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[Moneal]

Has there been any insight on which is going to be the lead platform? If they develop for PS4 and then improve the PS4K version then great (doubtful though), but if they develop for the the PS4K and then port to PS4, I'm not confident we will get well optimized games.

Everthing but first party pc is already lead platform, so little will change for them. First party should be able to optimize for both, since they only have two targets.

 

[GlamFM]

So what happens if FPS games runs sublime on PS4k and runs inconsistently on PS4, esp during online MP?

The world as we know it ends.


I actually think a priority will be to keep an even playing field in MP.

 

[QaaQer]

PC is technically the lead

PC is rarely the lead platform for retail games, the ports usually get farmed out.

 

[jeffram]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but how do you have a machine with 2x GPU performance that doesn't existing game performance without patches?

Wouldn't there need to be additional OS changes to further throttle CPU/GPU performance in existing games?

It just seems odd that the power of the system would increase that much and existing games would not be impacted at all. Or am I misunderstanding the OP?

Because the software won't be "asking" the system to do anything differently than it asked from the PS4.

Somethings might improve, like loading times and maybe small amounts of pop-in, due to the system being able transfer data around more quickly, but the game won't run on a higher resolution or have better effects because that is not was is built into the program.

 

[mckmas8808]

PS4 VR is looking so expensive at this point.

Not if you just keep your normal PS4.

 

[rambis]

Personally, I think this is fucking bullshit. I didn't buy my PS4 thinking that there was going to be a better one released 2 years later. If there is no upgrade or trade in plan they are fucking assholes for this and basically giving the middle finger to 30+ Million people....Way to go.

Totally rational here.

 

[Papacheeks]

Fair enough. As long as the same people consider that there are people that genuinely want this, and not updating because they feel like they have to or just have a lot of money to burn.

The people who want this like GLAMFM and many other's are people who just want better IQ.
Like the people who want what's new, and the majority of people who are still buying the current version of PS4 on a casual consumer level have no clue at the moment on what's coming until it's announced in a store.

And that right there causes confusion, and also resentment on buying that product again. Becasue traditional consoles have not changed or when companies tried the so called hardware upgrade path, they failed so people who heard about it were not worried.
But if let's say those people who just love new tech are there upfront for PS4K, and they sell for the first year, then we hear about PS5 following that.

How do you think early adopters will react?
This will have a impact in along term effect on how adoption rate is during launch of new consoles.
You think people will be as ravenous as they were for PS4 and XBox one for PS5 and XBNEXT?

Think again,

 

[joecanada]

So what happens if FPS games runs sublime on PS4k and runs inconsistently on PS4, esp during online MP?

then the ps4 will be performing exactly as it already is, some titles are great, others are a bit choppy. Exactly the same.

or maybe sony will release a patch to gimp your ps4 to force you to upgrade, I mean we haven't explored that yet have we?

 

[RoboPlato]

So what happens if FPS games runs sublime on PS4k and runs inconsistently on PS4, esp during online MP?

More and more games seem to be targeting 60fps in MP so it would probably be more differences in effects and resolution in MP.

I guess I was thinking more about "60fps" games that are really just unlocked framerates -- I'd think maybe those at least would toe the line better. I'd be a much bigger fan if that was the case vs. somehow artificially keeping performance identical on legacy titles.

Oh yeah, I think those games would show some real improvements. I want to give Shadow Fall and Second Son an go on this thing.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

I'd love to see if the people complaining about this are the same ones that complain about suboptimal performance in their games. How the fuck do you expect a solution to the latter unless you get an upgrade in hardware? You either continue complaining about worse performance and play your older console, or you buy a new one and experience better performance, but probably still complain about having to buy a new console, in which case make up your fucking mind.

 

[Elandyll]

Come on Osiris, spill the beans!

In fact I already know the data, I just want to make sure you got the same thing.
Let's say it together at the same time in
3

2


1


GO.

Spoiler

I know nothing, this is a clever trap.

 

[The God]

It is a clarification on their own original statement. Are you suggesting we split Osiris in half and argue both sides now?

No, because it's not Osiris' original statement. The OP says "It was also stated that these games will in fact work for the PS4 but with considerable sacrifices made to performance. " The bolded implies that it was the statement of whoever was doing the briefing, and Osiris offered his own interpretation.

 

[mckmas8808]

But if PSVR comes out in Oct, and PS4k comes out in Q1 2017, Id expect them most of the PSVR stuff to be PS4k only simply because I think the PS4 is too underpowered to handle VR. 60fps isn't that great of an experience in VR as both the rift and Vive are targeting 90fps.

