-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
RUMOR: NX more powerful than PS4, Splatoon/Mario Maker ports in development
- Thread starter Spyder_Monkey
- Start date
- Status
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Yeah cause Bethesda, Rockstar, EA ect... Are all lining up to make 3ds games. Wait 3ds gets jack shit game wise from Western devs.
family_guy
Member
This is Nintendo we're talking about though. You'll pay $399 for a PS4 level console with a 64GB or smaller HDD.
DownGrader
Member
But carts are obviously not the reason for that. Western devs are just indifferent to handhelds in general.
James Scott
Banned
There's a lot of cost saving benefits for ditching the disc drive. Lowering licensed costs won't be much of an issue since they usually don't get many 3rd parties (in case the system doesn't work out) and the money saved on hardware sales would make up for it somewhat
Skittzo0413
Member
I definitely agree that they greatly overwhelmed consumers with that. Hopefully this talk about "moving away from" the Wii and Wii U sort of indicates that they'll be trying to consolidate all the controllers, maybe into one gamepad (with a screen please!) with some interchangeable buttons. Or who knows, maybe that interchangeable button patent was more concerned with the handheld.
But I'm sort of imagining the console itself having the bulk of these modular features rather than the controllers. It would take perfect marketing but I think it could be a fairly good product, and selling all of the modular components would net Nintendo a nice extra revenue.
When has Nintendo ever priced a system that high? Even the WiiU with it's overly expensive gamepad was 299 and had 32GB of flash memory 4 years ago.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
And you're overlooking that many Western publishers, which are what really matter to console sales these days, seem to actively dislike Nintendo and not give a crap about supporting them period.
Handheld is a different matter as those are mostly Japanese devs, and the market for the genres they're focusing on is mostly on portable these days.
If Nintendo wants western third party support they have to make it cheap and easy to port their games from PS4/X1 to NX. Even if they do that, many like EA probably won't bother much unless NX becomes a huge hit. If they have any kind of barrier with porting cost or effort required we'll see Wii U levels of support from Western AAA publishers.
Personally, I couldn't give a shit less as I have a PS4 and X1. An NX will, like the past several Nintendo consoles, just be for Nintendo games. Which is the real issue Nintendo has with third party support--too much of their base is either like me and buys it as a secondary platform, or are their diehard fans who only like their games and don't like shooters, sports sims, racing sims, GTA/AssCreed type games etc.
Noticeably more powerful CPU has never been questioned however. We are talking exclusively about the GPU here. As far as that goes all that has been questioned is the claim that its a Polaris GPU with performance twice that of PS4s GPU. There is a lot of room between 2x PS4 GPU and weaker than PS4 GPU.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
The 32GB console was $350 (included Nintendoland).
The 4GB basic was $299.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/09/13/wii-u-price-release-date-announced
Nintendo can't use SD cards for this purpose, though. (And phones have generally been moving away from expandable storage.) They'll need to use the type of ROM in 3DS cards, and that will be several times as expensive as an SD card. Even with all of the calculations in that post from earlier, we're looking a $1 more for a 4GB cartridge compared to a 25GB disc. That could jump much higher for 16, 32, 64, and even 128GB cards. It also looked like the shared library was a major factor in his calculations. Third-parties will not be putting many games on the handheld, so they won't care about that. This basically is only worth it if NX is a super weak, super cheap Nintendo box where most games are under 16GB.
How dare you saying that? That would mean having reasonable expectations of a PS4+ by not that much would be not stupid, and we all know that's not possible, because it's fucking Nintendo. How dare you, dude? How cute of you, now you're going to tell me that the world is not made by black and white, but there are tons of shades of grey...OH, THE UTOPIA!
I bought my WiiU at launch for 369, including Classic Pro controller and ZombiU.
And even then, the bump in storrage space after 4 years would most likely more than double for the same cost.
Samsung and Android have moved back after having initially moved away. The question of SD cards is... a lot more complex though.
Read Beril's post. ROM is cheaper, not more expensive.
Why would you assume that the ROM would be more expensive than SD flash? Any logic conclusion would be that it's the other way around
Preprogrammed, unerasable ROM is simply more efficient than flash. It's not used in large quantities very often outside of game carts though for its obvious limitations though
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
They haven't put out a madden since 2011. That Sims game is from then too.
The only real 3d party games we get on a regular basis is the Lego stuff not counting shovelware. Let's be real here.
