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[Woo-Fu]

"Modern" isn't a technical term, is it?

 

[Chittagong]

I love how the new Nintendo console cycle is always the same. Speculation of high performance, day dreams of beating PS and Xbox perf, and finally the reality of Nintendo doing something weird and cheap instead. That said, going head to head with a X86 always seemed like a bad idea.

 

[Possumowner]

Yay wild rumour and speculation.These threads cheer me up for the day.So more in power towards Xbox one,but not directly competing with Ps4 Neo...I see..."eats more salt"

 

[cyberheater]

Then why bother making another Nintendo is doomed post? They've always been doomed since their Hanafuda card days..

Then why bother defending the cartridges rumour?

 

[MuchoMalo]

So, I just want to point out a couple of things here, since I still don't have total confidence in Emily. I think she's received mostly accurate info (though whoever told her where NX and Xbox Next are being fabbed most likely lied), but I also think that she may have thrown some uninformed assumptions in there.

After speaking to seven different people this week, I can say with confidence that this is false. NX is not using x86 architecture like PlayStation 4 and Xbox One. The NX has special, custom-made chips and the overall design of the hardware is very modern. The chips are industry leading because they are very modern chips, but having modern chips doesn’t necessarily mean Nintendo is aiming to create the most powerful hardware on the market.

Looks pretty good. Talking about the CPU. Also, fun fact: 10k gave the exact same comment about it not using x86 last week, right down to not saying what it's actually using.

Furthermore, any NX rumors on “Polaris chips” and “Polaris architecture” are all wacky. There’s a good reason why those rumors are wacky.

Okay, now we're on to the GPU. Okay, so why is it wacky?

In terms of raw power, numerous sources tell me that NX is much closer to Xbox One than PlayStation 4. Even that might be stretching it a tiny bit. Anyone who is claiming that NX is “two times the power of PS4 GPU” is being misled by their sources. Based on what I’ve heard, I don’t believe the NX will compete directly with PS4 (Neo) / PS4K in raw power.

So... Polaris is wacky because NX is weaker than PS4? What? Does she not know what Polaris is? If NX's GPU is around Xbone power, a cut-down Polaris GPU would mean that its power consumption overall would be under 40W, just like Wii and Wii U. But, then the stretching it part makes it seem like it might be much weaker than even Xbone, which would point to a mobile chipset... Seriously, why is it so hard for her to just say what she means without being vague as hell?

I will add that we did hear previously that Wii U SDKs were used for early development, so it might be considerably weaker than Xbone and using a mobile chipset, like Tegra X1.

There will be plenty of debates over the NX’s specs because it’s not simple to directly compare two apples (with x86 architecture) to an orange (that doesn’t use x86 architecture). But everything that I’ve heard (so far) indicates that NX isn’t going to blow away any of the consoles on the market today…except for Wii U.

This is just an all-around mess. Somehow, she doesn't even seem to realize that GPU is the main determining factor when talking about power in a console unless the CPU is a major bottleneck, and those are easy to compare. She seems to have issues telling the difference between CPUs and GPUs.

My point is, what she heard is most likely true, but it should still be taken with a grain of salt. She's thrown in a few of her assumptions by the looks of it, and she still seems to be avoiding committing to anything other than it not being x86. I wish I could ask her a few specific questions to get some clarification, but I don't feel like making a twitter account just for that. Also, why can't we have insiders who actually understand the technical side of things well enough to avoid this kind of confusion?

Disclaimer: I don't like Emily Rogers at all. She's extremely arrogant and annoying, and I really wish that she had never managed to get public attention.

 

[Zil33184]

Either vendor (AMD or NVIDIA) has yet to confirm the NX as part of their product line.

AMD's Q1 earnings call revealed three new semi-custom SOCs with one ramping up in the second half of the year for a 2016 release, and the other two for 2017.

 

[Davey Cakes]

I love how the new Nintendo console cycle is always the same. Speculation of high performance, day dreams of beating PS and Xbox perf, and finally the reality of Nintendo doing something weird and cheap instead. That said, going head to head with a X86 always seemed like a bad idea.

If rumors of a "unified platform" end up being true, at least to some degree, then this time it actually makes sense that the console is only modestly powerful. The handheld can get the bigger bump and the two sort of "meet in the middle."

If that's what it takes for Nintendo to efficiently pump out content across two or more form factors then maybe it's for the best. And that ease of development could be appealing to third parties too, if we're talking a situation of easy porting.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Am I the only person here who thinks they'll just use yet another iteration of Gekko?

