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[Enter the Dragon Punch]

https://twitter.com/Steam_Spy/status/738463579112886272

Paradox Interactive requested me to remove their games from Steam Spy. Stats for their titles will no longer be available.

Damn. Paradox joining the exclusive club with... Bad Rats, I believe - is the only other game before Paradox removed their catalog - that had been opted out. Correct me if I'm wrong, and lock if old.

Credit to Lashman

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Should have been done ahead of time before their going public.

 

[OnionPowder]

Kerbal was also removed from SteamSpy

Probably to hide their sales numbers from their underpaid staff.

 

[Sinatar]

Paradox just launched their IPO and became publicly traded. I imagine they want to be able to massage their numbers to sound good for their stockholders.

 

[OnionPowder]

Paradox just launched their IPO and became publicly traded. I imagine they want to be able to massage their numbers to sound good for their stockholders.

Yep, also SteamSpy being unreliable at the launch of a game could also freak out shareholders.

 

[StrategyFan]

isn't the steamspy methodology basically public and reproducible by anyone?

i'm not sure what this accomplishes

 

[Nirolak]

Presumably want to bury numbers from shareholders so they can put out everything in the most positive, glossing over any problems nature possible.

At the rate we're going though there will probably be another service that replaces SteamSpy when enough people exit.

 

[galyonkin]

isn't the steamspy methodology basically public and reproducible by anyone?

i'm not sure what this accomplishes

It is. Several big publishers have already reproduced it. I'm the only one making it public, though

 

[Grief.exe]

Possibly a result of trying to go public.

 

[CosmicQueso]

And some people think we're actually going to get digital sales tracking someday...

 

[Chaser324]

Paradox just launched their IPO and became publicly traded. I imagine they want to be able to massage their numbers to sound good for their stockholders.

This seems like the obvious explanation to me. I'm sure Paradox has solid financials, but there's no denying that their audience is probably a bit smaller and more niche, albeit very dedicated and hardcore, than a lot of other publicly traded publishers. Being able to control that messaging about the size of their audience is probably important to them.

That being said, the info SteamSpy bases their estimates on is still publicly available, so it wouldn't be impossible for someone to go out there and produce a similar estimate.

 

[pantsattack]

It is. Several big publishers have already reproduced it. I'm the only one making it public, though

Who reproduced it? Is it to track competitor's numbers?

 

[MUnited83]

https://twitter.com/Steam_Spy/status/738463579112886272



Damn. Paradox joining the exclusive club with... Bad Rats, I believe - is the only other game before Paradox removed their catalog - that had been opted out. Correct me if I'm wrong, and lock if old.

Credit to Lashman

Kerbal too, as well as Nekopara.

 

[galyonkin]

Who reproduced it? Is it to track competitor's numbers?

People in big companies know sales numbers already or can estimate them pretty accurately. It is mostly to research the audience.

 

[Mrbob]

He shouldn't have given in. Disgusting how much control this industry has over numbers.

 

[Nirolak]

Kerbal too, as well as Nekopara.

Nekopara is actually back, but Nicalis pulled out I noticed.

 

[OnionPowder]

He shouldn't have given in. Disgusting how much control this industry has over numbers.

What right do we have to see how much a company sold of any specific item? It's not that big of a deal, even if it is nice to see the numbers.

 

[Grief.exe]

He shouldn't have given in. Disgusting how much control this industry has over numbers.

He doesn't want to rock the boat as Valve can kill the methodology at any time.

 

[Generalpsyduck]

Kerbal was also removed from SteamSpy

Probably to hide their sales numbers from their underpaid staff.

This.

 

[Nirolak]

It is. Several big publishers have already reproduced it. I'm the only one making it public, though

I realize my posts might have come off as harsh, but I do want to note your site is awesome.

 

[Grief.exe]

What right do we have to see how much a company sold of any specific item? It's not that big of a deal, even if it is nice to see the numbers.

They have a right to see our tendencies and metadata because we put it on the internet, the same argument applies to their game sales. It's publicly available data on Steam profiles.

 

[pantsattack]

People in big companies know sales numbers already or can estimate them pretty accurately. It is mostly to research the audience.

