EvilKatarn
Member
I get that. The comment just seemed to be aimed at the wrong side.
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Fire Emblem Fates' localization doesn't have the petting minigame
- Thread starter kulapik
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After going through the full translation and e-mail back to back I can confirm the translation is almost perfectly accurate.
There are only 2 words I don't think have been translated properly and they tend to make things sound less authoritative than the e-mail, it's no that important but I'll still give my take on it just for the sake of complete clarity:
- "the european division, under the supervision of the president Satoru Shibata", "Supervision" is actually "Jurisdiction";
-"INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS, after the request of the president", "request" is actually "order".
None really matters to the real problem but I like things to be completely clear.
Source: I'm Italian.
There are only 2 words I don't think have been translated properly and they tend to make things sound less authoritative than the e-mail, it's no that important but I'll still give my take on it just for the sake of complete clarity:
- "the european division, under the supervision of the president Satoru Shibata", "Supervision" is actually "Jurisdiction";
-"INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS, after the request of the president", "request" is actually "order".
None really matters to the real problem but I like things to be completely clear.
Source: I'm Italian.
theSlacker
Member
Going by the responses, you are probably right and I shouldn't have gone for any snark in my response and just left it as :
Regardless, I wasn't claiming that I had one, but that other people should try not to.
People that were against other stuff being removed would because they would claim an equivalency between that and the previous ongoing discussion of removing other content for localization.
As another response to that news if true;
This is exactly why I get mads when things are cut for localizations. I again, do not give a damn about a petting minigame, or bust slider, or extra cloths on character art, but I do not want localization changes cutting content from a game getting normalized to the point of a situation like this. Though I honestly wouldn't have believed this was true and thought it was some kind of troll if not for that Steven Universe event.
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
If this turns out to be true this seems like an extreme shift considering the last FE actually didn't have the censorship the NA release had.
If true, one is far far far (...) far worst than the other. So really one shouldn't be happy about it even to prove a point.
But since in the two case we might be speaking about content cut to protect some people sensibility, the parallel is hard to miss.
Road of Ease
Member
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I didn't either until that Steven universe story was posted. Now I'm worry.
Prax
Member
Isn't Malig Knight a word play on "malignant" like a cancer? 
c
I don't know about the stock I'd put into the homosexual content being cut though.
They should add more in if anything! (And to make it easy, just have an awkward S-class jump for convos that didn't seem to go there but suddenly turn into a proposal with cutscene )
I'm skeptical about this supposed email.
cI don't know about the stock I'd put into the homosexual content being cut though.
They should add more in if anything! (And to make it easy, just have an awkward S-class jump for convos that didn't seem to go there but suddenly turn into a proposal with cutscene )
I'm skeptical about this supposed email.
Not for me. Some localisation changes are appropriate, some aren't. Removing a slightly creepy LovePlus-esque mini game is an understandable change. I don't think that type of mini game belongs in Fire Emblem. Removing any LGBT content is a completely different decision and one that I don't think is appropriate. There is nothing unpleasant or strange about gay relationships whereas the petting is just odd and nonsensical.
I don't believe that NoE is censoring the LGBT aspects, though. After the Tomodachi Life controversy Nintendo were quite clear that in future they would include same sex relationships, so I don't see why a less casual title would have to avoid them.
I have a feeling as to why, and this actually might be a case of true government censorship. Europe is not one nation with the same laws, but rather multiple nations with multiple laws. Furthermore, Europe as a region is not the same as the European Union. I decided to look into Nintendo of Europe and a thing I noticed is that they do business in Russia. Russia is what worries me. Federal laws in that nation passed on June 2013 to ban the distribution of "propaganda" to minors which promotes "non-traditional sexual relationships". If Fire Emblem Fates were to be distributed in Europe, and even if the game wasn't planned for a russian release, the game can still be played in Russian PAL 3DSes. Nintendo could be in trouble if that was the case.
I'll hold on to this as a rumor for now, but if true, I'm looking at Russia as a probable cause of this.
LordGorchnik
Member
Which is why I have a 0 tolerance policy for any sort of censorship. I don't care if its head-patting or LGBT relationships, the fact that people willingly allow companies to tell you what you can and cannot see should be left in our hands, not theirs.
And correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the LGBT relationships added only for the US version of the game? The Japanese version didn't even have them correct?
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
No. They were in there.
Elaugaufein
Member
Literally all S rank conversations are like that*, because it's possible you're doing the C through A rank dialogue with a potential marriage partner after one of them is already married. (Unless that was the joke?).
*Okay not quiet literally all: Tharja was an exception in Awakening with Avatar.
So the solution to the awkward dialogue is to take out marriage.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Which is an opinion that annoys me, quite frankly. The line isn't "opposed to any localization" vs "supportive of all localization", its "opposed to any localization" vs "amenable to localization".
Its not inconsistent for me to be okay with the removal of this minigame and still think that the adjustments in Italy are also the wrong thing to do. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should
Rabid Dwarf 76
Member
I'm curious as well.