But most games are running at 90 and 120 fps in PSVR, so what are you talking about?

 

[vpance]

If they choose the PS4 as lead platform then the PS4K won't be fully used and people won't see their money's worth. If they choose the PS4K then PS4 ports will suffer because they have a new benchmark in the console space.

I imagine PS4K buyers will accept that first possibility as much as PC gamers do now.

 

[Raide]

PC is rarely the lead platform for retail games, the ports usually get farmed out.

I meant that PC is what things are developed on, al the assets are created etc and then they scale those to the system they are built for. I should have been a bit more detailed.

 

[joecanada]

The world as we know it ends.


I actually think a priority will be to keep an even playing field in MP.

#PS4Knoparity

 

[chrishackwood]

Does anyone else think this has been leaked deliberately, to test the waters on peoples reactions?

Given its a move that could start a precedent that could see Sony walk away with the console market or cause it to stumble and put it behind. if it wasn't a success imagine all the wasted marketing and resources along with good will lost on the consumers part.

 

[Lima]

So what happens if FPS games runs sublime on PS4k and runs inconsistently on PS4, esp during online MP?

Then the peasants will be rightfully crushed.

 

[rayman1900]

So, I need to know something...

Let's say I'm a game dev and I want to port my game from PS4 to PS4K, would I just consider better performance from the get go or do I need to bring improvement out of my game in order to take advantage of the CPU/GPU boost ?

 

[Papacheeks]

Does anyone else think this has been leaked deliberately, to test the waters on peoples reactions?

Given its a move that could start a precedent that could see Sony walk away with the console market or cause it to stumble and put it behind. if it wasn't a success imagine all the wasted marketing and resources along with good will lost on the consumers part.

Yes.

I think if it goes to more wide spread channels, and store fronts on a floor level, people will talk and feedback will be decisive if they fully go through with it or not. I wouldn't mind hearing from studios what they think of it?

 

[CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls]

If they release a trade-in or upgrade option that cuts the price significantly, I'm fine with it. Otherwise, whatever. Just keep my plebian PS4 games running tight.

 

[Killroyskbg]

Personally, I think this is fucking bullshit. I didn't buy my PS4 thinking that there was going to be a better one released 2 years later. If there is no upgrade or trade in plan they are fucking assholes for this and basically giving the middle finger to 30+ Million people....Way to go.

So you are only jelous other people get the chanse to buy one?

 

[RoboPlato]

So, I need to know something...

Let's say I'm a game dev and I want to port my game from PS4 to PS4K, would I just consider better performance from the get go or do I need to bring improvement out of my game in order to take advantage of the CPU/GPU boost ?

Depends on where the bottlenecks are and what kind of differences there are between the two consoles. I'm guessing Sony's going to make it as easy as they can.

 

[JimiNutz]

Personally, I think this is fucking bullshit. I didn't buy my PS4 thinking that there was going to be a better one released 2 years later. If there is no upgrade or trade in plan they are fucking assholes for this and basically giving the middle finger to 30+ Million people....Way to go.

I bought mine at Christmas!
I do like the idea of new hardware but Sony really need to offer some kind of upgrade programme...

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

I imagine PS4K buyers will accept that first possibility as much as PC gamers do now.

I really don't know. PC gamers were basically forced to accept that as third parties usually considers consoles as lead platforms and hire some studio to do the PC port.

But it's a possibility.

 

[Elandyll]

Yes.

This man speaks the truth.

Spoiler

Again, I know nothing

 

[SmiteOfHand]

No, because it's not Osiris' original statement. The OP says "It was also stated that these games will in fact work for the PS4 but with considerable sacrifices made to performance. " The bolded implies that it was the statement of whoever was doing the briefing, and Osiris offered his own interpretation.

And I am going to take their interpretation and clarification of the events over people on a forum who weren't even in the room.

 

[Papacheeks]

This man speaks the truth.

Spoiler

Again, I know nothing

Spoiler

YOUR A TRAP!

 

[vcc]

PC is technically the lead and then the reduce down but for Sony 1st party titles, the strongest is always first, unless Sony put something in place to force developers to cater for the lowest first.

Wait, wasn't the greatest install base usually the lead. NES. SNES. PS1. PS2. 360.

Even now many PC games aren't the lead. Games like QB/TR/COD etc.. have obnoxiously high system requirements because the PC platform wasn't the lead platform and got less attention for optimization and features.

