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NX Controller Rumor [Up5: Original was fake, and thus this is too]

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Somnid

Member
HA, That Internal Handbook is awful.
Every internal document I've used was pdf or if it was in word all the stuff on the TOC would be hotlinked so you can get to the page better. This looks like someone got a typewriter out and made this over a couple hours.

I could see this being real for the sole reason that a Japanese company would absolutely print out a manual and fax/mail it especially to deter digital leakage.
 

MrBigBoy

Member
1458854315-nx-controler-2.jpg
I don't know why but when I saw your nails I had to laugh...
 

loqvst1st

Neo Member
This isn't true at all, stencil buffers have been around for decades. They're very relevant at the moment as well, given their usefulness for VR. Take a look at this Valve VR presentation from last year (pdf link, see slides 51-59).

Interesting. Looks like a mix of pre- and post-processing techniques to avoid rendering unwanted pixels to the VR screens. The mesh avoids 3D rendering of hidden objects and applies lens correction, the masking avoids pixel rendering.

I would hope that Nintendo would aim at having third party support this time around. Adding these little things (the mesh treatment for the rounded screen, the different control layout, the UI planning for touch controls on a round screen, the different dimension rate, different media - remember GC's mini DVD? - etc) are what moves devs away from releasing multi-platform games for Nintendo consoles lately. That or lack of processing power (as in Wii's case).
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Agree, but they were able to cut the price significantly, which tells me they could have just launched at a lower price.

Nintendo almost always sells hardware at a healthy margin. They don't sell at a loss or cost. Even after the price cut I think they were still making a good few bucks off the 3DS.
 

Azelover

Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
I wouldn't be surprised at all. Ever since Wii
One might argue it started with the DS, but whatever.
, Nintendo's been chasing that ephemeral "cool" factor at the expense of ergonomics, playability, and horsepower.

3DS' glasses-free display was unprecedented at the time, but it cut the GPU at the knees and left the screen with a dreadful pixel density without actually presenting more than a handful of gameplay enhancements.

Wii U...was Wii U. Expensive, uncomfortable, underutilized, all in the name of striking that tablet cool factor. But utterly impractical, and the development community and gaming community's collective disinterest bore that out.

And now this. A sleek, fashion-forward gimmick not unlike 3D that will bring very little in the way of gameplay innovation.

Prepare to be flabbergasted.

Nintendo hasn't been "practical" for a very long time. Sony's the utilitarian workhorse now.

Are you the singer? Just curious.

I think for Nintendo it's all about creating something new. On the DS we had Nintendogs and Electroplankton, along with Brain Age and series of other games.

The Wii had games which could be controlled with motion, from racing games to tennis, and bowling. It made a really big change in how we played those games.

The Wii U is basically Nintendo trying to cater to everyone, it didn't work. Just look at the games they made for it, they're ALL "traditional" games. Basically the Wii U is them moving away from the true innovation and market expansion they were in the generation before. The Wii U was Nintendo, as the Blue Ocean book says, "earning the right to innovate".
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
That's exactly my point. Computers can only render images in rectangular or square shapes. These Moto360-or-whatever watches have a circular-shaped screen but the rendering is still performed where you can't see the corners. Their guidelines even specify a "safe margin" where you shouldn't place UI elements 'cause they'd be cropped by the screen's shape.
Come on now. Computers can render images in whatever shapes one'd like them. If you're referring to framebuffers, those normally are perceived to be rectangular, but that's not because they cannot be any other shape - they're just regions of memory, to what shapes those map is more a matter of convention that anything else. For instance, the stereoscopic framebuffer(s) of the 3ds map to disjoint sequences of vertical bars (the parallax barrier crate).
 
