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[Nanashrew]

That is true. The API's are high-level so the hardware implementation is not the most important. Still, it might create performance diferences since engines do use low-level programming that might need to be optimised differently.

Offering great dev tools is, no doubt, the most important step to get third-party support. But I think that the same architecture would also be a nice step in that direction. Especially since I'm a big supporter of console homogenization.

I'm actually really hoping they're going to provide better dev tools and documentation because that has been an issue. They need to get out of that of that odd habit.

I get the idea of console homogenization, but I think what Nintendo is going for is a universal platform all on the same architecture. Like all those Apple devices out there running on ARM. That could be their way to homogenize their own ecosystem. I dunno how things will exactly go on a bunch of this stuff but it certainly is interesting the direction Nintendo, and this industry is going right now.

 

[PdotMichael]

I will be extremely disappointed if NX is not at least as powerful as Xbox One.

I would be more impressed that Nintendo can really buy hardware parts in 2016/17 which provide less power than the Xbox One.

You would need two tapped Raspberry Pi's for that archivement

 

[Nanashrew]

Let me guess, you're a Nintendo fan.

Are you a Sony fan? Vita ran on ARM architecture and those ported and upscaled fine to the PS4 despite being different architectures.

 

[Kudo]

For handheld that sounds pretty awesome, but for new traditional hardware in 2016?
I don't understand the architectures, it might be just enough power for Nintendo so can't say much but I hope they can output 1080p/60 in Full RGB this time. Probably not a good idea to go overboard with the specs either as that's going to show up in the price.

 

[Eolz]

I will be extremely disappointed if NX is not at least as powerful as Xbox One.

Good thing it is then.

funny how she went from not top teir but still "good" Now the only console it will be better than is the Wii U spec and performance wise.

open your eyes people. "fiddle"

What are you even talking about?

 

[KAL2006]

I'd actually say the complete opposite of this is true, and if anything now is the perfect time for Nintendo to make a more traditional console and gain back a huge amount of ground their failed approach of cheap systems just for Nintendo games has cost them over the last decade plus.

Like it or not, the PS4 and rise in PC gaming shows us what the market is actually interested in.

Even the Xbox One fucked that up, and that leaves an opening for Nintendo, with its huge amount of brand awareness and nostalgia in the US, combined with far better standing and audience diversity in the rest of the world, that they could, with the right rebranding, third party deals and marketing, use to take second place this gen and be ready for a real fight once the PS5 and NX 2 set things back to 'zero'.

There's simply no other option. No matter how low the price goes, a Nintendo only console will sell less than the WiiU. Mobile will continue to sap the numbers from handhelds until it's into the niche numbers of dedicated cameras, sat navs and all the other tech smartphones killed.

There's a very healthy dedicated gaming and particularly console market that we know from previous gens can support 2 systems very healthily, and currently only has one player in it that didn't spectacularly fuck up, and there has never been a better time for Nintendo to right their ship and become that second player.

Just sticking the course and selling to the ever dwindling hardcore is just putting their fingers in their ears and shouting that what everyone wants is wrong while heading straight toward an iceberg though.

I disagree completely. Nintendo hardware sales has been on a decline since the N64 save for Wii which was lighting in a bottle. Having another GYA and COD console with the addition of Mario will not change the game. The people who play COD are already gaming on the other HD consoles with their friends and online infrastructure. The fact that Sony and MS want to iterate only proves they want to keep their userbase like Steam. There is no room for Nintendo to randomly be the go to console for 3rd parties. Yes it would get multi platform games if it was the same power as PS4 but I still can imagine some 3rd parties skipping it. I cannot imagine Nintendo lighting the sales on fire with another PS4 console hat also plays Mario when people can easily buy a PS4 which has a way bigger library for cheaper or the same price.

The only good option is to go the budget route. A £200 system that can play every Nintendo game from Pokemon to Mario. And a handheld console that shares the same library. This way Nintendo dint need 3rd parties as they will release all their software on 1 platform.

 

[Mooreberg]

My guess for a while has been that NX is Nintendo's play at trying to keep higher priced portable games relevant in a mobile freemium world. Being able to play those games on a TV would help with the value proposition. What percentage of the DS crowd that moved on to mobile would give this a chance is anybody's guess.