*had*
You're twisting words and working in absolutes.
Also confirmation bias.
Welcome to GAF lol
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Your mind works in mysterious ways.
DownGrader
Member
By the way, what happened to Western 3DS support? It seems like Western developers put some games during the worst period imaginable, then moved out when 3DS actually started to perform great. Did they expect DS-like success from the beginning? (Haven't DS struggled before DS lite too?)
UnemployedVillain
Member
EL OH EL
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
If we are living in that fantasy world then the Wii U had a ton of Western Support cause you know it got a bunch of Launch Window ports of Mass Effect, Batman, NFS:MW ect...
*rolls eyes*
$2.50 difference was a bom estimate but logistics could reduce much further if case sizes shrink too. So rather than shipping in the old standard DVD/Bluray sized boxes they could ship in DS/3DS sized cases and slash crating and shipping costs even further. This also brings more potential savings when buying in at retail shelf space, stock buybacks, destruction/recycling costs, etc.
Card media is a cost that would add up for 3rd parties though so Nintendo needs probably to eat some of the difference upfront, particularly at 16GB+ capacities. As time goes on this will be less of an issue though due to economies of scale and the ongoing digital transition. And it futureproofs the NX ecosystem for any handheld support versus going with Bluray or UHD.
More likely $299 for a PS4 level console with 64GB of flash and the ability to plug in an off the shelf external HDD/SSD. Nintendo's done well offloading storage concerns to the user and embracing open media standards so I doubt that's changing. The SCD may be their own boutique solution here too.
Bony Manifesto
Member
I was always under the impression that Nintendo ditched mask ROM chips for the 3DS (and the higher capacity DS cards) in favour of EEPROM.
You are fighting a losing battle.
You're twisting words and working in absolutes.
Also confirmation bias.
I serve AzaK, one of my Gods with reasonable, unbiased, rational, non-puerile mind, along his other followers, and if he's convinced that Emily words have that meaning (which is so clear to me as well because it's the only possible meaning), who are you and all the others with your same idea to say we are wrong? How can you be so childish? Do you really believe the world is made of different colors and not absolutes? Puah! If a thing is not the best ever, it's obviously the worst ever, there is no middle ground. Where did you learn stuff about the world, Cleveland? If we say it's gonna be that way, it's just UNCONCEIVABLE it goes in another way! Do you really believe we, serving the Gods Of Nintendo Zealous Overdisappointment (or, shorter, G.O.N.Z.O.) can be...WRONG?!? AHAHAHAH. You small, minuscle brain!
That's a bit of a stretch
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Not sure. This thing cannot sell for more than $299. Otherwise it's DOA. So, having said that, and if there is a relatively costly controller in it again, I wouldn't expect it to be much more powerful than a PS4. Certainly not noticeably powerful.
It's not that much of a stretch. It's exactly what I was saying before 10k's rumours. And now his sources have been proven false, I'm back to thinking that again.
You're twisting words and working in absolutes.
Also confirmation bias.
Hey, better to make the safe assumption, right?
Besides, I admit that it was just the way that I decided to take it. She didn't specify which power level was wrong, so I just assume all of the ones mentioned. I'm not talking about the CPU though; I still believe LCGeek there. That just doesn't say anything about the rest of the system other than that it should be faster than XBone.Edit: Holy shit, I can't even state my interpretation of something without getting dogpiled on here. :/
Okay, good points. However, those points work against the whole idea of dropping HDDs, don't they? Besides that, how can they tie DLC to an account if it can be stored on the card? Unless you want another situation like the XBone DRM, I don't think that this idea of dropping storage by just using carts is going to work very well.
Skittzo0413
Member
The problem with people leaking specs or power levels at this stage is that all of that can still change before the system is released, like what happened with the Wii U. So spec or power leaks before the system is released might be entertaining to discuss, but overall it's pretty pointless.
I'd definitely prefer info about the console's special features or games, though I'm not sure I honestly want much of that leaked to ruin the surprise. Very fun to speculate about though!
