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[FluxWaveZ]

I wouldn't lynch him right now, no, but he looks like the closest to a threat from where I'm sitting. :/

Good, done.

 

[Sorian]

Wow, so the one game that I was scum I actually held value in my life, and the others where I was Town (Woof 1, Heist, Love Boat) I didn't care if I died because I didn't care if I died. It's an open-and-shut case! This totally points to me being scum in Batman, you figured it out detective.

You seemed to care about your life a lot more yesterday until we were in final minutes and the other lynch leader had just claimed PR. And now today, you are on suicide watch. The difference in attitude is quite apparent.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

You seemed to care about your life a lot more yesterday until we were in final minutes and the other lynch leader had just claimed PR. And now today, you are on suicide watch. The difference in attitude is quite apparent.

Oh yeah? Point to me "caring about my life" last Day phase. I'll wait.

And I'm on suicide watch today and not last Day phase? Are you having temporary amnesia or do you really want me to create a quote umbrella of comments I made on Day 1?

Man, and to think someone who clinged so dearly to life would just lay down and let it happen—and even vote for themselves at the last minute—and not create a desperation claim for one last potential save. Oh, and to think they wouldn't argue at all for people to not lynch them because they really didn't care and were just amusingly shrugging at the whole scenario.

The reality of the situation escapes you; remove the veils from your eyes.

 

[weemadarthur]

Veterans are also invitational:

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Paranoid_Gun_Owner

I think a veteran mayor would be ridiculous but hey, something to consider. I wouldn't have hit Camjo as scum and not even because of the invitation but because he is probably useless now.

Ok.

I guess I should go write a role madness game where everyone is infinitely recruitable back and forth.

 

[Sorian]

Your version of scum hunting is looking into nothingness with a magnifying glass for long enough to convince yourself that something is there, then trying to form a narrative around that imaginary speck. If you are chasing after people who are simply responding and not "injecting themselves into the discussion," do you want me to go the route of pointing out all the other players who are doing the same, and asking why I'm the one being singled out?

And if your claim that pursuing an active player rather than an inactive one holds the same meaning as lynching them, then it is fallacious. Active players are not more likely to be scum than ones who post less. In fact, I would argue that the ones who post less ARE more likely to be scum. I argue that it is best to focus on the ones flying under the radar first, because they are the ones who will have less to scrutinize when we have more information on coming days. If your focus is on the active players and the ones with the spotlight first, you'll be navigating in darkness with not much to go on when they're all gone.

There are no grand theories to make; it is Day 1. I'm not into baseless conjecture like you seem to be. I'll take a careful approach with anything, because jumping to conclusions benefits no one. I've posted my thoughts as clearly as possible, and they are 100% my thoughts. I'm not going to write paragraphs of meaningless speculation to appear more town. I'm not going to write elaborate what-if stories to appear more town (on D1). The way things are now, that's all just useless until we actually have something concrete to go on (someone flips, someone claims + report, etc.), and we have nothing of the sort yet because it's D1. I would reserve the "deep analysis" for when it is actually warranted, because the best approach right now is actually a surface-level analysis.

Besides, I've explained my vote against Pop-O-Matic, and no one else currently has a vote on them. Yet I'm somehow not taking an individualistic approach to my reasoning? Instead of endlessly conversing about the high profile cases of D1 while scum sit back and laugh, I'd rather divert attention to the ones not getting attention.

Your pressure had absolutely no effect on my desire to take a hard stance on who I would vote on during this Day phase. Obviously, I would have to vote, so it was always the plan that I would take what we've been given so far and make a decision based on it. I'm not one to leave this until the literal final minutes of a phase.

I disagree that lynching the more silent players will leave us with less information to go on than lynching the louder players. If anything, it's an equivalent amount of data we would get in both situations. Louder players will always have more to analyse, but if they are gone first and they flip Town? We don't get more than if a silent player is gone and they flip Town, yet the louder player still lives. And it's not like silent players have said literally nothing. They've given us some information on their stances, which is enough to look deeply into as you like to do so much regardless of their flip, in addition to how other players responded to that lynched player.

