Alpha Phoenix
Member
Says the studio who has yet to make a game with > 80 on Metacritic.
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The Chinese Room accuses CD Projekt Red of making sexist games
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There is a quest involving a gay character which emphasizes how much of a problem it is to be gay in the Witcher world. The hunter in said quest lives in exile because he got caught. He labels himself a freak and Geralt sympathises with him because he is usally seen as a freak as well. That being said I wouldn't have minded if they had explored that topic further.
Not relevant to this discussion at all.
The Witcher never pretended to be set in an authentic medieval society. That world is full of anachronisms and if their scholars can have a fairly good grasp on modern sciences (even genetic engineering), it really shouldn't have to obey by any of our outdated rules.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
What does this have to do with anything?
While I like your post, I think you're confusing Keira with Yennefer
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
When people feel threatened and shamed and can't find a rebuttal where they win they attack the man and not the argument.
Did you actually play the game though? The first questline in the entire game has you meeting a gay character in the starting region, and Geralt even has the ability to express his acceptance. And he's not even the only such character....
NoblesseOblige
Banned
You're free to ignore it if it bothers you so much.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
My take.
- this isn't a claim that should be thrown around flippantly with a smart ass comment.
- if you throw out this claim, you better put in the effort to back it up
- this is not a topic that should be started on Twitter of all places. The medium doesn't allow enough characters to actually back up any claims
- especially from a game company talking about another game company.
- this isn't a claim that should be thrown around flippantly with a smart ass comment.
- if you throw out this claim, you better put in the effort to back it up
- this is not a topic that should be started on Twitter of all places. The medium doesn't allow enough characters to actually back up any claims
- especially from a game company talking about another game company.
Demoskinos
Member
Kind of a pathetic remark. CD Projekt Red has been good about responding to criticism since the first witcher game on how they implement their female characters and sex in general. If one image of an attractive woman= sexist to Chinese Room then well.. I cannot take them seriously at all.
I think everyone has made all the witty comments possible towards The Chinese Room.
Cabbagehead
Member
Yeah i would hope so. It's a video game not a social experiment.
Are people aware that this is essentially a replication of an image from the original Cyberpunk 2020 role-playing game from the '90s?
Which I think gives it a bit more context. I didn't like the trailer because it felt a bit I dunno, off, with heavily armoured guy with somewhat phallic gun pointed at the head of a scantily-clad woman, but that's more cheap/lazy than sexist in a more painful way.
I think the real problem here is that CP2077 has so little imagery released and this image is one of the few that's actually memorable. Hopefully in the game CDPR don't rely on this kind of image - it's set in the late 21st century, not late middle ages, so one hopes they also avoid the Witcher's focus on sexual politics too.
Which I think gives it a bit more context. I didn't like the trailer because it felt a bit I dunno, off, with heavily armoured guy with somewhat phallic gun pointed at the head of a scantily-clad woman, but that's more cheap/lazy than sexist in a more painful way.
I think the real problem here is that CP2077 has so little imagery released and this image is one of the few that's actually memorable. Hopefully in the game CDPR don't rely on this kind of image - it's set in the late 21st century, not late middle ages, so one hopes they also avoid the Witcher's focus on sexual politics too.
Oh ok then, pack it up boys. Case settled. SG-17 has declared it once and for all. ¬_¬.
Without spoiling the show for some. You have both sexes being treated horribly. You have both sexes objectified. You have the Blacksmiths son shirtless with a perfect body practicing with a sword. The brothel which also contains homosexuals, characters that are bi.
You have numerous men stripped. You have mutilations of men in many ways. You have women using their sexuality for personal gain. A man who's practically a-sexual. As well as the usual accusations female sexual objectification and raping of female characters that immediately makes any show to use rape in a story as "sexist".
I have never heard when a male gets raped, or gets his organs mutilated as this show is sexist towards men. Do you know why? Cause male characters can be treated like shit and that's acceptable.
Zeouterlimits
Member
I'm still confused by how blasé the criticism is communicated.
Like, it's almost a random tweet, put out on the studio account, not mentioning which person it was, etc.
That's what is really odd about this to me.
Like, it's almost a random tweet, put out on the studio account, not mentioning which person it was, etc.
That's what is really odd about this to me.
Yeah, that really is a pathetic rebuttal.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Of course most of the replies to the tweet are from gamergate.
