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Stardew Valley: Token minority character

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My quick gut reaction is that the last place you'd expect to find diversity in is a rural farming town in America. Diversity in games is an important fight, but this is perhaps not the right place for it

My second reaction is more questioning just how much we want people with no firsthand experience with a given "life situation" to handle them

With a bigger studio you could make a great point that they should merely be hiring more diverse people to give us more diverse stories and experiences

You can't make such an argument with a one-man studio
 
Nationality is much more important here.

If your character is not from the country or even region you are from he might as well be an alien.

So "so many white protagonists" actually reads here as "so many American protagonists", ooh look another game where the hero is American, or at best, British. ZZZzzzzz.

For British, read English.
 
My quick gut reaction is that the last place you'd expect to find diversity in is a rural farming town in America. Diversity in games is an important fight, but this is perhaps not the right place for it

Stardew Valley doesn't exist. It's a farming town but it's a fake farming town created for a game. It's not an Amish life sim it's just a fun game. So shutting down the idea that the game could be more diverse by saying it's supposed to be a 1:1 representation of an actual rural town is disingenuous.

How dare you. You are supposed to feel opressed and discriminated! What are you doing!!!

It's fine if you don't have a problem with the lack of diversity but that's no reason to lampoon the people honestly looking for it. No one has forced you to care about the topic. You came into the topic on your own volition.
 

Sylas

Member
My quick gut reaction is that the last place you'd expect to find diversity in is a rural farming town in America. Diversity in games is an important fight, but this is perhaps not the right place for it

My second reaction is more questioning just how much we want people with no firsthand experience with a given "life situation" to handle them

With a bigger studio you could make a great point that they should merely be hiring more diverse people to give us more diverse stories and experiences

You can't make such an argument with a one-man studio

I want to reiterate this since I'm afraid it'll get lost on the last page, but why do you think it's important that someone with a specific skin color accurately represents that specific culture?

I know a handful of people--anecdotally--that were thrilled when they could just make their character black in Pokemon X/Y. It had nothing to do with the culture of being black, but simply being able to make a character that looked like them. I don't think most people are asking for cultural representation in fictional worlds. Just physical representation.
 

Paches

Member
If the game were farming similar other than stawdew valley, then these points would mean something. You guys can repeat the demographics of your specific locale until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't really address the issue. It just seems like a cheap way to shutdown discussion. Your community isn't representative of every farming town as mentioned by previous posters.

You are quite right, but these communities DO exist. To pick Stardew Valley as an example of a lack of diversity I think is choosing the wrong game to make example out of. I agree games in general under represent minorities, but this one doesn't strike me at all as being one of those.

Weather forecasts 100% accurate.

I call bullshit.

Shit. Well, the weatherman could just say "Overcast with possibility of rain" everyday and be pretty close to 100%.
 

caleb1915

Member
Stats on ethnicity does nothing. That's too narrow of a view. This is a bigger issue. Ignore the farming town stats.


Your diet racism posts contribute nothing.

Just be upfront with me, call me a racist man. Because now I'm thinking anyone who disagrees with you is enough to be one in your eyes, and if I deny it you'll just put more words in my mouth and then cry foul when I disagree claiming I'm not contributing to any discussion.

Edit: Or hell, I don't even have to disagree with you, I didn't at first and my posts showed that, but you singled me out, used a bunch of straw man arguments, and then got on my ass again when I replied to someone else a few hours later(I had shit to do SORRY).

What's your problem with me? Are you projecting some sort of personal issue on to me for some reason?
 

Key789

Banned
It matters because representation matters.
Should a game designer be forced to change their artistic vision for representation purposes? Because if that is the case, this problem is one that is systemic in every medium. I just worry that policing artists to ensure equal representation may stiffle artistic vision. Obviously using stereotypes is not OK, but I don't necessarily believe representation matters as long as what is being represented is done so in a respectful manner.
 
You are quite right, but these communities DO exist. To pick Stardew Valley as an example of a lack of diversity I think is choosing the wrong game to make example out of. I agree games in general under represent minorities, but this one doesn't strike me at all as being one of those.

