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"Can We Take a Joke?" - North American Trailer

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notworksafe

Member
There's a quick seconds-long shot of a couple of people storming a stage with no context, the guy talking about being called black Hitler, and Penn talking about Lenny Bruce being arrested. Yes, I watched the trailer, but there isn't a lot of context for the specifics here. I'm not trying to be Mr. Big Shot and seem like I'm imposing threats that I'm about to throw you out (as I'm sure you don't care anyway), but could you maybe give me credit for trying to post in good faith and reply earnestly instead of just offering snark?

Considering the usual level of discourse in these topics, I don't think you can blame me. Either way...

Mike Daisey getting his script/notes destroyed on stage for saying "fuck": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IeMtQ-SZtA

Tammy Pescatelli attacked by heckler for mocking her: http://www.laughspin.com/2012/07/13...sonville-police-refuse-to-arrest-drunk-woman/

No link but Jim Jefferies has been attacked on stage for a joke as well.

As far as gigs getting cancelled due to outrage:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...y-festival-to-be-cancelled-over-10419501.html
https://www.theguardian.com/culture...thwaite-free-speech-show-feminist-campaigners
http://theinterrobang.com/ralphie-may-gig-cancelled-over-jokes/
http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/C...ig-cancelled/story-28893701-detail/story.html
 

mattp

Member
You don't need to watch an entire documentary about this, in less than 60 seconds this entire topic is summed up, succinctly and completely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psjHo5JkHLc

EDIT: I'll watch regardless.

see, now this is a point i can get behind. all it takes is one person to take offense to something and the entire internet spreads it like wildfire

like when everyone decided "millions of people are so mad about starbucks christmas cups", when in reality it was probably one asshole
 

Nudull

Banned
Come on, some people will find certain jokes funny that others find offensive. The offended have the choice to ignore it, walk away, not support it, not listen to those jokes or watch comedians they don't like. Calling for censorship is wrong.

If all the offended would just enjoy the things they liked instead of focusing on the things that offend them, this wouldn't even be an issue. It's fine to call attention to things that offend or criticize it, but using social media and other means to bring down the things they don't like is censorship.

We're not calling for censorship, we're calling for these comedians to improve and do better at what they do. If they can't, others will.
 
how is losing jobs because people are offended by your jokes any different than losing jobs because you're not funny?
people dont find the jokes funny. in this case its because they find them offensive
you're a comedian. if there's not a big enough audience for your shitty fucking jokes, that sucks for you doesn't it?
The problem with this logic is that on the internet even if the most vocal group is small, the loudest and most determined can outweigh the influence of the many. Corporations frequently err on the side of caution over rolling the dice and hoping the offended party just lets it go.
 
The thing is, comedy is meant to poke fun at life in a way that people relate to, and what makes it comedic is often our own foibles and flaws and things. Comedy is inherently critical.

As it's critical, it's expected that some people will get offended. That's it by nature. It's meant to offend and cause reflection while also being humorous.
 

16BitNova

Member
Thank goodness. I've been saying for a long time how today everyone gets so offended for the smallest thing. Don't take life so serious people. Can we take a joke?
 
Keep doing what your doing comedians. If goofballs on the internet want to waggle their boney fingers at you let them.

62O0Y4t.gif
 
see, now this is a point i can get behind. all it takes is one person to take offense to something and the entire internet spreads it like wildfire

like when everyone decided "millions of people are so mad about starbucks christmas cups", when in reality it was probably one asshole

I think this is a big part of it as well. I can't count how many times i've read an "internet is outraged over x" article and the only source they have on it is 3-5 tweets from people with like 100 followers total.
 

Henkka

Banned
how is losing jobs because people are offended by your jokes any different than losing jobs because you're not funny?
people dont find the jokes funny. in this case its because they find them offensive
you're a comedian. if there's not a big enough audience for your shitty fucking jokes, that sucks for you doesn't it?

