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Kotaku: Sony is working on a PS4.5; briefing devs on plans for a more powerful PS4
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I did not say I did not understand, clearly I said I get that people needed that 'push', what I said is there are those who are being disingenuous as well. Not everyone saying, "I am going PC" is 'telling the truth'.
And I am going off what Zoitis has said, Sony's slide messages saying 'every PS4 is the same, keep building for it'... extra effects and performance, no more that big of a deal than 3rd party performing better on the PS4 compared to the Xbox One, or better on the PC compared to both. If your PS4 games still perform the same on the PS4, what is the issue of them performing better on the PS4K other than 'envy'?
War, war never changes.
Beerman462
Member
This is what I was looking for. I saw his leaks. I thought maybe someone contradicted him or something. Very interesting times.
Console Version Wars...
I just bought one this Christmas
So. I bought a new MacBook Pro knowing full well new ones were coming out a year later and costs significantly more than a Playstation 4. I'm not going to cry, get upset, bitch, moan, and have buyers remorse because the new one boots faster or opens Safari quicker or Xcode compiles a few seconds faster. Now if I was encoding videos in minutes versus hours than I'd be giddy to upgrade.
Your current PS4 is still going to play the same games. Maybe it won't play games at a constant 60 FPS, but it will play PS4 games from here until the next generation. Isn't that what you bought it for? Would you have waited another full year if you knew this ahead of time? It's not like going from a NES to a Super NES.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
This is how I am starting to see it now. If it fails, they will just go back to traditional releases. If the messaging is right, the ecosystem seamless as they want with compatibility (games as a service), then it will work, and not really effect you other than 'want' versus 'need'.
Vestal
Gold Member
The bolded is the problem. Particularly if we look at this from a competitive gaming aspect. Now if the bolded is a non issue in competitive games(locked FPS & resolution on both versions) then there is no problem.
We already talked about the bolded. I'm not seeing how development doesn't change. Developers will be making enhanced versions of every game.
duhmetree
Member
I misrepresented what I meant.. not changing the x86 architecture but changing from unified RAM to system RAM and VRAM
GamerMax73
Member
Surely that's a developer problem and not a problem with having two hardware variants?
Surely that's dev choice? They don't have to for every game, do they? And if they are 3rd party multi-plat already developing for PC how much extra work would their be really? If need be they can bring higher res assets over from the PC version, no? They already do rendering at multiple resolutions for PC, porting similar code to PS4 can't be that amazingly difficult for them, can it?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They do that now with the PC do they not? The consoles are now x86 based, which has made the ease between PC and console easier than it has ever been. They pick a target, and just scale accordingly, considering that most engines worth a salt are now designed to scale on a myriad of spec configurations.
The strangest thing to me is that people have this much disbelief for advancement in technology.
PS3 had Ridge Racer 7 in 1080P back in 2006 & it's 2016 & people don't think that a console could support 4K with newer tech?
if they make the console for 4K it's going to be able to archive it.
Funny thing is I got Jr'ed for making threads about 4k gaming in 2012 because I believed that 4K gaming was coming in this generation of consoles & now here we are with a 4K PS4 in the works.
PS3 had Ridge Racer 7 in 1080P back in 2006 & it's 2016 & people don't think that a console could support 4K with newer tech?
if they make the console for 4K it's going to be able to archive it.
Funny thing is I got Jr'ed for making threads about 4k gaming in 2012 because I believed that 4K gaming was coming in this generation of consoles & now here we are with a 4K PS4 in the works.
GamerMax73
Member
Same thing, it'll break the memory map and kill backwards compatibility.
Vestal
Gold Member
Sure leave it up to the Devs to make the right choice..... Its worked so well with multi plat games in the past right???
rokkerkory
Member
damnit, now i need this and a 4k tv
Yeah I went ahead and pre-ordered on amazon.
Atleast we can watch the blu-ray copy until Sony drops this new sku.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Zoetis reckons E3 reveal. Cash ready for preorder. Give my ps4 to a charity.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They won't. You will still get your PS4 games, just as one still got their PS3 games when the PS4 hit. They will just be able to do 'a little more' if the rumors are true on the PS4K, and the same disc supposedly runs on both (which seems better than a reset).
Again, what is the issue?
The issue would be Sony and developers leaving behind the original PS4 customers performance and game-wise (ie PS4K exclusives)
i think the worry seems to be that developers will focus on ps4k power and the games will run worse on regular ps4. i hope sony and developers focus on getting the game to run great on regular ps4 and then add the extra effects and boosts on ps4k.
for example zelda hyrule warriors runs like shit on old 3ds but is playable on new 3ds
So you're still stuck in the 2013 mindset of pretending the power gap between the PS4 and Xbone is minor?
How sad.