And other communities DO exist, we can go in circles on that point all day. No one made a huge deal out of stardew or is trying to make an example out of it, it was merely a suggestion from what I saw. What escalates the topic is others trying to downplay it by saying since their area isn't diverse, then it's fine.

Also, nonsense like this:

How dare you. You are supposed to feel opressed and discriminated! What are you doing!!!

I'm half black and Hispanic. I don't see racism everywhere, I don't think white people are evil, my spouse is British(white) and my son is mixed. I just would like better representation in games in general. If the game was representing a specific locale (in real life), then I'd be less prone to even care. But there is some room here for critique.

I'm sick of seeing black folks be gangbangers, slaves, and caricatures in media. No one is saying boycott stardew valley, it was a mere suggestion that could easily be taken going forward.
 

Sylas

Member
Should a game designer be forced to change their artistic vision for representation purposes? Because if that is the case, this problem is one that is systemic in every medium. I just worry that policing artists to ensure equal representation may stiffle artistic vision. Obviously using stereotypes is not OK, but I don't necessarily believe representation matters as long as what is being represented is done so in a respectful manner.

Is art sacred, or can art be changed by the world around it?

It's a fundamental question that sits at the base of the argument. "Artistic vision" comes from some sort of bias (I say as a creator. A writer, but still) and that bias should consistently be challenged. To stagnate and to dig in your heels is to die as a creator. I don't think there's anything wrong with someone asking, "Why didn't you include someone that looks like <x> in your vision?"

There's something absolutely wrong with people demanding it and being cruel and malicious, but very few people actually do that. Most people just want to know why something happened. Even if the answer is, "Oh, I didn't think about that."
 

Velkyn

Member
While I do agree with the premise that there needs to be more diversity in games (Like how Manhattan seems to be pretty whitewashed in The Division, but that's another story), I kind of take some offense to how you dismissed Demetrius' half-black daughter as if she doesn't count as a black character.

My daughter is half Chinese, so maybe I'm a bit sensitive about these things, but in my view, half-black is still considered a visible minority.

That being said, I think we can do a lot better in the games space to make sure that every character isn't some variation of white guy/lady.
 

Infinite

Member
Should a game designer be forced to change their artistic vision for representation purposes? Because if that is the case, this problem is one that is systemic in every medium. I just worry that policing artists to ensure equal representation may stiffle artistic vision. Obviously using stereotypes is not OK, but I don't necessarily believe representation matters as long as what is being represented is done so in a respectful manner.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. OP is merely critiquing the game and art isn't immune to criticism. We criticize a game for a myriad of reasons including its mechanics story characters or whatever, this is literally no different. The sky isn't falling because one person had something negative to say about a game.
 
Should a game designer be forced to change their artistic vision for representation purposes? Because if that is the case, this problem is one that is systemic in every medium. I just worry that policing artists to ensure equal representation may stiffle artistic vision. Obviously using stereotypes is not OK, but I don't necessarily believe representation matters as long as what is being represented is done so in a respectful manner.

No game is 100% pure untouched artistic representation. The "artist vision" is changed by the parameters and limitations of the project, it can be changed by producers or marketers. If every game is 100% the artist vision then we still have the opportunity to critique that all the time in regards to graphics, music, sound, style, setting, characters, distribution choices etc. Yet somehow on a board built on game critique, this particular topic is the one to spear the sacred artist's vision?
 
My quick gut reaction is that the last place you'd expect to find diversity in is a rural farming town in America. Diversity in games is an important fight, but this is perhaps not the right place for it

My second reaction is more questioning just how much we want people with no firsthand experience with a given "life situation" to handle them

With a bigger studio you could make a great point that they should merely be hiring more diverse people to give us more diverse stories and experiences

You can't make such an argument with a one-man studio

I'll say it again, you'd be wrong. I'm from a small farming town of 1000 people, I thought it was 800 but the population increased. The area is very white, with them taking up 77%, but it's 11% black and 11% Latino. If you leave the house you won't go a day without seeing a black person their. I mean I'm sure their are homogenous farming towns, but it's ridiculous to discuss this when demographics sckew heavily from state to state.
 
