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Nintendo Life Rumor: EA and Nintendo to have meetings in March regarding NX.

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Luigiv

Member
Are PS4 and XB1 really 50x more powerful than Wii U?

I know the "_x more powerful" arguments are kinda silly to begin with, but 50x seems really high.

No. Realistically the PS4 is around 10x (give or take) the Wii U and the XBone is measurably less (maybe 7-8x).

Though the real ludicrous part here is that he says 50x WiiU or 100x Vita, inferring that the Vita is half as powerful as the Wii U. The Vita wishes it was anywhere near half a Wii U. This guy is all over the place. Both over and under estimating at the same time.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
A curious rumor. On one hand, the hdmi dongle sounds like a logical continuation. On the other, any game just running on the NX with a recompile is deeply questionable, even assuming an underlying engine (say, UE4) - there is a sufficient number of ps4 games that couldn't 'just run' on the xbone, and those two are as close as two consoles have ever been.

And the 50 wiiUs and the 100 vitas is WTF territory.
 

Rodin

Member
Gotta love how they imply wii u is only 2x more powerful than vita

We posted some shit in here but this "rumor" beats everything, probably even that old, epic rumor from the "Ubisoft Milano developer" and his "the WiiU has a modified HD6850 and Assassin's Creed 3 runs at 1080/60 on it".
 

Turrican3

Member
The real benefit is that instead of stretching their first and second party efforts across two different platforms they can pour all their efforts into a single ecosystem, which means a gamer who owns just one of the devices gets twice as many first-party games to play. Third parties are nice to have, but ultimately Nintendo's consoles are going to sell on the strength of their own games, and increasing the quantity and quality of them is their best route to success.
Not that I'd expect that, though. I'm expecting maybe XBO performance or a little less. [...] from the fact that the higher the performance of the home console, the more difficult cross-development becomes.
Basic premise: the late Iwata once said Nintendo with NX was taking into consideration various factors, including the playing environments that differ by country.

Having said that, I am starting to wonder... what if the strategy regarding third parties is to leverage on the (different!) strenghts of the japanese and western market?

I mean, Nintendo games are usually far less tech-demanding than the average AAA western third party ones.
Now, let's say Nintendo can get away with targeting the handheld and then "upscaling" to the home for their first/second party output, so that there are no more droughts, but STILL makes a PS4-level hardware home... and then, rely on japanese partners to mostly substain the handheld lineup, and western ones to push the home by allowing them to easily port their typical AAA applications (while still likely maintaining compatibility with the handheld japanese efforts, basically a win-win scenario for the home platform).

The only issue here - and I understand is hardly an insignificant one - would be that western AAA games wouldn't (obviously) run on the portable, so unless Nintendo decides to go full-digital with the distribution it would require some serious effort to avoid consumers confusion. That is, assuming both home and portable are being marketed under the same branding umbrella with a strong emphasis on cross platform compatibility.
 

Obliviate

Neo Member
Just found this:

I dont know how much credibility i should give this but i just wanted to share, because the idea of Analog controls have small motors inside for full haptic feedback sounds really cool.

Edit: Looks like its a banned site, sorry Gaf. /:
 

Rodin

Member
Basic premise: the late Iwata once said Nintendo with NX was taking into consideration various factors, including the playing environments that differ by country.

Having said that, I am starting to wonder... what if the strategy regarding third parties is to leverage on the (different!) strenghts of the japanese and western market?

I mean, Nintendo games are usually far less tech-demanding than the average AAA western third party ones.
... What? Are you even serious now?

What is For honor engine?
Anvil Next.
 
All those crazy rumors, man oh man. If the damn thing is similar to PS4 I'm happy, it's really all I hope it will be or better of course. I just want Nintendo to be back in the game and competing big time with the other two. It'll probably end up being too much to ask though.
 

Turrican3

Member
... What? Are you even serious now?
Absolutely, but *not* in a discrediting way, mind you.

I just wanted to say that (current) Nintendo doesn't seem to require their games to run on extremely powerful hardware: yes, they do make their own solid technical efforts (god bless the 60fps-first mentality they got especially since the Wii), but due to various artistic and technical design choices, they've been perfectly happy with modest hardware for a while now.