 

[Kid Ying]

There's no point in Nintendo investing in a powerful console. Nintendo can only differentiate through innovation at this point. They will not compete on traditional battlegrounds.

If they have a compelling gimmick it'll sell itself, if they don't then boom, Wii U redux.

Arguing about whether it's anywhere on the spectrum of a bit weaker than XBOne to slightly stronger than PS4 is pointless.


Either would be a disappointment to traditional gamers, excepting Nintendo's fans, who frankly, will take and like ( or begrudgingly accept ) whatever they get.

Yep. I think this is good news for a change. X86 would be a major pain in the ass for the unified architecture between console and handheld and even if it was better to get 3rd party ports, no one would buy an nx to play the games they already have on their consoles with their friends and their achievements.

3rd parties are not going to change anything. Only Nintendo can do that, so having more games coming from then is good for everyone. People wanting a 3rd party machine can have their fix right now.

I'm still not going to buy the nx though, unless its really incredible. Wiiu burned me enough.

 

[witchedwiz]

I will be extremely disappointed if NX is not at least as powerful as Xbox One.

that makes two of us.. :/

 

[thomasmahler]

Didn't Nintendo at some point say that they're not gonna do their own OS anymore (Which is batshit insane at this point anyway), but adopt Android looking forward?

Ah, here we go:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ollieba...ir-next-console-is-a-smart-move/#16647546826c

My guess is still on a handheld / hub that you can connect to your TV, which allows them to combine the console and handheld software libraries. Launch that for 250-299 with Zelda and you're in for a huge hit if they then keep trickling out software, which they should if they combine their software lib.

 

[Neo_Geo]

possible backwards compatibility then

Our wallets will be backwards compatible, paying full fucking price for a bunch of ports. Can't wait!

 

[PdotMichael]

Yep. I think this is good news for a change. X86 would be a major pain in the ass for the unified architecture between console and handheld and even if it was better to get 3rd party ports, no one would buy an nx to play the games they already have on their consoles with their friends and their achievements.

3rd parties are not going to change anything. Only Nintendo can do that, so having more games coming from then is good for everyone. People wanting a 3rd party machine can have their fix right now.

And why is embracing the Nintendo factor a better receipt for success? 3DS sales are declining hard, the WiiU was a disaster.

Nintendo's problem is the fact that Nintendo has not enough brand power to make their ecosystem interesting for the mass.

 

[Oemenia]

Are you a Sony fan? Vita ran on ARM architecture and those ported and upscaled fine to the PS4 despite being different architectures.

Except we are talking about console games.

 

[Nanashrew]

Didn't Nintendo at some point say that they're not gonna do their own OS anymore (Which is batshit insane at this point anyway), but adopt Android looking forward?

Ah, here we go:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ollieba...ir-next-console-is-a-smart-move/#16647546826c

My guess is still on a handheld / hub that you can connect to your TV, which allows them to combine the console and handheld software libraries. Launch that for 250-299 with Zelda and you're in for a huge hit if they then keep trickling out software, which they should if they combine their software lib.

I don't remember hearing anything about an Android OS.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

The sooner people accept that Nintendo does NOT care about graphics parity in any way, shape, or form, the easier the disappointment will be to manage.

 

[KAL2006]

Having checked prices on amazon for a NVIDIA Shield TV. It goes for around $199.

Obviously that is a niche product and Nintendo will make money on software and produce more units. So if I had to guess they can easily get away with releasing a system 2 times the power of NVIDIA Shield TV for $250 in 2017

Maybe add a bundled port of Mario Maker and you can have a fast seller here. Advertise that it is a unified console with a handheld system coming out with the next big Pokemon.

 

[blu]

Can someone dumb down in the simplest possible terms what it means to use x86 architecture and why it's a bad thing that they aren't doing so?

Same reason women who didn't sing in the church were pronounced for witches and hanged on the gallows' pole a few centuries ago.

Sheer human ignorance and (Cerny) flock mentality.

 

[Eolz]

Didn't Nintendo at some point say that they're not gonna do their own OS anymore (Which is batshit insane at this point anyway), but adopt Android looking forward?

Ah, here we go:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ollieba...ir-next-console-is-a-smart-move/#16647546826c

My guess is still on a handheld / hub that you can connect to your TV, which allows them to combine the console and handheld software libraries. Launch that for 250-299 with Zelda and you're in for a huge hit if they then keep trickling out software, which they should if they combine their software lib.