Dont want to be offensive. But would posters like this satisfied if there was a checklist of races of characters you needed to add to a game? Because if so....I would think that would be very annoying for a game developer.

I dont really look at the races of charcters in game. Just play for the gameplay or story....
 
I want there to be a lot more diversity in video game experiences, but I think this is a good representation of rural life. I live in Texas and the further I get away from Houston (or any other major city) the more monochromatic things get.

I'd like to have a mature discussion about representation, but it'll be difficult when people disagree with the opening line and discussion title.
 
Dont want to be offensive. But would posters like this satisfied if there was a checklist of races of characters you needed to add to a game? Because if so....I would think that would be very annoying for a game developer.

I dont really look at the races of charcters in game. Just play for the gameplay or story....

Doesn't need to be a checklist. The issue with diversity is that so many creators barely even try. There are games out there that satisfy the diverse cast critique and there are those that don't even attempt it even though the opportunity exists. No one goes to gaming to get the exact same thing out of it. So if you're satisfied not having the discussion, you don't need to.
 
No game is 100% pure untouched artistic representation. The "artist vision" is changed by the parameters and limitations of the project, it can be changed by producers or marketers. If every game is 100% the artist vision then we still have the opportunity to critique that all the time in regards to graphics, music, sound, style, setting, characters, distribution choices etc. Yet somehow on a board built on game critique, this particular topic is the one to spear the sacred artist's vision?

It's an argument used quite a bit specifically when gender or racial representation is brought up.
 

Sylas

Member
Dont want to be offensive. But would posters like this satisfied if there was a checklist of races of characters you needed to add to a game? Because if so....I would think that would be very annoying for a game developer.

I dont really look at the races of charcters in game. Just play for the gameplay or story....

You're lucky that you don't care about those things, and saying you don't want to be offensive doesn't absolve you of saying something a little offensive (but hey, offense is kinda whatever).

It's not about a checklist, it's about wondering why someone doesn't feel the need to include more characters that look black, or asian, or indian.

Oftentimes the answer is literally, "I didn't even think about it!" And our response is, "That's fine! But maybe you can think about it in the future." Art needs to be challenged and critiqued for an artist to get better.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
Yeah, I don't think it's so much of a checklist, and bringing up real life statistics is rather pointless when the game has, as pointed out,
a wizard, a troglodyte in a sewer, a dwarf possibly from outer space, A GHOST THAT SELLS YOU WEDDING PROPOSALS, and a casino in a nearby desert housed by an eccentric woman.

Gonna quote this post again for this page

I think that's fallacious; the point is not to represent every culture (because yes, there are a ridiculous amount of minutae if you go down that path); the point is for the representation that does exist feels like it goes beyond the bounds of what the game represents; there may be no Hispanics in the game, but there's enough diversity elsewhere that the player feels that if they could just travel to the next village they'll probably encounter one at some point.

That's pretty much what I feel, really. If not with Stardew Valley just because there's only so much one person can do, that's a noble benchmark for the larger picture.
 
How do you know what's in my mind?

If you don't want me to discuss things just say so :3

He's saying yin feels that way. No one can know what you're thinking, but you can sound and act a certain way (e.g. like a racist), and people will react accordingly.

What's your point? I was addressing the whole 'every ethnicity should be represented' discussion.

p.s. As I stated, I'm Chinese Malaysian, I went to college in Boston, specifically Berklee where people of all cultures and arguably the cream of the crop in terms of musicianship gather. I've made close friends with people from 5 continents. I still really don't understand what you're trying to get at.

ConcernedApe has been really clear on his intention that future work on Stardew Valley remain a solo affair. Considering how much time he's poured and is pouring into this, I'm not too sure for this specific instance. I brought up modding once in this thread and we all know how that went. :V

Outside of that, I feel like it's something that we as an industry can start placing more value in. I feel people who travel simply make for more interesting writers because they're exposed to many more things. Let them tell more stories.

My point is, you can't really ask someone who's e.g. not from the middle east, to write about life in the middle east. He's simply not going to do as good a job as someone who's been there and absorbed some culture.

It's not even something that's strictly divided up by geographic borders.

Someone who has never been involved in corporate culture isn't going to be able to write a compelling white-collar thriller.