What if the infamous "absorb the WiiU architecture adequately" basically just means that we should expect that NX portable is more or less (at least visually) a WiiU-class machine?

Then, thanks to diminishing returns and things like that, NX home gets slightly updated visuals for first/second party efforts and that's totally fine for the kind of products they usually publish, yet... at the same time, due to still having a relatively powerful hardware, they can still get some AAA western effort that normally requires a certain computational level that's far beyond the handheld.

Just a wild guess on my part, but hey, we're still in full-speculation mode right now. ^__^
 

Rodin

Member
Absolutely, but *not* in a discrediting way, mind you.

I just wanted to say that (current) Nintendo doesn't seem to require their games to run on extremely powerful hardware: yes, they do make their own solid technical efforts (god bless the 60fps-first mentality they got especially since the Wii), but due to various artistic and technical design choices, they've been perfectly happy with modest hardware for a while now.
I see what you mean. But i would hope that if Nintendo makes a console in the same ballpark as the other two, they would use that level of hardware to actually improve gameplay and evolve their series, while also making them look as good as they possibly can (basically like they did on SNES, N64 and Gamecube, or with Zelda on the Wii U). What you're proposing may work for a good number of their series (2D Mario, Yoshi, Kirby, Fire Emblem, Luigi's Mansion, maybe DK, etc), but for games like Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Xenoblade or Splatoon, i'd say no. New entries for some of these series felt like a variation of the usual formula, which is ok since all of them were outstanding games, but i believe we're reaching the point where they need to take advantage of the new, more powerful hardware to evolve their series and bring some serious innovation in the way these franchises play. They did it with Zelda with the Wii U/NX version, and i'm pretty confident that they'll do it with Mario too and Metroid the next time it shows up.

What if the infamous "absorb the WiiU architecture adequately" basically just means that we should expect that NX portable is more or less (at least visually) a WiiU-class machine?

Then, thanks to diminishing returns and things like that, NX home gets slightly updated visuals for first/second party efforts and that's totally fine for the kind of products they usually publish, yet... at the same time, due to still having a relatively powerful hardware, they can still get some AAA western effort that normally requires a certain computational level that's far beyond the handheld.

Just a wild guess on my part, but hey, we're still in full-speculation mode right now. ^__^
I always thought that quote was more about tools/sdk/API and gamepad streaming tech, the portable being in that ballpark doesn't necessarily have any association with the Wii U architecture or its absorption.
 
I always thought that quote was more about tools/sdk/API and gamepad streaming tech, the portable being in that ballpark doesn't necessarily have any association with the Wii U architecture or its absorption.

Yes my initial interpretation was it was more about modern gpu architecture, seeing as there was so much fuss over them struggling to get to grips with it. It was new to them with Wii U, and will likely be AMD GCN based in their next handheld and console whatever they happen to be.
I don't think a handheld that basically resembles a low res Wii U is too much to ask for, but I'm cautious of expecting the console of being more than the handheld souped up to run at high res.

I don't like the way that rumour is written, saying the handheld runs in hd if you connect it wirelessly to a tv...
Unless... the dongle has a second apu in it that acts as a secondary computing device... But nah I don't think so.
 

Jackano

Member
I always thought that quote was more about tools/sdk/API and gamepad streaming tech, the portable being in that ballpark doesn't necessarily have any association with the Wii U architecture or its absorption.

Re-reading it, it's very difficult to know if Iwata was talking about hardware or middleware.
I'm reaching my limits when it comes to understand low-hardware things, but I believe the sdk is more difficult to iterate over if the hardware design change in the first place. Plus, as it was reminded to me on twitter by some fellow gaffers recently, there was that Vulkan API news thing.

In the end, I believe Iwata's quote was primarly refering to using a SoC/APU.
 

Turrican3

Member
But i would hope that if Nintendo makes a console in the same ballpark as the other two, they would use that level of hardware to actually improve gameplay and evolve their series
That (arguably) takes us back to one of the biggest issues Nintendo is facing though: with the ever-shrinking home market and the multiple occasions where Iwata and others stressed software droughts, I cannot really see them pushing for lots of first/second party home-exclusive content, unless the home console itself becomes a hit that is.