 

[KrawlMan]

Yay wild rumour and speculation.These threads cheer me up for the day.So more in power towards Xbox one,but not directly competing with Ps4 Neo...I see..."eats more salt"

Why do people buy into these Emily Rogers rumors so hard? Does she have some flawless record for leaks?

 

[MuchoMalo]

Am I the only person here who thinks they'll just use yet another iteration of Gekko?

Yes. Wii U more than tapped that out.

 

[Nanashrew]

So, I just want to point out a couple of things here, since I still don't have total confidence in Emily. I think she's received mostly accurate info (though whoever told her where NX and Xbox Next are being fabbed most likely lied), but I also think that she may have thrown some uninformed assumptions in there.



Looks pretty good. Talking about the CPU. Also, fun fact: 10k gave the exact same comment about it not using x86 last week, right down to not saying what it's actually using.



Okay, now we're on to the GPU. Okay, so why is it wacky?



So... Polaris is wacky because NX is weaker than PS4? What? Does she not know what Polaris is? If NX's GPU is around Xbone power, a cut-down Polaris GPU would mean that its power consumption overall would be under 40W, just like Wii and Wii U. But, then the stretching it part makes it seem like it might be much weaker than even Xbone, which would point to a mobile chipset... Seriously, why is it so hard for her to just say what she means without being vague as hell?

I will add that we did hear previously that Wii U SDKs were used for early development, so it might be considerably weaker than Xbone and using a mobile chipset, like Tegra X1.



This is just an all-around mess. Somehow, she doesn't even seem to realize that GPU is the main determining factor when talking about power in a console unless the CPU is a major bottleneck, and those are easy to compare. She seems to have issues telling the difference between CPUs and GPUs.

My point is, what she heard is most likely true, but it should still be taken with a grain of salt. She's thrown in a few of her assumptions by the looks of it, and she still seems to be avoiding committing to anything other than it not being x86. I wish I could ask her a few specific questions to get some clarification, but I don't feel like making a twitter account just for that. Also, why can't we have insiders who actually understand the technical side of things well enough to avoid this kind of confusion?

I think most technical people don't care to invest in leaks and rumors. LCgeek is the only one and they've mostly retired from that with the exception of NX and the CPU.

 

[Ocarina_117]

If the architecture is different to PS4/XONE and their using a different type of CPU wouldn't it be difficult to compare the consoles directly?

 

[Chittagong]

If rumors of a "unified platform" end up being true, at least to some degree, then this time it actually makes sense that the console is only modestly powerful. The handheld can get the bigger bump and the two sort of "meet in the middle."

If that's what it takes for Nintendo to efficiently pump out content across two or more form factors then maybe it's for the best. And that ease of development could be appealing to third parties too, if we're talking a situation of easy porting.

I agree with this, it'd be the smartest way for them to go. I think porting from the X86 twins will be very hard though, especially given that Nintendo's developer tools and documentation always tend to be a bit shit.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

If you only care about specs and realistic-looking explosions, then yeah, probably.

Because specs have no affect on the platform being able to receive 90% of games, Japanese and Western, that will be released on its competitors right?

 

[anothertech]

Of course it won't be X86. It's going to be NX86... In other words, the worlds first commercial quantum computing game device!!1!1!!

It only needs Xbone power hardware to run billions of times faster than the Xbone and psNeo combined with quantum compute! Cause that's how it works!

Believe!!

 

[Peterc]

Could someone tell me if emily is verified in the past

 

[Nanashrew]

Could someone tell me if emily is verified in the past

People like to bring up her really old stuff to discredit her but she's gotten much better sources since then and has been right more than wrong now. She leaked the shared wallets, Miiverse on 3DS, and many other things.

 

[beril]

This now seems to be the most likely scenario. Because even if it's not x86 there's no possible way they're still going with PowerPC.

never say never. It could be that IBM is missing dat console revenue and gave them a really good deal on a powerful custom designed PPC chip. Seems about as likely as the reports of nvidia handing them tegra chips at a loss

 

[Peterc]

People like to bring up her really old stuff to discredit her but she's gotten much better sources since then and has been right more than wrong now. She leaked the shared wallets, Miiverse on 3DS, and many other things.

Ok she's probably true then. But like i said before. Wouldn't it be a console on the go and you can add additional boxes at home or just one to mKe it on par with ps4k?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Am I the only person here who thinks they'll just use yet another iteration of Gekko?

If you want a faster PPC design, the PA-Semi design released before they got bought by Apple was ahead of Gekko, and if Nintendo really wanted to spend money in a 14 nm die shrink, redesign to enable higher clocks, and for the console version a spec bump of the current Gekko they could go a lot farther than the Wii U: bump the clock to 2-2.4 GHz, increase and equalise the caches of the cores, and add another core would get you quite a lot more performance than the Wii U CPU setup.