Well I think the problem is that it's getting increasingly difficult to gauge what is considered offensive or not. Take the #CancelColbert thing, for instance. In Colbert's mind, he was making a joke showing how absurd the Redskins situation was. In his mind, it was an anti-racist joke. But some people were still offended, and launched a campaign to get his show cancelled. Now obviously Colbert never had anything to fear, but what about a rookie comedian who's just getting started? A comedian's job is to push the limit, so it must feel like walking on eggshells.

As another example, there was a feminist comedy night in my city some months back. I wasn't present, but I happened to see the aftermath on their FB page. Apparently one of the organizers, a FTM trans comedian, had made a joke about wearing a fake dick or something like that. Some other people had considered this offensive. Cue dozens of comments of complaints, and I think he got banned from the feminist FB group, too. Note that this wasn't some cis white male making a joke about trans people, it was a trans person joking about his own experience.
 

ElFly

Member
The problem with this logic is that on the internet even if the most vocal group is small the loudest and most determined can outweigh the influence of the many. Corporations frequently err on the side of caution over rolling the dice and hoping the offended party just lets it go.

Well maybe the internet is doing something right then?

Cause pre internet (well, pre popularization of the internet, let's say the 90s) hundreds of hours of tv and movies were produced with content that insulted minorities, and companies did just hope the offended party just let it go.

I don't deny excesses happen, but honestly this is a much needed rebalance of the situation.
 

nynt9

Member
Attacking them how? Have these lobbying efforts been successful? Have any venues expressed disappointment that a show that would have otherwise sold well and been profitable and generated solid revenue for both the club and the performer have had to be canceled for no other reason than placating an angry mob? I'm not unwilling to hear counterpoints here, but I'm interested in specific examples of this happening.

Where are there examples of stand up comedians who are using their show as a flat out platform for racism/sexism/any other bigotry that many other posters in this thread seem to be painting the aggrieved party in this trailer as?

I don't support people using the "you're offended too easily" argument as a shield but this trailer is stand up comedians expressing specific gripes so I don't think painting all of them as such is fair.
 

notworksafe

Member
The better option would be notable AND relevant, but I guess that would require getting truly good comedians to spend time and effort on this.

Comedians like Jerry Seinfeld, Chris Rock, and Bill Burr...all of whom have complained about this same issue?
 

Kreed

Member
Looking at the trailer it looks like it mixes in genuine boycotts/outrage over comedians doing their routines with negative social media comments and hashtags which is unfortunate. "Outrage culture" aka people posting negative comments on twitter, is not a legitimate problem or a sign that "people are getting soft" vs a lack of understanding of how the internet works. If you say something online for everyone to see on public websites and apps used by millions of people, understand that you will get positive and negative comments and either accept both or don't do it at all. The scenes in the trailer of people attacking comedians or going to a comedy show and getting upset are things I would like to see discussed however.
 

stufte

Member
Well maybe the internet is doing something right then?

Cause pre internet (well, pre popularization of the internet, let's say the 90s) hundreds of hours of tv and movies were produced with content that insulted minorities, and companies did just hope the offended party just let it go.

I don't deny excesses happen, but honestly this is a much needed rebalance of the situation.

which tv shows and movies?
 

Vire

Member
Should have Louis CK... Also probably should be required watching for half of Off-Topic on GAF.
 

D i Z

Member
Gilbert Gottfried, Penn Jillette, Lisa Lampanelli, and Adam Carolla


Yeah, ok.... These guys crying about outrage culture when their entire catalogues are about them whining and crying about shit.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
No link but Jim Jefferies has been attacked on stage for a joke as well.

Well Its Jim Jeffries, the man is hilarious but his humor rides on him saying some pretty terrible stuff, though I will say, his joke about the airline seating him next to the large gay man is HILARIOUS.
 
Well maybe the internet is doing something right then?

Cause pre internet (well, pre popularization of the internet, let's say the 90s) hundreds of hours of tv and movies were produced with content that insulted minorities, and companies did just hope the offended party just let it go.

I don't deny excesses happen, but honestly this is a much needed rebalance of the situation.
The amount of times a comedian gets shit for saying something legitimately shitty is dwarfed by the times they say something actually entertaining to the majority of people and still get lambasted by a small minority of people. I'm assuming you consider it a rebalance because you don't see just how often people get mad over the dumbest shit imaginable. You can't really use this logic, because what could be funny to the vast majority of a group of people could offend like 10% and still cause a shitstorm. At what point do you draw the line between "He said a horrible thing." and "A small minority of people are going to get offended at anything they don't agree with and will claim the person saying it is a terrible person."?