Someone who's marginally familiar with computers is not going to write a compelling CSI episode dealing with cyber crime. (Ahahah)

This sounds like advocating copping out and never attempting anything outside of one's background, in video games no less, a medium where we have games about killing gods and playing as cyborg ninjas. For this game, the necessary research to have more people of an already existing skin color doesn't seem extensive.

It's also common to see the argument of "it's too much work," for adding diversity despite nothing else proposed for a game garnering that criticism. To have really complete and extensive representation of a given culture would be a lot of work, but it doesn't have to always be that complete/extensive — it doesn't sound like the game relies on characters having certain skin colors or nationalities too much, and it doesn't seem like it would be too incongruous to have some of them be something or her than white, especially since it's a fictional setting. Even if it were "historically accurate," there's always leeway for diversity.
 
It's an argument used quite a bit specifically when gender or racial representation is brought up.

What I usually hear when I ask that question in these topics is that "Critiquing diversity is different because it's a moral judgement of the developer" when no one is really seeking a moral flagellation of the game creator. I don't think the Stardew Valley creator is a racist simply because he didn't add more diversity. If I really thought that way then as a black person, 95% of what I consume, I'd call racist when that's not even close to the truth. This isn't a moral crusade to separate the progressive game creators from the backwards ones. Like Sylas mentioned above, just a simple "I didn't think about it" is not offensive. The goal is to get more people thinking about it. Same way we hope future developers will refine gameplay mechanics or story by critiquing it.
 

Figboy79

Aftershock LA
There was also a point in gaming where the vast majority of gaming protagonists and supporting cast were male.

Thanks to the efforts of people like Anita Sarkisian, game developers and designers were made aware of how women were being portrayed in gaming, and many of them have begun to think very seriously about those things when including women in their games. Many developers weren't looking to malign women intentionally, but they're just as much a product of their cultural surroundings as anyone else, and many of them just never considered that they were doing something out of the ordinary, and alienating a large group of women gamers and industry workers.

Now look at the gaming landscape. I was surprised, in a good way, when I was walking along the show floor at E3 last year, and saw how many games not only had female leads, but had female supporting casts that weren't just there to be masturbatory aids for teenage boys. It was refreshing.

I don't see why minority representation should be looked at any different. Whether black or Latino, or Asian, or any other ethnicity that lacks representation. Creators from all over the world have created fiction that features all manor of diversity, so I don't buy into the argument that you have to be that race in order to create fiction about that race.

I'm a black guy. I'm also an artist and a writer. My current comic book on comixology and kindle features a cast of both males and females, black, white, Asian, Mexican, etc. it all started by sitting back and thinking: does this character need to be male? Does this character need to be white? It's basically a call to introspection on your part. Here in America, the default is almost always white male.

If I say, "lawyer," "doctor," "police officer," "Mayor," "politician," "astronaut," "writer," "programmer," "farmer," the first thing that pops into many American's minds is a white male. When I was a young artist, and I'd be creating characters for my comics, they were almost exclusively white males and sexy females. You'd think that as a black guy, I'd be creating black characters out my ass, but I wasn't, and that's because of what I mentioned before; as a culture, Americans have been conditioned to see that default white male as the lead in every narrative. I just never thought about it. What I saw on TV and in my comic books and cartoons were almost always badass white guys saving the day and being heroic, so when I'd sit down and create my superhero or what have you, they'd automatically be a white male.

It wasn't until I got much, much older, and started having conversations with my wife and other people, of all ethnicities, that I began to approach the creation of my characters with a broader brush, and I think it makes my work better. Not to mention that being able to draw different ethnicities, heights, weights, body types, and facial features has been great for my growth as an artist.

The OP isn't condemning the creator of the game, he's just calling to attention a potential oversight on the developer's part. Something that he/she may not have been aware of when designing his cast of characters. It's good to bring these things to the forefront of conversations. Talking about gender and racial issues always seem to put people on the defensive, which is really sad. The OP isn't crying racism, or calling for a boycott of the game. They're just sharing with us something that jumped out at them regarding the game. NeoGAF has a large population of people from all over the world, many of them developers and industry types. Maybe he thought bringing this up in a GAF thread would jumpstart conversation in the industry. There are worse forums you could start a thread like this on, where it wouldn't potentially pass under the nose of actual industry professionals.