They never said that, your link is just poor speculation from a forbes contributor.

Also, again and again, it won't be an hybrid, nor an handheld that connects to your tv. How many times must it be said?

 

[virtualS]

So an ARM main processor or perhaps a new custom PPC design to maintain BC?

GPU has to be AMD surely. But if these handheld Nvidia rumors are true..

Makes much more sense to design a complete SOC with AMD... and x86 is the logical choice. I suppose AMD and IBM worked together on the WiiU SOC. Perhaps they'll go further again. The GPU would have to be PS4 level minimum though... surely.

Of course if it's all mobile tech then who knows.

 

[SGRU]

I would be more impressed that Nintendo can really buy hardware parts in 2016/17 which provide less power than the Xbox One.

You would need two tapped Raspberry Pi's for that archivement

If there's a company out there capable of making a console with last century specs, that's Nintendo.

 

[Nanashrew]

Except we are talking about console games.

Yes. But what would make things so dramatically different? Nintendo has kept saying same architecture for their systems. ARM isn't exactly weird to work either and so many engines already support it.

So an ARM main processor or perhaps a new custom PPC design to maintain BC?

GPU has to be AMD surely. But if these handheld Nvidia rumors are true..

Makes much more sense to design a complete SOC with AMD... and x86 is the logical choice. I suppose AMD and IBM worked together on the WiiU SOC. Perhaps they'll go further again. The GPU would have to be PS4 level minimum though... surely.

Of course if it's all mobile tech then who knows.

I don't believe they'll go back to PPC at all. No gains left in it.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Vena in the other thread mentioned a possibly similar scenario, i.e. Gamecube v.s. Xbox v.s. PS2: consoles were the mere numbers didn't tell the complete story. Is there a deep analysis of performances between them anywhere on the web? I found this about the specs

http://wars.locopuyo.com/cwsystemspecsold.php

But the layout of the site is so awful, it doesn't entice people to read XD

I don't see it, even if the ARM beats the current console CPU, the fact that is below "X1", puts it on a very different place. GC was more powerful than PS2.

 

[TLZ]

Let me guess, you're a Nintendo fan.

Posting in a Nintendo thread.

Whoa!

 

[KungFucius]

I wish Nintendo would do something completely crazy, build a console that could also run on a PC. By this I mean that the console could be hooked up to the PC via some data port to allow the games to be rendered by advanced GPUs in addition to just being a traditional console. I.e. it's a console but it also acts as a dongle/external drive to enable higher fidelity gaming for enthusiasts. They could build a front end windows application that handles settings and perhaps the options of high res texture packs. Again, crazy, but I would really like to have all my games on my TV connected PC.

 

[Peterc]

Could someone tell me whats the different between pc games with all kind of different cpu/gpu running the games much better than console. While if just one console use a different structure it would be an issue for game developers?

Don't get this part.

 

[E-Cat]

Being close to Xbone will be stretching it? I swear to God, Nintendo...

I don't mind if its ARM, I'm ok with it as long as they use modern cores, but power being on Xbox One level stretching it? Damn, seriously disappointed if true

That's not what was said at all. The original quote:

In terms of raw power, numerous sources tell me that NX is much closer to Xbox One than PlayStation 4. Even that might be stretching it a tiny bit. Anyone who is claiming that NX is “two times the power of PS4 GPU” is being misled by their sources. Based on what I’ve heard, I don’t believe the NX will compete directly with PS4 (Neo) / PS4K in raw power.

The only sensible way to read that is: Xbox One ≤ NX ≤ PS4. If NX was below Xbox One, it would make zero sense to call it "closer to Xbox One than Playstation 4", which sort of implies that it is between the two. You would simply say "NX is less powerful than Xbox One". The "stretching it" part probably means that NX is not really between Xbox One and PS4 as much as it is essentially tied with Xbox One.

And again, the not competing with PS4/Neo part means it's not really up there on that level, but that would obviously not even be an issue worth addressing if NX's power level was below that of Xbox One's

That's how a logical person would interpret the paragraph, anyway. It is a different matter altogether whether she said what she meant.

 

[Kid Ying]

And why is embracing the Nintendo factor a better receipt for success? 3DS sales are declining hard, the WiiU was a disaster.

