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[Durante]

Hilarious that the thread title is actually the least interesting bit out of the quoted text in the OP.

I agree with this, actually. Valve's stance on software diversity was pretty clear already.

I find the foveated rendering stuff a lot more exciting.

I agree with the AppStore comment all the way. Like I said on the Steam thread: VR doesn't need an killer app, it needs an ecosystem that shows that your 1000 dollar purchase is not just a one trick pony.

You are completely missing the point. He is obviously talking about having quality software: it's just that one big name means nothing.

Indeed.

It's he who equated their software prospects to a smatphone appstore. If he only wanted to say that the games won't have AAA production values but still offer atleast some semblance of quality then he should have chosen his words better.

If you read and understand his actual comment, what he does comment on is the similarity of the (early) smartphone marketplace with the (early) VR marketplace.

As in, traditional publisher roles and large "AAA" budgets are far less important, and that it provides a chance for smaller developers with great ideas to realize those and be successful.

I don't think that's far-fetched at all.

 

[GlamFM]

lol yeah cause that's comparable right

HL3 as a steam machine exclusive and these overpriced garbage boxes would be flying of the shelves.

VALVe is entirely out of touch and the massive failure that were the steam machines show that.

Software sells hardware, it´s always been like that.

EDIT: See right here:

Uhh... I don't want to hear this from the guys that launched Steam solely on the strength of HL2.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Phones are phones. People need them. The apps are sulphurous.
Crazy they are so blinkered.

 

[Possumowner]

It may not need one...but any chance we can have one or two please

 

[Shuggananas]

Uhh... I don't want to hear this from the guys that launched Steam solely on the strength of HL2.

?
HL2 (a killer app) made steam successful, but steam made PC gaming (a platform) sustainable, it's not HL2 that directly saved PC gaming
which is kinda his point isn't it ?

HL3 as a steam machine exclusive and these overpriced garbage boxes would be flying of the shelves.

VALVe is entirely out of touch and the massive failure that were the steam machines show that.

Software sells hardware, it´s always been like that.

EDIT: See right here:

steam machines are just fucking PCs
valve is so out of touch that they make millions and their games and steam keep growing

 

[Durante]

Facebook's acquisition says that they see Oculus as a form of communication. I think that sort of service might be a future for VR. We might find that Second Life and PlayStation Home were ahead of their time.

I always thought that Second Life was ahead of its time.

(Note: I participated in it very early on when it was primarily about people creating awesome stuff in a shared 3D environment. Not what it became later)

 

[viHuGi]

Lol Valve putting themselves at the same Spot as Apple is not going to end well for them.

 

[PuppetMaster]

Iphone launched without the store I recall...

 

[Zojirushi]

It's Valve talking about games. What can you even expect at this point...

 

[GlamFM]

?
HL2 (a killer app) made steam successful, but steam made PC gaming (a platform) sustainable, it's not HL2 that directly saved PC gaming
which is kinda his point isn't it ?


steam machines are just fucking PCs
valve is so out of touch that they make millions and their games and steam keep growing

It´s all gonna crash and burn one day. They don´t have the good will from the consumer on their side anymore.

Glorified salesmen in game developer disguise.

There are alternatives to steam out there and once people like VALVe about as much as EA they will start looking around.

 

[artsi]

I know people don't like exclusives, but honestly I don't really mind that Facebook is getting me stuff to play with Oculus.

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Fox318]

This is what happens when you root for the browns

It warps your mind into delusion.

Saying that VR is comparable to phones is like saying the Brown's are a good football team.

Hey Chet the iPhone was a device that iterated on one that people already felt was needed in life.

Since DOTA 2 valve has thought that they can offload actually game development to fans and third parties while they have been busy moving their desk from one inaptly managed project to the next.

It's a shame really because there game devolpment talent at Valve but we will likely never see an actual game from them ever again.

 

[Boombox On]

HL3 as a steam machine exclusive and these overpriced garbage boxes would be flying of the shelves.

VALVe is entirely out of touch and the massive failure that were the steam machines show that.

Software sells hardware, it´s always been like that.

Did you enter a parallel universe where Valve was a hardware company?

That would be like saying Google should only have its software on its Nexus phones. It doesn't align at all with the goals of the company.

