I'm preeetty sure that they actually can (not leaving it to the user mind you, although some would like that, but following a given profile depending on which machine the game runs on).Because that's not how optimization for console games work. It's not like they make PC-esque "settings" and turn shit down to "medium" for one console and call it a day.
I believe you are a PC gamer yourself?
How does the idea of setting standard profiles (say 1080p30 for Sp/ 900p60 Mp for PS4 and 1080p60 SP with High/ Ultra fx SP or 1080p60 with low/med settings on MP for PS4K) seem so alien to you?
Think about this one a little bit more. Is this really the metric you want to measure your console experience against? Things are not all sunshine and roses depending on the kind of system you have. On a per machine bases even with simlar specs of users see a difference in software performance and quality.
The benefit of a fucking console is you don't need to worry about this shit or if you are getting the best experience. It just works.
Let's say it is (I disagree) , it also has an average power consumption of 200watts
There is no way they would release a ps4k in early 2017 and still have it be on 28nm, that would be really dumb and really pointless.
If they wanted to release ps4 with a 200w 28nm GCN gpu they could have done so in 2013.
Same exact sacrifices that are being made currently in every ps4 game
A ps4k existing does not make the ps4 less or more powerful.
No matter what game you play , no matter on what hardware, it's always a pile of compromise and sacrifices and there is always something better possible on better hardware.
It's still fragmentation of the user base. Do you not think developers with have to factor in the hardware differences when creating games?
They will either need to cater to the base hardware (which means the upgraded units will never be fully utilized and see their full potential) or they will with develop to the stronger hardware and base users will have to deal with the consequences of such a decision (lower performance, worse looking games, etc)
It's not as simple as you make it.
Stupid question. With games now expecting to be 4K resolution, how much bigger in terms of GB are they expected to increase by?
I am not sure what your angle is then...I am mainly game on PC, I familiar with the idea of setting.
PC gaming on high end hardware basically playing high setting cross gen game, which is wasting hardware potential.
Stupid question. With games now expecting to be 4K resolution, how much bigger in terms of GB are they expected to increase by?
I'm preeetty sure that they actually can (not leaving it to the user mind you, although some would like that, but following a given profile depending on which machine the game runs on).
Unless you imply that a game would have to be designed and optimized completely separately for both machines (which as far as the leak goes is only an iteration, not a different architecture at all).
For original 3DS owners? Yes. They can't play Xenoblade Chronicles, and get a shit version of Hyrule Warriors Legends.
I am not sure what your angle is then...
Are you arguing that there -should- be PS4K exclusives?
That'd be insane.
The profile is custom for the hardware. They're obviously not building an entirely new game from ground up (like what sometimes ended up happening in the SNES <-> Genesis days), but there's a lot more involved than just dropping some settings. The best sites like Digital Foundry do is give an estimate of what the equivalent settings would be (e.g., "the shadows on the console version are ABOUT the same as Medium settings on PC"), which is a comparison made for the consumer but doesn't necessarily translate to the developers literally putting the shadows on "medium" for the console version. Especially considering since most games are built for consoles first then ported to PC.
Yup. I'm done with home console gaming if this becomes a trend.
Thats exactly what I am looking at, the PC gaming. And based exactly on that model all I see is that 99% of the cases PCs are being slown down by consoles. PCs could have this "next gen gaming" years ago based on their hardware specs and numbers, yet they had to wait for PS4/XB1 to unleash it.
Even now, they arent exploiting their full potential.
So, the exact same thing will become of consoles. No1 will have the proper time to fully exploit the hardware of either PS4 or PS4K. PS4 will get serious downgrades the moment a dev gets down to a bottleneck situation, where in nowdays he would try to work around that bottleneck and get the result he wanted. He wont do that if PS4K is around.
Also PS4K will be limited to what PS4 can pull through. Just like PC gamers had to wait all this time for new consoles to arrive to enjoy next gen graphics, when they had the hardware to do that years ago.
Its really just common sense.
High end PCs would still be held back by lower power PCs even if consoles didn't exist or were not underpowered.
And with that in mind, Sony can establish profiles with the API and "recommendations" while the devs are then free to optimize either way, knowing that the public will have some specific expectations (aiming for 1080p30 Single Player on PS4, 1080p60 on PS4K, etc.). I never thought it was a simple matter of setting a slider to "medium" or "high" as far as devs are concerned.The profile is custom for the hardware. They're obviously not building an entirely new game from ground up (like what sometimes ended up happening in the SNES <-> Genesis days), but there's a lot more involved than just dropping some settings. The best sites like Digital Foundry do is give an estimate of what the equivalent settings would be (e.g., "the shadows on the console version are ABOUT the same as Medium settings on PC"), which is a comparison made for the consumer but doesn't necessarily translate to the developers literally putting the shadows on "medium" for the console version. Especially considering since most games are built for consoles first then ported to PC.