Your choices are only the high profile cases, which is typical and erroneous (obviously to me, since you are pursing me). I am fundamentally against this philosophy, because it's the high profile ones who tend to flip Town. I'm not going to do that, and I'm not necessarily aiming for low activity posters, either. But I will go after the ones who aren't getting the most attention; the fact that you are constantly pursuing the high profile cases is actually suspicious to me.

Indeed. So? Again, it's D1. I'm not some detective relentlessly chasing after people for stupid crap. I looked at this day as a whole as it was winding down, and that's the conclusion I came to. There is literally nothing to extract from the fact that I haven't been on Pop's tail today and have decided to place my vote on him. If anything, maybe it's just my playstyle, but I'll either place my vote real early on someone I believe to be scum, or place my vote once things have settled down and before the last minute chaos starts.

And what I'm saying by high profile cases are Mazre (who role claimed, naturally making him one) and FluxWaveZ (who became one because of your prodding and the reasoning following Ty4on's vote) as your main D1 targets, along with a bunch of the Karkador posts earlier.

I wouldn't pat myself on the back for going after a player who is present more than going after a player who isn't, especially when I'm inventing reasons out of nowhere to point fingers to support my faulty reasoning as you are doing.

As a small sampling, these are all well-reasoned posts, this is someone trying to defend themselves and doing it fairly well. As you started picking up votes, that started going downhill a bit but you didn't actually get what I would call suicidal until the last few moments of the day, shortly after Kark pushed you ahead in votes I believe.

 

[Camjo-Z]

I wouldn't lynch him right now, no, but he looks like the closest to a threat from where I'm sitting. :/

I think that Camjo-Z is in fact a neutral. Once he's targeted, he's going to flip to neutral and his win condition will change to "kill the Joker", along it gaining the ability to perform night kills.

I'm struggling to see how I'm a threat. If your theory is correct, then mafia wastes a nightkill on me instead of another townie, and I become a town-siding Serial Killer. Where does town lose in this scenario? Or maybe this is just some scum damage control, gotta get that lynch going when you know you can't take me out at night!

a whole bunch of dumb shit

suddenly i'm starting to regret my decisions up to this point

 

[Sorian]

I'm struggling to see how I'm a threat. If your theory is correct, then mafia wastes a nightkill on me instead of another townie, and I become a town-siding Serial Killer. Where does town lose in this scenario? Or maybe this is just some scum damage control, gotta get that lynch going when you know you can't take me out at night!

Let's be real for a moment and take Launch's theory at face value. Just because your goal is to kill a specific player that is probably scum aligned does not make you town-siding. You would still be a killer adding to the body count in a small-medium game. Even a vigilante in this set-up could be anti-town pretty easily.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

I'm struggling to see how I'm a threat. If your theory is correct, then mafia wastes a nightkill on me instead of another townie, and I become a town-siding Serial Killer. Where does town lose in this scenario? Or maybe this is just some scum damage control, gotta get that lynch going when you know you can't take me out at night!

Leaving a neutral alive has never hurt anyone but town.

 

[Sorian]

Leaving a neutral alive has never hurt anyone but town.

False, go read Night Vale, I know you were gone for awhile. I proved the utility of neutrals quite handily.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

False, go read Night Vale, I know you were gone for awhile. I proved the utility of neutrals quite handily.

I was going to tell anyone that dug up the "one case" to fuck off.

I'm still salty about NX.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

As a small sampling, these are all well-reasoned posts, this is someone trying to defend themselves and doing it fairly well. As you started picking up votes, that started going downhill a bit but you didn't actually get what I would call suicidal until the last few moments of the day, shortly after Kark pushed you ahead in votes I believe.