Tangential question: Do devs/publishers have info on Steam's wishlist? Like how many people have X game on it and what numbered ranking?

It seems so obvious a tactic if they can see a million people have a game in their top 5 wished, they have no reason to put it on discount.

 

[Grief.exe]

Tangential question: Do devs have info on Steam's wishlist? Like how many people have X game on it and what numbered ranking?

I believe they do actually. Valve gives developers all kinds of miscellaneous information, but things like duration on wishlist, rank on wishlist, etc would be super useful.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Yep, also SteamSpy being unreliable at the launch of a game could also freak out shareholders.

This is my thinking, and to be honest from a purely business point of view...a smart move.

 

[galyonkin]

Tangential question: Do devs/publishers have info on Steam's wishlist? Like how many people have X game on it and what numbered ranking?

It seems so obvious a tactic if they can see a million people have a game in their top 5 wished, they have no reason to put it on discount.

Yes, they have this data for their own games. Like: The game X is on Y number of wishlists.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Should have been done ahead of time before their going public.

And thus continues the trend of game publishers hiding their sales numbers from investors.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

And thus continues the trend of game publishers hiding their sales numbers from investors.

It is their right. I would too. Nothing sucks more than having to kindly explain to a board member "You're reading the fucking data wrong, you idiot." And they won't let go. Because they don't understand the context.

 

[YianGaruga]

Paradox buisness dev guy trying to rationalize the decision

Yep, also SteamSpy being unreliable at the launch of a game could also freak out shareholders.

I really think SteamSpy data should not be accessible until 2 weeks after launch or something. Everyone knows it's worthless early on and it leads to a lot of kneejerk reactions. It serves no one.

 

[Alphahawk]

So doesn't steamspy operate independently of publishers/valve. Why would they bow to their request?

 

[YianGaruga]

So doesn't steamspy operate independently of publishers/valve. Why would they bow to their request?

Because it's relying on Valve to leave access to the data open. If SteamSpy doesn't cooperate with pubs and they start throwing their weight around with Valve, they could just just end it.

 

[Abilidebob]

It's sad but within their rights. And not complying is stupid, as antagonizing devs and publishers is how you get Valve to pull the plug on things.

 

[Orthogonal]

Paradox buisness dev guy trying to rationalize the decision

I really think SteamSpy data should not be accessible until 2 weeks after launch or something. Everyone knows it's worthless early on and it leads to a lot of kneejerk reactions. It serves no one.

It's not worthless, just lagging. Anyone doing serious analysis should understand what they are looking at and it's a non-issue.

 

[YianGaruga]

It's not worthless, just lagging. Anyone doing serious analysis should understand what they are looking at and it's a non-issue.

For the first few days it's basically a fraction because of the way SteamSpy avarages the data. It's actually worthless and not just lagging.

Yes, people should understand what the data means, but most don't. No one needs the first few days of data if they're entirely inaccurate.

Steamspy will never be a good indicator of daily performance, so I'd argue even only weekly snapshots of data would be enough.

Hiding early data would also help to move early discussion of games away from sales data, which is something that's plaguing a lot of Steam release discussions. That's more of a personal thing, but it really sucks how often only one week after launch the discussion is dominated by sales talk, especially for smaller games.

 

[Almighty]

Because it's relying on Valve to leave access to the data open. If SteamSpy doesn't cooperate with pubs and they start throwing their weight around with Valve, they could just just end it.

Wouldn't that just leave people going back to the old method of trawling through steam profiles to collect the data? If I remember right Valve hated that method even more since it put such a burden on their servers.

As far as I can tell Pandora's box is open and if the developers/publishers keep removing stuff someone else less reasonable then galyonkin is going to pop up.

 

[Skux]

Is there a list of publishers that have requested to have their details removed?

 

[ScatheZombie]

And thus continues the trend of game publishers hiding their sales numbers from investors.

Ironically, removal of publicly accessible figures means that investors are the only people the sales numbers aren't hidden from.

