Support NeoGAF

[duhmetree]

Using Bungie as an example, they just pulled their resources from optimizing last gen and cut out the support moving forward.

Those same resources could be moved to optimize for the NEO. Which should be easier to do than trying to optimize old gen

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

They will work, but perform/look just as they do now on the PS4 currently.

'Neo Mode' just means there is enhancements to said games from what we gather.

All games will be at least base (it should play your Bloodborne out of the box), but current games (games pre October 2016) can be patched to support enhancements. After October, I believe they have to at least be 1080p on Neo, but not perform worse than the PS4 if more bells and whistles are pushed. Which leads me to believe there is internal scaling to 4K built in (Sony X1 tech?), thus the 1080p mandate.

Hmm people asking for UC4 upgrades so I was just asking

 

[potatohead]

Using Bungie as an example, they just pulled their resources from optimizing last gen and cut out the support moving forward.

Those same resources could be moved to optimize for the NEO. Which should be easier to do than trying to optimize old gen

My humble opinion, but I think it makes more sense to optimize old gen and just add bells and whistles to Neo version for extra "stuff."

That's basically how "ultra" works on PC.

 

[thuway]

You are which is why they will require full support of the base PS4 for the foreseeable future.



Are you backtracking? A little while ago you seemed to believe $499 was Zen Lite(which is the only thing that makes sense). $499 is for Jaguar is a joke.

I am backtracking. Yes I am. I guess I saw the light :/. Oh well all this speculation has me pessimistic now. Scorpio will be in a similar balance btw- I don't know how people are expecting MS to pull off 6 + TF at less than $599.

 

[BruceCLea]

Do we think the Neo will release this year with a no show at E3? I mean once this thing is debuted, it'll need to launch soon after that.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Hmm people asking for UC4 upgrades so I was just asking

I would be shocked if Naughty Dog did not patch it to have some single player upgrades to showcase, as well as 1080p/60 for multiplayer.

Essentially not as much of a headache, than doing the TLoU Remaster.

 

[Negotiator]

Questions:

1) How much bigger will the APU die size be if it has 8 Zen cores (I assume 8 cores due to BC) instead of 8 Jaguar cores? An extra $100 sounds extreme, unless the die size increases quite a bit... the PS4 28nm APU cost $100 back in 2013 ($110 for the XB1 APU).

I'm not worried about the cost per se. It's the reliability/fan noise that makes me worried. Is there any chance that we might see YLODv2 (or RRODv2 for the Scorpio) make a return?

2) What's the difference between Zen and Zen Lite? Is the latter missing any features hardware-wise?

 

[geordiemp]

$499 would have to be more than 4.2 TF.

$400 and I say 4.2 TF if not more.

$500 is too much for only 4.2 TF, I doubt Sony would do that.

4.2 TF is not the issue, its fast enough for GPU unless you want 1440p or 4K. We are concerned about the CPU, will it be Jaguar, zen lite or zen lite + even more bandwidth.

$ 500 for 4.2 TF but with a really powerful CPU in Zen would be great, all games 60 FPS at 1080p, smooth and fast and buttery. Zen being 40 % more efficient, and clocked higher than 1.6 in ps4, would not be surprised if it went twice as fast bandwidth allowing. Would probably allow 90 FPS native mode in VR as well.

Thats worth it for me, I will have 2 please.

 

[blastprocessor]

I doubt the $499 one would be Jaguar 4.2TF .
If we go by old rumors the 499 one was with the better cpu and that is before we knew about AMD new card price .

That's what l understood so l don't get where the $499 for 4.2tf is coming from.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

What make you think someone at Digital Foundry or Giant Bomb knows more than OsirisBlack? Just because you could put a name with a face? We won't know the specs until the day Sony announces them.

You answered the question yourself. Also both of those sites are stating as fact that Neo will launch as a 4.2TF system. Osiris is Bish checked but mods have made clear before that means they are in a position to know stuff only. The info could prove incorrect and none of us have any idea who insiders are. (no offense to insiders).

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I am backtracking. Yes I am. I guess I saw the light :/. Oh well all this speculation has me pessimistic now. Scorpio will be in a similar balance btw- I don't know how people are expecting MS to pull off 6 + TF at less than $599.

Would have been nice if Osiris had given us some context for what this new minimum meant, but what fun would it be if he told us everything...

 

[thuway]

4.2 TF is not the issue, its fast enough for GPU. We are concerned about te CPU, will it be Jaguar, zen lite or zen lite + even more bandwidth.