PC market works the same. Most publishers target the middle of the bell curve. Folks at the top end get better FPS and few extra effects. The general complexity of design clumps around what the console gen can handle.
So like in PC gaming, games will target the base and maybe throw random feature or two to the high end.
A fate worse than no Xenoblade Cronicles for handheld and just a badly running Hyrule Warriors Legend.
While true, it's also not like they have to program everything specifically for each console. They might not just switch between "high" and "medium" shadows, but it's still pretty much just a value they can simply tweak until they hit the right balance.
And with that in mind, Sony can establish profiles with the API and "recommendations" while the devs are then free to optimize either way, knowing that the public will have some specific expectations (aiming for 1080p30 Single Player on PS4, 1080p60 on PS4K, etc.). I never thought it was a simple matter of setting a slider to "medium" or "high" as far as devs are concerned.
I am not sure what your angle is then...
Are you arguing that there -should- be PS4K exclusives?
That'd be insane.
Both will get the drop. Devs wont spend enough time optimizing PS4 ports and at the same time they will be constrained by the common denominator's (ps4 hardware) that will stop them from going all out with PS4K.
It will be basically the same thing that happens with PC gaming today.
Assassins Creed 3 could have Unity graphics for PC all those years ago, and yet, due to PS360 all they got was upgraded resolution/textures and framerate... and under the hood they had a hardware with far far faaar greater potential.
Devs will always built their game with the weaker hardware in mind.
With PS4K, everyone loses. We will be in a constant cross gen phase...
Having just come back from a 2 week ban with no input in this conversation.....
My first thoughts are that i personally agree with Eurogamer's assessment of the situation, which is more bewilderment than anything else, but also some negativity.
I don't really understand why they are bothering with this when they already have a fully successful console they can sell at a reasonable price without having to invest all that much into it. The same concept of a 4.5 could have been used for a full on upgrade years down the line when HW permitted.
Now instead they are trying to split the PS4 userbase into two halves leaving out 40 million people who have invested in the console, many of which assuming that the PS4 would be Sony's priority going forward until the next gen.
And yet barely 2 years in, we have a refresh which renders the PS4 far lower a priority both in terms of Sony's investment and developer investment...there's no way Sony can even tell third party developers to make two versions of their game if they focus on PS4K's specs.
Its just putting crazy stress on their own developers with nothing really to show for it besides saying they have a slightly more powerful unit on the market they have to cater to in addition to the one they had from the start. They are trying to solve an answer to a question that nobody was even asking, its completely pointless.
If this all turns out to be the worst case scenario and its 500 dollars(the same price XB1 got crucified for) and there's no upgrade path, and every game is going to have a "poverty" version and a "4K" version in the same console closed ecosystem, effectively splitting up the userbase, Sony will have really found a way i think to destroy the momentum and good will they have fostered with the original PS4 launch.
I agree with everything here. As someone who rarel buys non-Nintendo hardware at launch but made an exception for the PS4 because I could afford it this time and because it seemed like a smart investment, I feel incredibly bummed out by this new development. This new version effectively makes my previous also not insignificant purchase feel like a mistake all of a sudden, instead of like the smart and economical way to keep playing the majority of the latest games.
I could never feel safe buying a Sony machine at launch after this ever again if this all pans out, which is complete opposite of how I felt until this news.
[u]By the way, are we 100% sure this is not some elaborate (longtime coming) April 1st hoax?[/u]
Yes.
Not gonna happen (now this is getting ridiculous, nothing has been even announced by Sony and yet here we are with claims of 1080p30 goal for a nonexisting PS4K)...In theory yes. In practice, they will try and make games look better despite framerate ending up with:
1080p30 or slightly better on PS4K
1080p 20 on normal PS4 (like the new FF15 demo)
I've been told that this thread was actually 3D printed by a GAF member.I agree with everything here.
As someone who rarely buys (non-Nintendo) hardware at launch but made an exception for the PS4 because I could afford it this time and because it seemed like a smart investment, I feel incredibly bummed out by this new development.
This new version, if truly coming, effectively makes my previous - also not insignificant - purchase feel like a mistake all of a sudden instead of like the smart and economical way to keep playing the majority of the latest games without wanting to invest in a PC.
I could never feel safe buying a Sony machine at launch after this ever again if this all pans out, which is complete opposite of how I felt after my PS4 purchase and until this news.
By the way, are we 100% sure this is not some elaborate (longtime coming) April 1st hoax?
