plasmawave
Banned
Incorrect opinion.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
LTTP: Tomb Raider 2013 and why I like it better than Uncharted 4
- Thread starter The Lamp
- Start date
SlipperyFishes
Banned
My opinion can't be incorrect.
But go on, enlighten me. Most impressive set pieces?
Well, I'm sure most people will instantly remember the train from UC2, the blimp from UC3 and the Madagascar chase from UC4.
Tell me about this blimp
Uncharted 3 had a lot of great setpieces. Plane Crash is probably number one, but I also liked the sinking ship, stormy part of the shipyard, the Talbot chase, and the burning chateau.
SolidSnakex
Member
Ultimately Uncharted has never wanted or tried to be Tomb Raider. It's a shooter with some light exploration and puzzle elements to break up the shooting. In many ways it's the opposite of what Tomb Raider started out as. Which was an exploration/puzzle game with some light action to add variety.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I found the combat to be no better then previous Uncharted titles. Same tedious gunplay against enemies that take more damage then they should before going down. The only thing I enjoyed were the stealth takedowns in high grassy areas.
I think Tomb Raider's combat is far more satisfying. Especially landing head shots with the bow.
i found the environments of TR to be really bland, the characters and story awful, the set pieces amateur hour and the "tombs" lolworthy. The mp as well, hahahha.
The combat was great though, cant knock it for that.
Having said that, I think the combat was done better in U4, and that has a lot to do with the new rope mechanic.
I havent played the TR sequel but I hope it fixed a lot of the problems TR13 had
The combat was great though, cant knock it for that.
Having said that, I think the combat was done better in U4, and that has a lot to do with the new rope mechanic.
I havent played the TR sequel but I hope it fixed a lot of the problems TR13 had
Oh, plane lol. Well, there you go, even my lackluster memory could remember some of them. Though I have to mention that I replayed both UC1 and 2 a week before playing UC4.
This is what I mean when I mention the fake sense of accomplishment people get from Tomb Raider. Landing headshots is so incredibly easy that it gives the illusion of "great gun/gameplay".
SlipperyFishes
Banned
What blimp? Are you sure you didn't hallucinate that one?
Also I said from Uncharted 4, not the other games which I agreed had good set pieces. Uncharted 4 had nothing of note.
SRTtoZ
Member
Seriously? The Madagascar set piece is one of the best action sequences in video gaming. Are you really going to tell me it didn't stand out to you? You're in the very minority here.
The Madagascar chase.
RespectThySole
Member
The gunplay itself isn't that good in UC4, but the mobility options you have in the combat arenas make it immensely more satisfying than TR's combat.
Jawbreaker
Member
I think the Madagascar chase is one of the best set pieces in the series along with with ship in Uncharted 3 and the train sequence in Uncharted 2. I'd say that's pretty noteworthy.
What makes you think the crafting RPG mechanics are what people are referring to as deep?
I simply appreciate that my arsenal expands as I play. The bow not only kills, it moves objects, it explodes things, it pulls things, it creates new pathways. The shotgun does more than kill, it opens new paths. The grenade launcher does more than kill, it opens new paths That's depth.
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
You cannot do this on crushing or hard though. On crushing you'll die in two punches from a brute and it's strange that you can't block or parry in UC4. It is all very simplified.
The melee is a lot more fun on lower difficulties though.
Fancy Clown
Member
I couldn't bring myself to complete Tomb Raider 13, and I'm 2/3rds of my way through a second playthrough of Uncharted 4 already, so that should pretty much tell you what I think of their respective qualities.
Tomb Raider has more agency, but I don't enjoy exploring an ugly world with a terrible story and collecting a bunch of scrap for xp bars that give you abilities you should have had from the start but still don't make the combat interesting in the slightest.
I like the optional tombs, and there are some expanded traversal options in Tomb Raider that are cool, but that's about the only thing I like compared to Uncharted 4. Even just walking around and hopping off ledges in Uncharted 4 is more engaging to me since every action feels so satisfying and the settings are so incredible to explore and are filled with little narrative details whether they are character moments, journal entries, or environmental storytelling.
And then story and combat it's no contest. Tomb Raider 13 has one of the worst stories I've experienced as well as pretty dull combat, and Uncharted 4 has an unparalleled cinematic story and pretty much the best third person shooter combat ever.
Tomb Raider has more agency, but I don't enjoy exploring an ugly world with a terrible story and collecting a bunch of scrap for xp bars that give you abilities you should have had from the start but still don't make the combat interesting in the slightest.
I like the optional tombs, and there are some expanded traversal options in Tomb Raider that are cool, but that's about the only thing I like compared to Uncharted 4. Even just walking around and hopping off ledges in Uncharted 4 is more engaging to me since every action feels so satisfying and the settings are so incredible to explore and are filled with little narrative details whether they are character moments, journal entries, or environmental storytelling.