Those can be in the range of just 20ms, but 120fps tracking should be 0.12ms latency right?

Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure there isn't a direct correlation between frame rate and latency.

 

[Shuggananas]

It´s all gonna crash and burn one day. They don´t have the good will from the consumer on their side anymore.

Glorified salesmen in game developer disguise.

There are alternatives to steam out there and once people like VALVe about as much as EA they will start looking around.

Alternatives ? Uplay and origin ?

See you in 10 years I guess
I know that you have a hate boner for valve because muh HL3 but get real

 

[Nzyme32]

I'm not convinced 120 FPS tracking is sufficient to fully realize the advantages of foveated rendering. I'm also extremely unconvinced they'll ship a product this year.

Yeah probably not. Ideally you would want to be able to track saccadic eye movements. Those can be in the range of just 20ms, but 120fps tracking should be 0.12ms latency right? So probably needs faster tracking for accuracy

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Iphone launched without the store I recall...

and as soon as it launched, it became its defining feature. to this day, the quality and quantity of apps available on iOS eclipses all other competitors combined and is the driving reasons to own an iOS device outside of the appeal of the base device itself.

The argument is sound.

 

[Durante]

Lol Valve putting themselves at the same Spot as Apple is not going to end well for them.

Every large technology company in existence (yes, that includes your personal favourite) wants nothing more on earth than to be Apple right now.

 

[Acrylic7]

You can get a mobile phone for $20 if all you want to do is call/text someone.

Or pay $40 and get a smartphone and make your life 1000x easier with apps lol.

 

[Nzyme32]

Lol Valve putting themselves at the same Spot as Apple is not going to end well for them.

You are missing the point.

The comparison isn't of Valve to apple, but that the App Store - which is an app in and of itself, is the killer app of the iphone. ie A single "AAA" killer app, is not what is necessary for VR

 

[GlamFM]

Alternatives ? Uplay and origin ?

See you in 10 years I guess
I know that you have a hate boner for valve because muh HL3 but get real

Don´t care for HL3 one bit, actually never been a big fan of HL 1&2.

I also don´t care for people blindly following VALVe because of past merits.

Every large technology company in existence (yes, that includes your personal favourite) wants nothing more on earth than to be Apple right now.

I think Apple would love to be Alphabet Inc. right now.

 

[8-Bit Sunset]

I called this 3 months ago.

Not good.
Valve know what people want and refuse to give it to them!
An app store like approach filled with 90% shit-ware like greenlight is NOT a good way to sell the "future" to people.
If Valve (lets be honest here) can't be bothered and rely on others to push it, It doesn't exactly fill me with confidence!
Sure there are good demos to play but save a few, they are only short lived experiences!

 

[Nabbis]

If you read and understand his actual comment, what he does comment on is the similarity of the (early) smartphone marketplace with the (early) VR marketplace.

As in, traditional publisher roles and large "AAA" budgets are far less important, and that it provides a chance for smaller developers with great ideas to realize those and be successful.

I don't think that's far-fetched at all.

Seems like damage control to wash Valves hands of any bad quality game flood. I don't know the specifics on their sofware strategy, but i don't believe Valve(or any other company) deserves any upfront goodwill for their pr statements. Especially when they drag smartphones and appstores into it. This whole VR business is filled with wishful thinking. First it was the low pricepoint and now it's about quality games.

 

[GlamFM]

I called this 3 months ago.

Not good.
Valve know what people want and refuse to give it to them!
An app store like approach filled with 90% shit-ware like greenlight is NOT a good way to sell the "future" to people.
If Valve (lets be honest here) can't be bothered and rely on others to push it, It doesn't exactly fill me with confidence!

He and everybody else seems to be forgetting that the iPhone shipped with a killer app.

You could be on the "real" internet on the go.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Phones are phones. People need them. The apps are sulphurous.
Crazy they are so blinkered.

Is it crazy? Valve have been like this for a while.

 

[papo]

If it is in the way it is asked in the last quoted part of the text, then yeah it doesn't need a killer app because VR will never replace "normal" couch/desk/tv/monitor gaming experience.

You ar enot going to see Valve, Naughty Dog or the big developers throw everything away and develop their AAA titles for VR. At most they will have and added mode, maybe not that good, to try it out. Similar to the way Uncharted included some 3D options.

