Only that's not what he's saying, at all.
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Only that's not what he's saying, at all.
Ok, last post.
Dont go looking for shit in my post.
I support equal rights for everyone. Thing is, if something sucks for you, you have to fight for it yourself, because other people don't give a fuck.
He is whinny because he complains on how he "has" to act. He doesn't have to act like shit, he choses to act because of a percieved notion that people will judge him by his imaginary standards.
Normal people don't think you are racist just because you are white in the same way normal people don't think you are a criminal just because you are black.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Bootstraps.
You're right in that others likely won't give a fuck, but this seems a strange way to agree with the article in a way while dismissing it as whiny.
cyclonekruse
Member
That's exactly what he's saying. He's saying that a white man is presumed to be a racist and because of that now need to be aware of how they come off.
Then I guess minorities live in dystopia.
That wasn't the point of the article.
It's not saying "everyone should do this too because white men do it" but more "this is what everyone feels because of how prominent stereotyping is from white men and now you know what it's like to be profiled and stereotyped based off your gender, race and sexuality which is to say, not good"
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I assume anyone that does exactly this isn't a 'normal' person by your own subjective definition.
Chie Satonaka
Member
I would say it's pretty interesting that you've dismissed his experience and the experience of other blacks as "whiny" with "imaginary" standards, but the posts you've made in this thread are pretty telling of how you actually feel about the issue. This isn't some one off thing, but hey, I'm sure if black people just pretended it wasn't an issue, it'd go away since it's just imaginary anyway.
Jesus.
Nealand Liquor
Member
He said white people are seen as racist until proven otherwise. How is this not racially profiling, bigoted and assuming the worst?
I want to understand and I obviously don't.
There's posts in this thread explaining such.
I'm not looking for shit.
The shit is right there, in plain view.
This would be like asking me to not go looking for tits in a strip club.
Your attitude is the exact type of privilege the guy is arguing against. The type of privilege that doesn't even have to be aware of itself. The type of privilege that can flippantly dismiss this article as whiny and the standards the author feels he has to uphold as "imaginary" as if this isn't a feeling most black people (and women/minorities in general) near-unanimously sympathize with. The type of privilege that can afford to say "well, my life is good, so why should I give a fuck? If you argue against the way things are, then you're just a fucking whiner. Do Something...just don't ask me what that something is, because fuckit--I gots my benefits" like you basically just did.
Bullshit. It's the other way around. Because casual racism is increasingly having negative consequences for white people (like Anthony Cumia, Donald Sterling). So now, other white people are feeling more pressure to separate themselves from the likes of racists. Hence it's becoming a new-found burden for many whites who have otherwise might not been directly inconvenienced by racism on a daily basis.
In the 1900s, public officials were openly KKK members, and they didn't give a fuck that black people thought they were racist. Even liberals of that time were all over the board about the issue of black equality, and it probably did not keep them up at night worrying if that one black family down the street thought they were racist.
Nowadays, when a casual racist joke or rant gets aired in public, it has real consequences for all people of all races. True racist have to worry about losing their jobs or reputation in society, even if they internally still believe in racism. Non-racist also feel shame when casual use of racial language gets pointed out, they realize it does not reflect their true feelings about race, and wish to avoid excessive punishments for their actions.
And really, it's not just the white mans burden. Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics also have to deal with being improperly branded as racists toward each other and towards whites as well.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Also, never mind that he didn't have to actually do anything to achieve his position of privilege.
terribletwo
Member
who's normal
cyclonekruse
Member
You're saying the author isn't making that claim?
Correct, you are reading that quote completely wrong. Because look at the first sentence in that blog post. He's responding to the fact that Anthony made a series of racist tweets which eventually got him fired. The author is saying, we shouldn't coddle Anthony from the consequences of his rant, to ignore the words said. We shouldn't just drum up a bunch of celebrities to help get his job back. Let's take his words at face value and treat it as racist. It is up to Anthony to show he is not racist, despite what these following tweets say. No giving him the benefit of doubt, he's going to have to address these accusations directly.
http://gawker.com/siriusxm-host-claims-cuntrag-assaulted-him-in-racist-1599491744
White men of course.
cyclonekruse
Member
I don't think I am. He closely follows that statement with:
Why do you think black men had to be so aware of how they approached white women? I don't think it's because they wanted to distance themselves from the few black men who actually attacked white women. It's because they were presumed to be criminals and any hint of aggression whatsoever could land them in trouble.
Similarly (according to the author here), white men now have to be aware of what they say with respect to minorities precisely because "it will be assumed that you are racist, misogynist, homophobic, etc. until proven otherwise."
Triggafinga
Banned
Being self aware was a CHOICE and is a choice for anyone.