$ 500 for 4.2 TF but witha really powerful CPU in Zen would be great, all games 60 FPS at 1080p, smooth and fast and buttery. Zen being 40 % more efficient, and clocked higher than 1.6 in ps4, would not be surpised if it went twice as fast bandwidth allowing.

Thats worth it for me, I will have 2 please.

My stupid predictoins:

For what it's worth $499 seems to be the machine with Jaguar, and $599 is the machine with the new CPU and higher performing GPU. I personally want Sony to go with the $599 model, but the industry had its shock and awe moment in 2006 when the $599 meme erupted.

Would have been nice if Osiris had given us some context for what this new minimum meant, but what fun would it be if he told us everything...

Osiris is a legend.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

For what it's worth $499 seems to be the machine with Jaguar, and $599 is the machine with the new CPU and higher performing GPU. I personally want Sony to go with the $599 model, but the industry had its shock and awe moment in 2006 when the $599 meme erupted.

What .
Where did you see that ?

EDIT i see you edit .

 

[DragonKnight]

It will not be $599, at all.

Bookmark this post.

$499 max if up-spec'ed from early leaks.

Early leaks said $399 with Jaguar 4.2TF, $499 with difference CPU, and the guy kept talking about a different CPU like they were leaning that way


Yep.

And Polaris can be clocked to 5.5TF with GDDR5 as it is in the RX 480.

Thought the rumor mill had the 480 downclocked for heating reasons. Did something change?

 

[thuway]

What .
Where did you see that ?

Just a prediction.

 

[DeepEnigma]

My stupid predictoins:

For what it's worth $499 seems to be the machine with Jaguar, and $599 is the machine with the new CPU and higher performing GPU. I personally want Sony to go with the $599 model, but the industry had its shock and awe moment in 2006 when the $599 meme erupted.

Where are you getting this?

Original post by Osiris (as far as pricing)...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1202462&highlight=399

Related info from a meeting we had yesterday was waiting for it to be approved before posting.

Price is currently $399.99 they were discussing a better CPU which would raise the price to $499.99 we were guaranteed the price will be no higher than $499.99 (He mentioned the CPU upgrade quite a bit almost as if they haven't really decided on a final spec could be a pricing issue.) also there is currently no plan for any type of trade in program for current PS4 users but that could change.

Thought the rumor mill had the 480 downclocked for heating reasons. Did something change?

The thread is still up with 5.5TF in the title.

 

[3rdamention]

They don't want to reset a generation that they won hands down after only three years, so this lets them try to offer a competitor to any outside attempts to upset the generation (see the Xbox Scorpio), while still trying to milk 5-6 years out of this one.

It's notable that the PS4K requires all games also run on the PS4, whereas the implication of the VR addition to the Xbox Scorpio suggests Microsoft isn't.

It's kind of an awkward dance for consumers, but makes sense from the corporate perspective of both Microsoft and Sony, where each is trying to make the move that's most favorable for themselves.

That is a great point I haven't seen mentioned. You simply will not be able to run Scorpio VR games (if it does have VR) on an OG Xbox One (that doesn't appear will ever support VR games).

That is going to be a bit confusing. Will MS have to have seperate game cases for Scorpio VR games so consumers are aware it will not run on their Xbox One?

 

[StrongBlackVine]

You answered the question yourself. Also both of those sites are stating as fact that Neo will launch as a 4.2TF system. Osiris is Bish checked but mods have made clear before that means they are in a position to know stuff only. The info could prove incorrect and none of us have any idea who insiders are. (no offense to insiders).

They stated the information they had access to at the time. Nothing is fact until Sony announces it.

 

[-Horizon-]

You are which is why they will require full support of the base PS4 for the foreseeable future.

The thing is, I'm more used to having the full bells and whistles of games for a console generation rather than partway through.

Yes, its still the "same" game whether its on ps4 or neo. But I like to know that the game I have is the best already rather than just enough.

 

[geordiemp]

My stupid predictoins:

For what it's worth $499 seems to be the machine with Jaguar, and $599 is the machine with the new CPU and higher performing GPU. I personally want Sony to go with the $599 model, but the industry had its shock and awe moment in 2006 when the $599 meme erupted.

Oh well, I am out, will keep my 2 ps4 and wait until someone has the balls to give us a true 1080p console well capable of 60 FPS on all the games. I dont want to go PC.