But yeah I do not think they need that type of killer app, they need to be consistent with the experience to succeed.

 

[Nzyme32]

I called this 3 months ago.

Not good.
Valve know what people want and refuse to give it to them!
An app store like approach filled with 90% shit-ware like greenlight is NOT a good way to sell the "future" to people.
If Valve (lets be honest here) can't be bothered and rely on others to push it, It doesn't exactly fill me with confidence!

This doesn't have anything to do with taking an "app store approach". As is in the quote in the OP, VR will form something unique to it as phones did with the app store as an app and a place for content creators that are not traditional "AAA" creators

"Back then there weren't big creators on the platform, only lots of small ones, who today are bigger than classic AAA studios. We like smartphones and tablets because they offer us different experiences compared PCs and consoles. Same will happen with VR."

Even when it comes to gaming, the ideal size, length, content etc for VR is still not clear. That will be defined by what people like when VR headsets come out, and what ideas people come up with to fully utilise the medium

 

[clem84]

They've just made it really easy for me to figure out if I want to be on board this VR thing.

 

[biglittleps]

Alternatives ? Uplay and origin ?

See you in 10 years I guess
I know that you have a hate boner for valve because muh HL3 but get real

There is a chance for Windows 10 Microsoft store as they are releasing some of their Xbox exclusives one by one and also trying to unify both as their future platform. Considering Windows is the major platform used for gaming, so they can compete in future as a successful storefront for games if they offer some great deals like cross buy (Quantum break) between Xbox and PC to convince people to try to use their store.

 

[Zia]

What was the killer app for the iPhone.

The fact that everyone needed one in order to talk, text and use social networking apps?

What the fuck is going on at Valve?!

 

[spekkeh]

Steamboxes don't need a killer app. People will want a PC, therefore they will want a steambox. Just look at smartphones.

How's that working out for ya Valve.

 

[Shuggananas]

The fact that everyone needed one in order to talk, text and use social networking apps?

Phones could already do that before the iphone. Social networks through computers.

 

[GlamFM]

If it is in the way it is asked in the last quoted part of the text, then yeah it doesn't need a killer app because VR will never replace "normal" couch/desk/tv/monitor gaming experience.

You ar enot going to see Valve, Naughty Dog or the big developers throw everything away and develop their AAA titles for VR. At most they will have and added mode, maybe not that good, to try it out. Similar to the way Uncharted included some 3D options.

But yeah I do not think they need that type of killer app, they need to be consistent with the experience to succeed.

New technology needs a killer app for launch IMO.

Something that wouldn´t work in any other way.

If it´s just a gimmick to enhance existing experiences it will go the route of 3D TV.

Nintendo needed WiiSports to sell motion controls.

VR in general needs a killer app.

 

[Nzyme32]

Steamboxes don't need a killer app. People will want a PC, therefore they will want a steambox. Just look at smartphones.

How's that working out for ya Valve.

You didn't follow "steamboxes" did you. From the outset they made it clear, it isn't intended as a big seller right now, they intentionally started small. The whole idea isn't going to go anywhere for many years. There is a ton of work to be done, and the first thing they are pushing for is Vulkan

 

[GlamFM]

You didn't follow "steamboxes" did you. From the outset they made it clear, it isn't intended as a big seller right now, they intentionally started small. The whole idea isn't going to go anywhere for many years. There is a ton of work to be done, and the first thing they are pushing for is Vulkan

So what was it intended for?

 

[8-Bit Sunset]

As others have said the phone is the selling point or the other vast amount of useful things. Internet, email, music, Skype, movies, learning, books, apps and games etc.....
What is VR going to sell me on? Why should I upgrade my PC, and spend $600+ on a headset?
For an app store full of experimental VR games?
I want one but I will give it more time to develop and for Valve to commit itself more!

 

[Durante]

There is a chance for Windows 10 Microsoft store

So your alternative for PC gaming is something which kills PC gaming.

Great.

They've just made it really easy for me to figure out if I want to be on board this VR thing.

If you wanted on board for the "AAA killer apps" then you should thank them.

 

[Ikuu]

The fact that everyone needed one in order to talk, text and use social networking apps?