Advantages to dropping BR in favor of cards:
No bulky disc drive
> cheaper console (cost of drive)
> smaller console
>> cheaper console due to cheaper stocking and shipping
> more reliable console
>> no moving parts
>> better ventilation due to less cramped while still smaller
> more quiet console
>> no moving parts
>> more passive cooling
> more energy efficient console
>> cheaper console
Smaller packaging
> cheaper stocking
> cheaper shipping
> cheaper packaging
> less shelfspace
Cards
> faster loadtimes
> possibillity to go shared library between handheld and home console
> faster swappable
> No need for installs
>> cheaper console due to less internal storage needed
> Multiple card slots possible
Anything else?
(added some suggestions)
No bulky disc drive
> cheaper console (cost of drive)
> smaller console
>> cheaper console due to cheaper stocking and shipping
> more reliable console
>> no moving parts
>> better ventilation due to less cramped while still smaller
> more quiet console
>> no moving parts
>> more passive cooling
> more energy efficient console
>> cheaper console
Smaller packaging
> cheaper stocking
> cheaper shipping
> cheaper packaging
> less shelfspace
Cards
> faster loadtimes
> possibillity to go shared library between handheld and home console
> faster swappable
> No need for installs
>> cheaper console due to less internal storage needed
> Multiple card slots possible
Anything else?
(added some suggestions)
Also, I don't believe at all that 3DS's Western third party support heavily decreased entirely due to cartridges cost. That would mean oversimplifying reality, trying to reduce this kind of phenomenon to just one, single factor. The so called "It's Lupus!" Syndrome.
I believe it's a mix of
- "core" offering from Western third party studios not selling as much as they hoped (that's why licensed games / Lego / other stuff keeps on getting released)
- some lack of interest from the start for some of them, which "justified" their further abandonment of the platform (see: FIFA Legacy Edition)
- growth of mobile erasing space and resources for Western games on handhelds
- 3DS unable to get easy ports of Western third party games (probably one of the main factors, thinking about it)
- PS4 and One releases and sales not helping the handheld's case either
Yeah, I don't thin the cart costs played a role at all. If it did, a very, very small one
I believe it's a mix of
- "core" offering from Western third party studios not selling as much as they hoped (that's why licensed games / Lego / other stuff keeps on getting released)
- some lack of interest from the start for some of them, which "justified" their further abandonment of the platform (see: FIFA Legacy Edition)
- growth of mobile erasing space and resources for Western games on handhelds
- 3DS unable to get easy ports of Western third party games (probably one of the main factors, thinking about it)
- PS4 and One releases and sales not helping the handheld's case either
Yeah, I don't thin the cart costs played a role at all. If it did, a very, very small one
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
The NX is a mistake, it's nothing but trash.
You could potentially take advantage of the extra space to allow users to have multiple cards plugged in at a time.
I wouldn't expect anything less.
But really what's the latest news? It's now looking like early reports were wrong and the latest rumor is putting it weaker than og ps4?
3 years is a long time. Ditching backwards compatibility and smarter design of their controller is going to be a huge improvement in managing their costs over the Wii U production.
Also releasing more first party games at launch can mitigate them selling the hardware at cost if need be.
LegendofLex
Member
I'd prefer a more robust onboard storage solution, personally.
The answer to the third-party equation will always be "how much money can we make by releasing our games on NX?" If the answer is "not much," that's what the third-party lineup will look like. If the answer is "tons!", same thing.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
This is true.
The gatcha is they ALREADY don't want to support Nintendo. Now you are gonna add in another layer of higher priced media compared to the competition?
Cards can store similar amounts of data these days, right?
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Don't get me wrong, I don't think it'll be WEAK, but I think it'll be a more efficient PS4 at best now. None of this 'noticeably more powerful' stuff, or PS4K level specs.
Emily Rodgers said that her sources close to Nintendo said that 10k's sources had the GPU wrong, the gimmick wrong (gamepad) and that the "power" was not correct. But that the NX still had "good" specs.
After that, 10k quoted his source (on the GPU) literally (which he failed to mention from the start) and that said that the GPU would be a mix of polaris and fiji. So possibly this is where Emily's sources told her the info (of polaris) was wrong.
Skittzo0413
Member
This, plus potential for installing/downloading patches/DLC onto the cards. I don't know how feasible that is using Nintendo's current ROM solutions though.
Ideally no need for game installs from discs
I'll think of more I bet.
Edit: While we're at it, let's list the cons:
-Carts are orders of magnitude more expensive than discs, though way cheaper than they used to be
--Extra cost may turn off third parties
-No potential for DVD/BR playback (not that that would happen anyway)
Any more?
- Status