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[Mass Effect]

looks like we will really be transferring to an iterative console format vs. the 5-8 year generation.

Will be fun to see how things pan out.

Also, I HOPE that part about ALL MS future games coming to PC is true.

And as we all know, PC gaming is incompatible with couches.

And TVs.

Don't try to plug a PC into a TV. It will explode.

And god knows what happens when you try to use a controller.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yea and that's why that's "fine" with me, but it's not fine to stick 360 players into XB1 which this route will end up doing, because the playerbases aren't split between XB1 and Scorpio.

It's more akin to compare to PC gaming, something I don't do, something I have no interest in and something that offers an advantage over others with less powerful hardware which I do not want. If I wanted that, I'd PC game but I don't, so I don't.

Again, people still have advantages over you on the console market as well. Always will unless you have the latest and greatest at all times. Not to mention, it is things you will NEVER see or be able to attribute to anything, lol. A lot on the PC side can't even prove it much, outside of blatant cheating/hacking... since you can't measure skill level arbitrarily, lol.

You are getting way too worried/concerned about things you will more than likely not even notice a difference in, compared to now.

 

[thehillissilent]

Iterative consoles will no way in hell release every year. Even every two years is highly unlikely. Every three I think is the minimum they can do it without potentially disturbing the market or upsetting their customers. Four years would be my sweet spot but I'm fine with three.
But yea I will probably only upgrade Xbox every iteration, and the PlayStation every other iteration since it's pretty much only for those sweet exclusives.

I think 3 years is going to be the sweet spot for iterative consoles. You might get a slim version in between that.

 

[Gren]

I'd be on board for Mr Scorpion if it actually ran full-blown Windows 10. My Alienware Alpha is getting long in the tooth when it comes to keeping up with just the current consoles.

I'm not expecting that though; Win10 intergration will more than likely be just access to the Windows Store & its games/apps.

 

[Chris1]

Again, people still have advantages over you on the console market as well. Always will unless you have the latest and greatest at all times. Not to mention, it is things you will NEVER see or be able to attribute to anything, lol. A lot on the PC side can't even prove it much, outside of blatant cheating/hacking... since you can't measure skill level arbitrarily, lol.

You are getting way too worried/concerned about things you will more than likely not even notice a difference in now.

So I ask again, which game on xbox one runs at a higher frame rate for one gamer than another xbox one gamer?

 

[otakukidd]

Bingo!

Technically it's more expensive. Cause it would require r&d for 2 more consoles instead of just 1. The existence of a ps4k has no bearing on the ps5 considering it was probably going to be same architecture anyway.

 

[16BitNova]

Me, too. I can't see this working for the big three for a long period of time, though.
This is not the beginning of an era but more a transition period.
Consumers already have gotten less price/value this gen:
1. Consoles sold at profit > underpowered
2. paid online

Now consumers are confronted with way more options whilst there is no evidence that the console market is growing overall. I'm repeating myself here: in 5 years one of the current console manufacturers will not be around anymore.

And this new iteration format will be the reason why. The average consumer is use to buying a console either for themselves or their kids and having that be the new thing for the next 5-6 years or so. Now they are going to see Microsoft and Sony try shoving a new console out every year or 2? I don't think many average consumers will buy into that, and we shall see which company suffers for it.

 

[EvB]

It was easy to see that Phil was pretty much lying about the 'i don't like XB1.5' type talk. They are going for the exact same concept.

Based upon what?

Do you know something that we don't know. What's the different between an Xbox 1.5 and an Xbox 2 in your mind?

I'm not a big fan of Xbox One and a half,If we're going to move forward, I want to move forward in big numbers

 

[DeepEnigma]

Technically it's more expensive. Cause it would require r&d for 2 more consoles instead of just 1. The existence of a ps4k has no bearing on the ps5 considering it was probably going to be same architecture anyway.

Technically it isn't because there was a rumor thread talking about this happening do to fab set-ups and AMD switching, so it was actually cheaper for them to go with the more performing chips, than sticking with the chips they are using now in the current consoles.

I am sure these console makers would not be doing this, if it was much more expensive than the old model.

 

[outunderthestars]

I'd be on board for Mr Scorpion if it actually ran full-blown Windows 10. My Alienware Alpha is getting long in the tooth when it comes to keeping up with just the current consoles.