So you're saying the company that makes the product has no right to change it?
Road of Ease
Member
It's understandable to worry, but I'm not sure Fire Emblem is sold as a game for all ages in Europe. It's more likely to be rated for Teens, and if so it would be a different situation I think.
Are there any cases of NoE removing content from games rated for Teens?
LouisaFerre
Member
Or maybe he's just saying that he doesn't support that and that he thinks consumers shouldn't.
Prax
Member
Hahahah you're right! but I think USUALLY there is some kinda sexual tension lead-up before then. But you can BS on s-rank anyhow.
e.g.
"Remember how we are talking about flowers, Cordelia? Well.. .. I picked a flower did one about whether.. you loved me and.."
"And...? (Oh no, I'm suddenly.. interested in this superstitious stuff???)"
"What does it matter?! I just threw it away and came running to you!! Ahh.. I love you!!!"
"Q___Q SUMIAAAAA!!!"
No the solution is to make the writing better or have only specific hookups be fleshed out.
But I'll take the consolation prize of all of the convos being bisexual-vailable and terrible. lol
Why is it a different situation? Are you saying gay couples are harmful for younger children?
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
It should be noted that Europe is mostly made up of countries where gay marriage is not allowed. The big Catholic country exception for a very long time is Spain, believe it or not, so I'm not surprised at that Italian email if true. Australia doesn't have it either.
"Localisation, not censorship" was a dumb claim and you're seeing why right now.
Are you still happy first page? What a twist.
That was NOA who said that I think...
"Localisation, not censorship" was a dumb claim and you're seeing why right now.
Are you still happy first page? What a twist.
That was NOA who said that I think...
Isn't Malig Knight a word play on "malignant" like a cancer?
I don't know about the stock I'd put into the homosexual content being cut though.
They should add more in if anything! (And to make it easy, just have an awkward S-class jump for convos that didn't seem to go there but suddenly turn into a proposal with cutscene )
I'm skeptical about this supposed email.
It's an attempt at word play that just fails miserably.
Road of Ease
Member
It's different in that NoE wouldn't have to restrain as much as Cartoon Network UK, because teens are an older audience. But I don't know much about ratings in Europe, so I can only speculate.
LMAO at your second question
That is not true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Europe
You are implying Nintendo would need to censor the gay marriage if the game were rated for all audiences instead of for teens and older. So apaprently gay marriage is harmful for younger children.
Elaugaufein
Member
We (Australia) don't have same sex marriage but same sex relationships wouldn't have been removed for us, we've had federally recognised civil unions for a while now. I'd be pretty surprised if we don't end up with full marriage equality after the next federal election (it's basically a super conservative group within our conservative party doing their best to hold back the tide).
If the removal of gay marriage turns out to be true, there's only one thing I can say: you reap what you sow. I don't care about the outfits in Project Zero and XCX, heck I would never even use them because I find them distasteful, but if I say it's okay to take them out or modify them then the next time they might change something I care about. And it looks like this might be one of those times.
To those saying that the rubbing minigame and gay marriage aren't the same, what do you think the reason for their removal was? Cultural and religious sensibilities. It's the same argument.
The email looks a bit sketchy, though. Why is it signed from someone from Nintendo UK if it was sent from Nintendo of Italy and why does it appear to be signed by Shibata? It would make sense if they posted a translation of Shibata's message but in the email they refer to him in third person (President Shibata's choice...). Should have read the email more carefully. The email in the end is just a contact in case you want more info on why Shibata made the choice to alter the content. Even so, it's strange because the NoE headquarters are in Germany so the contact email should be for Nintendo of Germany.
Still, I hope it proves to be false. Even though it would be extremely satisfying to watch the hypocrisy of the pro censorship crowd unfold, it would not outweigh how much of a shitty move it would be towards gay/bi people.
You left out a really important part.
To those saying that the rubbing minigame and gay marriage aren't the same, what do you think the reason for their removal was? Cultural and religious sensibilities. It's the same argument.
Still, I hope it proves to be false. Even though it would be extremely satisfying to watch the hypocrisy of the pro censorship crowd unfold, it would not outweigh how much of a shitty move it would be towards gay/bi people.
You left out a really important part.
(Note that I'm coming in late and am 90% sure that this discussion has been done to death by now.)
It's perfectly consistent, but you see the issue that arises if everyone held this point of view - it's intrinsic to your own personal value system. You're only amenable to localization which you're amenable to.
It works for a personal philosophy, but it can't really be applied to localization as a whole - unless you want these decisions to be made arbitrarily based on one individual's (or one group's) opinion. Unless you argue "there is an objective value system to apply," which you're welcome to, but I think that leads to the same problem.
