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[pelican]

So it's now ok to complain about a new product on the market simply because you can't afford it?

It's not like they are forcing anyone to buy it provided the games continue to come out on both versions.

Agreed,

At the beginning I was felt some empathy for those not in a position to buy the console at release. Now I am tired of their moaning. Acting as if the world owes them a living, or in this case Sony a console.

The world does not revolve around their limited bank accounts. There will be plenty of consumers in a position to buy this console and their entertainment should not be restricted by the vocal consumers who can't.

A tentative Q1 launch window is at least 10 months away. Save up if you can't buy it out right.

 

[Beefy]

Oh look there's something I really want but I can't afford it at the moment. Let me just complain on a message board, that will help. Hold on, just about to create a new account on Ferrarichat to complain about the new GTC4 Lusso. I'm hoping they will take pity on me and cancel the car all together. If I can't have it nobody else can. BRB.

Spoiler

But in all seriousness, nothing changes for the ps4 because of this. Developers and Sony are not about to leave behind 40 million users in favour of what is going to be a newer, more expensive and niche version of an already existing console.

Yes a poor person can afford a Ferrari in the first place.... If you can't see why some would be slightly annoyed with this then I have nothing more to say.

As for the spoiler part. How do you know nothing changes?

 

[Corto]

So how is it that MS and Sony come to the same conclusion at roughly the same time, that an evolution of their console is needed. Do they actually work together in some respects, or does one find out the other is heading that direction and immediately get the ball rolling on their own project?

It's just weird that they both are heading this way and are so in sync.

AMD showed both companies their roadmap. They knew what tech they had available at that price point in 2013. Xbox one and PS4 were devices that were very much restrained by their launch windows.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Devs need 2 and 3 years to make AAA games... good luck to them if we update the hardware like apple does...

These are not small time mobile games. These are huge complex creations.

You think that if we adopt a 1-2 year console hardware upgrade, that devs are going to be able to exploit the full potential of the hardware? It would be impossible to do that, it will be even hard as hell to dev the game in such short time as it is.

Just look at PC devs. and the entire PC game industry. A new console every 1-3 years isn't going to make AAA games impossible to develop. Base architecture etc. would likely remain the same and it would be handled just as it is with a PC. Multiple assets and options for effects and resolutions etc. Not a big deal here.

 

[Herb Alpert]

The Last of Us: Reremastered

and Tomb raider. and beyond two souls. and god of war. and shadow of the colossus. And Uncharted. and heavy rain.

The remastered remasters.

 

[Maroon Gamer]

I'm glad I sold my PS4.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Yes a poor person can afford a Ferrari in the first place.... If you can't see why some would be slightly annoyed with this then I have nothing more to say.

As for the spoiler part. How do you know nothing changes?

People are annoyed for selfish and petty reasons. There is nothing inherently wrong about this move.

I'm glad I sold my PS4.

You will miss out on some great games this year.

 

[valkyre]

Oh look there's something I really want but I can't afford it at the moment. Let me just complain on a message board, that will help. Hold on, just about to create a new account on Ferrarichat to complain about the new GTC4 Lusso. I'm hoping they will take pity on me and cancel the car all together. If I can't have it nobody else can. BRB.

Spoiler

But in all seriousness, nothing changes for the ps4 because of this. Developers and Sony are not about to leave behind 40 million users in favour of what is going to be a newer, more expensive and niche version of an already existing console. The OG PS4 will likely continue on as normal and even continue to outsell this newer version.

How can you honestly say that nothing changes for PS4 users? Do you really believe that companies like Ubisoft, bethesda and others will give 2 shits about PS4 versions when PS4K is around as an excuse to have complete shit optimizing for the standard version of the console?

The excuse "its not X devs fault that PS4 is weak ass hardware, buy the PS4K if you want to play the way it was meant to be played"...

And yes it is an excuse, you guys probably remember all the remarks about how PS4 cant handle witcher 3 thats why it had so many framerate issues, and yet, alas, with proper optimization in a later patch the framerate is pretty much rock solid now.

 

[Rbk_3]

Well, I didn't mean nothing EXISTS in 4k. 1080p is needed for our 40 inches living room TVs. 4k needs 2 things: plethora more content + 60 inches living rooms to become important. And I wonder if that will ever become mainstream really. 4k will probably stay niche (and therefore perceived as a gimmick by most --- just like 3D) for a very very long time.

But you know, society changes. People are becoming more and more naturals with consumption and who knows what they can create in matter of "needs" in 2016. There's at least a theorical change this "guess" will work.