Hey... guess what:



Trying to contribute/playing the game != OH GOD I CAN'T DIE (literal quote by El Topo, btw)

I'm not suicidal, even know. I don't want to die. But I don't care if I die. Like anyone else, I'm trying to fulfill the glorious win condition. Saying to everyone "Hey, everyone vote for me!" won't do shit and definitely won't help me win. So, obviously, I tried to play the game... and doing it at a better pace in a game I thought wouldn't be riddled with crazy shit like every other game I've participated in.

Obviously, that didn't work out because everyone got on my ass, for whatever reason, for playing that way. So here we are, on D2.

Welcome.

 

[Sorian]

I was going to tell anyone that dug up the "one case" to fuck off.

I'm still salty about NX.

I rode on the SK's shoulder's while he killed two scum for me. I can go fuck off all day but neutrals can make or break games for either team. It is what it is and the blanket attitude of "fuck all scum" just means you are closing your eyes to viable options.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

suddenly i'm starting to regret my decisions up to this point

Elaborate.

 

[Sorian]

Hey... guess what:



Trying to contribute/playing the game != OH GOD I CAN'T DIE (literal quote by El Topo, btw)

I'm not suicidal, even know. I don't want to die. But I don't care if I die. Like anyone else, I'm trying to fulfill the glorious win condition. Saying to everyone "Hey, everyone vote for me!" won't do shit and definitely won't help me win. So, obviously, I tried to play the game... and doing it at a better pace in a game I thought wouldn't be riddled with crazy shit like every other game I've participated in.

Obviously, that didn't work out because everyone got on my ass, for whatever reason, for playing that way. So here we are, on D2.

Welcome.

You strawman all day, you know that? Do you remember why I brought the fight to your door yesterday? It wasn't because of metagaming reasons like you would keep having people believe. It was because you were playing defensive and reactionary. Only engaging people when they spoke to you and you had to run a little damage control for yourself. Those posts I quoted were AFTER I had already started pressing you hard. You weren't trying to contribute/play the game much at all until that point. You had the thread open looking for mentions of your name and that's it.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

I rode on the SK's shoulder's while he killed two scum for me. I can go fuck off all day but neutrals can make or break games for either team. It is what it is and the blanket attitude of "fuck all scum" just means you are closing your eyes to viable options.

Ok, Sorian. Let me amend my statement.

Blindly leaving a neutral alive can have consequences.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

You strawman all day, you know that? Do you remember why I brought the fight to your door yesterday? It wasn't because of metagaming reasons like you would keep having people believe. It was because you were playing defensive and reactionary. Only engaging people when they spoke to you and you had to run a little damage control for yourself. Those posts I quoted were AFTER I had already started pressing you hard. You weren't trying to contribute/play the game much at all until that point. You had the thread open looking for mentions of your name and that's it.

Yep, that's all true. And also doesn't contradict what I said.

But just looking for mentions of my name is false: I was looking at this thread very closely in general.

 

[weemadarthur]

suddenly i'm starting to regret my decisions up to this point

So, you used the override to protect Fluxwave and not Topo?

Can you detail out why you read him as town so strongly?

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

 

[Sorian]

Ok, Sorian. Let me amend my statement.

Blindly leaving a neutral alive can have consequences.

Better and worth keeping in mind going forward if your theory is actually right.

Yep, that's all true. And also doesn't contradict what I said.

And my point still stands. You played defensively yesterday, all you've done today is claim that you are villain aligned.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

And my point still stands. You played defensively yesterday, all you've done today is claim that you are villain aligned.

Oh.

Alright, gotcha. Peace.

 

[Xamtheking]

Flux, why should we believe you?

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Oh.

Alright, gotcha. Peace.

I don't think you want to be lynched; that's too transparent for someone claiming they're a villain. What's your goal?

 

[Camjo-Z]

Let's be real for a moment and take Launch's theory at face value. Just because your goal is to kill a specific player that is probably scum aligned does not make you town-siding. You would still be a killer adding to the body count in a small-medium game. Even a vigilante in this set-up could be anti-town pretty easily.