Some black guys exert no brain power towards being "self aware". Instead they express their discontent with having to placate to the stereotypes.
People who disagree with the OP remind be of those black guys I know. Their black power comes from refusing to be "self aware". although I'm the opposite I can understand their point of view
cyclonekruse
Member
Eh...being self-aware for a black man pre-60's was a choice in a similar way that you have a choice not to give your wallet to a mugger pointing a gun at you.
You're still conflating his example. It's not about approaching every random white person who jaywalks across the street and accusing him of trying to avoid crossing paths with black people.
It's about not making excuses for insensitive racial, sexist, and homophobic language. Not hiding behind excuses like, I'm joking, I was just angry, I'm obviously not racist so you have no right to call me out.
cyclonekruse
Member
I can honestly say that I do not see where you're getting that from what he wrote. Nor do I see how what you're saying here refutes my point. The blog writer made a clear comparison between black men having to be aware how they approach white women and white men having to be aware of how they approach racial topics.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Sorry, but I'm Scotch Irish, my "fathers" were slaves. I don't have to prove anything to you nor you to me. I simply try to treat people as human beings.
It's not about color, never has been, it's about social classes.
By all means, feel free to say whatever you like, this is a free country. Same for the blogger too. Just keep in mind black people already deal with eggshell walking when they talk about racial topics, women when they talk about gender topics, etc.
Honestly, having read it I don't quite agree with everything he says. Then again, I'm not offended by anything he says either.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
How do people make the easiest quick judgments about class in America now?
Do black people have to be aware how they approach racial topics?
cyclonekruse
Member
Sure. But what I gather from the author of the blog is that a white person wouldn't be afforded the same benefit of the doubt that a black person would. That is, if a black guy makes an ambiguous comment that could be construed as racist, he's not likely to be perceived as a racist. I suppose the reason might be because the black person is assumed to be more empathetic due to the fact that he is the target of racism himself. However, if a white guy says the same ambiguous/borderline comment, he's just going to be seen as racist. Because that's the stereotype of the white male now.
Again, these aren't necessarily my views but what I read the blogger as insinuating.
Again, that's not what he's saying at all.
What this blogger is speaking about is, specifically, the "victimization" certain racist/sexist/homophobic/anti-Semitic white guys feel because we now live in a world where they will be called out and/or be negatively affected by their racism/sexism/homophobia/antisemitism. Suddenly, the guys feel like they're being persecuted when, in reality, they're being subjected to the same world everyone else has lived in--namely, watch what the fuck you say, because how you come off can have adverse consequences.
In the main Anthony Cumia thread, someone posted a youtube video of an excerpt from the Opie and Anthony show of Anthony (and Opie, because that fucker is racist too) basically lamenting how "PC" the world has gotten, and how white men can't make "jokes" anymore. The specific wording Anthony used, that really blew my mind, was "people don't realize how dehumanizing it is. How uncomfortable they make us feel when they police everything we say." The irony here should be obvious. That Anthony Cumia could say THAT with no awareness of how dehumanizing and uncomfortable his
cyclonekruse
Member
Part of the blog was about that, sure. But then the author went on to say
He even said the "main point" is that white men don't get the benefit of the doubt and that "no matter what" white men will be assumed to be racist, etc. And he compared the presumption of a white man's racism to the presumption of a black man's criminal nature when approaching a white woman. So, yes, it seems pretty clear that he's saying that white men are assumed to be racists, sexists, homophobic, etc nowadays.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
this must truly be an american thing. I've never felt like an oppressed white man. It continues to be easy street.
I do find myself overly irritated by how ridiculously stupid political correctness has become and most of the discussion around these themes appears to quickly devolve into people attempting to prove how enlightened and accepting they are (which always smacks of bullshit), but I don't feel it victimises me as a white guy, at all.
I do find myself overly irritated by how ridiculously stupid political correctness has become and most of the discussion around these themes appears to quickly devolve into people attempting to prove how enlightened and accepting they are (which always smacks of bullshit), but I don't feel it victimises me as a white guy, at all.
I also find it ironic that you are dismissing his experience as a black man( an experience a lot of posters in this thread share and can relate to) without actually dealing with the issue itself. Your response is basically "just pretend it doesn't happen and it will go away". Well it doesn't just go away when your constantly reminded of it everyday but you wouldn't know that since its something you don't have to deal with which is kind of the point of the blog post. That those days are over and you will have to deal with some shit in one way or another unless you just don't care about this stuff which seems to be your position.