The only two times I remember a comedian getting shit for actually saying something terrible were Michael Richards and Daniel Tosh.
 

Leunam

Member
Well maybe the internet is doing something right then?

Cause pre internet (well, pre popularization of the internet, let's say the 90s) hundreds of hours of tv and movies were produced with content that insulted minorities, and companies did just hope the offended party just let it go.

I don't deny excesses happen, but honestly this is a much needed rebalance of the situation.

Yeah lots of comedians are still finding success, and a big part of that is that they're able to better understand the attention that the Internet age brings them and how to handle it, or better yet, monetize it.

The ones in the trailer strike me as a generation that hasn't learned how to adapt to stay in the rapidly growing spotlight (occasional podcast aside) and might be a touch bitter about it. The comedy club is no longer the only venue for their talents, that stage has grown tremendously.

Comedians like Jerry Seinfeld, Chris Rock, and Bill Burr...all of whom have complained about this same issue?

Maybe I missed them, but I didn't see them in the trailer.
 

notworksafe

Member
Well Its Jim Jeffries, the man is hilarious but his humor rides on him saying some pretty terrible stuff, though I will say, his joke about the airline seating him next to the large gay man is HILARIOUS.

I agree that his humor purposely toes the line but still no one deserves to be attacked on stage for some jokes.
 

entremet

Member
The amount of times a comedian gets shit for saying something legitimately shitty is dwarfed by the times they say something actually entertaining to the majority of people and still get lambasted by a small minority of people. I'm assuming you consider it a rebalance because you don't see just how often people get mad over the dumbest shit imaginable.

The only two times I remember a comedian getting shit for actually saying something terrible was Michael Richards and Daniel Tosh.

Michael Richards wasn't even performing a bit. He answered hecklers in an extremely bigoted fashion.
 
Where are there examples of stand up comedians who are using their show as a flat out platform for racism/sexism/any other bigotry that many other posters in this thread seem to be painting the aggrieved party in this trailer as?

I don't support people using the "you're offended too easily" argument as a shield but this trailer is stand up comedians expressing specific gripes so I don't think painting all of them as such is fair.

My position is not to stand up for outrage and declare that these comedians had it coming. I mean, I'm of two minds personally about this type of stuff. On the one hand, I can honestly empathize with people that are caught off guard by sudden critique. I think it's a very human reaction to lash out when you feel you are being attacked. But I also sort of feel like comedians should be better prepared to deal with this than anyone else, particularly people who have been or currently are successful at it. It's a career built on developing a rapport with a wide audience.

I imagine that some people really are hurt when they find themselves suddenly being charged with bigotry or racism when they're using material that's worked in the past and don't really see themselves as guilty of such charges. But at the same time, I do think it's lacking in self-awareness and ironic to appear overly sensitive to such criticism when the crux of your issue is that people are too sensitive these days.
 
I also hope they get into LCK's whole idea about the thing, which is basically people love to get offended nowadays because it makes them feel good about being righteous, without actually doing a goddamn thing.

I truly think that this is the real etymology for today's "outrage culture": moral grandstanding. People who are really apathetic to the situation of others but want to win the e-peen war in terms of their righteous indignation.

So, in a way, this moral grandstanding is a compensation for their own shortcomings and/or apathy in terms of taking meaningful action to help correct the perceived slight/injustice.
 

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
I think #CancelColbert is an example of people getting it wrong, but Colbert's reaction was actually a good case study in how to react to it. He could have easily have undid a lot of good will he earned over the years by being caught off guard at this criticism and becoming overly defensive. But he kept his cool, calmed the angry fans who were lashing out at #CancelColbert, and it all blew over.