Looks like Sony want to make some profit ....

Are you sure Sony is being greedy and going for a Jaguar $ 500 console ? (who cares about the GPU, wont help much)

God, why is it every console manufacturer that has some success goes on to totally fuck up the next instalment. Amazing isnt it ?

I can be sure I wont be gaming on a jaguar CPU console in 2018. Thats for sure, had enough of 30 FPS and janky running games.

 

[//DEVIL//]

I dont mind a new system every 2 years or so to be honest as long as i can play my old games.

All i will do is just sell my system before the new one is out ( unless its a collector item then i wont sell shit just like how i wont sell my mgs5 ps4 ) and pay the difference.

Console price for me is not a big deal . Like . I am ok with paying 200 to 250 $ above my console resale value to ensure a better experience. If i dont have the money at that time i will just wait when i do. But i do not want to pay money on a console and not play my old games. If that happens again i am selling all my collection and going pc only.

 

[RootCause]

The thing is, I'm more used to having the full bells and whistles of games for a console generation rather than partway through.

Yes, its still the "same" game whether its on ps4 or neo. But I like to know that the game I have is the best already rather than just enough.

Well, you'll have the best possible version of the game on ps4.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Just a prediction.

Don't really make sense .
A extra 100 is a good amount if we talking about specs .
Don't forget we are talking about a die shrink and more efficient hardware comapre to OG PS4.

 

[xXCrazyCostaXX]

This is almost impossible if the two consoles are releasing a year apart as rumored. What Sony can do and what it looks like they will do is make sure the gap is not massive enough to convince consumers to switch platforms.

Rumored though
It could be 6 months or less or more. Nobody knows. Wish we did though. Disappointed they won't be showing it or talking price and release

 

[DragonKnight]

Where are you getting this?

Original post by Osiris (as far as pricing)...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1202462&highlight=399





The thread is still up with 5.5TF in the title.

Sorry. I meant the ps4k configuration of the 480. How did we jump from 4.2 to 5.5 TFLOPS

 

[-Horizon-]

Well, you'll have the best possible version of the game on ps4.

At this point that's all I can do. Sit and take it as something that's happening and try to enjoy what I have.
Because I don't plan to plunk down more money that could be used for a ps5 a few more years down the road...or a ps5k even later down the road.

This is not the future of gaming that I wanted. But hey, if other people are ok with it, I won't stop them.

 

[thuway]

Don't really make sense .
A extra 100 is a good amount if we talking about specs .
Don't forget we are talking about a die shrink and more efficient hardware comapre to OG PS4.

Shrug. BTW if Neo goes 6 TF with Zen at $599, Scorpio will be in a similar position, I think.

 

[duhmetree]

My humble opinion, but I think it makes more sense to optimize old gen and just add bells and whistles to Neo version for extra "stuff."

That's basically how "ultra" works on PC.

I would hope they still optimize it instead of brut forcing it. Give me all the bells and whistles possible

 

[mrklaw]

Shrug. BTW if Neo goes 6 TF with Zen at $599, Scorpio will be in a similar position, I think.

The only way this is a thing, is if Sony/MS think they can get away with it because it isn't a 'new launch' - the existing console sits there at $299 for normal folk, so they can sell a smaller volume of really expensive machines, aiming to get the price down to $399 ASAP. I don't see it though. They know $399 is the sweetspot, so might be ok with $499 for a more hardcore machine. But $599 is a step too far I think

 

[R10Neymarfan]

Shrug. BTW if Neo goes 6 TF with Zen at $599, Scorpio will be in a similar position, I think.

Then I would tell people to just build a PC because at that price it might be cheaper to build a more powerful machine.

 

[JaggedSac]

Was there some new info recently brought to light?

 

[thuway]

The only way this is a thing, is if Sony/MS think they can get away with it because it isn't a 'new launch' - the existing console sits there at $299 for normal folk, so they can sell a smaller volume of really expensive machines, aiming to get the price down to $399 ASAP. I don't see it though. They know $399 is the sweetspot, so might be ok with $499 for a more hardcore machine. But $599 is a step too far I think

I can see Sony marketing the PS4 base machine at $299 and the hardcore machine will get you ~3X the raw performance at $599. This is why I think they won't opt for the higher end model because people see $599 and run for the hills.

