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The Academy Responds to #OscarsSoWhite Pressures

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M

MHWilliams

Member
iamblades said:
I haven't seen a lot of those, but of the ones that I have seen, The Martian and American Hustle were way better films than Compton. Creed is closer to those two in terms of overall quality(i think The Martian was better, could go either way on American Hustle), but I could seeing it being knocked down a peg solely due to it being a reboot of a prolific franchise.

Agreed that the best picture category has seen a lot of garbage though, especially in the couple years immediately after they increased the number of nominees in that category. I don't agree that Creed or especially Compton were good enough films to be considered snubs though.
Click to expand...

False problem.

Best picture is a 10 nomination category since 2009. So the question is, what other two films would you put in those slots?
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
MHWilliams said:
False problem.

Best picture is a 10 nomination category since 2009. So the question is, what other two films would you put in those slots?
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Creed and Sicario.

I'm also bumping McKay for Coogler. And Scott for Villenueve.

I'm also bumping Christian Bale for Benicio Del Toro. And Bryan Cranston for Samuel L. Jackson
 
I

iamblades

Member
MHWilliams said:
False problem.

Best picture is a 10 nomination category since 2009. So the question is, what other two films would you put in those slots?
Click to expand...

For me Sicario deserved one of those slots(I'd probably even vote for it to win, having not seen Room or Brooklyn yet), but just because you have 10 slots, doesn't mean you have to throw out 10 nominations. That was what got us some of those awful nominations early on after the expansion.

Sicario was the big snub of awards season IMO.
 
S

Shaanyboi

Banned
That's nice. The awards are still total dogshit and voters are lazy as fuck when it comes to doing their job, but this is nice.
 
S

Slayven

Member
Mrs. Manky said:
This is a good step.

But now I'm expecting to see a a minor surge of movies starring old white people, preferably women, in an attempt to stay on the voting rolls.

"Golden Girls: The Movie", starring Meryl Streep, Judi Dench, Helen Mirren, and Charlotte Rampling.
Click to expand...

Judi Dench is a treasure
 
E

ErrorMacro

Member
It's a good thing that instead of choosing to give poor excuses and saying that they are sorry, they choose to immediately take action to change things and hopefuly fixing their mistakes in the future. I wish more organizations behaved like that.

Yet, we still need time to see if those measures will be well implemented and changes things.
 
Z

Zaph

Member
For such an institution, that's actually quite an impressively speedy response.

Anyone else get the impression Cheryl Boone Isaacs has been dying to do this for a while, basically had the plan drafted in her head, but needed something like the recent public pressure to push it through?
 
M

MHWilliams

Member
iamblades said:
For me Sicario deserved one of those slots(I'd probably even vote for it to win, having not seen Room or Brooklyn yet), but just because you have 10 slots, doesn't mean you have to throw out 10 nominations. That was what got us some of those awful nominations early on after the expansion.
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Yes, but that's not the argument that many are putting forward. Their argument is Creed or Compton are worth replacing one of the existing nominations.

This is reframing: are Creed, Compton, or Sicario not worth being nominated at all? (You've already answered part of this question.) Many critics seemed to think so. Scott Feinberg, who's been predicting this stuff with high accuracy for a while now had Sicario and Compton in his list. I want to say Bobby posted what seemed to be the best conversation between major film critics about the situation surrounding Best Picture noms.
 
S

sangreal

Member
some actual common sense reforms right there

Shaanyboi said:
That's nice. The awards are still total dogshit and voters are lazy as fuck when it comes to doing their job, but this is nice.
Click to expand...

but thats the point. Just like politics, the voters are a bunch of geriatrics who haven't had a horse in the race for decades
 
D

DontBeThatGuy

Member
This is a fantastic step in the right direction on this issue. Now I wish the industry as a whole would take a step back and truly address the issues of opportunity and pay equality. That's the biggest elephant in the room.
 
I

iamblades

Member
MHWilliams said:
Yes, but that's not the argument that many are putting forward. Their argument is Creed or Compton are worth replacing one of the existing nominations.