Thanks for sharing this, OP, and hopefully you also tweeted or emailed the developer as well.
 

Famassu

Member
The game already caters for same sex relationships. Your suggestion would still leave minorities that would feel left out/offended. "A few more <whatever>" is a very vague solution and I doubt it would appease everyone. It would be a step in the right direction, I guess.
I wasn't talking about Stardew Valley exclusively, more in general. If you have a game with 50-60 characters and only have 2 black characters and no other minorities, then there's nothing wrong with people pointing out the lack of variety and to perhaps hope that the developer notices his "white bias" & is more inclusive in the next game. My point was mostly that while it IS impossible to represent every group of people (minority or not) because there are just too many of them, people who create fictional content like games should try to be more inclusive and include more noticeable amounts of diversity. Having a cast of 50-60 people set in some fictional story with ~40-45 white, straight characters & ~15-20 characters that are a combination from a few different non-white/-straight groups isn't some impossible task to ask nor would it make some games like Stardew Valley less realistic. You can't put every minority in those, but you can still include a decent amount of diversity. That's what I meant with having a few people from a few different minorities each. Speaking of Stardew Valley, the dev could easily have included a couple more black characters + had representation from groups like Native Americans, Mexican & Chinese. Sure, it wouldn't have Indians, muslims, transsexuals or any of the other million minorities/non-white groups, but it'd still feel a little less white, which is better than only 2 black characters and almost 50 white ones..

And even with games that only have a small number of characters (like, 5-6 protagonists, maybe in some Castlevania-like thing where you mostly confront monsters, for example), I'd rather see that small cast have as diverse cast of people as possible (so let's say an Indian woman, a black man, a chinese boy, a gay woman and an old Mexican person) rather than them being 4-5 white 20-30 something year old straight men & one white 18-22 year old woman, like it too often is. Of course setting does matter some (maybe I wouldn't put an Indian woman fighting alongside American soldiers in a WWII FPS), but in cases where you can be as creative as possible & don't have any limitations as far as character backgrounds go, I don't see the harm in pushing devs to offer something beyond white.

With how much race & gender inequalities have been in the news for decades & increasingly even in more recent times, no one can really claim they have never heard of these issues, especially people who are as well educated & connected with the modern world as to develop & release games (so you can assume they aren't some hermits who live away from all of society).
 

Falk

that puzzling face
This sounds like advocating copping out and never attempting anything outside of one's background, in video games no less, a medium where we have games about killing gods and playing as cyborg ninjas. For this game, the necessary research to have more people of an already existing skin color doesn't seem extensive.

It's also common to see the argument of "it's too much work," for adding diversity despite nothing else proposed for a game garnering that criticism. To have really complete and extensive representation of a given culture would be a lot of work, but it doesn't have to always be that complete/extensive &#8212; it doesn't sound like the game relies on characters having certain skin colors or nationalities too much, and it doesn't seem like it would be too incongruous to have some of them be something or her than white, especially since it's a fictional setting. Even if it were "historically accurate," there's always leeway for diversity.

I'm not saying not to try. I'm saying there's a danger of misrepresentation, and that sometimes the result of having a bare minimum of information is worse than avoiding the topic altogether. I'm saying that in our current social climate, it's actually very easy to be offensive without having that intention. I agree all this can be mitigated with research, and... well... being aware of current social issues (and not being a dick in general) but sometimes, shit just happens anyway.

Check your PMs in a bit.
 

LPride

Banned
Art needs to be challenged and critiqued for an artist to get better.

On this forum, Ill believe it when I see it. It seems like this argument only holds water with small projects that people are not emotionally invested in. Gaffers are probably worse than the gaming community at large when it comes to Loving The Product and getting swayed by massive marketing budgets.
 