Well these days a 50" tv is considered average. A lot of the flagship models don't come in anything under 50". I know I am going to their the new 65" Vizio P series, so I am going to be falling in that 60+ inch requirement

Considering I am getting that TV, this Ps4.5 will be perfect since I would have likely bought an UHD Player anyway.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

Yes a poor person can afford a Ferrari in the first place.... If you can't see why some would be slightly annoyed with this then I have nothing more to say.

As for the spoiler part. How do you know nothing changes?

Like he said, devs + publishers and console makers have more than 50 millions reasons not to screw their current customers over new iterations of the same systems.

 

[DrBo42]

If there's no upgrade path, anyone with a PS4 deserves to feel burned. In any case making the devs support PS4 in a PS4K game makes the whole thing nearly pointless in performance. We just left cross-gen behind, it would be a shame to enter a new one.

 

[blastprocessor]

0.5m hits and the conclusion?

Marmite.

 

[mocoworm]

Fragmentation of the user base.
Makes PS4 obsolete.
Makes PS4 VR obsolete.
Makes exclusives for PS4 not exclusive.
Piss Off parents.
Confuse consumers.
Exclusives sell consoles.
Screw early PS4 adopters.
Possibly screw early PS4K adopters.

Call it a PS5, update the specs again, release it in 2018/2019

 

[PanicFreak]

I really don't care that I might be missing out on better graphics / experiences. I care that devs targeting the new console might not put as much effort into optimisation of the lesser console. Like PS4 vs Xbox games 1080p vs 720-900p and choppy framerates.

I don't think this sort of thing happens without consultation from the developers. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if developers do very little to optimize their games for the higher spec platforms.

 

[Beefy]

People are annoyed for selfish and petty reasons. There is nothing inherently wrong about this move.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with what Sony are doing? I am saying people have a right to be annoyed about it if it effects them.

 

[wapplew]

Just look at PC devs. and the entire PC game industry. A new console every 1-3 years isn't going to make AAA games impossible to develop. Base architecture etc. would likely remain the same and it would be handled just as it is with a PC. Multiple assets and options for effects and resolutions etc. Not a big deal here.

PC game is the living example of dev not able to exploit hardware full potential.

 

[KingSnake]

Dual GPU on the same APU and clocked higher makes a bit of sense for the price range they are going for. It won't be as powerful, but still a good step up. Surely not 4k for any significant game, but some Indies might get there. I don't know how will this APU be limited by the memory in this case, though.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

You'll never understand the pain he/she has...

 

[vpance]

How can you honestly say that nothing changes for PS4 users? Do you really believe that companies like Ubisoft, bethesda and others will give 2 shits about PS4 versions when PS4K is around as an excuse to have complete shit optimizing for the standard version of the console?

The excuse "its not X devs fault that PS4 is weak ass hardware, buy the PS4K if you want to play the way it was meant to be played"...

And yes it is an excuse, you guys probably remember all the remarks about how PS4 cant handle witcher 3 thats why it had so many framerate issues, and yet, alas, with proper optimization in a later patch the framerate is pretty much rock solid now.

Bethesda is not a good example. Every version they make will still be shit and look the same as XB1 version

 

[valkyre]

Just look at PC devs. and the entire PC game industry. A new console every 1-3 years isn't going to make AAA games impossible to develop. Base architecture etc. would likely remain the same and it would be handled just as it is with a PC. Multiple assets and options for effects and resolutions etc. Not a big deal here.

Thats exactly what I am looking at, the PC gaming. And based exactly on that model all I see is that 99% of the cases PCs are being slown down by consoles. PCs could have this "next gen gaming" years ago based on their hardware specs and numbers, yet they had to wait for PS4/XB1 to unleash it.

Even now, they arent exploiting their full potential.

So, the exact same thing will become of consoles. No1 will have the proper time to fully exploit the hardware of either PS4 or PS4K. PS4 will get serious downgrades the moment a dev gets down to a bottleneck situation, where in nowdays he would try to work around that bottleneck and get the result he wanted. He wont do that if PS4K is around.

Also PS4K will be limited to what PS4 can pull through. Just like PC gamers had to wait all this time for new consoles to arrive to enjoy next gen graphics, when they had the hardware to do that years ago.

Its really just common sense.

 

[PuppetMaster]

One way this could go is like GoW4 and GTSport will play in full quality on PS4.0

But if you want to play GoW4 an GTSport in VR you need PS4.5

 

[F4r0_Atak]

I am not saying there is anything wrong with what Sony are doing? I am saying people have a right to be annoyed about it if it effects them.

Sure, I know I am. But how can Sony find to accommodate both its current install base and the devs (who are struggling to optimize their engines properly, despite what they say)?