Well, this is true. Still, it doesn't help town right now to be trying to kill a possible future neutral when there are actual mafia still about, so we might as well put it on the backburner for now.

So, you used the override to protect Fluxwave and not Topo?

Can you detail out why you read him as town so strongly?

I wasn't quite convinced Topo was town after his claim, but I didn't want to kill him in case he really was an important PR. As for Flux, the total lack of any push to save him + him having the same "woe is me, end my life, where's the turbo button" demeanor he had in Love Boat gave me the sense that he was town. But apparently now he's trying to convince everyone that he's mafia whose power activates when lynched, so... yeah.

 

[Trigger]

RIP Selina

I was a bit concerned about Camjo's override, but I'm willing to buy his explanation. I'm also #TeamNeutralSK. I think night killing him will just activate a killing power.

 

[Karkador]

So why'd you do Flame like that

 

[Camjo-Z]

So why'd you do Flame like that

ask the batcomputer

 

[Coppanuva]

RIP Selina

I was a bit concerned about Camjo's override, but I'm willing to buy his explanation. I'm also #TeamNeutralSK. I think night killing him will just activate a killing power.

Why are you bringing up NKing him as an option?

 

[Sorian]

Well, this is true. Still, it doesn't help town right now to be trying to kill a possible future neutral when there are actual mafia still about, so we might as well put it on the backburner for now.

I agree with this 100%

 

[Trigger]

Why are you bringing up NKing him as an option?

Jason Todd's stint as a the Red Hood was started by the Joker nearly killing him. It would be true to the source material and explain what his secondary power might be.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Are you guys serious. Yeah, because someone who's aligned with the mafia would come out and say they're aligned with the mafia.

RIP Selina

I was a bit concerned about Camjo's override, but I'm willing to buy his explanation. I'm also #TeamNeutralSK. I think night killing him will just activate a killing power.

Nice slip up, by the way. I'm sure it'll go ignored, though, no worries.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Are you guys serious. Yeah, because someone who's aligned with the mafia would come out and say they're aligned with the mafia.

Then it was a joke?

 

[Coppanuva]

Jason Todd's stint as a the Red Hood was started by the Joker nearly killing him. It would be true to the source material and explain what his secondary power might be.

Ahh I misread it a bit and thought you wereadvocating a nk not just theorizing.

 

[Trigger]

Nice slip up, by the way. I'm sure it'll go ignored, though, no worries.

????

Ok, I'm seriously going to take a more level-headed approach from here on, but I'd like to revisit Camjo for a second. I think I can see what's going on.

To look at the lore for a second, Jason Todd was killed by the Joker in Death in the Family. He was resurrected by Ra's al Ghul in Under the Hood. When he was resurrected, he sets out to right the wrong done against him by holding the Joker hostage and telling Batman that he either kills him (Jason) or lets Jason kill the Joker.

I think that Camjo-Z is in fact a neutral. Once he's targeted, he's going to flip to neutral and his win condition will change to "kill the Joker", along it gaining the ability to perform night kills.

I'm just agreeing Launch.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Then it was a joke?

Eh, jokes are either meant to kill or be funny. Let's just say dry sarcasm.

????

Hmph, wording interpretation along with Coppanuva's thoughts. I won't disregard it as he did, though.

 

[Sorian]

Are you guys serious. Yeah, because someone who's aligned with the mafia would come out and say they're aligned with the mafia.

Yes, yes, we get it. If you yearn for death so badly then we'll all feel bad and assume you are town.

"But guys, I was just joking!"

 

[weemadarthur]

I don't know if I'm changing the meta too much, but I'm perfectly happy to lynch people who ask to die. Maybe you should find that random poster up there and offer him your role so you don't have to worry about what it will do to the game.

 

[Trigger]

Hmph, wording interpretation along with Coppanuva's thoughts. I won't disregard it as he did, though.

Fair enough.

I suppose it'd be way to convenient for scum team to be topo, camjo, flux, and kark.