This is a good point and something I think a lot of comedians aren't necessarily equipped for. Which isn't meant to excuse a lot of their reactions but the environment that they developed in professionally is not conducive to thoughtful exchange when criticized. They're used to hecklers and what not which have universally been seen as best dealt with by berating them. So it's no surprise that a lot of these long standing comedians who came up in the 80s and 90s running the circuit all around the country a thousand times over are kind of putting their foots in their mouths when dealing with the age of the internet and PC culture, good or bad.

Some are probably just bull headed and unwilling to see the error in their ways, but I think a good few just aren't properly equipped with addressing the issues a larger portion of audience members might have with their material. All they know how is to ridicule them like any other heckler.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
I agree that his humor purposely toes the line but still no one deserves to be attacked on stage for some jokes.

Oh I agree but that's how you know a comedian is good, they can make jokes about some very racey, dark or fucked up subjects and still have you busting a gut laughing. The real great comedians take these touchy subjects and often build jokes up on them and around them instead of just tossing out a lame joke that will work for the lowest common denominator. I find Louis CK is the king of these kind of jokes.
 
I agree that his humor purposely toes the line but still no one deserves to be attacked on stage for some jokes.
Oh yeah agreed, you can say things and post nasty messages but do not attack people. Violence is never the answer. I also do not agree with getting arrested.
 
It's a tragedy in many ways. Professional comics are testifying at a Human Rights Tribunal.

Nothing they ever come up with in their career's will ever be that funny.


"So, and this is real, I'm not making this up -- I just testified at a Human Rights Tribunal."

"Thank you, you've been great!"
 

Leunam

Member
They don't seem to be in the movie but they have complained about this same issue previously.

I know. Shame they couldn't be in the movie because they'd probably be more agreeable and have a better perspective without sounding like a generation bitter about being left behind.
 

entremet

Member
I know. Shame they couldn't be in the movie because they'd probably be more agreeable and have a better perspective without sounding like a generation bitter about being left behind.

How do you know the current generation isn't enjoying comedy is as?

I am.

Because the impression I get from people who post in these threads saying comedians are out of touch are from people that simply don't follow much standup.

I do agree that outrage is limited to a vocal minority. But comedians are just as edgy as ever.

So I don't get your point.
 

notworksafe

Member
I know. Shame they couldn't be in the movie because they'd probably be more agreeable and have a better perspective without sounding like a generation bitter about being left behind.

You ain't kidding. Bill summed up the whole thing rather well in about a minute previously.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psjHo5JkHLc
No need for a whole movie.

edit: And it was already posted on this very page. Oops!

How do you know the current generation isn't' enjoying comedy is as?

I am.

Because the impression I get from people who post in these threads saying comedians are out of touch are from people that simply don't follow much standup.

I do agree that outrage is limited to a vocal minority. But comedians are just as edgy as ever.
I am as well. Got tickets to Jim Norton's show next week and I'm very excited to go with my lady.
 

Nairume

Banned
There is merit in the idea that comedians, by nature of comedy involving a lot of trial and error, should have some leeway in saying things that may push against what's "acceptable," at least as long as they are also willing to either meet a wider audience half way and adapt around said audience or accept that their brand of comedy is only ever going to appeal to a small The movie pushing the point that "one clumsy joke" shouldn't be enough to ruin somebody's career is definitely on the right track.

That said, involving Gilbert Gottfried, somebody who got in trouble for something more than "one clumsy joke," makes me lean towards seeing this project come off like a bunch of people who are on their way to irrelevancy on their own doing and want to blame everybody else for general audiences not wanting that brand of humor anymore. Maybe they will be willing to do enough introspection to address their own failings in addressing the times changing, but I am admittedly doubtful.
 

nynt9

Member
My position is not to stand up for outrage and declare that these comedians had it coming. I mean, I'm of two minds personally about this type of stuff. On the one hand, I can honestly empathize with people that are caught off guard by sudden critique. I think it's a very human reaction to lash out when you feel you are being attacked. But I also sort of feel like comedians should be better prepared to deal with this than anyone else, particularly people who have been or currently are successful at it. It's a career built on developing a rapport with a wide audience.

I imagine that some people really are hurt when they find themselves suddenly being charged with bigotry or racism when they're using material that's worked in the past and don't really see themselves as guilty of such charges. But at the same time, I do think it's lacking in self-awareness and ironic to appear overly sensitive to such criticism when the crux of your issue is that people are too sensitive these days.