 

[Elandyll]

Spoiler

YOUR A TRAP!

Spoiler

Am I a Trap?

Yes, yes I am.


Edit: still waiting on Osiris with the additional info

 

[Raistlin]

OsirisBlack's edit isn't clarification. That's just his interpretation, or "just the way he took it"

I dunno why y'all wanna act like people aren't allowed to have concerns about this lol.

Concerns are one thing, but this thread is heading towards FUD territory. All from overheard discussion by devs making no official statements, and the non-official statements themselves can be interpreted more than one way. In other words this isn't even a rumor of 'poor performance' in the way many are taking it. It's an interpretation of said rumor being taken to heart by many.


Here's my take on why at this point there is no reason for concern:

1) While I'm not a game developer, I am a professional developer and do have a passing knowledge of game development. If this was a situation of devs talking among themselves, I would not interpret 'poor performance' in the layman way. Without the full context I'd actually assume it was meant as 'low performance' versus 'mid / high performance' in PC gamer-speak.

2) From a logical business standpoint, it is obviously not in Sony's best interest to alienate their mass market. It will be long time (if ever) that the PS4K would be the majority Sony console this gen. For that reason alone it doesn't make sense for them to move with a strategy that would subject a majority of their customers to poorly playing games.

3) We have a long and well proven legacy of games being playable on different performing hardware with the PC side of things. And that is a with differing OS versions, differing processors, differing GPUs, differing RAM, differing drivers, etc. If that is tenable, the idea that it wouldn't be on a console with only 2 differing configurations, all using the same hardware family, and an SDK and drivers that are controlled by a single entity is a crazy leap.

 

[Papacheeks]

Wait, wasn't the greatest install base usually the lead. NES. SNES. PS1. PS2. 360.

Even now many PC games aren't the lead. Games like QB/TR/COD etc.. have obnoxiously high system requirements because the PC platform wasn't the lead platform and got less attention for optimization and features.

I wanted to ask you what your thoughts are on this, since you and other's were in the XBox forum as well talking about the refresh path?

 

[John Wick]

If there's no upgrade path, anyone with a PS4 deserves to feel burned. In any case making the devs support PS4 in a PS4K game makes the whole thing nearly pointless in performance. We just left cross-gen behind, it would be a shame to enter a new one.

It's not cross-gen though is it? In the same way the PC Games support a Radeon 7870 upto a 390X. Game's will run fine on both but at different levels of quality. Even on a 7870 The Division runs fine at 30fps 1080P at high settings.

 

[The God]

And I am going to take their interpretation and clarification of the events over people on a forum who weren't even in the room.

Cool. So let people have their doubts and concerts, and everything's good.

 

[rokkerkory]

then the ps4 will be performing exactly as it already is, some titles are great, others are a bit choppy. Exactly the same.

or maybe sony will release a patch to gimp your ps4 to force you to upgrade, I mean we haven't explored that yet have we?

uhhhh never thought of that, but probably won't happen

 

[wapplew]

It's not cross-gen though is it? In the same way the PC Games support a Radeon 7870 upto a 390X. Game's will run fine on both but at different levels of quality. Even on a 7870 The Division runs fine at 30fps 1080P at high settings.

Imagine what ND can achieve on PS4K! Nope, we'll never get that because all PS4K games are just fancy PS4 games.
#PS4Knoholdback

 

[Marlenus]

Question is, are they going to use a full Tonga chip or a cut down version (Tonga pro)?

I don't think that a Polaris chip would be ready for the PS4k even though it's possible. However, I thought Sony and MS only used off the shelve parts to keep costs down. This is where a Tonga (380/380X) GPU makes more sense.

Polaris has been designed for 14nm already and there is already working silicone, re-designing tonga for 14nm would probably cost more than just using Polaris.

 

[Muzicfreq]

I would like the people who are all for this change to think of things like this

The future of Sony is on the line with a change like this. They can either
A) Create the new system with a high risk high reward with the potential possibility of dying off
OR
B) Play it safe and not do this move and ride it out till time for the PS5 with even better hardware and stay in the race.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Best news out of this is that DEEP DOWN is potentially alive and kicking, and in 4K. Really like all the stuff I have seen from this game since it was unveiled a few years ago.

 

[GlamFM]

Best news out of this is that DEEP DOWN is potentially alive and kicking

Yes.

and in 4K.

No.

 

[RoadHazard]

Yes, so instead of making sure the game plays fine on the system, they try and sell us a better PS4.

