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[Deleted member 80556]

Insisting that he could talk only as an expert, and not as a spokesman for Nato, Sārts said: “[Russia] is establishing a network that can be controlled. You can use it as they have tried to do in Germany, combined with the legitimate issue of refugees, to undercut political processes in a very serious way. Angela Merkel has been a very adamant supporter of continued sanctions against Russia If it was just punishment, that would be OK – but it is testing whether they can build on pre-existing problems and create a momentum where there is political change in Germany.

“I think they test whether they can – in such a big country, with not so many vulnerabilities in normal times – actually create a circumstance through their influence where there is a change of top leadership. They are using Russian speakers, social media, trying to build on the existing faultlines. Use the far right narrative and exploit that.”

Sārts, who has access to intelligence briefings, added: “In general terms, you can trace Russian funding to the extreme forces in Europe. Either left or right – as long as they are extreme, they are good to come into the Russian picture as of possible use in their tactics.”

He said: “We saw it in Germany. The best misinformation tool is when your opponent doesn’t notice. That is when it is most effective. I would submit that there are a number of countries who have not yet noticed, or have chosen not to notice.”

From The Guardian.

An example of this, posted by a fellow Gaffer.

Kind of scary that this doesn't surprise me in the least. Russia knows how to do propaganda, but the fact that people don't notice at all is worrisome, I wonder if it's being done the same in other countries to destabilize the EU.

 

[YoungFa]

I knew it.

 

[antonz]

For a few weeks now there has been a lot of stuff coming out regarding this. Going as far back as the New Years cases with Russia deliberately creating false cases etc.

Russia benefits by a deeply divided and conflicted Europe.

 

[Elfforkusu]

Vengeance for the February revolution!

 

[sunshine and gasoline]

Fascinating stuff and a bit disquieting as well.

 

[bonesmccoy]

Yea, this is what governments do.

 

[params7]

Now that is some conspiracy theory.

 

[Condom]

Now that is some conspiracy theory.

Not really a theory though, it's pretty transparent. EU has been doing the same.

 

[Barajas_201]

RT at it again with their conspiracy theor... oh its NATO, then it must be true.

 

[MikeDown]

NATO continuing to pound on the war drums

 

[AcademicSaucer]

RT at it again with their conspiracy theor... oh its NATO, then it must be true.

Indeed, Hollywood told me they are the good guys.

 

[antonz]

NATO continuing to pound on the war drums

Or Russia continues to fund Far left and Far Right parties for the exact purpose of destabilization.

Back in January the Russian media created a case of a 13 year old German-Russian Girl who was supposedly gang raped by Arab Migrants over a 30 hour period. They claimed the German Government was refusing to cooperate with Moscow. Russia went as far as to create fake videos of supposed suspects bragging about it.

Eventually it was revealed the girl had run away from home and stayed at a friends house because she was having trouble in school and was afraid to tell her parents.

or how about when Ukraine was supposedly Crucifying 5 year olds in the streets and Russia was broadcasting these allegations across Europe.

 

[linsivvi]

It's sad that both the US and Russia have been doing this shit to many countries, and they continue to do so even though the Cold War is over.

 

[Chichikov]

I have no first hand knowledge of any of this and I definitely wouldn't put it past Russia to try it (or any country for that matter, all major geopolitical players fund and support opposition organizations in other countries) and it's certainly a shameful thing to do -
HOWEVER, he better have damn strong evidence, because stoking fears of refugees as agents provocateurs can lead to really bad things, like it had done in the past.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

RT at it again with their conspiracy theor... oh its NATO, then it must be true.

Seems like something that would be laughed off if a similar case came from Russia, just shows the misplaced trust some put on organizations that don't give a shit about them. True or not it is a conspiracy, not out of the realm of possibility but most conspiracies aren't.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

It's sad that both the US and Russia have been doing this shit to many countries, and they continue to do so even though the Cold War is over.

Don't kid yourself. The Cold War never ended, it simply changed.

 

[Purkake4]

Just the Russian information warfare expanding further west thanks to the fertile ground available. Nothing new in the methods or objectives.

Also nice to see all that all usual suspects are already here.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Fucking cunts. Russiangovernment, to be clear, for funding racist shitheads.