This is reframing: are Creed, Compton, or Sicario not worth being nominated at all? (You've already answered part of this question.) Many critics seemed to think so. Scott Feinberg, who's been predicting this stuff with high accuracy for a while now had Sicario and Compton in his list. I want to say Bobby posted what seemed to be the best conversation between major film critics about the situation surrounding Best Picture noms.
Click to expand...

Compton didn't deserve a best picture nomination at all, it had some very real flaws and was basically a one-sided hagiography.

Creed is borderline, I wouldn't call it completely unworthy of a nom, but it is also not so worthy of a nom that I'd call it a snub either.
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
MHWilliams said:
Yes, but that's not the argument that many are putting forward. Their argument is Creed or Compton are worth replacing one of the existing nominations.

This is reframing: are Creed, Compton, or Sicario not worth being nominated at all? (You've already answered part of this question.) Many critics seemed to think so. Scott Feinberg, who's been predicting this stuff with high accuracy for a while now had Sicario and Compton in his list. I want to say Bobby posted what seemed to be the best conversation between major film critics about the situation surrounding Best Picture noms.
Click to expand...

Personally speaking. I think Sicario was a way better film than the Martian. Amd Benicio Del Toro not getting nominated for best supporting is fucking crazy.
 
S

sangreal

Member
iamblades said:
Compton didn't deserve a best picture nomination at all, it had some very real flaws and was basically a one-sided hagiography.
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Since when are Oscars based on accuracy? That's a screenplay issue anyway, which it was nominated for

Creed is borderline, I wouldn't call it completely unworthy of a nom, but it is also not so worthy of a nom that I'd call it a snub either.
Click to expand...

I think the Creed arguments mostly come from outside of the Best Picture category
 
M

maruchan

Member
Go read what many voters said about Compton. For many it was to black, or didn't see it because they hate "rap" music. A real shame.. Hopefully a younger diverse voting group will not have this problem.
 
V

Vice

Member
iamblades said:
I haven't seen a lot of those, but of the ones that I have seen, The Martian and American Hustle were way better films than Compton. Creed is closer to those two in terms of overall quality(i think The Martian was better, could go either way on American Hustle), but I could seeing it being knocked down a peg solely due to it being a reboot of a prolific franchise.

Agreed that the best picture category has seen a lot of garbage though, especially in the couple years immediately after they increased the number of nominees in that category. I don't agree that Creed or especially Compton were good enough films to be considered snubs though.
Click to expand...
Compton is a case of the Academy ignoring tends within its usual nominations though. The mostly fluff yet sort of gritty bio-pics tend to get a lot more praise from the academy if they manage to be competently made and popular with regular audiences. It had the Ray-Factor. But, I think the age of members probably had a oot to do woth it not being nominated.

Brooklyn is a good movie, but there's nothing really standout about it. It's above average but doesn't really have anything standout about it.
 
S

sangreal

Member
DontBeThatGuy said:
Link?
Click to expand...

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/01/18/oscars-straight-outta-compton-snub

The Director

“Nobody can accuse the Academy of being racist — but they can be accused of being out of touch with the younger generation,” says the director. “Straight Outta Compton is a masterpiece, probably the best biopic since Amadeus — but many if not most of the Academy can’t fathom songs like “F— the Police.’ I know many members who wouldn’t even see the film because it represented a culture that they detest or, more accurately, they assume they detest. Younger people, even those under 50, are not only fans of the music, but much more willing to try to empathize with the world depicted in the movie. When the Academy expands to an even younger demo, movies like Straight Outta Compton will stand a chance.”
Click to expand...

etc
 
N

Napoleonthechimp

Member
Does this mean Jada isn't going to invest money into the communities now?

A Link to the Snitch said:
I thought 127 Hours was good

American Hustle was p. boring though I'd agree



Creed is better.
Click to expand...
Creed is better than a 40 year old movie so therefore it should also win in the same categories? I don't think that is how it works.

Admiral Woofington said:
hopefully the next goal is to lower the average age of the voter to something closer to 40. Get more younger people in there. Somebody with a more modern way of thinking.
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How is this supposed to work? You've got to be active within the film industry and be sponsored by two existing academy members or be a nominee before you can even be considered for membership. There aren't going to be a massive amount of young academy members no matter if you want it or not.
 