The hell is this?

The smell of worry.

So yeah, about Mazre's post: Why this reaction? Re-reading the thread, I'm not sure if you're upset by being grouped with them or the assumption that Topo/Camjo/Kark are scum.....?

 

[Karkador]

So, since Topo has now outlived his usefulness, how about we just lynch him?

 

[Karu]

I don't know if I'm changing the meta too much, but I'm perfectly happy to lynch people who ask to die. Maybe you should find that random poster up there and offer him your role so you don't have to worry about what it will do to the game.

If I would be allowed to kill every person who slightly annoys me in such ways, we probably wouldn't even talking/playing anymore

Seriously though, Flux doesn't do himself a favour, but I wanna see the Day go on a bit to make further judgments. Right now? Let him play...

 

[Ty4on]

So, since Topo has now outlived his usefulness, how about we just lynch him?

Speaking of that, why did you tie the vote five times yesterday?

 

[Sorian]

Things I have on the table, this is for my own purposes to remember as well as making sure my cards are showing.

Coppa - I did remove my vote from here for a side quest at the moment. He's posting, kind of, for now. I'm watching him closely today.

Karu - Said side quest from above, Karu got very flusterd from weemad's simple questioning, has since disappeared from the thread. Leaving my vote here until I see something else worth pressuring. He was on my fairly innocuous inactive list from day 1 so this is good, I'm hoping to drag him into the light more and see his reaction.

Topo - Waiting for a response to my question. Why choose to block scum chat during the day as opposed to at night (assuming I read his claim correctly in that he could choose either or).

Flux - I still think Flux is a scummy fuck and this "oh no, you really think scum would actually SAY they are scum, haha" routine is already grating. He dodged death by a hair yesterday and I think the plan is to scare us off from the lynch as much as possible now on the heels of a mislynch.

 

[Karkador]

Speaking of that, why did you tie the vote five times yesterday?

That's not the same topic;

but to answer your question, it's because Batman does not kill. But Topo's power was one shot, so Batman does make exceptions.

 

[Sorian]

So, since Topo has now outlived his usefulness, how about we just lynch him?

Do you think his claim is a lie?

If I would be allowed to kill every person who slightly annoys me in such ways, we probably wouldn't even talking/playing anymore

Seriously though, Flux doesn't do himself a favour, but I wanna see the Day go on a bit to make further judgments. Right now? Let him play...

How do you always show up when people are just accusing you of being absent?

 

[Ty4on]

That's not the same topic;

but to answer your question, it's because Batman does not kill. But Topo's power was one shot, so Batman does make exceptions.

Sort of.

If you didn't want to kill Topo, why not Flux?

 

[Karkador]

the truth is that i wanted to tie the vote so that more people voted one way or another. if it's 5 and 5, someone is either going to keep dogpiling, or someone is going to pull out. you know my MO, ty. gotta commit those votes on two choices, and then refer back to that vote later.

 

[Xamtheking]

the truth is that i wanted to tie the vote so that more people voted one way or another. if it's 5 and 5, someone is either going to keep dogpiling, or someone is going to pull out. you know my MO, ty. gotta commit those votes on two choices, and then refer back to that vote later.

So you wanted to prevent a lynch in order to see voting patterns

 

[Karkador]

that's why it was rather concerning that mazre and xam 'broke the pact' by breaking the tie. i understand that people have a boner for the blind D1 lynch, and that act alone doesn't condemn someone, but it's information. likewise, all the people who ended up dogpiling on flux at the end.

 

[Karkador]

So you wanted to prevent a lynch in order to see voting patterns

It's more like forcing a vote on the top 2.

 

[Xamtheking]

It's more like forcing a vote on the top 2.

But I assume you wanted a tie
Because that is what would have happened

 

[Ty4on]

But I assume you wanted a tie
Because that is what would have happened

Flux was running away with it at the end. He was just one vote away from a turbo when Camjo overrode.