 

[ElTorro]

Would not be too surprised if one of the reasons why Russia is engaged in the Syrian war and deliberately bombs civilian targets is to add to the refugee crisis and thus to Europe's and the EU's internal struggles.

 

[noshten]

Russia has been funding Nationalistic parties in Easter Europe for over a decade, these parties usually want out of Europe and out of NATO. So it's hardly surprising Putin is now starting to fund opposition in Germany.

 

[jellies_two]

Would not be too surprised if one of the reasons why Russia is engaged in the Syrian war and deliberately bombs civilian targets is to add to the refugee crisis and thus to Europe's and the EU's internal struggles.

This scenario was discussed on bbc radio today
Russia wants to see EU divided and arguing, its using Syria to help with this. It has made a big difference by entering on the side of Assad and making the refugee situation worse would only weaken europe. They didn't suggest they were purposefully bombing civilians in fact they boast about their accuracy but making NATO look weak is definitely advantageous for russia.

 

[michaelius]

Western Europe has chosen to ignore warning signs like Georgia conflict for years. Can't say I'm sorry for them now when they start to bear consequences of it.

 

[Musician]

Revenge for Germany sending Lenin into Russia during the first world war, I bet.

 

[lazygecko]

There is absolutely a widespread Russian misinformation campaign affecting virtually all of Europe and not just Germany. A politically fractured and destabilized EU means much less diplomatic resistance against Russian foreign interests.

It's sad that both the US and Russia have been doing this shit to many countries, and they continue to do so even though the Cold War is over.

The ideological angle was always very superficial. The collapse of the Soviet Union changed little in regards to the geopolitical rivalry.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

That's the guy Trump likes. Or would control. Or something.

 

[Bedameister]

Well the whole thing with that rape story about that german girl should not make you wonder about this anymore.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

I am not surprised at all. US does the same thing in other countries.

 

[Purkake4]

Well the whole thing with that rape story about that german girl should not make you wonder about this anymore.

Yeah, that was a very blatant example of this. Link if anyone wants to read about it.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Russia has been funding Nationalistic parties in Easter Europe for over a decade, these parties usually want out of Europe and out of NATO. So it's hardly surprising Putin is now starting to fund opposition in Germany.

This. We have our fair share here in The Netherlands as well. It's not only Russia, but also right wing Israel forces.

 

[Xando]

Well the whole thing with that rape story about that german girl should not make you wonder about this anymore.

Pretty much. Putin knows Russia has a fanbase in germany which is rather pro Putin/ anti American.

 

[andythinkpad]

Damn, Putin is going to name it in colored revolution convention.

Maybe a "Black Revolution"?

 

[Riddick]

Hmmm, let me think. Who started the Iraq war that is the main cause of this clusterfuck in the Middle East? Who spread propaganda and later funded and armed the Libya and Syria rebels? Was it Russia? Hmmm, I think it was NATO members who did all that shit.

 

[sinxtanx]

I have no first hand knowledge of any of this and I definitely wouldn't put it past Russia to try it (or any country for that matter, all major geopolitical players fund and support opposition organizations in other countries) and it's certainly a shameful thing to do -
HOWEVER, he better have damn strong evidence, because stoking fears of refugees as agents provocateurs can lead to really bad things, like it had done in the past.

what if HE's the russian agent?

anyone could be really

we need audits

audits of citizens

preferably with pointed questions about allegiance

 

[params7]

Hmmm, let me think. Who started the Iraq war that is the main cause of this clusterfuck in the Middle East? Who spread propaganda and later funded and armed the Libya and Syria rebels? Was it Russia? Hmmm, I think it was NATO members who did all that shit.

Leaked cables suggest U.S. stoking civil unrest in Syria years before the civil war broke out against Assad. Probably false rumors, as only Russia would stoop down to such tactics.

 

[Palculator]

Cold War never stopped.

 

[Onlinehero]

Hmmm, let me think. Who started the Iraq war that is the main cause of this clusterfuck in the Middle East? Who spread propaganda and later funded and armed the Libya and Syria rebels? Was it Russia? Hmmm, I think it was NATO members who did all that shit.

Russian infiltration gettin' shit done.

 

[iPaul93]

Not surprising at all.

 

[Kathian]

Why would they be interested in toppling her specifically? They could get a more anti Putin replacement quite easily. She's very much German interest rather than purely NATO interest.