A

A Link to the Past

Banned
Napoleonthechimp said:
Does this mean Jada isn't going to invest money into the communities now?


Creed is better than a 40 year old movie so therefore it should also win in the same categories? I don't think that is how it works.


How is this supposed to work? You've got to be active within the film industry and be sponsored by two existing academy members or be a nominee before you can even be considered for membership. There aren't going to be a massive amount of young academy members no matter if you want it or not.
Click to expand...

Creed is better for things that have nothing to do with age.
 
C

Cipherr

Member
harSon said:
Complacency and not raising a ruckus is the best way for change tho
Click to expand...

I love the simmering rage of those that pushed that idea, and are now clearly upset that the noise brought about a form of improvement.

"Yeah!? Well... so WHAT! These modifications probably won't change much anyway!"

Lol.
 
S

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
Vice said:
Best picture quality varies though. Creed and Compton are about as good as Brooklyn and The Martian. And in recent years some absolute junk has been nominated such as Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close, Warhorse, 127 Hours, The Blindside and American Hustle.
Click to expand...

Compton is a white washed, softball biopic, where the only member of the cast who felt like he had a complete arc was Easy-E(Mitchell did a hell of a job selling him too). Ice Cube's was nothing special and Dre's portion was fairly terrible to block out anything that potentially hurt his image at Apple.

The Martian is far better. Creed is far better too. Both of those are on the same level. Extremely well directed films with solid performances across the board. Only stand out being Sly in either. And I could see why they reward Martian and not Creed for best picture, because Creed is still a film they rewarded 40 years prior when it was called Rocky.

If we're talking snubs, I'll say it again, Attah Abraham from Beasts for Best Actor for this year and DuVernay for Best Director last year. I do think the article from EW hits it on the head. The Academy, even if they aren't racist, their refusal to change over the years has put them out of date to the point where they might as well be. With an average age of 63, most were well into adulthood before personal computers became a household thing, before hip hop became a thing, before cities became more urban, before internet, before dozens of other changes to the industry. Their refusal to change has become clear with how they nominate. So how can they relate to anything like Fuck the Police?
 
N

Not

Banned
Delicious, delicious salt:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/academys-new-voting-rules-raise-858388

Old white rich dude said:
But I have voted, often, for Denzel Washington, Halle Berry, Samuel L. Jackson and other people of color. And such a procedure does raise the question of the nature of the Academy: is its membership based on merit and accomplishment or in-tune-ness with all that is currently popular?
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"I've voted for black people! Isn't that enough? Besides, giving roles to people besides white actors is just what's popular right now."

[QUOTE="Longtime Member," aka old white rich dude]
And by the way, there are a lot of Academy board members who aren't 'active'... I have news for you: older people who lived through the struggles for civil rights are way more sensitive to minority issues than young people who don’t understand what it was all about in the first place.[/QUOTE]

This person thinks the struggle for civil rights is something he "lived through." In other words, it's over and his generation singlehandedly took care of it.

Tab Hunter said:
Obviously, it's a thinly-veiled ploy to kick out older white contributors — the backbone of the industry — to make way for younger, 'politically-correct' voters. The Academy should not cave in to media hype and change the rules without talking to or getting votes from all members first.
Click to expand...

Sounds about right. Good fucking riddance, Tab.
 
S

Slayven

Member
CZXxzzNWAAACeiy.jpg
 
M

Meowster

Member
A side tangent but I hope that with the new AMPAS rules, they'll finally stop making Best Supporting Actor the "nominate old white guys that are irrelevant now" award and finally look around into younger performances that always manage to get snubbed every year, like Jacob Tremblay this year.

AMPAS were daring that one time when they nominated Quvenzhané Wallis in Best Actress but that is still one of my favorite nominations ever.
 
H

harSon

Banned
Not said:
Delicious, delicious salt:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/academys-new-voting-rules-raise-858388



"I've voted for black people! Isn't that enough? Besides, giving roles to people besides white actors is just what's popular right now."



This person thinks the struggle for civil rights is something he "lived through." In other words, it's over and his generation singlehandedly took care of it.