I can agree with you, but I don't think the response by the comedians to the criticism can be called as "sensitivity" - the manner of "offense" taken by the audience members who are "offended" by jokes and comediands who are "upset" by the response from the audience is a different type. I think the "lol why are you offended that people are offended" reaction is kind of juvenile and pigeonholes the issue. The reaction by the comedians isn't being offended. It's being defensive, because they're being attacked (verbally, physically, digitally, whatever manner you choose) by audiences for doing comedy, which according to some definitions is designed to surprise, shock or offend on some level. Being defensive is not the same thing as being offended, I think.

That said, involving Gilbert Gottfried, somebody who got in trouble for something more than "one clumsy joke," makes me lean towards seeing this project come off like a bunch of people who are on their way to irrelevancy on their own doing and want to blame everybody else for general audiences not wanting that brand of humor anymore. Maybe they will be willing to do enough introspection to address their own failings in addressing the times changing, but I am admittedly doubtful.

Yeah, this is a real problem. I wish "better" comedians have stood up for this issue, but I guess due to the nature of it that's kind of a catch-22.
 
Considering the usual level of discourse in these topics, I don't think you can blame me. Either way...

Mike Daisey getting his script/notes destroyed on stage for saying "fuck": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IeMtQ-SZtA

Tammy Pescatelli attacked by heckler for mocking her: http://www.laughspin.com/2012/07/13...sonville-police-refuse-to-arrest-drunk-woman/

No link but Jim Jefferies has been attacked on stage for a joke as well.

As far as gigs getting cancelled due to outrage:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...y-festival-to-be-cancelled-over-10419501.html
https://www.theguardian.com/culture...thwaite-free-speech-show-feminist-campaigners
http://theinterrobang.com/ralphie-may-gig-cancelled-over-jokes/
http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/C...ig-cancelled/story-28893701-detail/story.html

While nobody deserves to get punched, I don't know if the Pescatelli thing is really indicative of outrage culture or just the kind of drunken shenanigans one might expect from such a setting when things go awry. Again, I'm not defending him getting attacked, but just not sure I'd chalk this up as outrage culture or just the work of a drunken idiot.

The rest are things that I understand can be unfortunate. Especially if the comedian needed the money, I'm not really in favor of intentionally trying to be petty and hurt someone's bottom line. But I do wonder if all of these are indications of the angry mob bullying venues or just a change in perception that caused venues to reconsider the desirability of the event. I'm just meandering here and not really making a point, and I realize I there's no way to verify it either way, but I'd be interested to know just how upset the venue was about having to cancel the Ralphie May show, for instance.
 
sit back and take what, though?
they ARE just whining. no one is stopping them from telling jokes
they're upset because some people are criticizing their jokes
what is there to "take"? no one is arresting them
I get both sides of the arguments but I stand with comedians on this one. It's fine to criticize a comedians act and say it's offensive but it's pretty shitty when people try to organize boycotts, protest and cause the loss of money to them by getting shows/performances cancelled
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Both the best and the worst type of comedians are the ones who shock you. The truly great ones build off that shock and create a bigger better laugh out of all of it by the end, the bad ones just leave you shocked and angry as the joke in of itself was nothing more than to get a rise out of you instead of making you think or anything like that.
 

Nairume

Banned
I think #CancelColbert is an example of people getting it wrong, but Colbert's reaction was actually a good case study in how to react to it. He could have easily have undid a lot of good will he earned over the years by being caught off guard at this criticism and becoming overly defensive. But he kept his cool, calmed the angry fans who were lashing out at #CancelColbert, and it all blew over.
On a similar point, you have somebody like Trevor Noah, somebody who was/is on his way up and didn't/doesn't have the established good will like Colbert, and he still managed to survive his own twitter controversy by simply owning up to where he went wrong.
 
"Obviously we can't give oxygen to the idea that making fun of people in rude ways is okay, because there are people out there who are bad that also do this."

I think Off Topic is actually running out of posters who could be considered vertebrates
 
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