Sooo... Sony and SE are secretly conspiring to make you buy a PS4K by sabotaging FFXV's performance on the PS4? Yep, makes sense.

 

[Bsigg12]

I would like the people who are all for this change to think of things like this

The future of Sony is on the line with a change like this. They can either
A) Create the new system with a high risk high reward with the potential possibility of dying off
OR
B) Play it safe and not do this move and ride it out till time for the PS5 with even better hardware and stay in the race.

Why would I consider either one of those? If they go the iterative route it just means I could buy a new Playstation every few years when I feel like my current one isn't holding up any longer and be able to continue playing any games I already own. Sony makes the majority of their money from software sales, keeping you in so you're buying games and content on their platforms is far more important than you buying a low margin console every 6 years.

 

[vcc]

I wanted to ask you what your thoughts are on this, since you and other's were in the XBox forum as well talking about the refresh path?

It's a stupid business decision no matter who does it. Many current customers will feel burned; especially recent purchasers. There will be a implied pressure to upgrade and many customers weren't expecting nor wanted that. On the other side it's more work for developers and more things to think about for publishers which is not positive. Without a fierce push from the platform holder to support the new SKU there will be no support. A fierce push would be alienating because it's asking a business partner to spend more for something that has a marginal return for them.

Many timing factors for the customer and the publishers don't support big mid gen upgrades. It's why moves like this failed in the past. It made a new half step which lacks support and divides the customer base. It doesn't matter if it's Sony or MS or Nintendo or Atari or NeoGeo or Sega or NEC/Hudson.

 

[Raistlin]

Sooo... Sony and SE are secretly conspiring to make you buy a PS4K by sabotaging FFXV's performance on the PS4? Yep, makes sense.

Yup. Especially when at launch, it is quite possible the PS4K will actually be sold at less margin than the standard SKU. Makes perfect sense.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Wait, wasn't the greatest install base usually the lead. NES. SNES. PS1. PS2. 360.

Even now many PC games aren't the lead. Games like QB/TR/COD etc.. have obnoxiously high system requirements because the PC platform wasn't the lead platform and got less attention for optimization and features.

SNES/Genesis era is EXTREMELY different from the rest of those. The two platforms had extremely different architectures so there wasn't actually a "lead" per se; you just got multiplatform games that were wildly different between the two. For example, Sunset Riders and Aladdin, both practically two different games between the two systems.

PS1/Saturn/N64 era is also interesting because PCs still had a (compared to today) more unique scene and demographic that didn't quite cross over w/ consoles. That only began to really change in 6th gen, arguably due in part to the Xbox.

 

[FStubbs]

I guess NX will catch up to PS4 only to be left way behind again.

 

[Papacheeks]

It's a stupid business decision no matter who does it. Many current customers will feel burned; especially recent purchasers. There will be a implied pressure to upgrade and many customers weren't expecting nor wanted that. On the other side it's more work for developers and more things to think about for publishers which is not positive. Without a fierce push from the platform holder to support the new SKU there will be no support. A fierce push would be alienating because it's asking a business partner to spend more for something that has a marginal return for them.

Many timing factors for the customer and the publishers don't support big mid gen upgrades. It's why moves like this failed in the past. It made a new half step which lacks support and divides the customer base. It doesn't matter if it's Sony or MS or Nintendo or Atari or NeoGeo or Sega or NEC/Hudson.

Thanks, me and you were on the same page in that thread as well as this one. Glad to know I'm not alone.

 

[Muzicfreq]

Why would I consider either one of those? If they go the iterative route it just means I could buy a new Playstation every few years when I feel like my current one isn't holding up any longer and be able to continue playing any games I already own. Sony makes the majority of their money from software sales, keeping you in so you're buying games and content on their platforms is far more important than you buying a low margin console every 6 years.

Go buy a PC then imho

 

[xorx]

Console generations are dead then huh?

 

[Hahs]

I would like the people who are all for this change to think of things like this

The future of Sony is on the line with a change like this. They can either
A) Create the new system with a high risk high reward with the potential possibility of dying off
OR
B) Play it safe and not do this move and ride it out till time for the PS5 with even better hardware and stay in the race.

I think of it like this:

Sony is a manufacturer of many things tech - not just games. This for them means more revenue for Sony, whom also happens to own a gaming division.

People will consume as usual, but if the number don't ring true - it's not like anythings dying off...some people are so dramatic and general when it comes to the multifaceted.