.
Click to expand...

Don't know how true but the original reboot is said to have cost a lot of money in development and Rise of always had a scaled down production cost. Plus you have MS money and it's not far off Uncharted 2 numbers. I think it will be okay overall in a year or two
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
Angel_DvA said:
Tomb Raider numbers are incredibly low, I don't think it will do better with Battlefront coming next week...

With Fallout 4 number, we can say that Aaron Greenberg was wrong again, Fallout 4 cannibalized TR sales in UK and I think it will be the same everywhere, i'm sure SE has a better deal than Microsoft in this one.
Click to expand...

I don't think either company has a good deal.

For Microsoft, they got to use their "best games lineup in xbox history" marketing line which means nothing if those games don't sell software and hardware, and judging from NPD numbers, both hardware and software underperformed in October and if UK sales ratio between Fallout 4 and Tomb Raider is anything to go by then it will be a similar story in November. Millions thrown at Square-Enix for little gain.

For Square-Enix, it means potentially damaging the brand by only reaching out to a small portion of potential buyers, then any post-release DLC will only be sold to those small number of buyers. So then a Definitive Edition releases with all that DLC bundled in for PS4 and PC at a reduced price. Not only do late ports not sell as well but they lost a lot of potential DLC sales in the mix.

Not a good deal for either company imo. Square-Enix shot themselves in the foot twice.
 
K

kadotsu

Banned
Game4life said:
SE has effectively destroyed the TR franchise because of the deal. No one will care a year down when it releases on PS4 as well. SE's stupidity knows no bounds.
Click to expand...

I wonder if they will have the balls to release RotTR without the season pass on PS4. It's "early 2016" on PC right? It'll go up against XCOM, Dark Souls 3, The Division, Street Fighter V, Dishonored 2 and, which is the most funny, Hitman and Deus Ex.
 
T

Toki767

Member
I commented yesterday about how dead the Rise of the Tomb Raider OT was. These numbers definitely reflect that.

Sad to see since the game is good, but I don't feel sorry for Square Enix for making a poor decision.
 
K

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Toki767 said:
I commented yesterday about how dead the Rise of the Tomb Raider OT was. These numbers definitely reflect that.

Sad to see since the game is good, but I don't feel sorry for Square Enix for making a poor decision.
Click to expand...

Not releasing the PC version at the same time at least was a big mistake.
 
S

Shenmue

Banned
Kagari said:
Not releasing the PC version at the same time at least was a big mistake.
Click to expand...

Yeah I really don't know why they agreed to do that. PS4 a year later I can understand, but PC? WHY? Loads of games release PC/Console simultaneously and they usually don't affect console sales. SE was just all kinds of stupid with this deal.

We all know MS really only cared about getting an advantage on the PS4 with the deal anyway (MS is windows so I doubt they cared all that much about exclusivity from PC). I feel like if S-E had insisted that the deal only exclude PS4, MS would have still gone for it.
 
R

reptilescorpio

Member
Kagari said:
Not releasing the PC version at the same time at least was a big mistake.
Click to expand...

I assume they thought being able to say "Xbox only" would be better than the additional sales on PC. Marketing decision over business decision sadly, really wish they had it on PC at launch as well.
 
E

eerik9000

Member
Kyoufu said:
For Microsoft, they got to use their "best games lineup in xbox history" marketing line
Click to expand...

Yeah, but Tomb Raider would have still been in Xbox' line-up even if it wasn't a timed exclusive. Unless you think Sony would have passionhatted an exclusive deal otherwise.
 
E

Elios83

Member
Surprised by the early numbers.
Btw great Fallout 4 debut, ouch at the Tomb Raider number, going from 183k to less than 63k (including 360 copies) because of the exclusive deal....and this is the UK...one of the markets where the game is most popular. Core Design was also a british developer.
It's safe to say that Microsoft hasn't gained anything with the partnership while Square Enix lost a lot of sales. I wonder if they have some kind of escape clause :p
 
S

stryke

Member
DriftingSpirit said:
Agreed.

So, they've also ensured they screw themselves over with Tomb Raider even after the deal is over.

If Tomb Raider also sees a 70-80% drop next week.....
Click to expand...