Which is obviously a catch 22 scenario. :-\

Having said that, I'm fairly confident Nintendo is perfectly able to improve and evolve their franchises without relying too much on a certain power-level, that frankly sooo many times is just being used to bring pretty graphics on screen, and not much else.
 

Rodin

Member
Yes my initial interpretation was it was more about modern gpu architecture, seeing as there was so much fuss over them struggling to get to grips with it. It was new to them with Wii U, and will likely be AMD GCN based in their next handheld and console whatever they happen to be.
I don't think a handheld that basically resembles a low res Wii U is too much to ask for, but I'm cautious of expecting the console of being more than the handheld souped up to run at high res.

I don't like the way that rumour is written, saying the handheld runs in hd if you connect it wirelessly to a tv...
Unless... the dongle has a second apu in it that acts as a secondary computing device... But nah I don't think so.
We're on the same page about the handheld and the rumor, but i think they know a souped up handheld wouldn't work as a main home console. Sure anything is possible, but hopefully they won't settle for that.

Re-reading it, it's very difficult to know if Iwata was talking about hardware or middleware.
I'm reaching my limits when it comes to understand low-hardware things, but I believe the sdk is more difficult to iterate over if the hardware design change in the first place. Plus, as it was reminded to me on twitter by some fellow gaffers recently, there was that Vulkan API news thing.

In the end, I believe Iwata's quote was primarly refering to using a SoC/APU.
I believe WiiU's GX2 API are based off OpenGL 4.X, and Vulkan is basically their "successor" so i think they should be backward compatible. But yeah, these statements shouldn't be taken literally, just like Miyamoto talking about CPU power or Kimishima saying that the Wii U failed because it was too much like the Wii.

That (arguably) takes us back to one of the biggest issues Nintendo is facing though: with the ever-shrinking home market and the multiple occasions where Iwata and others stressed software droughts, I cannot really see them pushing for lots of first/second party home-exclusive content, unless the home console itself becomes a hit that is.

Which is obviously a catch 22 scenario. :-

Having said that, I'm fairly confident Nintendo is perfectly able to improve and evolve their franchises without relying too much on a certain power-level, that frankly sooo many times is just being used to bring pretty graphics on screen, and not much else.
I think it's the other way around: without compelling software, and even some groundbreaking and somewhat desruptive games, it will be difficult to turn the new consoles into the success they want them to be. This may sound obvious but if they want to be successful they have to take risks, especially considering where they are now. For what it's worth, they made a bet on Splatoon and it paid off: the game sold more than 4 million copies in less than a year and helped making decent numbers (by WiiU standards at least) in Japan, which is a very important market to them.

About your last statement i agree, but that's what they did with basically every single Wii U game aside from Zelda (at least from what Aonuma is saying, which i currently don't have any reason to doubt) and Xenoblade (to a degree). And while i understand why they would do that on their first hd console with an entirely new gpu architecture (it was the first time they used programmable shaders), i can't find a reason for them to do the same thing on the next one. Mario 64, OOT and Metroid Prime were able to revolutionize their respective series thanks to more powerful hardware, and while it would be silly to expect another jump like that (which is impossible to replicate for obvious reasons) there's still a lot of room for improvements.
 
R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
I have brought this up before, but seeing as we are only two weeks away perhaps it's time to bring it up once more:

gdc16_nintendoy4p1e.png


Source: http://fp37.a2zinc.net/Clients/fpUBM/GDC2016/public/eventmap.aspx?shExhList=1&Shmode=E&MapID=25

This is the floor plans of the business center at GDC 2016. Nintendo only has these three small booths. What will be featured there I don't know, and I haven't been able to find any images of Nintendo's booths at GDC 2015 so I can't really guess. But BMR stands for Business Meeting Room, so that's what likely to happen.

I've been wondering if these meetings between EA and Nintendo are going to take place at GDC. It would make much sense due to effective cost management in terms of travel and time. Whether it would be in Nintendo's booths or off-site I don't know. There is this however:

BUSINESS CENTER SUITES (20X20 MINIMUM)

RATE DEADLINES
EARLY BIRD (3/7/15 - 1/5/16)

Rate Per Sq Ft $70

POST EARLY BIRD (1/6/16 - 3/13/16)

Rate Per Sq Ft $76

Gain flexibility and privacy at GDC. Hold private meetings, demo your company's latest tech to an exclusive audience, and host networking events and receptions--all in the privacy of your own Business Suite.