My tv remote is close to these dimensions (17cm/6cm), so I tried to take it like the "NX controller" and surprisingly it was more comfortable than I thought without the need of grips :

1458854316-nx-controler-1.jpg

1458854315-nx-controler-2.jpg


Hey, I remember that remote from the days I worked in an electronics store! I have even held it sideways for some reason, and it felt okay.
 

udivision

Member
My tv remote is close to these dimensions (17cm/6cm), so I tried to take it like the "NX controller" and surprisingly it was more comfortable than I thought without the need of grips :

1458854316-nx-controler-1.jpg

1458854315-nx-controler-2.jpg

Kinda looks like.... limited screen space? Or just the overall thing is too small compared to the size of your hands? Is the remote really similar in size?

EDIT: The remote is a bit smaller, hm...
 
Agree, but they were able to cut the price significantly, which tells me they could have just launched at a lower price.

The consequences of cutting the 3DS price:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nintendo-earnings-idUSTRE79Q1GC20111027

This year's failed launch of its 3DS handheld games machine forced Nintendo to slash prices, crushing its profit outlook for the year, while a dearth of attractive software and the yen's strength against the euro are causing further pain.

Nintendo expects an annual net loss of 20 billion yen, its first such loss in history and also slashed its full-year operating profit forecast to just 1 billion yen from 35 billion yen.

In the latest quarter, it tumbled to a 19.6 billion yen ($258 million) operating loss, a slightly bigger loss than the market had expected and much worse than the company had forecast. That compares with a 30.9 billion yen profit in the same period last year.

Nintendo chopped its forecast for sales of 3DS software by 30 percent to 50 million units for the year to March, but left its 3DS hardware forecast at 16 million units for the year, a target fund managers said might be hard to achieve.

[...]

The stock has tumbled by about 50 percent since April 1, compared with an 8.5 percent fall in the Nikkei average.
 

Thraktor

Member
Interesting. Looks like a mix of pre- and post-processing techniques to avoid rendering unwanted pixels to the VR screens. The mesh avoids 3D rendering of hidden objects and applies lens correction, the masking avoids pixel rendering.

Well, there's post-processing in the form of the warp applied to match the lenses used in the Vive, but that's not really relevant here. The stencil mask is used through the entire render process as a flag for the GPU, basically saying "don't render here" on a per-pixel basis.

The only limitation of current graphics APIs is that the full outer rectangular region exists in memory as a colour buffer and a depth buffer, even if it's empty and unused. You can actually write other data into this space on the colour buffer, and the GPU won't overwrite it during rendering, but it's a very discontiguous region of memory so would be pretty difficult to do anything useful with. You wouldn't be able to touch the depth buffer, though, as this includes the stencil mask. This isn't much of a problem with a single large memory pool (e.g. the PS4) because it's only a few MBs, but Nintendo usually have split memory pools, with a small, fast pool of memory attached to the GPU (e.g. the 32MB eDRAM on the Wii U). In this scenario every little bit of memory counts, so the current implementation would be a bit inefficient.

Nintendo get to define their own API and graphics drivers, though, so they should be able to lay out the framebuffer in memory quite a bit more efficiently if they need to (possibly giving devs two options, a dense option to make the best use of available memory, and a traditional option to make framebuffer addressing simpler).

I would hope that Nintendo would aim at having third party support this time around. Adding these little things (the mesh treatment for the rounded screen, the different control layout, the UI planning for touch controls on a round screen, the different dimension rate, different media - remember GC's mini DVD? - etc) are what moves devs away from releasing multi-platform games for Nintendo consoles lately. That or lack of processing power (as in Wii's case).

It's not really a huge deal when you're dealing with a custom API. It wouldn't be particularly difficult to make the oval screen masking effectively invisible to devs, and then it's really just a matter of adjusting the FOV until the screen is framed properly. They'd want to design custom "buttons" as well, but even then I'm sure Nintendo would include defaults if they really don't want to go to the effort.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I don't think he thinks Pocket is the marketing name. Just to identify the machines. But it still makes no sense.

No, the fake leaker actually said the machine was called the Nintendo Pocket and even referred to the logo looking like a P.
 
Why is everyone assuming this is primarily for off-tv play and therefore too small?

It seems to me that the screen on the controller is more for UI/inventory and custom touch buttons and shit like that.