Nintendo's problem is the fact that Nintendo has not enough brand power to make their ecosystem interesting for the mass.

Then they have to solve that problem by themselves. The 3ds is already 6 years old and the wiiu never got it at all. Doesn't mean the nx is already doomed. If Nintendo plans are to sell the same games between both consoles and if we end up seeing a repeat of this generation, thats still an audience of 70 million people buying their games. Not anything to brag, but not bad at all either. It's the best thing they can do.

The audience that buys 3rd parties games wouldn't care for what the nx has to offer anyway, since they already have their consoles. Nintendo needs to cultivate their own audience and if 3rd parties think they have people to sell, they will. Not the other way around. Focusing on a console for 3rd party games would end up being the third console, after 3 years of the last ones, with nothing more to add besides playing nintendo games (and with droughts, since unifying architecture would be much harder). So, nothing would change.

 

[GRW810]

"Everyone else's sources are wrong except mine," says Emily Rogers.

 

[JonathanPower]

In terms of raw power, numerous sources tell me that NX is much closer to Xbox One than PlayStation 4.

Alright. So that what the "X" in the name stands for.

 

[PdotMichael]

Then they have to solve that problem by themselves. The 3ds is already 6 years old and the wiiu never got it at all. Doesn't mean the nx is already doomed. If Nintendo plans are to sell the same games between both consoles and if we end up seeing a repeat of this federation, thats still an audience of 70 million people buying their games. Not anything to brag, but not bad at all either. It's the best thing they can do.

The audience that buys 3rd parties games wouldn't care for what the nx has to offer anyway, since they already have their consoles. Nintendo needs to cultivate their own audience and if 3rd parties think they have people to sell, they will. Not thebother way around. Focusing on a console for 3rd party games wouldn't end up being the third console, after 3 years of the last ones, with nothing more to add besides playing nintendo games (and with droughts, since unifying architecture would be much harder). So, nothing would change.

There isn't an untapped niche market somewhere which would provide "good enough" hardware sales.
You need to provide the complete deal.

 

[E-Cat]

"Everyone else's sources are wrong except mine," says Emily Rogers.

"Even when they contradict my earlier sources".

 

[Peterc]

"Everyone else's sources are wrong except mine," says Emily Rogers.

Maybe you can ask her what the system can do, controller or other add-on material. Because at the moment this seems to be an issue for most inside sources

 

[cyberheater]

I would be more impressed that Nintendo can really buy hardware parts in 2016/17 which provide less power than the Xbox One.

You would need two tapped Raspberry Pi's for that archivement

Well they managed that with the WiiU and the gap was 7 years. I'm pretty sure Nintendo can deliver a sub par system.

 

[Zombie James]

Could someone tell me whats the different between pc games with all kind of different cpu/gpu running the games much better than console. While if just one console use a different structure it would be an issue for game developers?

Don't get this part.

PC, PS4, and Xbox One all use the x86 CPU architecture. There are many different models, speeds, and feature sets, but they're all the same architecture. As to why having an outlier would be a problem, remember the issues developers had last generation making games for x86 (PC), PPC (360), and Cell (PS3)? Yeah.

 

[tim.mbp]

"Everyone else's sources are wrong except mine," says Emily Rogers.

By everyone you mean 10k and/or some random Reddit user.

 

[UrbanRats]

That's not what was said at all. The original quote:



The only sensible way to read that is: Xbox One ≤ NX ≤ PS4. If NX was below Xbox One, it would make zero sense to call it "closer to Xbox One than Playstation 4", which sort of implies that it is between the two. You would simply say "NX is less powerful than Xbox One". The "stretching it" part probably means that NX is not really between Xbox One and PS4 so much as it is essentially tied with Xbox One.

And again, the not competing with PS4/Neo part means it's not really up there on that level, but that would obviously not even be an issue worth addressing if NX's power level was below that of Xbox One's

That's how a logical person would interpret the paragraph, anyway. It is a different matter altogether if she said what she meant.

Honestly even an NX as weak as an XBone would be fairly disappointing.
Xbone was dated when it came out, let alone in 2017.
There's a reason why Sony and MS are likely considering upgrades to their hardware, already.

Something on the level of the PS4 should've been the absolute baseline for them.

 

[Kid Ying]

There isn't an untapped niche market somewhere which would provide "good enough" hardware sales.
You need to provide the complete deal.