Personally, I don't care about the removal of either, because I personally don't value you the ability to pet my soldiers OR have my in game avatar enter a same-sex marriage in this particular game. But I acknowledge that others DO value these things - many, MANY people in particular re: marriage options. So I dislike seeing content removed as a result, so long as said content doesn't diminish the enjoyment of people who aren't interested in it, which I don't think is the case for either.
It's perfectly consistent, but you see the issue that arises if everyone held this point of view - it's intrinsic to your own personal value system. You're only amenable to localization which you're amenable to.
It works for a personal philosophy, but it can't really be applied to localization as a whole - unless you want these decisions to be made arbitrarily based on one individual's (or one group's) opinion. Unless you argue "there is an objective value system to apply," which you're welcome to, but I think that leads to the same problem.
Personally, I don't care about the removal of either, because I personally don't value you the ability to pet my soldiers OR have my in game avatar enter a same-sex marriage in this particular game. But I acknowledge that others DO value these things - many, MANY people in particular re: marriage options. So I dislike seeing content removed as a result, so long as said content doesn't diminish the enjoyment of people who aren't interested in it, which I don't think is the case for either.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
It is still true, though Nintendo of Europe doesn't really service the East I guess. I'm saying that Spain legalised it a very long time ago and were the exception for a long time.
Italy and Germany still have not, and NOE is headquartered in Germany.
Shifty1897
Member
Yeah I'm all for not censoring things but this feature brought nothing to the game. If we want games and anime to be taken seriously on a global level, Japan has to cut out fan service and pervy creepiness in general.
Elaugaufein
Member
Don't think that's the line either . I'm perfectly happy with adaptions to keep the cultural impacts and meanings the same .I'm fine if the level of formality is changed to convey the same intended relationship, or if colors/symbols are changed to retain appropriate meanings (within reason, if you're changing the symbolism of cherry blossoms for a character that's explicitly a samurai, I'm probably going to think you're being silly). There's a pretty clear line between a good faith attempt to convey equivalent meaning and the usually far more hamfisted things done to avoid controversy
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
Of course that's censorship, silly.
Cause that's a feature gaf actually cares about.
Vyse The Legend
Member
Come on. No one in their right mind would argue that they're one and the same (the removal of drugging/petting vs. the removal of same-sex partnerships).
The removal of same-sex pairings is absolutely, without question, wrong. It's so wrong and offensively so that I truly have a hard time believing that rumor is true. Truly inconceivable to me.
Edit: And, I was right. It was just debunked.
It should be noted that NoE never acknowledged the Tomodachi Life controversy while NoA apologized.
While it's not molestation (either of the two things), pretty sure petting a fictional animal is decidedly less creepy than petting what looks to be an underage kid
I would pet a Machamp with the swiftness
Elaugaufein
Member
There's something of double standard here. A Song of Ice And Fire has more than it's share of straight up creepiness* but almost no one claims its not valid literature. Part of it is that literature is an old enough medium that no one is going to claim it's not a valid form of artistic expression. But another part just seems to be that slightly alien takes on things seem to make people much more sensitive to them (like the way people react to Japanese idols vs american pop stars).
*Way more than average for the genre books its usually compared too even.
Snkfanatic
Banned
So....that makes it molestation? It just seems like a rather extreme term to use to describe this mini game.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Should note that to some people, everything must be part of the package if it's originally there. Text is probably the most dubious one because it is the one thing that has to change, not because it's offensive, but because it simply doesn't translate well into English (for example).
Like you can't bring a japanese pun over into America the way it is because it makes no sense whatsoever. Those kinds of things are usually what people call localization. Not... removing things outright because of some reason that may or may not have been given.
Like you can't bring a japanese pun over into America the way it is because it makes no sense whatsoever. Those kinds of things are usually what people call localization. Not... removing things outright because of some reason that may or may not have been given.
I'm glad this turned out to be fake (it was fishy from the outset), but I am in no way saying face touching/drugging represent the same thing as same-sex marriages. What I AM saying is the excuse that was used to approve of the former.
"Localization." If one can't be applied to the other, then it shouldn't be used as a valid excuse at all. Otherwise, it's valid for both situations. Unless the significance of what is changed/removed somehow justifies whether something is "localization" or "censorship," which would be a real weird road to go down.
I think you need to recheck the definition of that word.
Lights and Waves
Member
Me too!
Palculator
Unconfirmed Member
ShinRPGamer
Member
I concur
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Let me answer you with my post from the other thread:
"Because the fact of the matter is, it IS just localization. However, in this case this instance of localization further infringes upon a historically oppressed minority.
So, even if this is just normal localization, it has now forced itself into a civil rights issue."
This minority has only very recently been able to see advancements in equality. So this is not a "censorship" issue. It's a localization and civil rights issue. The "petting" is only a localization issue. I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp for people.
It's not molestation, no.
It's creepy. That's why I said it's creepy.
But, I should edit that post so people don't think I'm defending the claims of molestation.
Throwing that word around is definitely a loaded gun.
--
It's good that the shitty rumor from Italy was fake,
theSlacker
Member
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