Read the Eurogamer story. A console is not going to run AAA games in native 4K.
queequegs__coffin
Banned
Wow, this is some interesting stuff to get behind. I was a little averse to a ps4k, but I could be down with this.
Open question to anybody, and I realize it might be speculation. I'm not jumping into the 4k scene anytime soon, but would a ps4k play, say, the Bloodborne game I play now at a higher framerate (1080p@60fps vs. 1080p@30fps)?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They are not going to leave behind almost 40-50 million potential customers until well into the PS5. Sony has supported all their console systems longer than the competition, on average, 9-10 years. The messages up to GDC still have not changed, nor give any indication of doing so.
See link below.
I can see that worry, but that is something we will never know, and/or can be placebo if it does supposedly 'happen', due to the difference in spec.
For what it is worth: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=198629611&postcount=3048
Another early 1080p game was NBA Street Homecourt. It released in early 2007. I definitely think a "PS4.5" would have a few 4K games but not that many. Just a few smaller titles as others have brought up already.
________________________________
Yes, and I explained why I changed my position since I now see how this can work as long as there's full/complete compatibility instead of "Sega segmentation", add ons, and/or frequent new models (i.e.: new model every 2 years or less) -- so I don't really see what you are getting at.
If it was about my "XB1 preference" then I wouldn't have posted what I already did in this thread.
You admitted in your previous post that your reply (your first one to me in this thread) was tongue in cheek so I'm not sure as to why you're saying this to me.
mejin
Member
Even now we still see some games being released with poor optimization and there are no excuses to do so. Some developers will continue to do a lame job but some people will have an excuse now: "new ps4".
But I think this can be good news to japanese developers tbh.
They know they can continue to support ps4 for more years since (hopefully) Sony won't kill it soon.
AZ Greg
Member
I keep things in perspective. It's minor compared to where the real gap is, between PCs and consoles.
Crimson_Gold
Member
The idea of making everything forward compatible allows Japanese developers to have a dedicated customer base going forward. I think Sony is shifting to more of an ecosystem a la Apple and android. Having the PS4 as a base and the 4K as a premium experience for those that desire that. Everyone will be able to buy the same games and play together. Developers won't have to worry about starting all over again, well until the PS5, but who knows how that will work. It is exciting to see the possibilities going forward.
totally agree that now people will have an excuse to use when there are bad ports where developers are to blame but i guess Sony and MS are to blame as well as they could take a tougher stand when it comes to letting these games release in the state they are.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They have no history of this however in the home console front. All their console systems have been supported on average of 8-10 years or more. They like that software licensing money, and it is the most profitable aspect to them in gaming.
So be happy that history can be on your side.
GamerMax73
Member
I was going to say this...
We need to get out of the generational console mindset and into the platform mindset. Devs want to target as wide an audience as possible. Sony wants to use exclusives to lock people into the platform.
How about: The Last of Us 2?
Platform exclusive. You can only play it on Playstation. Not on Nintendo, Not on XBox, Not on PC. If you want to play future Naughty Dog games of the quality and style of Uncharted or The Last of Us then you are tied into the Playstation platform. Once you've started buying games on the Playstation platform you want to stay there, if you switch platforms your old games won't work on your new platform.
But, why make The Last of Us 2 a PS4.5 exclusive? What's the point in doing that. You now have 40m unhappy customers who can't play it and want to. Will they pay for an upgraded console, or vote with their feet and move to a rival platform? Is that a risk worth taking? Given a decent game engine can't the game be perfectly playable on both models and scaleable for better graphics on the PS4.5?
We need to get out of the generational console mindset and into the platform mindset. Devs want to target as wide an audience as possible. Sony wants to use exclusives to lock people into the platform.
How about: The Last of Us 2?
Platform exclusive. You can only play it on Playstation. Not on Nintendo, Not on XBox, Not on PC. If you want to play future Naughty Dog games of the quality and style of Uncharted or The Last of Us then you are tied into the Playstation platform. Once you've started buying games on the Playstation platform you want to stay there, if you switch platforms your old games won't work on your new platform.
But, why make The Last of Us 2 a PS4.5 exclusive? What's the point in doing that. You now have 40m unhappy customers who can't play it and want to. Will they pay for an upgraded console, or vote with their feet and move to a rival platform? Is that a risk worth taking? Given a decent game engine can't the game be perfectly playable on both models and scaleable for better graphics on the PS4.5?
What if the PS4K uses a 14/16nm FinFET SoC?
They could clock the Jaguar Cores to something like 2,5Ghz and add like 32 Compute Units(likely cut down to 30 for better yield)
That would be over 3,1 Tflop/s (compared to the 1,8 Tflop/s of the normal PS4).
70% more graphics power!