That would be quite an accomplishment. Games with lower debuts tend to have smaller percentage drops.
 
E

eerik9000

Member
Shenmue said:
Yeah I really don't know why they agreed to do that. PS4 a year later I can understand, but PC? WHY? Loads of games release PC/Console simultaneously and they usually don't affect console sales. SE was just all kinds of stupid with this deal.
Click to expand...

Because Microsoft wanted to look like good guys. They wanted people to think the game would not have been made without their involvement. Announcing it only as an "Xbox exclusive" helped to support that idea at least a little bit more.
 
S

Shenmue

Banned
Hmmm let's say S-E would normally see $40 profit from each full price sale (I think this is probably a bit generous), that would be $4.8 million loss from the PAL launch of the first game. I'm guessing the loss will be even bigger in the US, but let's say conservatively it's the same, that's about 10 mil loss from the last game.

I wonder if MS would have covered that much.
 
M

MrCookiepants

Member
Note to SE, this is not how you follow up a successful franchise reboot, business wise. It really blows my mind how dumb they are.

Let me reiterate. They poured a shitload of money and effort into making Tomb Raider relevant again, and then they go and send the sequel to die by making it exclusive to a struggling platform and releasing on the same date as Fallout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ViF6JRNjTk
 
K

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
MrCookiepants said:
Note to SE, this is not how you follow up a successful franchise reboot, business wise. It really blows my mind how dumb they are.

Let me reiterate. They poured a shitload of money and effort into making Tomb Raider relevant again, and then they go and send the sequel to die by making it exclusive to a struggling platform and releasing on the same date as Fallout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ViF6JRNjTk
Click to expand...

This, statham, is why they made a mistake.
 
B

Beautiful Ninja

Member
I feel confident in saying that ROTR would have done better if Uncharted 4 was coming out now instead of March. Not being able to co-op the UC4 hype and champion itself as the XB1 alternative killed their potential hype train. It just felt like no one cared this game was coming out, including MS and Squeenix.
 
Z

zsynqx

Member
eerik9000 said:
Yeah, but Tomb Raider would have still been in Xbox' line-up even if it wasn't a timed exclusive. Unless you think Sony would have passionhatted an exclusive deal otherwise.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. The Xbox line up would be identical to what it is now, except the game would have done better sales wise. The ironic thing is that Crystal's response to the initial outrage was that this would strengthen the franchise.

Just a really stupid decision by Square.
 
T

Toki767

Member
The Tomb Raider Xbox One bundle might salvage sales a little this year, but even in the US it's not $300 on Black Friday. I'm sure Square Enix made money on this if Microsoft paid for lost sales, but in the long run the mindshare of the franchise is way more important.
 
N

notaskwid

Member
statham said:
And? I would expect Square and MS ran the numbers. And it was pro Square in the bank.
Click to expand...

And the numbers were less than half its predecessor in the second strongest worldwide xbox market and one of the strongest Tomb Raider market? I doubt that. But I'm sure it did great digitally, I wouldn't be surprised the numbers would double with digital sales
/s
 
A

Akara

Banned
MrCookiepants said:
Note to SE, this is not how you follow up a successful franchise reboot, business wise. It really blows my mind how dumb they are.

Let me reiterate. They poured a shitload of money and effort into making Tomb Raider relevant again, and then they go and send the sequel to die by making it exclusive to a struggling platform and releasing on the same date as Fallout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ViF6JRNjTk
Click to expand...

Agreed... They built it to tremendous heights and are once again letting the game, which looks amazing, fade to obscurity by signing off on this deal. Sure, maybe Microsoft paid a lot and then some for this exclusivity.

But in the long run, this won't bode well for the Tomb Raider series. It would have been much more profitable to reestablish the franchise by releasing it on multiple consoles, building the Tomb Raider name back but no. Bad business decision in my honest opinion.
 
G

Game4life

Banned
bananafactory said:
I wouldn't say no one will care. I'll almost definitely be grabbing it day 1 on PS4
Click to expand...

Well obviously I did not mean no one literally. I mean by and large the PS4 community has too many games to spend on next year and will likely not buy this. The worst thing about SE's plan is they want to sell this on PS4 for 60 dollars a year late. Good luck with that.
 
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