Also a $599 price point will defend the base machine's price point. Sony can still comfortably sell the PS4 at $299/249. Only the most die hard will buy Neo, and the Neo's price will eventually come down as things get cheaper.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sorry. I meant the ps4k configuration of the 480. How did we jump from 4.2 to 5.5 TFLOPS

Oh my bad, I was just mentioning in passing that considering AMD got it to 5.5TF with GDDR5 to boot, that I am sure the thermals are better to afford Sony the ability to play with clocks as well.

MSFT did also up clocks in their thermal comfort a couple months before launch of the XB1.

Oh well, I am out, will keep my 2 ps4 and wait until someone has the balls to give us a true 1080p console well capable of 60 FPS on all the games. I dont want to go PC.

Looks like Sony want to make some profit ....

Are you sure Sony is being greedy and going for a Jaguar $ 500 console ? (who cares about the GPU, wont help much)

God, why is it every console manufacturer that has some success goes on to totally fuck up the next instalment. Amazing isnt it ?

I can be sure I wont be gaming on a jaguar CPU console in 2018. Thats for sure, had enough of 30 FPS and janky running games.

Step away from the ledge, lol. This is just one person's musings, not official, lol.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Then I would tell people to just build a PC because at that price it might be cheaper to build a more powerful machine.

Yeah it would be really hard for me to say $499 with Jaguar is a good deal if the GPU is selling for $199.

 

[potatohead]

4.2 TF is not the issue, its fast enough for GPU unless you want 1440p or 4K. We are concerned about the CPU, will it be Jaguar, zen lite or zen lite + even more bandwidth.

$ 500 for 4.2 TF but with a really powerful CPU in Zen would be great, all games 60 FPS at 1080p, smooth and fast and buttery. Zen being 40 % more efficient, and clocked higher than 1.6 in ps4, would not be surprised if it went twice as fast bandwidth allowing. Would probably allow 90 FPS native mode in VR as well.

Thats worth it for me, I will have 2 please.

Ah OK that makes sense then.

 

[Kyoufu]

Then I would tell people to just build a PC because at that price it might be cheaper to build a more powerful machine.

You can already do that now, and I can't play games like Uncharted and Horizon (etcetera) on a PC, so I don't know what the point of that would be.

 

[thuway]

Then I would tell people to just build a PC because at that price it might be cheaper to build a more powerful machine.

If for $599 you can get Zen CPU performance (rumored to be i5 levels) with a 6 TF GPU, HDMI 2.0, and all the bells and whistles that come with building a console. You should totally go for it. But you still won't play Horizon, God of War 4, Uncharted 4, The Last Guardian, etc. in 4K.

 

[kingwingin]

$599...

 

[StrongBlackVine]

You can already do that now, and I can't play games like Uncharted and Horizon (etcetera) on a PC, so I don't know what the point of that would be.

If you already own a PS4 and don't plan to sell it then a budget PC build might be better deal than $499 Jaguar anchored PS4 Neo.

 

[thuway]

$599...

I know this feel. You have to consider your options if your interested in Neo.

A $499 4.2 TF machine with Jaguar.
or
B $599 6 TF machine with Zen-Lite.

The only advantage is that Sony can defend the original PS4's value and it won't go into the trash. The original PS4 will sit on shelves and remain at a $299/249 level.

 

[geordiemp]

If for $599 you can get Zen CPU performance (rumored to be i5 levels) with a 6 TF GPU, HDMI 2.0, and all the bells and whistles that come with building a console. You should totally go for it. But you still won't play Horizon, God of War 4, Uncharted 4, The Last Guardian, etc. in 4K.

Yeah I would buy 2, gimme Witcher 3 in 1080p60 locked please, Bloodborne in 60, it would be heaven. Dropped frames ...what are those. Thats a true enthusiast machine for console players. dont want to have to build a PC, I want to play games on console dammit. Zen I am in, Jag I am out.

If you already own a PS4 and don't plan to sell it then a budget PC build might be better deal than $499 Jaguar anchored PS4 Neo.

Or a scorpio next year is my thoughts if Sony go Jaguar and MS see common sense.

 

[thuway]

Yeah I would buy 2, gimme Witcher 3 in 1080p60 locked please, Bloodborne in 60, it would be heaven. Dropped frames ...what are those.

But dat lower option, yuk....

You'll have to consider the sticker shock that the community will feel when they see $599 again. When you lay out the two options- you have to ask yourself are you willing to sell your old PS4 and spend the money for a new one if it means a consistent locked 1080p 60 FPS and a 4K 30 FPS experience.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I would pay $599 if it meant locked 60fps for most/all games.