I mean it would be still to low for 4K high end gaming but some indiegames and more importantly VR games could run at 4K/30 or 1080p120 or whatever.
The games would be the same for the PS4 und PS4K but you would have better IQ/FPS on the PS4K.
They could clock the Jaguar Cores to something like 2,5Ghz and add like 32 Compute Units(likely cut down to 30 for better yield)
That would be over 3,1 Tflop/s (compared to the 1,8 Tflop/s of the normal PS4).
70% more graphics power!
I mean it would be still to low for 4K high end gaming but some indiegames and more importantly VR games could run at 4K/30 or 1080p120 or whatever.
The games would be the same for the PS4 und PS4K but you would have better IQ/FPS on the PS4K.
I don't have to read the Eurogamer story I have my own mind & I know that if AMD & Sony want a console to run games at 4K it will run games at 4K they know what's needed & what short cuts & tweaks to make for it to work.
day 1 if it is at least 50% faster than original PS4.... Cant wait!
Many people are showing their envy here, but what are PS3 users like versus PS4 users in games where PS4/PS3 cross play is possible?
https://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/2r690a/list_of_games_that_you_can_play_online_together/
GamerMax73
Member
Option #2 in the Eurogamer article and my personal favourite. Although they suggest additional gains may be had by moving to Steamroller or Excavator cores with Tahiti or Tonga GPU cores without effecting compatibility.
This is what I hope they are planning, makes the most sense to me at this stage. A good stepping stone to PS5 without seriously negatively effecting PS4.
I'd also expect a remodeled PS4 Slim with the existing APU shrunk using 14nm FinFET fabrication.
Coolade
Member
I have my doubts about 4k upscaling and native 4k for modern games can't happen for $400.
That being said, they must have something up their sleeve..
$349 - $399
Secret 4K sauce please
they dont make money on hardware (if you calculate R&D, marketing, etc, they lose money), so it is in their best interest for PS4 to keep playing "current" games for as long as possible. Technically, there is no reason to have exclusive games because PS4 is well thought of system with 8GB of RAM which would have been largest bottleneck in the future.
It is similar and yet different from PC where there is no reason for developers not support PC from 2012 (and they all do) yet with Playstation, there are only 2 variations and base one is well designed system.
I wonder if PS5 will also be compatible with PS4... it only makes sense and especially for Sony, thats in their best interest.
Futurematic
Member
8 Puma+ cores with their close similarity to Jaguar would make more sense I suspect. Clocked at 2 GHz (with say 30-36 CUs at 1 GHz) and you have a similar system for ease of cross-development. Perhaps expanding to 64 ROPs to help render 4K indie games
Potentially good strategy to pick up high end console customers and their larger spend on games. That's where the extra development dollars (largely cross-spent with PC anyway) could be made back for third parties. Sony first party offering patches for all their old games would be a nice way to get early momentum for PS4K (hire Bluepoint to do them all?
)pixellated_man
Member
Some people are getting too ahead of themselves. I mean with all the iterative talk, as if has already been confirmed by Sony they are going that route.
Even if it turns out that is the business model they have in mind going forward, what if the ps4.5 doesn't work out for them? What's stopping them from ditching this idea and going back to traditional console cycles?
I am personally going to view the ps4.5 as a one off mid gen refresh where it makes sense for Sony to make an appealing product that pushes more 4k TV, 4k blu ray adoption. Unless Sony come out and say otherwise of course.
Not against the idea BTW, just saying people talking iterative console future like it's a foregone conclusion, lol.
Even if it turns out that is the business model they have in mind going forward, what if the ps4.5 doesn't work out for them? What's stopping them from ditching this idea and going back to traditional console cycles?
I am personally going to view the ps4.5 as a one off mid gen refresh where it makes sense for Sony to make an appealing product that pushes more 4k TV, 4k blu ray adoption. Unless Sony come out and say otherwise of course.
Not against the idea BTW, just saying people talking iterative console future like it's a foregone conclusion, lol.
GamerMax73
Member
I really can't see the point of releasing an upspec'd PS4 now, mid-generation, if the PS5 isn't going to be fully cross compatible and based on an evolution of the same architecture. The only question is how long do you support PS4 for under that scenario? The console could be a good 9-10 years old by then and may start holding back game development as technology moves on. But there's no reason why PS4.5 can't be supported well into PS5's life span under such a scenario, being a newer more powerful console than PS4.
This is what I've been pretty vocal here about saying that's what I'm hoping to see. Time will tell...
MS' talk is probably what has convinced people. I'm not opposed to iterations as long as they're 3-4 years apart.
I do think this is going to be a bit of an experiment for Sony though. The aligning of mass market 4k pricing and die shrinks make this particular product a particularly clever experiment.
what about 49%?