Way to kinda prove their point.
Way to kinda prove their point.
names2hard4you
Member
You just made my morning LOL.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
White men aren't an oppressed class in society.
Gratuitous sexual violence for the sake of gratuitous sexual violence is sexist.
Edit: Violence isn't something to praise in any situation, but violence against men doesn't have the same cultural baggage as violence against women.
AuthenticM
Member
Regardless if CDPR's games are sexist or not, here's my question:
Why would The Chinese Room want to start shit with another developer?
Why would The Chinese Room want to start shit with another developer?
Alpha Phoenix
Member
FWIW, I know CDPR don't exactly have the best reputation when it comes to representation in their games. But for a studio to up and call another's project 'sexist' based on an obscure teaser image is kind of unprofessional.
User 73706
Banned
Reposting from the last page:
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Why wouldn't a studio want to sell 40 million copies?
Yeah, this. The whole "it was a different time" argument just falls into the same bucket as the "werewolves would change Victorian England less than black people being given rights" fallacy:
I mean sure, it's based on medieval folklore except now people are using magic to modify the human genome, but hey, throwing in some positive representation? It's not the stone ages!
Hitokiri03
Member
Seems very unprofessional thing to do to say the least.
Considering this is a game company account.
Considering this is a game company account.
It's very strange that it comes from their official company account. Does it reflect the opinion of the entire team?
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Are you referencing this image?
Because it's a poor replication if you are. The only similarities between the two is they are women in lingerie. Heck, the drawn woman is meant to be a blonde instead of a brunette even. In fact I think the woman in the drawing is shown elsewhere in the trailer if I recall correctly.
Edit: yup she is:
I guess 1 scantily clad woman throwback wasn't enough.
Alpha Phoenix
Member
oh yes, of course, I can ignore it. I'm just expressing my opinion and besides, I think that I should say something so they know that at least not everyone agrees with them.
Cabbagehead
Member
Yeah but does that serve the story? throwing in positive representation is not what you want. What we need is for it to be a non noticeable thing and be apart of the norm within that story and not be paraded around. Just to have it.
The Jackdog
Member
yeah wtf? have they been harboring some ill will towards them or something?
Audioboxer
Member
Of course it is, I know many gaming friends of all walks of life who enjoy The Witcher series.
Because it's not possible. You have a really strange view of the world if you think something in the entertainment industry can appeal to everyone.
PsihoPerihelion
Member
I'm not the biggest fan of CDPR but even I think this is a stupid remark. The world of the game is pretty sexist, but that doesn't mean the developer is. Context is king.
They have to find a way to be relevant, don't they?
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
I'd like to think we've come a long way in the past ~20 years, but maybe the '90s are only just coming to Poland?
SunBroDave
Member
Glad I didn't pick up the PC version of Rapture. Fuck off Chinese Room.
User 73706
Banned
I love how when company accounts make sly jabs at MLG pros, rival game companies, introduce Gunnery Sergeant Baldwhites McBuzzkill as the protag of Space Raiders 4, etc. it's "wow getrekt 420 quickscope" and a good time is had by all, but the second a company injects """politics""" into the situation people try and place everything under an electron microscope to make sure that they keep their SJW agendas out of muh gaming.
What does not having made a game over 80 on metacritic have to do with that though? Would you have posted that if it was Naughty Dog who tweeted that?
It was a stupid thing to post on the companies twitter account but man all these "lol but you make shitty games" posts are just as stupid.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Your using the ideological lens of identity politics which is flawed. What you define as gratuitous sexual violence is sexist doesn't mean the creators of the show tended it to be so.
I have no interest in debating with someone who is using the progressive stack on oppression to define whats sexist and whats not.
SunBroDave
Member
I think the posts about scores are meant to imply that Chinese Room is just "picking on the top dog"
Shake Appeal
Member
1. I love The Witcher. I've loved these games since the first one (which I bought and played at launch), and I'm currently playing through The Witcher 3 and savoring every moment. It's fantastic.
2. I think the world The Witcher depicts is a deeply patriarchal and misogynistic one, which accords with what we know about both medieval and modern society. This is okay. Depiction of patriarchal and misogynistic societies is not only (mostly, I guess; it's complicated) unproblematic, it's kind of the norm. The Witcher does cast a critical eye at times over some of these problematic aspects, and it certainly makes it clear that the world of The Witcher is a very, very bad place to be a woman.