Location:
Business Center, North Hall

Hours:
Wednesday-Thursday March 16-17: 10am - 6pm
Friday, March 18: 10am - 3pm


  • Requires build-out at additional costs. Soundproof walls are available. Must use GES only.
  • Exhibitor can choose to have up to 20% of their expo suite open (for use of lounge, demo, reg area).
  • Business Suites come with passes based on size. See Expo Pass Grid for details.
  • Access to GDC Business Matchmaking allows you to request and receive meetings with GDC attendees and exhibitors for lead generation and business partnerships
Source: http://www.ubmgamenetwork.com/gdc/business-center.php

With a soundproof walls option maybe these BMRs could suffice for an NX meeting. If not, we have the NDA Rooms:

NDA ROOM OPTION
Private rooms located in Moscone, perfect for business meetings and/or product demos. The rooms can be rented just for the day, or across all 5 days of the conference.

RATE DEADLINES
1 FULL DAY $4,200
3 FULL DAYS $10,200
5 FULL DAYS $12,700

*Room assignments are based upon availability. Hours are 8am-7pm daily.

Rooms include:


  • Tables and Chairs (room will be set up with round table)
  • One 22x28 sign outside the room with sponsor logo
Client will need to order internet and anything else additional.
Source: http://www.ubmgamenetwork.com/gdc/business-center.php#nda-room.php

These NDA Rooms are found all over Moscone Center. There are some in West Mezzanine (262 for example). A full floor plan of the Moscone Center can be viewed here: https://www.moscone.com/pdf/floorplans/moscone_northsouth.pdf

Countdown until GDC 2016

t1457974800z4.png
 

bachikarn

Member
Absolutely, but *not* in a discrediting way, mind you.

I just wanted to say that (current) Nintendo doesn't seem to require their games to run on extremely powerful hardware: yes, they do make their own solid technical efforts (god bless the 60fps-first mentality they got especially since the Wii), but due to various artistic and technical design choices,

Some people seem to think the PS4 is a graphical beast, but it really was just "modest hardware" for 2013. To me, there is no reason Nintendo can't be in the same ball park (or better) unless they are trying to keep it really cheap, the gimmick takes too much of the budget, OR if they again have the same flawed philosophy of keeping it really small and energy efficient.
 

Rodin

Member
Maybe N and EA will meet at GDC, but don't expect to hear anything about the console from that meeting.

Some people seem to think the PS4 is a graphical beast, but it really was just "modest hardware" for 2013. To me, there is no reason Nintendo can't be in the same ball park (or better) unless they are trying to keep it really cheap, the gimmick takes too much of the budget, OR if they again have the same flawed philosophy of keeping it really small and energy efficient.
Personally i'm not one of those people, but i'm pretty sure low price point and new concept will be very important factors. If i thought or knew that Nintendo was willing to eat a small loss and sell a console for 350$ at d1 again, i would fully expect the NX to be more powerful than Xbox One and PS4 combined, but i doubt they would do that, or that they even care about horsepower to the point that they would do that. With this in mind, it's not easy to build a more powerful console than what Sony currently has at the same price or even lower, especially if the new gimmick raises costs, but as long as the console is in the same ballpark i won't really care. Current gen graphics are more than ok to me.
 

Hermii

Member
Some people seem to think the PS4 is a graphical beast, but it really was just "modest hardware" for 2013. To me, there is no reason Nintendo can't be in the same ball park (or better) unless they are trying to keep it really cheap, the gimmick takes too much of the budget, OR if they again have the same flawed philosophy of keeping it really small and energy efficient.

I believe we will get a cheap, small and power efficient console. I doubt they will go with an expensive gimmick.

But at least they will probably drop BC this time (hopefully) so they can go with newer tech,
 
In the now locked thread I read that this source apparently leaked a lot of correct info in the past about Pokémon, Sony, MS with Illumiroom etc. If that's true, I guess this new rumor is somewhat interesting. Except for the ridiculous stuff about power.
 