Sounds about right. Good fucking riddance, Tab.
Click to expand...

Hot damn, what a beautiful article.
 
J

jett

D-Member
I read about this a couple days ago. Seems like a good start.

sangreal said:
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/01/18/oscars-straight-outta-compton-snub



etc
Click to expand...

Straight Outta Compton is pretty good, but a masterpiece? Best biopic since Amadeus? Better than Goodfellas, The Aviator, Schindler's List, The Last Emperor? Personally it's non even the best biopic I've seen this year, that would be Steve Jobs.

Creed deserved a spot more than Compton, but I'll certainly take either over friggin' Bridge of Spies.
 
M

MHWilliams

Member
Nipo said:
Has an Asian ever won for best actor or actress?

Edit apparently not for 50 years.
Click to expand...
Asian

Best Actor - Ben Kingsley, 1982, Gandhi (also nominated in 2003 for House of Sand and Fog. Yul Brynner only other nominee/winner.)

Best Actress - Merle Oberon, 1935, The Dark Angel (Only nominee/winner)

Latino

Best Actor - Jose Ferrer, 1950, Cyrano de Bergerac (2011, Demian Bichir nominated for A Better Life. In supporting, Benecio del Toro wins in for a Spanish-speaking role for the first time ever in Traffic.)

Best Actress - No Wins (Catalina Sandino Moreno was the last nomination in 2004)

Native American

Best Actor - No wins, no nominations. (Graham Green was the last nomination for Best Supporting in 1991 for Dances with Wolves.)

Best Actress - No wins, no nominations.

No women of color have won a Best (leading) Actress statue since 2001. (Halle Berry for Monster's Ball.)
 
G

GoutPatrol

Forgotten in his cell
jett said:
I read about this a couple days ago. Seems like a good start.



Straight Outta Compton is pretty good, but a masterpiece? Best biopic since Amadeus? Better than Goodfellas, The Aviator, Schindler's List, The Last Emperor? Personally it's non even the best biopic I've seen this year, that would be Steve Jobs.

Creed deserved a spot more than Compton, but I'll certainly take either over friggin' Bridge of Spies.
Click to expand...


When you have another post from Wesley Morris et al saying that Compton probably shouldn't have been nominated that much, and I agree with him. You can excuse away Compton, Chi-raq, or Concussion's lack of nominations because they were bad to mediocre movies. For stuff like Creed and Beasts, no excuse.
 
D

DontBeThatGuy

Member
jett said:
I read about this a couple days ago. Seems like a good start.



Straight Outta Compton is pretty good, but a masterpiece? Best biopic since Amadeus? Better than Goodfellas, The Aviator, Schindler's List, The Last Emperor? Personally it's non even the best biopic I've seen this year, that would be Steve Jobs.

Creed deserved a spot more than Compton, but I'll certainly take either over friggin' Bridge of Spies.
Click to expand...

I actually really liked Compton, but it's a biopic, and that usually means a formula and it didn't really overcome that(the great ones do), regardless of it's freshness factor in certain regards. It also has the biopic baggage of not really believing what you're seeing on the screen actually happened that way, or they left a lot out to sanitize, etc... It's a problem for me.
 
I

injurai

Banned
MHWilliams said:
Asian

Best Actor - Ben Kingsley, 1982, Gandhi (also nominated in 2003 for House of Sand and Fog. Yul Brynner only other nominee/winner.)

Best Actress - Merle Oberon, 1935, The Dark Angel (Only nominee/winner)

Latino

Best Actor - Jose Ferrer, 1950, Cyrano de Bergerac (2011, Demian Bichir nominated for A Better Life. In supporting, Benecio del Toro wins in for a Spanish-speaking role for the first time ever in Traffic.)

Best Actress - No Wins (Catalina Sandino Moreno was the last nomination in 2004)

Native American

Best Actor - No wins, no nominations. (Graham Green was the last nomination for Best Supporting in 1991 for Dances with Wolves.)

Best Actress - No wins, no nominations.

No women of color have won a Best (leading) Actress statue since 2001. (Halle Berry for Monster's Ball.)
Click to expand...

The Actor from The Last Emperor didn't win... hmm... I call foul there.
 
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