 

[bjaelke]

Paradox buisness dev guy trying to rationalize the decision

Better explanation here (same person): https://www.reddit.com/r/paradoxpla...am_spy_on_twitter_paradox_interactive/d3tn3gt

 

[YianGaruga]

Better explanation here (same person): https://www.reddit.com/r/paradoxpla...am_spy_on_twitter_paradox_interactive/d3tn3gt

I don't know about that. I doubt that SteamSpy data is "wildly off". and

The issue with steamspy was that people looked at the "Owners" number and just went "= sales" which is dead wrong. Owners includes activated copies.

I'm not sure where all of those activated copies come from if it isn't sales. The ones given away for free to reviewrs and such are a tiny tiny fraction. Basically a bit of noise in the data.

Even if they believe SteamSpy data to be wrong, it's still useful. If you have better data exclusively for your investors and business partners, great. If your business partners use SteamSpy data in a dumb way that seems like an easy way to tell who you shouldn't do business with.

 

[JaseC]

Wouldn't that just leave people going back to the old method of trawling through steam profiles to collect the data?

That's what SteamSpy does and it extrapolates from there. It's why games with the section_type = ownersonly flag don't have ownership data (e.g. Underworld Ascendant's playtest app for alpha backers) as said flag limits the public exposure of said games, including their presence on user profiles -- they appear neither as recently played nor among a user's games list.

 

[Jintor]

It is their right. I would too. Nothing sucks more than having to kindly explain to a board member "You're reading the fucking data wrong, you idiot." And they won't let go. Because they don't understand the context.

yep, sucks for us curious peeps but I can see why they'd do it.

 

[mcw]

I'm not sure where all of those activated copies come from if it isn't sales. The ones given away for free to reviewrs and such are a tiny tiny fraction. Basically a bit of noise in the data.

Folks often get Steam games in a Humble Bundle by donating a single dollar, large portions of which don't go to the developer anyway.

 

[Deadbeat]

Does anyone have a list of their previous sales numbers? Probably should archive what they already have as of this date. I am now curious of what they got for some of their games.

 

[Risk Breaker]

I don't know about that. I doubt that SteamSpy data is "wildly off". and


I'm not sure where all of those activated copies come from if it isn't sales. The ones given away for free to reviewrs and such are a tiny tiny fraction. Basically a bit of noise in the data.

Even if they believe SteamSpy data to be wrong, it's still useful. If you have better data exclusively for your investors and business partners, great. If your business partners use SteamSpy data in a dumb way that seems like an easy way to tell who you shouldn't do business with.

Copies from bundles would also count, for example.

 

[Durante]

I really think SteamSpy data should not be accessible until 2 weeks after launch or something. Everyone knows it's worthless early on and it leads to a lot of kneejerk reactions. It serves no one.

I disagree. Just because some people are either too stupid or too impatient to interpret data correctly according to the method it was derived with doesn't make it useless.

Because it's relying on Valve to leave access to the data open. If SteamSpy doesn't cooperate with pubs and they start throwing their weight around with Valve, they could just just end it.

Maybe it's time for SteamSpy@Home.

 

[Parsnip]

Shame, but honestly I'm surprised this hasn't happened more often.

 

[Tworak]

unfortunate and it's more proof of big changes at paradox. I hope it doesn't affect the quality and type of games they make, but the jury is still out on that one.

 

[Nikodemos]

Copies from bundles would also count, for example.

Or those you receive with your video card.

 

[Imperfected]

Tangential question: Do devs/publishers have info on Steam's wishlist? Like how many people have X game on it and what numbered ranking?

It seems so obvious a tactic if they can see a million people have a game in their top 5 wished, they have no reason to put it on discount.

That's... sort of the opposite of the causality in that situation.

If you see that a ton of people have your game on their wishlist but haven't bought it, the natural assumption is that the price point for your game must be too high for those people as it stands right now, and you should probably put it on sale.

 

[Jebusman]

Question:

Is SteamSpy actually legally obliged to remove this data when asked, even though it's just publicly scrapped data from Steam profiles, or is it more a courtesy to the devs when they ask to have it removed?

 

[Nikodemos]

Not necessarily. I have several games on wishlist because of my immense backlog. If there's a sale I'll impulse buy them, but they'll likely join the rest on the pile. High or low price doesn't factor into this, not directly, anyway.