And then story and combat it's no contest. Tomb Raider 13 has one of the worst stories I've experienced as well as pretty dull combat, and Uncharted 4 has an unparalleled cinematic story and pretty much the best third person shooter combat ever.
Ascenion
Member
I'm the exact opposite. I felt like combat was a drip fed drug. Once I had a taste I wanted more and more but the game didn't budge. The lack of combat is my biggest issue with the game aside from some historical inconsistencies most here find absurd to take issue with.
I'm sorry, it's been a while since I played TR 2013, so I don't remember if there were crafting mechanics there, but I wasn't talking about them. I was referring to the weapon modifications and Lara's skills, which ultimately serve no purpose as enemies are easily taken down, even in the hardest of difficulties.
Blackage
Member
SRTtoZ
Member
Nightengale
Member
Unfortunately,by and large this runs antithesis to the director's design ethos.
The "constant" between design by subtraction approach to gameplay is that fundamentals don't evolve from start to end, and that you're simply using the same toolset the way they are, just in different scenarios.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
I enjoyed TR2013 a lot and was left pretty unimpressed by UC4.
Patiently waiting for ROTTR to hit a good price on Steam.
Patiently waiting for ROTTR to hit a good price on Steam.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
I found Uncharted 4 to be a step back from 2 and 3 in story and action.
Holy shit thank you. TR2K13 was a mediocre game that wanted to be Uncharted so badly, that it ended up doing so to its detriment. The pseudo-exploratory aspect of the game was bogged down by the mindless tombs you encountered dispersed throughout the derivative Uncharted like gameplay that didn't know whether it wanted to be a TPS or a survival game. The only positive from the game was the use of the bow which was fantastic, but only served to take you out of the suspension of belief from her not wanting to kill a deer in the very beginning to being a psychotic murderer with a pick axe towards the end.
Instead of going back to what made ND even take inspiration from them in the first place, they tried to one-up Uncharted and it ended up biting them in the ass. I have not played RotTR yet, but if it is anything like TR2013, I can only expect an "Uncharted 3"-like ramp up in setpieces and action and none of the substance that should come with a game of this nature.
toddhunter
Member
There is a long history of "tomb raider 2013 is amazing, it shits all over uncharted threads", from people who have not finished tomb raider 2013.
I have yet to see a "ok yeah it sucks" thread come later. The new TR just gets worse and worse the more you play it, so we'll see how you go once you play the second half.
If you still love it after finishing it, you are in luck because modern AAA gaming is made exactly for you.
I have yet to see a "ok yeah it sucks" thread come later. The new TR just gets worse and worse the more you play it, so we'll see how you go once you play the second half.
If you still love it after finishing it, you are in luck because modern AAA gaming is made exactly for you.
Daredevil.shark
Banned
I finished UC4 a week ago. IMO there are two major flows.
1. Lack of set piece moments. What is available is already seen by people at E3.
2.
Edit:
I think the direction naughty dog taking under druckman is not my choice. It has lots of walking simulator type situation where it tries to create a bonding using interaction. It worked in tlou but it has no place in uncharted. I miss henning.
1. Lack of set piece moments. What is available is already seen by people at E3.
2.
Sams motivation. If he was worker under rafe why did he had to kill lots of mercenaries. Sam could have easily led rafe to the treasure by tricking drake. Those life threatening situations Sam faced with Nathan are meaningless.
Edit:
I think the direction naughty dog taking under druckman is not my choice. It has lots of walking simulator type situation where it tries to create a bonding using interaction. It worked in tlou but it has no place in uncharted. I miss henning.
Nightengale
Member
Nah, ROTR went in the direction of basically being a hybrid of Arkham Asylum + TLOU, making it feel more like a more linear TPS Far Cry game.
Late Uncharted 4 spoiler:
Sam ditched Rafe before enlisting Nathan. He wasn't working for Rafe during the events of the game. That's why Rafe beats the tar out of him when they finally come face to face.
Nightengale
Member
You completely misinterpreted the 2nd story nugget in UC4 altogether.
Mr. Giggles
Member
The reboot was ok, I haven't played RoTR yet.
The writing was fucking awful though, Uncharted 4 excels in that department.
Fuck the waves and waves of enemies though, I don't understand why people enjoy that
The writing was fucking awful though, Uncharted 4 excels in that department.
Fuck the waves and waves of enemies though, I don't understand why people enjoy that
That doesn't sound fun at all. :/
Daredevil.shark
Banned
Ohhh. Now I get it.
Resident4t.
Member
I don't know if I would say that TR 2013 is better than Uncharted 4, but Rise of The Tomb Raider most definitely is.
It's disappointing that Uncharted 4 focused on the weakest elements of the Uncharted franchise (traversal, puzzles, and exploration) and didn't actually improve any of them.