Well, like i said, 70 million is already good enough for what they are planning and if their plans turns into a success, it might bring some people back.

But trying to fight the good fight, focusing on consoles (while in their while history the handhelds sold much better) just to play the same games that the competition already got it would give them nothing apart from some games that would sell much less, since there is no audience and a console abandoned after two years.

Better pick up the slack by themselves them.

 

[jdmonmou]

I'm worried about what this means for third party support.

 

[Jack The Nipper]

How can a your think otherwise. Nintendo had never had powerful or typical chips. When?

 

[E-Cat]

Well they managed that with the WiiU and the gap was 7 years. I'm pretty sure Nintendo can deliver a sub par system.

Honestly, the best way to predict NX's specs is not through these rumours but to expect the worst hardware possible and then divide your estimate by two. Seems to have worked well in the past.

 

[Durante]

I still don't understand why people overrate the ISA choice so much these days. It's not even relevant to the vast majority of game development.

PC, PS4, and Xbox One all use the x86 CPU architecture. There are many different models, speeds, and feature sets, but they're all the same architecture. As to why having an outlier would be a problem, remember the issues developers had last generation making games for x86 (PC), PPC (360), and Cell (PS3)? Yeah.

That's not a matter of x86 vs PPC, that's a matter of massive fat OOE cores vs. slim cores with wonky caching vs. basically doing distributed memory parallel programming with tiny memory pools and manual data streaming to achieve maximum performance.
The difference between a modern high-end ARM multicore chip and the Jaguar CPU in the consoles is negligible compared to that.

 

[DrFurbs]

The sooner people except that Nintendo does NOT care about graphics parity in any way, shape, or form, the easier the disappointment will be to manage.

But people who buy consoles do.

 

[E-Cat]

Honestly even an NX as weak as an XBone would be fairly disappointing.
Xbone was dated when it came out, let alone in 2017.
There's a reason why Sony and MS are likely considering upgrades to their hardware, already.

Something on the level of the PS4 should've been the absolute baseline for them.

Define 'disappointing'. Disappointing vis-à-vis what is possible to deliver on a 2017 gimmick-free, $299 system with great value? Sure.

Disappointing by contrast to what Wii's/Wii U's relative performance was at the time of release? Debatable.

 

[Nanashrew]

The sooner people except that Nintendo does NOT care about graphics parity in any way, shape, or form, the easier the disappointment will be to manage.

If it's at XBO's level, that's still parity.


Anyway, I'm going to bed.

 

[MuchoMalo]

Even after two tries (since Wii U is 8th gen and Nx will be 9th) they won't be able to blow away something like the Xbox One and stick to an obscure architecture (probably for backward compatibility to 3 gen back but making it a pain in the ass for developers who have it streamlined with x86 now).

Then they'll try to do some new gimmick with the console for which the console is underpowered there by affecting the quality of the game even further...and charge nearly $350 for it.

It's most likely using ARM, not the same CPU a fourth time.

 

[Gurish]

I still remember how much "sources" were wrong before the PS4 and XB1 reveal, most of them (with Arthur Gies among them) claimed that the XB1 is more powerful and that the devs are more impressed by it than the PS4 and other similar nonsense.

I'm not buying anything until reveal.

 

[test_account]

Just a guess, but I don't think Nintendo cares about third party support anymore. After all, when is the last time third parties have done anything for them?

They definitelly cares about it. 3rd party support brings in tons of extra money. They (Nintendo) make money on each 3rd party games being sold.

Same reason women who didn't sing in the church were pronounced for witches and hanged on the gallows' pole a few centuries ago.

Sheer human ignorance and (Cerny) flock mentality.

To me, it sounds like you're saying here that its completely irrelevant which CPU architecture that is being used. I'm not much of a tech guy, but it has to matter to some extend, otherwise Sony wouldnt have gotten criticism for using the CELL for example.

 

[Zombie James]

If it's at XBO's level, that's still parity.


Anyway, I'm going to bed.

A 2017 system at parity with a 2013 system. Oh good.

 

[E-Cat]

A 2017 system at parity with a 2013 system. Oh good.

*A severely underpowered 2013 system.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

A 2017 system at parity with a 2013 system. Oh good.

The lowered expectations image will never get old on Nintendo hardware threads.