 

[GHG]

Yes a poor person can afford a Ferrari in the first place.... If you can't see why some would be slightly annoyed with this then I have nothing more to say.

As for the spoiler part. How do you know nothing changes?

If you are poor and you are pouring all your spare money into gaming consoles instead of using that money in other ways to try and improve your future then you will inevitably stay poor unless you happen to strike gold streaming on YouTube or in eSports.

As for your question, the answer is in the OP. The same games will continue to come out on the ps4. Why does it suddenly matter that the same games might look and run better on the PS4K? This has been the case since the day the ps4 released where there were and continue to be significant differences between the PC and the PS4 versions of the same game. You could also say that developers have had to significantly downgrade PC versions of games to get them running on consoles for years. Why are people only up in arms about this now? Why hasn't everyone already switched to the PC in comfy couch mode if it's that big a deal?

 

[darkinstinct]

So how is it that MS and Sony come to the same conclusion at roughly the same time, that an evolution of their console is needed. Do they actually work together in some respects, or does one find out the other is heading that direction and immediately get the ball rolling on their own project?

It's just weird that they both are heading this way and are so in sync.

They have the same supplier. AMD offers their chips to everyone, and they both saw the opportunity to get more power for just a little more expensive APU and thought it was a good deal. Microsoft saw their chance to overcome that 0.5 TFlops disadvantage over PS4 and Sony saw their chance to not loose the VR race to PC because of power (or lack thereof). I'm sure we'll end up with two updated consoles that are basically identical twins with different names. And Nintendo will just buy the same APU that is in Xbox One/PS4.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

So PS5?

 

[Solrac]

Just look at PC devs. and the entire PC game industry. A new console every 1-3 years isn't going to make AAA games impossible to develop. Base architecture etc. would likely remain the same and it would be handled just as it is with a PC. Multiple assets and options for effects and resolutions etc. Not a big deal here.

best example... a platform when devs only use raw power

 

[Teletraan1]

I am not upset the device exists. I think an updated PS4 is welcome actually. Especially if it plays the same SKU as a PS4 but with a different performance profile.

It is more that with PC parts or iPhone or Android phones you know and expect that there will be a new model refresh every 6 months so you can pick and choose if you want to upgrade. Maybe not buy a 970 because you know that a pascal was a year out and you could wait. With this because it is the first time in the history of consoles that we are getting a full refresh of the hardware I feel a bit cheated that I bought a PS4 at launch. I have played some decent games on it and probably got my money worth if I chose to upgrade to the 4k model but I can't shake that feeling that I was somehow duped even if I technically wasn't. Had I known there would be a 4K model releasing in its 3rd year I would have waited. Just like I will probably wait and see on a PS5 release. So the end result of this change is most likely 1 less sale from me on PS5 near launch. If this translates into less sales around launch of the next product then how viable and supported will the next platforms be?

As for the ability to play 4k. I feel this will be mostly for media and the name is pure marketing. Even a beefy upgrade isn't going to get you to 4K in AAA games. Perhaps some simpler games. I just hope it is used for 1080p/60 rather than just more effects and the same performance.

 

[RemiLP]

How can you honestly say that nothing changes for PS4 users? Do you really believe that companies like Ubisoft, bethesda and others will give 2 shits about PS4 versions when PS4K is around as an excuse to have complete shit optimizing for the standard version of the console?

The excuse "its not X devs fault that PS4 is weak ass hardware, buy the PS4K if you want to play the way it was meant to be played"...

And yes it is an excuse, you guys probably remember all the remarks about how PS4 cant handle witcher 3 thats why it had so many framerate issues, and yet, alas, with proper optimization in a later patch the framerate is pretty much rock solid now.

Why would they want to not make the best game they possible can, for the larger amount of their customers?

 

[F4r0_Atak]

One way this could go is like GoW4 and GTSport will play in full quality on PS4.0

But if you want to play GoW4 an GTSport in VR you need PS4.5

For First-party games, the only thing I could see (since they are supposedly just upscaling the games to 4K res) is they will have better fps. I honestly don't see them add more bells and whistles to their games. A bunch of SCE WWS did try to aim for 60 fps games/experiences... Hopefully, it will become standard with this rumored system if all is true.

 

[Fafalada]

Come on man we're talking about a more powerful console to run VR and normal games at a better performance. And you want PS3 BC?

I'm talking about messaging/actual viability of this as a business model. Hw is rather immaterial - people have not gotten up and arms about previous hardware upgrades in portable space, or even console space for that matter - but messaging was never on hardware in any of those cases.

I mean, the sometimes rocky or unstead 30 that we see...could now potentially get worse on a default ps4?