Go buy a PC then imho
Not gonna happen (now this is getting ridiculous, nothing has been even announced by Sony and yet here we are with claims of 1080p30 goal for a nonexisting PS4K)...
It would imply a 900p30 goal on PS4 if the difference in GPU power is indeed 2x, and that would be a turn about face on everything Sony (and most Devs) has tried to build with the PS4 so far.
Why on Earth would you aim for 1080p30 with the equivalent of a GTX 970?
Thats exactly what I am looking at, the PC gaming. And based exactly on that model all I see is that 99% of the cases PCs are being slown down by consoles. PCs could have this "next gen gaming" years ago based on their hardware specs and numbers, yet they had to wait for PS4/XB1 to unleash it.
Even now, they arent exploiting their full potential.
So, the exact same thing will become of consoles. No1 will have the proper time to fully exploit the hardware of either PS4 or PS4K. PS4 will get serious downgrades the moment a dev gets down to a bottleneck situation, where in nowdays he would try to work around that bottleneck and get the result he wanted. He wont do that if PS4K is around.
Also PS4K will be limited to what PS4 can pull through. Just like PC gamers had to wait all this time for new consoles to arrive to enjoy next gen graphics, when they had the hardware to do that years ago.
Its really just common sense.
Sony games aren't on pc. I want to play Sony games with nice graphics and nice fps. For some reason you don't want me to have the ability to do that even though it doesn't stop you from enjoying the same games however you want to enjoy them.
The single, most important reason to me is this. I can't play Uncharted, GT or God of War on a PC, no matter how more logical it would be to build one.
I'm more than fine with cutting edge tech like VXAO throw in, I'm not expecting major design overhauls.
Low specs as a base does not prevent high-end tech to make the cut as countless PC multiplats have proven. And this is only going to increase as devs will now have higher end fixed specs to target on top of a range of gaming PCs.
This, I believe, will lead to more technologically accomplished games and I'm all for it.
I'm not interested in buying either new console revisions, I just want tech to be pushed further.
PC gaming has been held back by PC gaming!
Devs can't just make a game that only work on high end PCs because that market is small & the devs would just lose money trying to target the high end only. Consoles is a big reason why PC games are getting bigger games now.
By the way, are we 100% sure this is not some elaborate (longtime coming) April 1st hoax?
The single, most important reason to me is this. I can't play Uncharted, GT or God of War on a PC, no matter how more logical it would be to build one.
Are Sony exclusives that persuasive though?
You forgot that the wall street journal was in on it as well.So just to make sure I understand:
The Neogaf Mods, in conjunction with Kotaku and Eurogamer, under the supervision of the reverse vampires, have conspired to create a giant three week long multi-site April Fool's joke.
That's your theory?
Think about this one a little bit more. Is this really the metric you want to measure your console experience against? Things are not all sunshine and roses depending on the kind of system you have. On a per machine basis even with similar specs users see a difference in software performance and quality.
The benefit of a fucking console is you don't need to worry about this shit or if you are getting the best experience. It just works.
Apples to oranges. They are different brands/platforms. When you buy into the Xbox One ecosystem or the PS4 ecosystem you can safely assume you will have the exact same experience as any other user. Developers can ensure this as well.
I've been told that this thread was actually 3D printed by a GAF member.
So just to make sure I understand:
The Neogaf Mods, in conjunction with Kotaku and Eurogamer, under the supervision of the reverse vampires, have conspired to create a giant three week long multi-site April Fool's joke.
That's your theory?
Which is why console cannot go the PC route!
Sony games aren't on pc. I want to play Sony games with nice graphics and nice fps. For some reason you don't want me to have the ability to do that even though it doesn't stop you from enjoying the same games however you want to enjoy them.
I'm more than fine with cutting edge tech like VXAO throw in, I'm not expecting major design overhauls.
Low specs as a base does not prevent high-end tech to make the cut as countless PC multiplats have proven. And this is only going to increase as devs will now have higher end fixed specs to target on top of a range of gaming PCs.
This, I believe, will lead to more technologically accomplished games and I'm all for it.
I'm not interested in buying either new console revisions, I just want tech to be pushed further.
Not gonna happen (now this is getting ridiculous, nothing has been even announced by Sony and yet here we are with claims of 1080p30 goal for a nonexisting PS4K)...
It would imply a 900p30 goal on PS4 if the difference in GPU power is indeed 2x, and that would be a turn about face on everything Sony (and most Devs) has tried to build with the PS4 so far.
Why on Earth would you aim for 1080p30 with the equivalent of a GTX 970, knowing that expectations are 1080p30 on its less powered older brother?
I have amended the original.Because most of the time devs put "graphics" before framerate.