What the fuck is going on at Valve?!

Wait you needed a smartphone to talk and text?

 

[Azih]

The 'killer app' for smartphones is that they are the first really powerful completely portable computing devices that are easy and intuitive to operate..... Only thing VR has in common with that is really powerful and computing device.

I think Valve peeps are living in a bit of an echo chamber/bubble over there. The ignore the competition comment points towards that as well.

 

[benedictm]

Ugh. Not what I want to be hearing from Valve. Any excuse not to have to go back to full on game development I guess.

Haha. Perfect response. Valve: The Video Game company who are doing everything in their power to not make Video Games.

 

[papo]

New technology needs a killer app for launch IMO.

Something that wouldn´t work in any other way.

If it´s just a gimmick to enhance existing experiences it will go the route of 3D TV.

Nintendo needed WiiSports to sell motion controls.

VR in general needs a killer app.

Well yeah but what I mean is it doesn't need a killer app in the way a console needs it every year to succeed in the way if was discussed in that last question of the post.

Even Wii Sports was basically a tech demo of the hardware and the UI and that is as much as I expect. It is not really a game or a killer app, but a tech demo for the hardware. I am not seeing a big developer shifting big resources to work on VR only games.

 

[Dubz]

Smartphones do have a killer app: they're fucking phones, everybody needs one.

First post wins again.

 

[Nzyme32]

So what was it intended for?

Jesus, I have to dig out all the old posts. Long and short of it, they have no "target market" and they don't care about what that should be, if they are creating something new or if they are cannibalising something else. It's just more options for propagation of Steam / PC gaming. They already have Steam Link eating into the machines idea, but don't care because whatever solution works still benefits them. GAF in general has the assumption that these are a failure because they are not console "gangbuster" sellers, when that has never been the intention and hasn't even had such an investment of team behind it

This thread has got derailed enough so just read the stuff from 2013 / just prior to release:
http://67.227.255.239/forum/showpost.php?p=93597577&postcount=4239
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=182973881&postcount=159

 

[GlamFM]

Well yeah but what I mean is it doesn't need a killer app in the way a console needs it every year to succeed in the way if was discussed in that last question of the post.

Even Wii Sports was basically a tech demo of the hardware and the UI and that is as much as I expect. It is not really a game or a killer app, but a tech demo for the hardware. I am not seeing a big developer shifting big resources to work on VR only games.

Do you think the Wii would have been just as successful if it had launched with WiiMusic and WiiSports never existed?

 

[kinggroin]

I actually agree with this


VR by its own design and interface style means its not suited for extensive play times. Having a VR appstore for the kind of games built around short game sessions would be appreciated.

Not to say having support for the occasional big-budget, time-sink kind of game would be a bad thing either. Just that the former is more important IMO.

 

[Neuromancer]

Makes sense to me. There's not going to be one killer app but rather a full breadth and depth of easily accessible VR content (games, experiences and apps).

 

[AHA-Lambda]

Good luck.gif

 

[Shard]

Well yeah but what I mean is it doesn't need a killer app in the way a console needs it every year to succeed in the way if was discussed in that last question of the post.

Even Wii Sports was basically a tech demo of the hardware and the UI and that is as much as I expect. It is not really a game or a killer app, but a tech demo for the hardware. I am not seeing a big developer shifting big resources to work on VR only games.

Wii Sports was a such a masterstroke of a killer app that it really does need to be studied and dissected for future generations to understand.

 

[Nzyme32]

I actually agree with this


VR by its own design and interface style means its not suited for extensive play times. Having a VR appstore for the kind of games built around short game sessions would be appreciated

I completely agree, but it's good to point out that that also doesn't preclude longer games from more established studios / with greater funding. App stores are seeing bigger things like Xcom drop on them too

 

[kinggroin]

I completely agree, but it's good to point out that that also doesn't preclude longer games from more established studios / with greater funding. App stores are seeing bigger things like Xcom drop on them too

Check my edit. We're of the same mind

 

[Chû Totoro]

Smartphones do have a killer app: they're fucking phones, everybody needs one.

1st post.

I don't know but we should have a specific 1st post quote with something special.
It's so many times the best, concise answer to give to OP.