Though discussing real world demographics in this thread is kind of pointless, the most surprising takeaway for me is that people didn't realize their are minorities in the rural United States. I mean African Americans were brought to the country as slaves to do agricultural work. That's why the southern US and the bible belt has the highest concentration of us. I mean I know a ton went to cities during the great migration but a huge amount never actually left. If you're thinking Mid-west I guess it's a bit more likely, but agricultural areas in in the south are full of Black People and Latinos and even outnumber white people in some places.
 

jblank83

Member
I think that's fallacious; the point is not to represent every culture (because yes, there are a ridiculous amount of minutae if you go down that path); the point is for the representation that does exist feels like it goes beyond the bounds of what the game represents; there may be no Hispanics in the game, but there's enough diversity elsewhere that the player feels that if they could just travel to the next village they'll probably encounter one at some point.

If the game had a couple of Hispanics and a couple Asians but no black people, I'm certain some wouldn't be content to think "Oh, well, it certainly feels diverse here. I can imagine all sorts of black people just around the corner!"

I'm not defending or criticizing Stardew Valley. I think the two African characters included are well thought out. The game has a variety of other interesting characters, including a blue-skinned person. Yet those two characters represent 5% of the cast, which, depending on your geolocation, can range from perfectly representative to not at all.

But the question is always interesting, i.e. "When is there enough diversity?"
 
EdibleKnife. said:
I don't think the Stardew Valley creator is a racist simply because he didn't add more diversity.

But did anyone really suggest that he was? It seems that people are so afraid of being accused of racism that they forget the topic is about the chance to promote diversity, not the intent of the creator.
 
What I usually hear when I ask that question in these topics is that "Critiquing diversity is different because it's a moral judgement of the developer" when no one is really seeking a moral flagellation of the game creator. I don't think the Stardew Valley creator is a racist simply because he didn't add more diversity. If I really thought that way then as a black person, 95% of what I consume, I'd call racist when that's not even close to the truth. This isn't a moral crusade to separate the progressive game creators from the backwards ones. Like Sylas mentioned above, just a simple "I didn't think about it" is not offensive. The goal is to get more people thinking about it. Same way we hope future developers will refine gameplay mechanics or story by critiquing it.

Pretty much how I feel. I don't see anyone as a big racist dev. I think most of the time, it simply isn't even thought of. This is exactly why discussions like this exist. It's why I hate seeing people trying to stifle the discussion with nonsense anecdotes about their exact location. If we were talking about a game based out of a specific locale such as Japan, then maybe.
 
But did anyone really suggest that he was? It seems that people are so afraid of being accused of racism that they forget the topic is about the chance to promote diversity, not the intent of the creator.

That's kind of one of the major issues. If you bring up gender, sexual orientation or race in terms of diversifying, people immediately jump to the assumption that you're accusing a game or creator of being bigoted simply by the suggestion that the amount of diversity wasn't satisfactory. If people stopped coming into these topics with the mentality that these discussions are any sort of moral judgement of the creators or the people that enjoy the game, we could have a more honest and sympathetic discourse.
 
I'm not saying not to try. I'm saying there's a danger of misrepresentation, and that sometimes the result of having a bare minimum of information is worse than avoiding the topic altogether.

Check your PMs in a bit.

It may be less risky and easier to ignore the problem entirely rather than make an attempt to address it, but it certainly isn't better. You're not saying "don't try, full stop," but "Advocating for not trying," seems an appropriate way to describe this.
 

Sylas

Member
On this forum, Ill believe it when I see it. It seems like this argument only holds water with small projects that people are not emotionally invested in. Gaffers are probably worse than the gaming community at large when it comes to Loving The Product and getting swayed by massive marketing budgets.

GAF is large. I don't think it's fair to throw the entire community under the bus. The larger problem is that a lot of people grew up using videogames as their primary form of escape--and during your formative years it's very easy to let your likes and hobbies become your identity. It's why you have people that proudly call themselves Gamers and nothing else.

That's not what this thread is about, though.