I'm not expecting that though; Win10 intergration will more than likely be just access to the Windows Store & its games/apps.

I don't want that as I want an experience that is customized for ease of use: all games work with controllers, easier settings, no driver issues, etc.

 

[SneakersSO]

This conversation seems to be in a universe where the iPhone never existed. It's crazy.

It's like there isn't already a precedent for this.

Except phones are heavily subsidized, consoles aren't. The comparisons are not equivalent.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

Continuous iterative versions of the console(s) sounds like a disaster.

I'm fine with the idea of PS4k/XB1+, but if this becomes a yearly thing.. it just sorta defeats the purpose of console gaming: the simple, standard shared experience that makes it attractive in the first place. Gaming consoles aren't phones, laptops and tablets, integral parts of our modern daily life... while that market can certainly provide valid information, it makes zero sense to run gaming hardware with the exact same philosophies.

I can't say I'm excited by this news, but I am intrigued.

 

[icespide]

Continuous iterative versions of the console(s) sounds like a disaster.

I'm fine with the idea of PS4k/XB1+, but if this becomes a yearly thing.. it just sorta defeats the purpose of console gaming: the simple, standard shared experience that makes it attractive in the first place. Gaming consoles aren't phones, laptops and tablets, integral parts of our modern daily life... while that market can certainly provide valid information, it makes zero sense to run gaming hardware with the exact same philosophies.

I can't say I'm excited by this news, but I am intrigued.

there is no indication that console iterations will be a yearly thing

 

[DeepEnigma]

So I ask again, which game on xbox one runs at a higher frame rate for one gamer than another xbox one gamer?

Frame-rate is not the end all, and we already touched upon it with capped frame-rates in multiplayer. Are you intentionally being obtuse, or dismissing arguments you know there is no answer you can muster?

Shall we force everyone to have the same input lag sets? Not buy Elite controllers? Have the same internet latency? Not take Adderall and dominate in reflexes and spacial awareness clarity? Be 15 years younger than you and have better reflexes on average?

Again, you are making a larger deal out of something, you will never know the answer to, or able to ever decipher why that one person was so good. There will be no change, only placebo in your brain because you know there is a more powerful box out there.

Zen CPU, Vega GPU, HBM2? What?

$1299.99?

 

[Dabanton]

I bet my ass they want to be a decent jump over Neo, especially if it's next year.

No doubt. Sony played a blinder with the innards of the PS4, basically screwed MS from the off. The price differences also basically ended it before it begun.

One thing that MS has painfully learned this gen and that Sony learned with the PS3 is the main bulk of the gaming audience is fickle as hell. Take away the brand warriors and most people just want a value reflective console.

Price matters, features and how you announce them definitely matter. Doubt MS will ever have as disastrous an unveiling as the Xbox One reveal. All of their shows since then have been pretty good.

 

[prwxv3]

Based upon what?

Do you know something that we don't know. What's the different between an Xbox 1.5 and an Xbox 2 in your mind?

The new Xbox will not be significantly more powerful then the neo. The jump will be bigger ten ps4 to neo though so it will be a significant boost in that regard.

 

[Venom Fox]

Zen CPU, Vega GPU, HBM2? What?

 

[ironcreed]

And this new iteration format will be the reason why. The average consumer is use to buying a console either for themselves or their kids and having that be the new thing for the next 5-6 years or so. Now they are going to see Microsoft and Sony try shoving a new console out every year or 2? I don't think many average consumers will buy into that, and we shall see which company suffers for it.

Honestly, it just makes me consider giving in and finally getting that nice gaming rig that I have considered for so long after I enjoy the Xbox One and PS4 for a few more years. Either that or I may just bow out and make more time for other things in my life, such as more outdoor activities. Which is something that I want to get back into anyway.

 

[...Scatter...]

I don't want that as I want an experience that is customized for ease of use: all games work with controllers, easier settings, no driver issues, etc.

Be careful. You will awaken the Krakken.

Spoiler

Then they will tell you about how they reverted to the old driver because new one isn't stable. How they are working on a new cooling solution for their OCd card. How they rigged their controller to work with a third party app. How they use different chat software for each online game, etc.

 

[eso76]

Scorpio sounds so badass.
No one trusted Durango.