 

[Aostia]

I cant believe people felt for those top notch rumors. It was pretty clear from iwata comments about architecture and OS mutuated by the wiiu one and shared with the portable environment that they were going the wii ruote with the nx home console.

 

[Rodin]

I kind of took that comparison as a paper statement instead of necessarily real world performance.

I mean the OP even says "Even that might be stretching it a tiny bit."

I'm not imagining something that actually runs something like Assassin's Creed Unity, as opposed to something that runs Dynasty Warriors 9 while being above the Wii U.

This doesn't make sense and it's not how it works anyway.

Yeah. I'm envisioning a system that's set up to make their burden as small as possible as opposed to being ideal for third parties or necessarily the consumer.

They've expressed a desire to build one game for both a handheld and a console multiple times if we go back in their investor reports and interviews.

They don't have to necessarily start development on the home, which could cause some trouble on the cpu side when scaling down for the portable. They could simply start the game on the handheld and then add all the bells and whistles on the home version. If the hh is around wii u power, it's more than enough to make a game that can be enjoyed on a home console. This for a good 80% of the line up anyway, but i fully expect each form factor to retain some exclusives, so Pokémon can be tailor made for the portable and the next Zelda and Xeno don't have to worry about how they use the home CPU.

I cant believe people felt for those top notch rumors. It was pretty clear from iwata comments about architecture and OS mutuated by the wiiu one and shared with the portable environment that they were going the wii ruote with the nx home console.

There is a difference between not believing a "top notch" scenario and taking this vague stuff as gospel.

 

[MuchoMalo]

People like to bring up her really old stuff to discredit her but she's gotten much better sources since then and has been right more than wrong now. She leaked the shared wallets, Miiverse on 3DS, and many other things.

The catch is that, for most of the stuff she gets right, she's not the first to report it even though she often gets credited for it. Paper Mario U was rumored by someone else last year, and she was far from the first to say that Zelda would be ported. I think that E3 will be a big test for her, with the other Zelda rumors and Mother 3. Meanwhile, June's investor meeting will make or break 10k.

I cant believe people felt for those top notch rumors. It was pretty clear from iwata comments about architecture and OS mutuated by the wiiu one and shared with the portable environment that they were going the wii ruote with the nx home console.

This isn't suggesting the Wii route at all. In fact, it debunks that. There is nothing modern about an overclocked Wii U.

 

[jonno394]

The sooner the NX is revealed, the sooner all these rumours and speculating can be put to rest (I hope).

I for one never expected the NX to "blow away" its rivals, just to be competitive and match them. As long as ports of third party games are possible, then there is no problem here imo. With the PS4K, the games will have to run on the PS4 and the higher spec console (apparently), so if games are running on the PS4 and XBO still, there's no real issue.

Obviously, the elephant in the room is whether or not 3rd Party pubs will actually want to put said games on the NX.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

since when using ARM instead x86 means a detriment for 3rd parties?

It's more than that. Even if migrating a game from x86 to ARM isn't that big of a deal, I may asume this solo run of Nintendo will have other impacts as well, .e.g. in regard to memory, HDD and Blu-Ray support.

So, basically, this approach doesn't make NX editions of 3rd party games impossible, but developers still have to put additional resources into it. Which means costs. And that's not good, not if the publishers are already uncertain about the new platform's success.

Well, we'll see about that of course. As I said in another thread, maybe Nintendo just had to do it to be able to make all NX games run on all NX platforms (mobile, home console, and whatever else). And I for one would totally buy an extremely powerful (10-20x Vita power) Nintendo handheld with a proper screen.

 

[Milly Osworth]

This thing better be cheap. To get a completely games library you need to buy a PS4/Neo and this.

 

[Memorabilia]

This has the feel of insta-fail if it's really not x86. I hope I'm wrong, but this is a major buzz kill for me personally.

 

[The_Lump]

I'm calling it. Her source is referring to NX handheld. It's not going to blow consoles away, and it's not Polaris......cos it's using Tegra as per the other rumour

This has the feel of insta-fail if it's really not x86. I hope I'm wrong, but this is a major buzz kill for me personally.

Jokes aside, x86 isn't as important as seem to think.

 

[Rodin]

This has the feel of insta-fail if it's really not x86. I hope I'm wrong, but this is a major buzz kill for me personally.

You are. Read this thread (and no, not the vague nintendoomed posts).