Any plan that requires iterations to be treated as separate hw-targets is a lose-lose proposition for publishers and developers alike - long before users even get involved. And I fail to see added value to the hw-manufacturer there either, unless they found a way to make Apple like margins on hardware.
The only ones who would view OP as it's currently written as a positive are people that usually make-up hw-launch rumors before real info arrives.

 

[Markoman]

I really don't see the issue here.
You have two consoles with one being more expensive and more powerful.
Also two versions of a game, one at 1080p with higher AF&AA and better textures and one with a few effects downgraded.
It's a choice, what's wrong with that?

Well, as a day one PS4 owner I can say that this option did not exist 2,5 years ago.
Me and many others may have acted differently in fall 2013 if we knew that a stronger PS4K will eventually come out in early 2017. Yes, it is an issue.

And please, for the love of god, don't bring up the iphone comparisson to counter my argument. My iphone 4 still does the job, there are no sacrifizes in comparisson to iphone 6 when it comes to the main purpose of this item. A new console running games better with better graphics is a totally different story.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Thats exactly what I am looking at, the PC gaming. And based exactly on that model all I see is that 99% of the cases PCs are being slown down by consoles. PCs could have this "next gen gaming" years ago based on their hardware specs and numbers, yet they had to wait for PS4/XB1 to unleash it.

Even now, they arent exploiting their full potential.

So, the exact same thing will become of consoles. No1 will have the proper time to fully exploit the hardware of either PS4 or PS4K. PS4 will get serious downgrades the moment a dev gets down to a bottleneck situation, where in nowdays he would try to work around that bottleneck and get the result he wanted. He wont do that if PS4K is around.

Also PS4K will be limited to what PS4 can pull through. Just like PC gamers had to wait all this time for new consoles to arrive to enjoy next gen graphics, when they had the hardware to do that years ago.

Its really just common sense.

High end PCs would still be held back by lower power PCs even if consoles didn't exist or were not underpowered.

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Some people enjoy spending money on technology, it's not "burning" money. "Burning" money is subjective. One mans treasure is another mans trash.

For those who don't have money to "burn" and are only complaining for that reason... stop wasting energy complaining on message boards and do something about changing that.

Spoiler

Thread is moving much too quickly so in case another poster hasn't said this already

Thus I said "all the power to you."

also, the second line is very poorly thought out, some people earn an allowance or a small salary AND are game enthusiasts.... in this context someone saving up their cash to spend it on what they assume is relatively static/stable tech won't have as many opportunities as others without these constraints. To elaborate further, in university my Ps3 wasn't bought for me, I had to save up for a while before I could afford it, it would have pissed me off knowing that I paid for a lesser machine.

But hey, screw those guys, right?

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

Would be all over this if true. Never felt that PS4 was a revolutionary step over PS3, felt more like a PS3.5 to me. Hopefully we can expect at least some of the first party games to get patched for PS4K and/or better performance.

 

[Raide]

So PS5?

No no, they will wait till they sell another 30mil plus PS4K's and then talk PS5 in 2 or 3 years. Then PS4 owners can really moan.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

So PS5?

Nope too soon. The specs are not there to state a whole new gen. It usually goes for 10x more powerful compared to previous gen.

 

[RipperGrim]

People saying that nothing changes for the ps4 user are so incredibly naive, especially with this industrys history.

All the new games Sony will be showing off if this is legit will always be for the ps4k. Those E3 demos will always leave people wondering what does the ps4 version look like now? And just like the issue with the cross gen games we will see people start complaining about how the ps4k is being underused because it has to cater for the ps4 as well. Ps4 user already deal with new games coming out that run like shit with frame rates all over the place, an issue that will get worse as they try and make the game look good for ps4k.

Not to mention the prices of the consoles that now apparently are going to last two or three years is just straight up not worth it. People were happy with the ps4 price because we all are expecting it to last 5 years with no thoughts of spending more money on hardware.

This whole idea is shit and the consumers in this industry have any sense they will reject as fiercely as the always online idea.

 

[PuppetMaster]

They have the same supplier. AMD offers their chips to everyone, and they both saw the opportunity to get more power for just a little more expensive APU and thought it was a good deal. Microsoft saw their chance to overcome that 0.5 TFlops disadvantage over PS4 and Sony saw their chance to not loose the VR race to PC because of power (or lack thereof). I'm sure we'll end up with two updated consoles that are basically identical twins with different names. And Nintendo will just buy the same APU that is in Xbox One/PS4.

Microsoft is kind of crippled by the architecture they choose. It wont be identical to Sony if they want to keep backwards compatability. MS decision to used edram+DDR3 is not something you can easily just convert out of.