 

[psynergylover]

The Cold War never ended

 

[olag]

I certainly wouldnt put this past putin, especially with how Russia hosted a meet for all the European right wing parties a while back. But as others have said if an organisation such as NATO starts making these accusations then it needs to have evidence to back it up.

 

[noshten]

Hmmm, let me think. Who started the Iraq war that is the main cause of this clusterfuck in the Middle East? Who spread propaganda and later funded and armed the Libya and Syria rebels? Was it Russia? Hmmm, I think it was NATO members who did all that shit.

Obviously, I don't think anyone can seriously think that Russia is the only one "stocking unrest", it's a large scale pissing contest that has been going for over 50 years. Perhaps there was a decade where Russia wasn't too involved in foreign policy matters but at the time they didn't have NATO on their doorstep, or US funding opposition in places like Ukraine.

Saying Russia is stocking the current refugee crisis could be true to the degree but obviously the bigger reason is how Western States deal with Middle East and Northern Africa. Removing dictators has created a huge power vacuum and instability which has lead to the huge refugee wave and civil wars in places like Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Libya etc.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Why would they be interested in toppling her specifically? They could get a more anti Putin replacement quite easily. She's very much German interest rather than purely NATO interest.

Merkel is the most important leader in Europe for now. She is very pro-EU, which is a threat to Russia which would like to have Eastern Europe back into its sphere of influence. The EU is taking that away (and rightfully so after decades of oppression by Russia there).

 

[Suen]

Leaked cables suggest U.S. stoking civil unrest in Syria years before the civil war broke out against Assad. Probably false rumors, as only Russia would stoop down to such tactics.

Yep. Pretty sure it was soon after Syria rejected Turkey and Qatar's plan to have a pipeline go through it. It's not like US is unfamiliar with Syria anyway, after all they helped overthrowing it's democratically elected government decades ago. Anyway I'd put Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia as being more responsible for the situation than US.

 

[Nabbis]

Merkel is the most important leader in Europe for now. She is very pro-EU, which is a threat to Russia which would like to have Eastern Europe back into its sphere of influence. The EU is taking that away (and rightfully so after decades of oppression by Russia there).

I seriously doubt that the EU even needs Russian help in fucking itself up. Same goes for Merkel due to her "party at my house plebs" statement.

 

[Enosh]

Russia supporting political parties that don't want to put sanctions on them or demonize them?

how shocking

Hmmm, let me think. Who started the Iraq war that is the main cause of this clusterfuck in the Middle East? Who spread propaganda and later funded and armed the Libya and Syria rebels? Was it Russia? Hmmm, I think it was NATO members who did all that shit.

also this, NATO complaining about destabilization is one of those pot calling the kettle black things

 

[ClosingADoor]

I seriously doubt that the EU even needs Russian help in fucking itself up. Same goes for Merkel due to her "party at my house plebs" statement.

True, but funding those anti-EU groups with Russian money and spreading propaganda certainly helps move things along quicker.

also this, NATO complaining about destabilization is one of those pot calling the kettle black things

NATO wasn't involved in Iraq. Libya was a UN decision which Russia did not vote against.

There is plenty to blame on the individual NATO states involved, but it is not as simple as saying NATO screwed it all up. It's a defensive alliance still.

 

[Giant Panda]

Scary stuff. Russia is trying to spread their tyranny yet again. What's truly sad is that there are people in Europe that actually like Russia.

 

[Ahasverus]

Fuuuuck the russian government, simply disgusting human beings, the world would be a better place without them.

 

[Phantast2k]

Scary stuff. Russia is trying to spread their tyranny yet again. What's truly sad is that there are people in Europe that actually like Russia.

The ironic thing is that even some migrants and their children support this shit and all the other "anti-Western" things Russia does while living in the West themselves (like some in this thread).
However, life's going to be pretty damn shitty for them once the nationalist / neo-Nazi parties gain upper hand in their countries.

 

[Mr Swine]

The ironic thing is that even some migrants and their children support this shit and all the other "anti-Western" things Russia does while living in the West themselves (like some in this thread).
However, life's going to be pretty damn shitty for them once the nationalist / neo-Nazi parties gain upper hand in their countries.

I really don't get it what they are thinking of :/