Class and race are very heavily tied together in the United States. You might want to look into intersectionality.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
Real question, do you know what you're talking about when it comes to how the Irish were treated when they first immigrated to the US?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But there isn't an overall problem with violence in the black community. You are assuming that all black communities have high murder rates. And that's the problem with the way the other guy positioned his post. When it comes to us black people, things are always spoken about in absolutes. I've lived in areas with a good amount of black people and it wasn't violent at all.
Now I do appreciate that in the second part of your post you stated "impoverished black communities".
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
The point is white people aren't used to being called out on it on a national scale like they are starting to now (or over the last 20 years or so). Pre 1980 you could say some racist stuff out right and keep your job pretty easily. You could be straight up homophobic and be praised for it just 20 years ago.
He's saying times are changing and he's asking white people to be aware of this and adjust accordingly if you have to.
I'm not sure what libertarianism has to do with believing or not believing climate scientists. Are climate scientists violating the nonaggression principle or something?
I'm not sure how familiar you are with economics, Time, so bear with me if this is all basic knowledge for you.
In economics, there is a concept known as an externality; an externality is a cost of production that isn't paid by the producer. As an example, imagine a widget maker who owns a widget factory. The costs of making widgets include the pieces of the widget, the electricity needed to run the factory, the wages of the workers on the floor, and also the noise created when making the widgets. The factory owner pays for the first three, but he doesn't pay for that last one. The noise created is so loud, in fact, that the sandwich shop next door loses significant business, because everyone would rather go down a few blocks and buy a sandwich from a shop that's less noisy.
The noise is a consequence of the widget production, but the cost of that noise is paid by the owner of the sandwich shop next door -- that's an externality. Libertarians tend to either downplay the significance of externalities, because they typically require government intervention of some sort to correct.
Now, with that concept in mind, climate change is the mother of all externalities; some factory in New York is polluting the air and costing you something, even as you live thousands of miles away. The world gets ever so slightly warmer, and the ocean rises ever so slightly, with each puff of pollution they create, and yet they are not and never have paid you for that. It's a massive, complex problem that requires commensurate massive oversight to fix, and libertarians tend to reflexively downplay problems which require government oversight to resolve.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Yeeeeeep. My parents think I'm crazy for growing a beard. Hell, it's a really dumb idea that I grew a beard, but I did it as a big fuck you, and I'm in a country where no one will think ill of me. I just have to probably shave it off when I visit my parents in the states.
Angelus Errare
Banned
United States of America, est in 2014.
AbsolutBro
Member
Having done work on that case, I'd like to point out that this is nothing close to reparations. That settlement was over government mishandling of funds for native americans held for use of their lands and other native holdings.
To put it simply:
This wasn't "we feel bad about all the shitty things we did to your people, here have some money".
This was "we had a bargain and reneged on rent, purchases, and sometimes flat out stole your money, here's part of what we probably owe you".
Trying to use Cobell v Norton as some aspect of reparations doesn't work.
Do you disagree that some segments of American culture already assume Asians to be racist, Hispanics to be sexist, and Blacks to be homophobic? Ignore the sensationalist term "white man's new burden" for the moment, this phenomenon has always been a barrier for minorities, women, and gays when making political critiques of American culture all throughout history.
I understand you prefer that nobody gets label as racist/etc. I would prefer that too, but look whenever someone posts a "I wish there were more black/female/gay characters" on gaming side. OPs get accused of dividing the gaming community, injecting politics into something fun, being PC thugs running amok trying to smear your favorite developers, and plenty of "who cares?" comments. Feminism threads on OT get hijacked into "but men have it just as bad" comments, with many people assuming feminists are man-haters, assuming the only good feminists were from the 1960s and that feminazis make up the majority today.
What do you think about giving Rush Limbaugh the benefit of the doubt and saying, he's not really being racist/feminist/homophobic, he has myriad reasons for his views, he's simply upholding wholesome traditional Christian American values, oh, and all his comments are satirical anyway?
Let's be realistic and assume racism won't be conquered within the next 50 years. That coincides with the end of white plurality in the American population. Do you not think white people will become increasingly entangled within racial politics? (Ignoring the fact that whites have always been involved with racial politics since the Constitution.)
Vicetrailia
Member
Critical thinking classes need to be mandatory.
milquetoast
Banned
I did make sure to smile more to the 2 black people I interacted with today (at chik fil a and rite aid) so the article did have an effect on me.
What if this weren't a just blog, and instead was history books, statutes of law, mass media representation, platforms of major political parties, family lineages, social-economic statuses, religious teachings, and daily casual interactions that caused people of different backgrounds to perceive you differently before they knew you?
MorisUkunRasik
Member
The difference in quality of life of the first ancestor of yours that left chains and their descendants severely outpaced that of the first generation of blacks freed from slavery and their descendants and continues to. It is about color, to deny that is otherworldly in terms of foolishness.
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