Peru

Member
Some people seem to think the PS4 is a graphical beast, but it really was just "modest hardware" for 2013. To me, there is no reason Nintendo can't be in the same ball park (or better) unless they are trying to keep it really cheap, the gimmick takes too much of the budget, OR if they again have the same flawed philosophy of keeping it really small and energy efficient.

"No reason" unless "lots of reasons". It's not suddenly dirt cheap to make a console PS4 level. Not at all.
 

wrowa

Member
I mean its their job to try and appeal to a wide enough audience to sustain themselves. Can't sell every type of game to one small sliver of the market. I'm certainly not gonna start buying Madden or Fifa but those people are out there if Nintendo wants to compete for them.

Those people are out there ... playing FIFA, Madden, Call of Duty and co on their PS4 or Xbox One.

The biggest issue Nintendo faces with these games is that the audience is already invested on other systems. Since playing online is one of the huge draws of these games, it's also not simple to convince someone to switch. After all, this would mean that he or she can't play with his or her friends anymore.

Nintendo would need to deliver a damn good reason if they want to attract that audience. I'm not convinced that such a reason even exists.
 

BuggyMike

Member
Haha I found it. Reads like pure fan fiction.

The last thread got closed for filterless rumour discussion and we were discussing much more solid rumours that eventually got verified, so I suggest we leave this one alone.

Yes please lets just leave that worthless rumor alone. Seriously just made this interesting thread 100x more boring and wasted 50x more of our time.
 
I don't think it is entirely Nintendo's fault. It's Nintendo's finicky demographic that rarely supports anything that is not created by Nintendo. I doubt anything is really going to change this time with the NX, but we will see.
I think this post is pretty much on point. Nintendo has backed itself into a corner. It's not going to get the 'core' Ass Creed, CoD, FIFA etc. gamers back any time soon. It's cultivated a console environment that doesn't cater to these people for the last couple of generations. Even if NX launched out of the gate with a nice, powerful console and the latest CoD, FIFA, Fallout et al, it really wouldn't do much at all, IMO. Even if these were created to take advantage of NX's power capabilities. Most of Nintendo's audience just doesn't buy these games. Yes, we see a lot of complaints on here about poorly made ports, 1 year later, lacking DLC etc, but these people are in the minority, I'm afraid. It's not that the majority of people aren't buying games due to the aforementioned reasons, they're not buying them because they're just not interested. These games don't cater to them.

The above said, I look forward to reading the same excuses about poor ports being the reason these games aren't selling if any do end up coming to NX.
 
True. And people tend to forget the Wii U was not competing with ps4 & xbone at the time. Some ports performed better than the competition and still sold like shit.
 

Doctre81

Member
No. Realistically the PS4 is around 10x (give or take) the Wii U and the XBone is measurably less (maybe 7-8x).

No. In fact even microsoft said that the xbox one is about 8x the 360. Neither the ps4 or xbox one are 8 or 10x WiiU. Around 4x with more modern architecture is a more realistic number.
 
You can't just take one aspect and say that's why Nintendo has failed in the past. It's a multitude of reasons.

Hardware Power
Price
Software Support (And timely releases)
Gimmicks (Need to be really good if included)
Multimedia Features
Online Service
Etc

They pretty much need to get them all right to succeed, which is no small task. If Nintendo boo boo yet another home console I see no way of them coming back, beyond selling to the Nintendo faithful only.

They HAVE to get this one right!
 

hokahey

Member
I think this post is pretty much on point. Nintendo has backed itself into a corner. It's not going to get the 'core' Ass Creed, CoD, FIFA etc. gamers back any time soon. It's cultivated a console environment that doesn't cater to these people for the last couple of generations. Even if NX launched out of the gate with a nice, powerful console and the latest CoD, FIFA, Fallout et al, it really wouldn't do much at all, IMO. Even if these were created to take advantage of NX's power capabilities. Most of Nintendo's audience just doesn't buy these games. Yes, we see a lot of complaints on here about poorly made ports, 1 year later, lacking DLC etc, but these people are in the minority, I'm afraid. It's not that the majority of people aren't buying games due to the aforementioned reasons, they're not buying them because they're just not interested. These games don't cater to them.