 

[icespide]

The new Xbox will not be significantly more powerful then the neo. The jump will be bigger ten ps3 to neo though so it will be a significant boost in that regard.

a bigger jump than PS3 to neo? daaaaaamn

 

[prwxv3]

Continuous iterative versions of the console(s) sounds like a disaster.

I'm fine with the idea of PS4k/XB1+, but if this becomes a yearly thing.. it just sorta defeats the purpose of console gaming: the simple, standard shared experience that makes it attractive in the first place. Gaming consoles aren't phones, laptops and tablets, integral parts of our modern daily life... while that market can certainly provide valid information, it makes zero sense to run gaming hardware with the exact same philosophies.

I can't say I'm excited by this news, but I am intrigued.

It's not going to be yearly lol. That is be nearly impossible.

 

[Nzyme32]

I know a lot of colleagues that wont game on pc, after working 8 hours on a desktop
they just want to sit down and chill on a couch.

Edit: I myself have no issues with PC gaming.

Yes - we all know this, me in particular - coming home and playing PC games on TV sat on the couch....

oh wait that isn't possible. Wonder how I'm doing that?

 

[outunderthestars]

Be careful. You will awaken the Krakken.

Spoiler

Then they will tell you about how they reverted to the old driver because more one isn't stable. How they are working on a new cooling solution for their OCd card. How they rigged their controller to work with a third party app. How they use different chat software for each online game, etc.

Ha! The spoilered bit is exactly why my Alpha rarely gets used anymore.

 

[BradleyLove]

And as we all know, PC gaming is incompatible with couches.

No, but PCs can be incompatible with wives and living rooms. Consoles are barely compatible at times too.

 

[otakukidd]

Technically it isn't because there was a rumor thread talking about this happening do to fab set-ups and AMD switching, so it was actually cheaper for them to go with the more performing chips, than sticking with the chips they are using now in the current consoles.

I am sure these console makers would not be doing this, if it was much more expensive than the old model.

The statement before was about r&d not production. Of course it's cheaper to get more current chips. I'm talking about iritive consoles not being cheaper to design than console generation cause of the architecture of the current consoles

 

[Pelagic]

Here is the upgrade cycle I'm going to be following in the future.

My Main Console: Buy an upgraded iterative console every 3 years.

My secondary console: Buy a new console every 6 years, mainly for exclusives.

Rince and repeat

It looks like instead of buying 2 consoles every 6 years I will be buying 3 every 6 years. An extra 400-500 dollars over a 6 year period isn't really that much money when you think about it.
I don't think there is enough reason to freak out over iterative consoles for me at least.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

It was easy to see that Phil was pretty much lying about the 'i don't like XB1.5' type talk. They are going for the exact same concept.

Now, with both publishers pushing this, i wonder what will happen to game design and the stability of the development process. It is a question for sure now that each publisher has standards placed on developers to ensure their own boxes get forwards and backwards compatibility

He didn't lie about anything. All it showed me was that people can't seem to understand basic reading comprehension.

He said he didn't like the name or implication of 1.5, and if they were to do it, it'd be something a lot more grandiose. I don't know why so many people are desparate to paint him as a liar when it was pretty clear as to what he was saying.

 

[icespide]

No, but PCs can be incompatible with wives and living rooms. Consoles are barely compatible at times too.

I really hope the PS4K looks very similar to the PS4 for this reason haha

 

[LuuKyK]

All these shorter console cycles continue to be extremely confusing to me.

 

[Voost Kain]

either

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EP55V5Y/?tag=neogaf0e-20

This Laptop can run QB at a smooth 30fps, a little iffy in areas at 1080p, less ify with 720p.

For the same price it shouldn't be hard to get a desktop PC more powerful than this laptop.

smart phones are more expensive than consoles

I see you ignored that last line.

 

[Guevara]

This has obviously been Microsoft's dream for the Xbox: a walled garden, really a single platform across multiple devices, unified by a single store. It's not hard to see how they envy platform holders like Apple, Valve, and others.

Still, in a weird way launching this in 2017 seems kind of desperate. You have to ask yourself: does it feel like Xbox is in a particularly good position now/next year? How about Microsoft's consumer brand overall? I don't think so, which is why such ambitious plans feel more like a last chance. A hail mary, rather than the culmination of 14+ years.