Sony's design is very straight forward to get big gains out of. Just by increasing CUs and increasing GDDR5 capacity and speeds. Much simpler to iterate off of. Almost like this was Sonys plan all along.

 

[valkyre]

High end PCs would still be held back by lower power PCs even if consoles didn't exist or were not underpowered.

I agree, its one more reason why I prefer to have proper console cycles like we are used to, and to not introduce hardware/version upgrades.

This whole idea is shit and the consumers in this industry have any sense they will reject as fiercely as the always online idea.

Sadly I dont see this happening, people are way too easily excited,hyped and lured into the business model that companies crave for.

Cant wait to live the days where we will have "console master race" and "console peasant race"... fun times...

 

[GlamFM]

You'll find out as soon as they announce the first PS4K exclusive next year, or when the PS4.0 version is noticeably gimped.

The PS4 version will always be what it was going to be.

 

[thetester77]

Its certainly dividing opinion, and if I had recently bought a PS4 I would be feeling a bit hacked off too.

I bought at launch and then replaced with 20th Anniversary edition and really want an excuse to put it back in the box and keep.

I also have a 4k TV so if it has UHD Blu ray player i'm in regardless of increased specs elsewhere so I'm a perfect customer.

PS4/XBO will still be the target consoles due to the size of market with 'some' devs putting a bit extra work into making use of extra horsepower.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

best example... a platform when devs only use raw power

How will it impress people if devs only use the raw power? I am pretty sure people are more impressed when the devs push the hardware (console or pc) to its maximum capacity. No?

 

[Bolivar687]

I'm glad I sold my PS4.

I'm gonna keep mine as a Blu Ray player and media streaming device and with the chance that DQXI eventually makes it over. But it's tempting to get the value out of it now and it put it towards other stuff.

 

[F4r0_Atak]

High end PCs would still be held back by lower power PCs even if consoles didn't exist or were not underpowered.

This. Consoles won't change anything to the current PC situation due to its scalable specs.

 

[TheSlySoul]

So PS5?

Does not fit the Apple mold, we will get PS4K, PS5, PS5S, PS5SE, etc.

 

[RemiLP]

People saying that nothing changes for the ps4 user are so incredibly naive, especially with this industrys history.

All the new games Sony will be showing off if this is legit will always be for the ps4k. Those E3 demos will always leave people wondering what does the ps4 version look like now? And just like the issue with the cross gen games we will see people start complaining about how the ps4k is being underused because it has to cater for the ps4 as well. Ps4 user already deal with new games coming out that run like shit with frame rates all over the place, an issue that will get worse as they try and make the game look good for ps4k.

Not to mention the prices of the consoles that now apparently are going to last two or three years is just straight up not worth it. People were happy with the ps4 price because we all are expecting it to last 5 years with no thoughts of spending more money on hardware.

This whole idea is shit and the consumers in this industry have any sense they will reject as fiercely as the always online idea.

I thought the games shown were run on powerfull PCs now.

And you can still use your ps4. You can still play all the games that are comming out.

 

[platina]

sli, and there wont be a generational leap this is pure for 4k output.

Wow nice!

 

[MilkyJoe]

Spoiler

Thread is moving much too quickly so in case another poster hasn't said this already

Thus I said "all the power to you."

also, the second line is very poorly thought out, some people earn an allowance or a small salary AND are game enthusiasts.... in this context someone saving up their cash to spend it on what they assume is relatively static/stable tech won't have as many opportunities as others without these constraints. To elaborate further, in university my Ps3 wasn't bought for me, I had to save up for a while before I could afford it, it would have pissed me off knowing that I paid for a lesser machine.

But hey, screw those guys, right?

And I demand all Ferraris are recalled as my car is not as fast and doesn't get me laid.

 

[mangochutney]

Well, as a day one PS4 owner I can say that this option did not exist 2,5 years ago.
Me and many others may have acted differently in fall 2013 if we knew that a stronger PS4K will eventually come out in early 2017. Yes, it is an issue.

And please, for the love of god, don't bring up the iphone comparisson to counter my argument. My iphone 4 still does the job, there are no sacrifizes in comparisson to iphone 6 when it comes to the main purpose of this item. A new console running games better with better graphics is a totally different story.

What would you have done differently, and why?

 

[Solrac]

How will it impress people if devs only use the raw power? I am pretty sure people are more impressed when the devs push the hardware (console or pc) to its maximum capacity. No?

on pc devs never reach the max capacity, or you think that a gtx680 was squeezed at 99% ? just think how powerful would ps4 be with a gtx680 inside.