The above said, I look forward to reading the same excuses about poor ports being the reason these games aren't selling if any do end up coming to NX.

No. Just no. Nintendo audiences don't want bad ports or part 3 in a series with no ability to play parts 1 and 2.

These companies make half assed attempts and then say "see, won't sell." And then the myth gets perpetuated.

Now granted, a small install base is never a recipe for big sales. But you can get the people there to buy in with the right quality. And you can build a larger audience with quality.

Nintendo needs to do more out the gate to create excitement and have third parties putting their best foot forward. If that recipe fails, great. But it never would.
 

bachikarn

Member
I believe we will get a cheap, small and power efficient console. I doubt they will go with an expensive gimmick.

But at least they will probably drop BC this time (hopefully) so they can go with newer tech,

If they do that, than to me that haven't really learned anything. Small and power efficient is not something the West cares about at all. Given how much the Japanese console market is struggling, it would be dumb be not to take Western considerations as a big part of the design the philosophy. It's basically not value added to do that.

"No reason" unless "lots of reasons". It's not suddenly dirt cheap to make a console PS4 level. Not at all.

Not really, because people make it seem like it is some great task to beat out the PS4, when it really isn't. Of the reasons I listed.

1) You can't make the console too cheap, or it would be on the same level as the handheld
2) Nintendo made an expensive gimmick with the Wii U, and it bit them. I'm doubtful they will go all in with the gimmick again
3) As I addressed above, small and power efficient is not something the West really cares about, and really should not be an important design philosophy any more. Even so, the PS4 isn't terribly big, and if they are just trying to match it's power, they can come out with a smaller box.

I just don't think it should be super shocking that Nintendo can make a system more powerful than the PS4. PS4 was not a graphical and expensive beast like the X360 and PS3 were at the time.
 
R

Rösti

Unconfirmed Member
8c236b6a16f5f39e01acda71c208feae.png


Look what I found,. This developer worked on Guitar hero live.

QA Technician
FreeStyleGames
march 2012 – october 2012 (8 months)
Dev QA experience with a music game project on unreleased Nintendo console, working with and adapting to regularly evolving documentation and hardware.

Functional Quality Assurance and Compliance testing

Wii U
 
No. Just no. Nintendo audiences don't want bad ports or part 3 in a series with no ability to play parts 1 and 2.

These companies make half assed attempts and then say "see, won't sell." And then the myth gets perpetuated.

Now granted, a small install base is never a recipe for big sales. But you can get the people there to buy in with the right quality. And you can build a larger audience with quality.

Nintendo needs to do more out the gate to create excitement and have third parties putting their best foot forward. If that recipe fails, great. But it never would.
Those on par games would sell to a small audience of Nintendo owners that want all games on Nintendo's console. This is a vocal minority on GAF and other sites. There's a large chunk of Nintendo's core audience that mainly plays Nintendo games that just wouldn't give a shit.

Would the on par games do well with the crowd that wants it all on a Nintendo console? Yes. Is that crowd big enough to be sustainable for third parties? I doubt it.
 

bachikarn

Member
No. Just no. Nintendo audiences don't want bad ports or part 3 in a series with no ability to play parts 1 and 2.

These companies make half assed attempts and then say "see, won't sell." And then the myth gets perpetuated.

Now granted, a small install base is never a recipe for big sales. But you can get the people there to buy in with the right quality. And you can build a larger audience with quality.

Nintendo needs to do more out the gate to create excitement and have third parties putting their best foot forward. If that recipe fails, great. But it never would.

I think you are both right. Nintendo has to cultivate an audience that will buy those games. They did in the N64 with Goldeneye. The N64 being the shooter fan's go to system. Then it switched to Xbox because of Halo and the online capabilities.

Basically Retro has to start making games that appeal to Western gamers. Then people will buy the system for their game(s), and then these consumers would be more likely to buy Western third party offerings.

It's not unreasonable that people who are fans of Mario and Smash would not want to get every Western third party game out there (esp if they are gimped ports). But if you cultivate a new audience based on a different type of first party exclusive, they might.

And maybe that is a losing battle, and they should instead focus on getting Japanese third parties and become the premier place to play those type of games.
 
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