But $499 is the sensible choice.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

I know this feel. You have to consider your options if your interested in Neo.

A $499 4.2 TF machine with Jaguar.
or
B $599 6 TF machine with Zen-Lite.

The only advantage is that Sony can defend the original PS4's value and it won't go into the trash. The original PS4 will sit on shelves and remain at a $299/249 level.

I think your original thought of $499 with Zen-lite is the only thing that makes sense and it meshes with what he originally said. I'm not sure I can express how underwhelming your current proposition is. A $100 price increase, but no improvement specs. It makes no sense outside of some serious built-in profit margins for Sony.

 

[autoduelist]

Words don't really capture my feeling on this whole development. I feel... left out? That might be the right word. With kids and limited time, I can only really justify a console 'once a gen' to both myself and my wife. And I hate the feeling of being left behind, as suddenly I'm playing 'lesser' versions of games [especially, how will this effect multiplayer games?].

And then, when PS5 finally comes out, I'm going to be wary about the PS5.5 so I don't even know if I'll buy -that- at launch anymore like I did with the PS4.

So basically, now I don't see myself getting a console till the PS5.5... and by then, maybe I'll have talked myself out of console gaming altogether.

Darn. I really loved the current console lifecycle, with huge jumps at the end. Iterative just doesn't work for me [heck, I still rock an ancient, non-smart flip phone]. I don't buy ipads due to the iterative cycle either [bought a gen 1 right before the first gen, and it quickly became obsolete when they stopped upgrading the OS and everything started to stop working, so I sold it and didn't look back].

So. Yeah. Darn. It's too early to say how this will pan out, but I fear it's the beginning of the end for my console fun.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I think your original thought of $499 with Zen-lite is the only thing that makes sense and it meshes with what he originally said. I'm not sure I can express how underwhelming your current proposition is.That thing would have major profit margin built-in for Sony.

It's not even underwhelming it make no sense and go against the rumors .
As you said Sony would make a nice profit off 4.2 system at $500.

 

[thuway]

I think your original thought of $499 with Zen-lite is the only thing that makes sense and it meshes with what he originally said. I'm not sure I can express how underwhelming your current proposition is.That thing would have major profit margin built-in for Sony.

It's not that simple. In any case, for as underwhelming as my proposition is- consider it a more realistic version that alings better with reality. Pick one- but to be honest, Sony will pick one for you because majority of people in this thread are scoffing at the $599 price point. I don't know how Sony will position a Neo at $499 with Jaguar, but we shall see what happens.


I want the $599 model with 6 TF of performance, but the mass market isn't exactly privy on that price tag.


I've said this a few times - but I'll say it again. A $599 console will insure the original PS4's value is not diluted. A slim PS4 will launch at $299/249 and will continue to sell gangbusters. The $599 console will sit along side it and be position at enthusiasts that want the best performance from games like Uncharted, God of War 4, Detroid, The Order, etc.

 

[kingwingin]

I know this feel. You have to consider your options if your interested in Neo.

A $499 4.2 TF machine with Jaguar.
or
B $599 6 TF machine with Zen-Lite.

The only advantage is that Sony can defend the original PS4's value and it won't go into the trash. The original PS4 will sit on shelves and remain at a $299/249 level.

whats wrong with the ps4 selling bad and then eventually discontinuing it? Like nintendo and their third pillar crap. They dont need to keep selling ps4 consoles if the games are interchangeable

Im just worried because ill have to drop $800 canadian on this badboy and even $499 i was struggling to justify it to myself.

 

[geordiemp]

You'll have to consider the sticker shock that the community will feel when they see $599 again. When you lay out the two options- you have to ask yourself are you willing to sell your old PS4 and spend the money for a new one if it means a consistent locked 1080p 60 FPS and a 4K 30 FPS experience.

You mean sell our 2 Ps4 in the house and my sons at his nans - hell yeah if its sweet 60 console gaming potential for every game.

I would be happy with 4.5 TF and zen, why would I need 6 TF ? 6 TF is pointless, everybody wants 60 FPS if you ask them. Do a survey, the UC4 neo upgrade thread every post was 60 FPS.

The perfect neo would be a 4.5 TF with zen at $499 with no hard drive. Its enthusiast, market it as a machine for high frame rate gaming....they will come. I would upgrade the HD anyway.

 

[sora87]

Smartphone cycle? Like every year? That's just too much for a console.