I'm calling it. Her source is referring to NX handheld. It's not going to blow consoles away, and it's not Polaris......cos it's using Tegra as per the other rumour

The portable won't be close to the xbox one at all. Maybe in 5 years.

Answering this not because i didn't get your joke but because some people actually believe that's going to be the case.

 

[Nanashrew]

Ok she's probably true then. But like i said before. Wouldn't it be a console on the go and you can add additional boxes at home or just one to mKe it on par with ps4k?

I don't think it would be anything like a hybrid. But the SCD's are meant to be a local cloud device with additional chips for more computational power. It would plug straight into the home console, but also talks of improving things for other devices over the air like a handheld or something else when playing their software.

The catch is that, for most of the stuff she gets right, she's not the first to report it even though she often gets credited for it. Paper Mario U was rumored by someone else last year, and she was far from the first to say that Zelda would be ported. I think that E3 will be a big test for her, with the other Zelda rumors and Mother 3. Meanwhile, June's investor meeting will make or break 10k.

Actually, new rumors from from NWR and others brought up to Emily, that Mother 3 is now looking shaky for E3 because of Nintendo's decision to go all in with Zelda. It could very well get it's own Direct.

So it's a little up in the air now for when, but all of them do say that there is a localized script within the company. I'm still hoping for E3 though, but I would be okay with a full dedicated Direct for Mother 3 too.

 

[beril]

This has the feel of insta-fail if it's really not x86. I hope I'm wrong, but this is a major buzz kill for me personally.

Were you looking forward to writing assembler code for it? In that case I feel your pain. That's the only reason for anyone to care about the instruction set

 

[Aostia]

The catch is that, for most of the stuff she gets right, she's not the first to report it even though she often gets credited for it. Paper Mario U was rumored by someone else last year, and she was far from the first to say that Zelda would be ported. I think that E3 will be a big test for her, with the other Zelda rumors and Mother 3. Meanwhile, June's investor meeting will make or break 10k.



This isn't suggesting the Wii route at all. In fact, it debunks that. There is nothing modern about an overclocked Wii U.

The wii scenario is a home console just slightly more powerful/faster than the previous, in line with the becoming - old gen of the competitors

 

[UrbanRats]

In terms of raw power, numerous sources tell me that NX is much closer to Xbox One than PlayStation 4. Even that might be stretching it a tiny bit.

Being close to Xbone will be stretching it? I swear to God, Nintendo...

 

[Queen of Hunting]

Didnt emily say exact opposite few months ago and was one who got the nx rumors going lol

 

[Boy Wander]

The catch is that, for most of the stuff she gets right, she's not the first to report it even though she often gets credited for it. Paper Mario U was rumored by someone else last year, and she was far from the first to say that Zelda would be ported. I think that E3 will be a big test for her, with the other Zelda rumors and Mother 3. Meanwhile, June's investor meeting will make or break 10k.



This isn't suggesting the Wii route at all. In fact, it debunks that. There is nothing modern about an overclocked Wii U.

10K just passes on stuff from people he doesn't even know. I'd put zero credence to any of his rumours. I'm more inclined to believe Emily and when she says Polaris talk is wacky, my immediate reaction is that this is because they're not using AMD.

 

[MuchoMalo]

I don't think it would be anything like a hybrid. But the SCD's are meant to be a local cloud device with additional chips for more computational power. It would plug straight into the home console, but also talks of improving things for other devices over the air like a handheld or something else when playing their software.



Actually, new rumors from from NWR and others brought up to Emily, that Mother 3 is now looking shaky for E3 because of Nintendo's decision to go all in with Zelda. It could very well get it's own Direct.

So it's a little up in the air now for when, but all of them do say that there is a localized script within the company. I'm still hoping for E3 though, but I would be okay with a full dedicated Direct for Mother 3 too.

It's more the Zelda stuff that'll be a test than Mother 3 as far as E3 goes.

The wii scenario is a home console just slightly more powerful/faster than the previous, in line with the becoming - old gen of the competitors

That's not really what she's saying either. In fact, she says that it "blows away" Wii U.

10K just passes on stuff from people he doesn't even know. I'd put zero credence to any of his rumours. I'm more inclined to believe Emily and when she says Polaris talk is wacky, my immediate reaction is that this is because they're not using AMD.

No, she's calling them wacky because she's an arrogant know-it-all with a terrible personality who thinks that everyone should be thinking like her and loves to rag on people for not knowing what she does. She doesn't even know what Polaris is.

 

[nikatapi]

Were you looking forward to writing assembler code for it? In that case I feel your pain. That's the only reason for anyone to care about the instruction set

Boom. Even if it's ARM (hopefully) most engines and middleware are going to be more than ok for development.