It's disappointing that Uncharted 4 focused on the weakest elements of the Uncharted franchise (traversal, puzzles, and exploration) and didn't actually improve any of them.
Spring-Loaded
Member
... and that's about it
It was god-like as far as set-pieces go, but yeah. You have that collapsing tower which didn't have much else going on aside from running/jumping, and later the other truck chase. But yeah, that's it.
And the lack of notable set-pieces like that wouldn't be a problem if there was more frequent and sustained strings of combat/action throughout.
On its own, without comparing it to the other games in the series, UC4 has frequent "downtime gameplay," that makes up considerable chunks of the game. It's core, main gameplay is combat — as is evident in that most of the controller inputs are used for combat — and that often takes a back seat to other types of gameplay that are simply not fleshed out or as engaging as the combat can be. And that combat occurs infrequently.
Of course, people can and will like the long climbing stretches, walking moments, dialogue, and exploration more than the combat, but all of those have the depth and engagement of palate cleansers and side activities, not the depth of the main gameplay loop for a game from a high-pedigree developer. The dialogue options never come close to being as engaging as Firewatch (a game with similarly "inconsequential," dialogue choices that provide shape people's experiences in non-gameplay ways), and the exploration shows promise, but is never as substantial as TLoU which has notes and environmental storytelling on a more consistent meaningful level throughout. The climbing and traversal only occasionally does something new or challenging with its mechanics, and it rarely affects the flow or outcome of the portions surrounding it as there's usually only ever one path. Jack of most trades, and it wallows in it's weaker aspects all too often.
Like ThoseDeafMutes said above, enjoyment of the long slow segments hinges on investment in the characters and story (though, for a lot of those segments, the story is essentially paused and not pushed forward or explored significantly), which is a bit baffling for a bombastic action-focused TPS, which the game does well, if infrequently . And turning that on its head isn't inherently a bad thing, but it's not necessarily done super well here. It's not a matter of "wanting the same old stuff," and it's more "wanting the stuff we're getting to be consistently good."
It indisputably improved those, but not enough to make those this much more prominent than they've been in the past.
While I haven't played Uncharted 4, I'm personally not as interested in the straight-up action that an Uncharted would provide. I will probably try it someday simply for the spectacle.
I have played Tomb Raider 2013, and I generally enjoyed the gameplay quite a bit. I liked the semi-sandbox nature and the ability to upgrade your equipment. I also liked the fact that the gun-fight moments were not overused in the game, and because of this, when they happen, they have good effect. I'm not huge on cover-shooter mechanics so this felt like a good balance.
I'm itching to try Rise of Tomb Raider when it hits PS4.
I have played Tomb Raider 2013, and I generally enjoyed the gameplay quite a bit. I liked the semi-sandbox nature and the ability to upgrade your equipment. I also liked the fact that the gun-fight moments were not overused in the game, and because of this, when they happen, they have good effect. I'm not huge on cover-shooter mechanics so this felt like a good balance.
I'm itching to try Rise of Tomb Raider when it hits PS4.
Except the story.
From a PC point of view, Rise of the Tomb Raider is graphically a heavy step back.
What exactly was mindless about the tombs? They each have relatively clever puzzle and item mechanics (much like a petite Zelda dungeon) compared to most similar scenarios in Uncharted. Furthermore, mindless? There's tons of mindless climbing and pointless wandering in Uncharted 4 so it's interesting you take this angle.
It was kinda both. You're stranded on an island lol.
Okay come on. The entire island is full of psychotic cult murderers. She hunts deer to eat and she kills people to survive. That seems like a difficult criticism to cling to.
Okay well I don't agree but at least I don't have any concrete examples to counter with in this quote. I don't even understand what you are implying they should have gone back to.
Nightengale
Member
I really enjoyed it, but for very different reasons . I enjoy it the same way I do Ubisoft games , where the devs have achieved a addictive "loop."
Jawbreaker
Member
You will most likely enjoy Uncharted 4 based on the bolded.
His post is full of anecdotal "I don't like this" type of arguments. And I happen to disagree with just about everything in it.
Yeah, Tomb Raider 13 has the better gameplay to me but Uncharted beats it pretty much everywhere else.
It doesn't even beat in every gameplay category either. I'm speaking for Uncharted 4 which plays far better than any of the previous entries.
Yeah, the game looks fun, especially because they took the time to flesh it out in different ways. I like that they expanded the world. I'll definitely give the game a shot when I get some extra money. Ideally, I'd like to get both Uncharted 4 and Rise of the Tomb Raider.
Lol I'm sure you do. And full of anecdotal arguments? Isn't this what the whole entire thread is about? Someone's anecdotal argument about "I don't like thing" and people echoing it? Spare me champ.