 

[_woLf]

This generation is going too fast.

 

[16BitNova]

Honestly, it just makes me consider giving in and finally getting that nice gaming rig that I have considered for so long after I enjoy the Xbox One and PS4 for a few more years. Either that or I may just bow out and make more time for other things in my life, such as more outdoor activities. Which is something that I want to get back into anyway.

Which are all good things. But, just proves what I'm saying. They're pushing you away from console gaming.

Like others are saying if these things release every 3 or 4 years, fine I can work with that. But, every 1 or 2 years. Fuck no.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Perhaps it's not 1.5. perhaps it's 2.0

I think that quote is more headed to, not making a small increment to the console, instead a big one that feels like a Xbox 2.

He didn't lie about anything. All it showed me was that people can't seem to understand basic reading comprehension.

He said he didn't like the name or implication of 1.5, and if they were to do it, it'd be something a lot more grandiose. I don't know why so many people are desparate to paint him as a liar when it was pretty clear as to what he was saying.

A 2.0 would mean an 8tflop console and an i7 level CPU, and 16GB of HBM2 RAM, something they will never fit into a console in 2017.

You have to recognize the limitations of what you can fit into that box for a worth while price. Based on what we know PSNEO's GPU is about half as strong as the Fury X, maybe even a bit more because its based on Polaris.

No matter how you slice it, anything MS comes up with in the next year is only going to be a small incremental increase on that if they aren't going to blow their budget like the old days and make a unit that is 200+ watt, which they are not.

So again, it was easy to see that he was lying when talking about a XB1.5

 

[Gren]

I don't want that as I want an experience that is customized for ease of use: all games work with controllers, easier settings, no driver issues, etc.

It'd be great & truly meaningful to me if they could have both, perhpas under a dual-boot scenario.

This is just wishful thinking though; not even sure if such an idea would even be possible, much less marketable beyond the few other folks like myself.

 

[Voost Kain]

No, they aren't different machines. They have different hardware but they are running the same OS, the same sdk the same tools. It's all the same except one will be more powerful or have some exclusive features like, you guessed it, an iPhone.

Also, there are three iPhone specs in the market right now. 6, 6s and SE. Four if you count the bigger screen as a different device. They are handled just fine.

You are just seeing this entirely wrong. This will also do the same thing (playing games) until the games outpace them, which should be 6 or 7 years like it was previous generation.

I don't think you get it.

That's why they sent out PS4k Dev kits.

Because they are running the same tools! http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2016/04/sonys_sending_out_ps4k_dev_kits_right_now

Wait not they aren't.

Also the fact the power changing how things run that immediately removes it from the multiple phones in mid and high range.

 

[gofreak]

Based upon what?

Do you know something that we don't know. What's the different between an Xbox 1.5 and an Xbox 2 in your mind?

I think Phil was deliberately interpreting what a 'Xbox 1.5' means differently to the general consensus in order to dodge/deny the question. I think to most, Xbox 1.5 means something midway toward a full generational leap e.g. maybe something a few times more powerful than the original rather than something 8 or 10 times more powerful. I think Phil was addressing the idea of something maybe only 50% more powerful, just to side step the question, but that's not what was or is meant by most when thinking of a 'Xbox 1.5'. Similarly I think to most, a Xbox Two is what they would term a next Xbox that might be another few years out, i.e. something that's 6 or 7 years out from the original Xbox One.

 

[...Scatter...]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EP55V5Y/?tag=neogaf0e-20

This Laptop can run QB at a smooth 30fps, a little iffy in areas at 1080p, less ify with 720p.

For the same price it shouldn't be hard to get a desktop PC more powerful than this laptop.



I see you ignored that last line.

I wanna see the receipts on that performance. That's a mobile APU. And it's more than the $300 he quoted.

 

[Chris1]

Frame-rate is not the end all, and we already touched upon it with capped frame-rates in multiplayer. Are you intentionally being obtuse, or dismissing arguments you know there is no answer you can muster?

Shall we force everyone to have the same input lag sets? Not buy Elite controllers? Have the same internet latency? Not take Adderall and dominate in reflexes and spacial awareness clarity? Be 15 years younger than you and have better reflexes on average?

Again, you are making a larger deal out of something, you will never know the answer to, or able to ever decipher why that one person was so good. There will be no change, only placebo in your brain because you know there is a more powerful box out there.