3. Beyond what it depicts as its milieu, yes, The Witcher is a sexist game. It has an extremely and aggressively male gaze. It is beyond obvious that the people making it are heterosexual, cisgender men who are largely unthinking about the blinkers of their (majority) perspective. For example, it features consequence-free, uncritical and deliberately titillating prostitution that has no gameplay or plot value, and which does almost nothing to examine the status and conditions of medieval prostitutes (which were abysmal). Many, many women in the game are presented salaciously for reasons that have nothing to do with plot, characterization or gameplay. We're talking about game developers that turned (largely consequence-free, uncritical) sexual encounters into collectible cards in the first game. Yes, they've moved past that, but the game is still jam-packed with subtle sexism that many players won't even notice or consider, so inured are they to sexism and their sexist perspective.
4. The marketing of The Witcher games has consistently leaned on sexist, male-gaze tropes to draw in its (overwhelmingly heterosexual, cisgender, male) audience. Looks like Cyberpunk will, too! This isn't necessarily CDProjekt's fault, but it is tacky and lame.
5. All of this is pretty standard for the games industry and for the world we live in in 2016. I don't think The Witcher 3 is much worse in these respects than most games or other popular art. And it's actually smarter and more nuanced about women and gender and sex than many other videogames and its own source material. Admittedly, that is a very, very low bar to clear. It still sort of sucks at those things. We're making progress, though.
2. I think the world The Witcher depicts is a deeply patriarchal and misogynistic one, which accords with what we know about both medieval and modern society. This is okay. Depiction of patriarchal and misogynistic societies is not only (mostly, I guess; it's complicated) unproblematic, it's kind of the norm. The Witcher does cast a critical eye at times over some of these problematic aspects, and it certainly makes it clear that the world of The Witcher is a very, very bad place to be a woman.
3. Beyond what it depicts as its milieu, yes, The Witcher is a sexist game. It has an extremely and aggressively male gaze. It is beyond obvious that the people making it are heterosexual, cisgender men who are largely unthinking about the blinkers of their (majority) perspective. For example, it features consequence-free, uncritical and deliberately titillating prostitution that has no gameplay or plot value, and which does almost nothing to examine the status and conditions of medieval prostitutes (which were abysmal). Many, many women in the game are presented salaciously for reasons that have nothing to do with plot, characterization or gameplay. We're talking about game developers that turned (largely consequence-free, uncritical) sexual encounters into collectible cards in the first game. Yes, they've moved past that, but the game is still jam-packed with subtle sexism that many players won't even notice or consider, so inured are they to sexism and their sexist perspective.
4. The marketing of The Witcher games has consistently leaned on sexist, male-gaze tropes to draw in its (overwhelmingly heterosexual, cisgender, male) audience. Looks like Cyberpunk will, too! This isn't necessarily CDProjekt's fault, but it is tacky and lame.
5. All of this is pretty standard for the games industry and for the world we live in in 2016. I don't think The Witcher 3 is much worse in these respects than most games or other popular art. And it's actually smarter and more nuanced about women and gender and sex than many other videogames and its own source material. Admittedly, that is a very, very low bar to clear. It still sort of sucks at those things. We're making progress, though.
Cheat Code
Member
Jessica Curry isn't exactly the best PR person in the world. You don't get far attacking the publisher who funded your game, and now random other developers.
Audioboxer
Member
So basically when said company jibe fits an agenda you are okay with then it's okay, but if it's something you aren't happy about then it's not?
Case in point is when a company or mainstream figure on social media you have to have the guts to backup shit flinging when you do it or you'll be dragged over the coals. So far TCR have done nothing to follow up their one liner.
Yeah, that's not what I said at all but you just keep on building your strawmen army
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Really bad argument. I want to see the guy from DX in assless chaps and not wearing a shirt with a gigantic bulge now.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Then it's the shittiest and laziest way to do it. And put your name on the claim. Not the game company account.
It was a lazy smart ass snipe that shouldn't be thrown around lightly.
Alpha Phoenix
Member
I take that back. But my point stands: accusing a fellow studio of sexism based on obscure material is completely unprofessional and irresponsible.
I do honestly wonder if that reflects the entire company's PR? I highly doubt it. Someone must have crossed a line there.
Which has what to do with the statement?
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