C'mon people, this is a home console controller. The game is on the TV
 

ViciousDS

Banned
My tv remote is close to these dimensions (17cm/6cm), so I tried to take it like the "NX controller" and surprisingly it was more comfortable than I thought without the need of grips :

1458854316-nx-controler-1.jpg

1458854315-nx-controler-2.jpg


Part of your right hand would be touching the screen and setting off triggers, buttons or something. This is like the reverse of the Vita I needed a grip just to keep my fingers from tapping all over the damn thing and to hold it comfortably.

I think with a grip I wouldn't mind the design as much.... Just like the Vita became amazing with the grip I bought
 

Squire

Banned
Probably not true, but I'd be fine with it if it was.

I do like the idea of that screen snapping into peripherals for better holding. They could release GC and n64 shaped shells for it and manipulate the buttons on screen to emulate the feel of the original controller.

...and remind people how much better the real thing with actual buttons is, discrediting the device they're currently holding.
 

udivision

Member
What is a usp and a pod? Unique selling point?

POD I have no idea. Rosti?

POD = Point of Difference (Differentiation).

Why is everyone assuming this is primarily for off-tv play and therefore too small?

It seems to me that the screen on the controller is more for UI/inventory and custom touch buttons and shit like that.

C'mon people, this is a home console controller. The game is on the TV


If that is the case, then it makes less sense. The changes to the sticks, form factor, size etc... are all about increasing portability. If this is supposed to be the new, refined Wii U Gamepad, then they may have actually taken a few steps back. On paper, the form factor of the Wii U GamePad could be adapted to offer real buttons and quick access to custom buttons (essentially, make the sides of the Pad a bit thinner). If this new design makes several concessions for the sake of portability (like the sticks) but it is not supposed to be portable... then it makes no sense.
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
...and remind people how much better the real thing with actual buttons is, discrediting the device they're currently holding.

I want actual buttons. I'm on record saying that multiple times.
 

Squire

Banned
I want actual buttons. I'm on record saying that multiple times.

Right, I'm not arguing, that's just something that came to me.

I just don't know what the argument could be for this. It's an alternative, but it doesn't seem like a superior one and I think that's what plagued the gamepad. It was different compared to the competition, but it didn't really justify it. So I wonder is that Nintendos Achilles heel: To be so determined to be as unlike the competition as they can stand, it's a detriment to themselves.
 

dcx4610

Member
As much as I hate to admit it but the buttons vs no buttons argument feels like Blackberry vs Smart phones.

You had and still have people that love a keyboard on a Blackberry but most have moved on to touch screens. The Blackberry people are considered old fashioned and behind the times.

You have kids growing up now exclusively using phones, tablets and touch screens. Buttons aren't apart of their world.

I fear buttons on controllers may be the new Blackberry. If the NX has it where you can map and kind of button combination you desire along with haptic/tactical feedback, it could be a game changer and the most forward thinking Nintendo has done in years.
 

-Horizon-

Member
As much as I hate to admit it but the buttons vs no buttons argument feels like Blackberry vs Smart phones.

You had and still have people that love a keyboard on a Blackberry but most have moved on to touch screens. The Blackberry people are considered old fashioned and behind the times.

You have kids growing up now exclusively using phones, tablets and touch screens. Buttons aren't apart of their world.

I fear buttons on controllers may be the new Blackberry. If the NX has it where you can map and kind of button combination you desire along with haptic/tactical feedback, it could be a game changer and the most forward thinking Nintendo has done in years.

It could definitely be a game changer. I'm on a wait and see approach right now. Could be the best or worst thing ever.
 

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
My tv remote is close to these dimensions (17cm/6cm), so I tried to take it like the "NX controller" and surprisingly it was more comfortable than I thought without the need of grips :

1458854316-nx-controler-1.jpg

1458854315-nx-controler-2.jpg

Looks waaaaaaaay too small given there's a screen on this thing. Giant american hands and this if it's real and it's actual size is a disaster in the making. Not to mention how disgusting the screen will get.
 
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