 

[Nanashrew]

Didnt emily say exact opposite few months ago and was one who got the nx rumors going lol

I only remember her bringing up stuff during all the speculation from the that one GAF thread cause it was going crazy and too high but she said the specs are still good. That thread did go insane and crashed hard because everyone was in a speculation bubble. This is the first time we've heard about architecture or supposed power of the system from her.

 

[Manoko]

Being close to Xbone will be stretching it? I swear to God, Nintentdo...

Can't say I wouldn't be surprised.

Nintendo being Nintendo once again.

 

[MuchoMalo]

Can't say I wouldn't be surprised.

Nintendo being Nintendo once again.

Double negative there completely changed what you were saying.

 

[Black Mantis]

I'm cool with this if true, hopefully this will mean a decent launch price.

 

[Elfforkusu]

Nintendo does not use flash memory like SD cards. It's a special kind of ROM as it's cheaper and just as good.

Anyways, there is a reason to lock it, unfortunately. Solid state memory can get quite pricey for larger capacities. Discs are cheaper, but it's not like Nintendo can use them for a handheld unless they want to go PSP and risk no small form factor and moving parts. Mini-blu-rays wouldn't solve any storage issue either.

They'll probably max at 32 GB, or if we're lucky 64 GB. 64 GB would be perfect and since solid state memory is superior, nobody should complain.

32 GB (or worse, 16GB) would be a limiter.

128 GB is too expensive and frankly, essentially no game is that large.

Having the system support multiple sizes seems like a no brainer to me -- but I don't work in hardware design. Would give devs/publishers a choice, rather than "compress everything down to 32 GB, lol".

I said SD-ish, and meant solid state. I'm not really familiar with the nuances of what sort of ROM thing Nintendo's been using (although obviously it's not entirely ROM, since the cartridges handle saved game data), but I expect they'll continue along their DS/3DS path. The NX to me is a successor to the 3DS that can also run as a home console.

 

[kiguel182]

Well, that sucks. I was really hoping every console would move to the same architecture so we could have the same standard across the board.

I guess this means less third party support unless they are incredibly successful.

 

[Taker666]

If the handheld is using Tegra..I wouldn't be surpised if the console is as well.

With the next gen Tegra supposedly coming this year..that would certainly fit the " modern, industry leading" rumour (in regards to mobile chips at least)..and it will likely be somewhere around the XBOne/PS4 level.

 

[cartman414]

I've expected this from the start, now I won't be disappointed.

Spoiler

Nintendo can't go 3rd party soon enough.

Lol. As if they'll be better off as a 3rd party.

 

[JetSetRadio]

One day she'll be right.

 

[Nanashrew]

Well, that sucks. I was really hoping every console would move to the same architecture so we could have the same standard across the board.

I guess this means less third party support unless they are incredibly successful.

Only reason to fear ARM is if you're writing in assembly, which no one does these days with games.

All that matters is ease of development and engine support. Nintendo does still have a long way to go for 3rd party support no doubt, but they sound like they're going with ease of development and engine support, so that's good. It's something they've needed to do for awhile imo.

 

[nOoblet16]

Even after two tries (since Wii U is 8th gen and Nx will be 9th) they won't be able to blow away something like the Xbox One and stick to an obscure architecture (probably for backward compatibility to 3 gen back but making it a pain in the ass for developers who have it streamlined with x86 now).

Then they'll try to do some new gimmick with the console for which the console is underpowered there by affecting the quality of the game even further...and charge nearly $350 for it.

 

[Mpl90]

Vena in the other thread mentioned a possibly similar scenario, i.e. Gamecube v.s. Xbox v.s. PS2: consoles were the mere numbers didn't tell the complete story. Is there a deep analysis of performances between them anywhere on the web? I found this about the specs

http://wars.locopuyo.com/cwsystemspecsold.php

But the layout of the site is so awful, it doesn't entice people to read XD

 

[cartman414]

Modern doesn't mean more powerful as much as it means efficient. cool and quiet. If Nintendo is going with Nvidia, you can't do an Apples to Apples comparison in terms of FLOPS, so it's possible the Nintendo console looks closer to the XB1 on paper and "punches above its weight" so to speak.

Bad idea if they're going for another small and power-efficient console rather than something at least midsized. Nobody really cares about small form factor when it comes to consoles. It's also extra cost to miniaturize the parts.

ARM scales up better than x86 scales down. And if Nintendo is going the shared platform route, ARM makes the most sense.

But does x86 still not scale upward better, period?