I still firmly believe that the people asking for representation aren't crying out for cultural representation (all the time), but rather someone they can simply visually identify with. That's easy to do. That shouldn't be difficult, and for many creators it isn't difficult. It's the fans that make it into something it isn't. It's rarely "attacking someone's creative vision" to want someone to have brown skin and different hairstyles available to them. I don't know many creators that say, "It's very important that this character looks white." It's just the default mindset for a lot of creators, and it's not inherently bad, but it does need to be challenged.
 

injurai

Banned
Though discussing real world demographics in this thread is kind of pointless, the most surprising takeaway for me is that people didn't realize their are minorities in the rural United States. I mean African Americans were brought to the country as slaves to do agricultural work. That's why the southern US and the bible belt has the highest concentration of us. I mean I know a ton went to cities during the great migration but a huge amount never actually left. If you're thinking Mid-west I guess it's a bit more likely, but agricultural areas in in the south are full of Black People and Latinos and even outnumber white people in some places.

The north of the country is still very white. If you're making a game to reflect neighborhood or county that you grew up in. Then these sorts of demographics can certainly come into play.

The US is big. Arguing that "well the demographics aren't like that everywhere" seems more pointless to me. The difference between a two counties in the US can be as drastic as the difference between countries.
 

Falk

that puzzling face
It may be less risky and easier to ignore the problem entirely rather than make an attempt to address it, but it certainly isn't better. You're not saying "don't try, full stop," but "Advocating for not trying," seems an appropriate way to describe this.

I'm honestly saying if it results in Japan in RA3, please don't try again.

That's a different barometer from putting in the effort into doing it well.
 

Sylas

Member
The north of the country is still very white. If you're making a game to reflect neighborhood or county that you grew up in. Then these sorts of demographics can certainly come into play.

The US is big. Arguing that "well the demographics aren't like that everywhere" seems more pointless to me. The difference between a two counties in the US can be as drastic as the difference between countries.

You're defending a viewpoint that may or may not even be accurate. You don't know if the creator of this game set out to represent his own hometown--or any town in particular. It's a strawman and disingenuous to use "real life demographics" as an argument because you're taking on the supposed intent of the creator and making it your own.

Also, would it really take people out of their immersive, fictional experiences if they saw a black person where they didn't think a black person should be? That's the takeaway from this.
 
Man, reading up on those mods that turn black characters white, really shows you how dumb some people are.

I don't see it as any worse than a mod that would turn all the characters in the game hispanic or black. Or furry, for that matter. It's a mod, the mod maker puts what they want to see in the game and nobody else has to take part in it if they don't want to.

Or maybe a better way to put it is, if there was a mod that made all the characters black I would certainly see that as acceptable and pretty cool, and if I see that as cool then I would necessarily have to see the alternative as being fine as well.
 

bomblord1

Banned
You're defending a viewpoint that may or may not even be accurate. You don't know if the creator of this game set out to represent his own hometown--or any town in particular. It's a strawman and disingenuous to use "real life demographics" as an argument because you're taking on the supposed intent of the creator and making it your own.

Also, would it really take people out of their immersive, fictional experiences if they saw a black person where they didn't think a black person should be? That's the takeaway from this.

The game was directly influenced by harvest moon and is more than made to represent the communities represented in those games.
 
The game was directly influenced by harvest moon and is more than made to represent the communities represented in those games.
But it isn't a HM game, and even if it were, there's nothing wrong with having more diversity in that setting unless seeng non-white looking characters is jarring for you.

Also find the notion that the gameplay of these games are reliant on there characters' skin colors to the point you couldn't have a more diverse cast without breaking the experience to be highly suspect.
 

Sylas

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The game was directly influenced by harvest moon and is more than made to represent the communities represented in those games.

So because Harvest Moon didn't have a lot of brown people, Stardew Valley shouldn't either? Plus, I was addressing the usage of "real life demographics." Not Harvest Moon.

Again, it has nothing to do with cultural representation. Just skin-color. Just seeing more people with brown skin doing things. You don't have to write them differently, you don't have to do anything except change the tone of their skin.
 
Thats funny because I think that Stardew valley is supposed to take inspiration from the real world and is supposed to be some small sleepy town where everyone knows everyone else. Yes places like that still exist where there aren't too many minorities.
If Stardew Valley is meant to reflect those upper class white suburbs, it'd be interesting if there was a plotline for a black family trying to move into the area and having to fight through racism on institutional levels. Documentaries on this struggle are fascinating.
 
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