Hardly touched on it, you said it happens now and I asked for examples and you dodged the question twice now, and really, obtuse? pathetic, keep your insults to yourself.

That's not really the same but ok, only Elite controller which I don't even think offers much of an advantage, everything the elite can do the normal controller can do it just feels better and has paddles to essentially swap button locations. Can I also pay £400 (nearly $600) to get better reflexes aswell?

So because I'll never know why I died etc I've to intentionally walk into an unfair situation? Well that makes a ton of sense.

 

[mjp2417]

Continuous iterative versions of the console(s) sounds like a disaster.

I'm fine with the idea of PS4k/XB1+, but if this becomes a yearly thing.. it just sorta defeats the purpose of console gaming

It won't become a yearly thing. There really isn't any financial incentive for the platform holders to do this because they ultimately make their money on software licensing and services, not on hardware margins. I think this is ultimately more about locking consumers into an ecosystem going forward (a la Apple and Steam) than it is about making money off of new hardware.

 

[icespide]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EP55V5Y/?tag=neogaf0e-20

This Laptop can run QB at a smooth 30fps, a little iffy in areas at 1080p, less ify with 720p.

For the same price it shouldn't be hard to get a desktop PC more powerful than this laptop.

prove it

I see you ignored that last line.

uh ok

 

[kiguel182]

That's why they sent out PS4k Dev kits.

Because they are running the same tools! http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2016/04/sonys_sending_out_ps4k_dev_kits_right_now

Wait not they aren't.

Also the fact the power changing how things run that immediately removes it from the multiple phones in mid and high range.

The fact that there are dev kids doesn't mean the software to make games isn't cross-compatible between iterations.

 

[Josh378]

Imagine of Fanboy Wars:

Fanboy#1: Oh yes PS4k more powerful than Xbox one.

Fanboy#2: Yes but Xbox 1.5 is more powerful than PS4K in 2017

Fanboy#1: Oh yea? PS4.5k comes out in 2018 and blow the Xbox 1.5 out of the water.

Me: Wow.....

 

[timlot]

Scorpio sounds so badass.
No one trusted Durango.

Every time I saw that code name I always thought of the 90s era Dodge Durango...

Scorpio is soo much better.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Hardly touched on it, you said it happens now and I asked for examples and you dodged the question twice now, and really, obtuse? pathetic, keep your insults to yourself.

That's not really the same but ok, only Elite controller which I don't even think offers much of an advantage, everything the elite can do the normal controller can do it just feels better and has paddles to essentially swap button locations. Can I also pay £400 (nearly $600) to get better reflexes aswell?

So because I'll never know why I died etc I've to intentionally walk into an unfair situation? Well that makes a ton of sense.

I answered the question. Multiplayer has been a huge shift this gen to focus on 60FPS cap. IT WILL NOT INCREASE WITH THE NEW XBOX. A cap is a cap is a cap.

There are advantages now in input lag, latency, adderall, etc., etc.. (broken record)

Done with this conversation.

 

[Dabanton]

This generation is going too fast.

That's good news. These consoles have struggled with 1080p despite both companies bragging about it before launch.

 

[Markoman]

And this new iteration format will be the reason why. The average consumer is use to buying a console either for themselves or their kids and having that be the new thing for the next 5-6 years or so. Now they are going to see Microsoft and Sony try shoving a new console out every year or 2? I don't think many average consumers will buy into that, and we shall see which company suffers for it.

Of course, until now there are surely many multiple console owners out there including myself. - WiiU, PS4 (+PC). From now on consumers will become even more dedicated brand loyalists ..."Will I give NX a chance or do I spend my money on the next PS upgrade".
It's an endgame....
No one on Gaf will convince me that this strategy will lead to market growth. It's basically roughly 200m (out of my booty figure) console people that are now being divided amongst more hw. And this is where the phone comparisson fails. Even the third world population is a vital part of the ww phone market. Consoles?...not even close.

 

[jelly]

Hank Scorpio

Rod Fergusson

Coincidence?

 

[kiguel182]

Is this the card in that laptop? http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-R6-Carrizo-Benchmarks.144290.0.html

He can't even run Witcher 3 on low at 480.

That website mentions the same CPU that laptop has too.