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Wired: Phil Spencer Interview (Scorpio and VR)

G

gtj1092

Member
Has any of the execs specifically said all Scorpio games will run on X1? Seems like the messaging is upgrade to Scorpio and you can play all your old games. Didn't get to see the conference yet maybe it was in there but all the quotes I've seen refer to BC.
 
E

etta

my hard graphic balls
“Consumer expectation is that, if you wanted to, you could go buy a new cell phone every year. I don’t want to get into that mode with a console,” Spencer says. “I see the next inflection point as 4K, and I want to make sure we have a console there to support that, and Scorpio will do that. We’re not on a hardware tick-tock that says I need to put out a console every two years or every one year to get people to upgrade. That’s not the console model.”
Click to expand...

This is awesome. So no new model releasing every three years, they will just launch something when the next big technological leap is there. 4K and VR now, what's next, 8K?
 
rokkerkory

rokkerkory

Member
gtj1092 said:
Has any of the execs specifically said all Scorpio games will run on X1? Seems like the messaging is upgrade to Scorpio and you can play all your old games. Didn't get to see the conference yet maybe it was in there but all the quotes I've seen refer to BC.
Click to expand...

they said that but if you think about it, VR games will obviously not run on the OG / S xbox ones for obvious reasons
 
F

FacelessSamurai

..but cry so much I wish I had some
Nirolak said:
So every three years it is.
Click to expand...

3 years sounds good honestly, especially with forwards/backwards compatibility. You could change every 3 years, or just buy another one every 6 years because you know all of your games will work on both anyway, just better/worse visuals.

Also, anyone noticed that Fallout 4 VR is only on PC and not PSVR? And Todd Howard was in that Scorpio video, and they all talk about how they need more power for good VR. I feel like developers really need a lot more power to do what they consider full experiences and not gimmicky stuff which is why I think we won't see anything substantial in VR on consoles until we get the kind of power that Scorpio delivers.
 
BFIB

BFIB

Member
Lots of stock being put into VR regarding these machines. I really like my Oculus Dev kit, and my Samsung Gear VR, but I honestly use them for maybe a half hour/hour and I'm ready to get back to my TV.
 
T

TheAdmiester

Member
shandy706 said:
My 980 Ti Classified (6.6TF) does 4k just fine.
Click to expand...

ZOTAC OC version here, but seconded.

I can get 4k60 on any game I want if I lower the settings enough, lower settings is always exactly what you see on consoles. Some very well optimised games even run at 4k60 at max settings.

If I can get that performance out of a 980Ti with the PC overhead then I don't doubt that a 980-equivalent in a console can hit 4k30 or 4k60 with well optimised/lower settings games. No idea why so many people doubt it's possible, it seems like armchair engineers are just desperate to prove MS wrong, the company that's actually building the thing.
 
B

benzy

Member
Spencer calls out the 360-exclusive Japanese role-playing games Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey as his most-wanted games, and says the team is working on getting them running on Xbox One as we speak — and those backward compatible games, too, will work on Scorpio.
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FRSb.gif
 
P

Pif

Banned
Is this the new Cloud Power?

How is a AMD 5.5tflop chip be able to suffice for 4k AAA gaming? I shall eat many frog if it happens, but Phil is in full PR mode here it seems.
 
G

Gren

Member
But just because Microsoft is pushing ahead with a new console so soon doesn’t mean it plans to release them at a faster pace forever. “Consumer expectation is that, if you wanted to, you could go buy a new cell phone every year. I don’t want to get into that mode with a console,” Spencer says. “I see the next inflection point as 4K, and I want to make sure we have a console there to support that, and Scorpio will do that. We’re not on a hardware tick-tock that says I need to put out a console every two years or every one year to get people to upgrade. That’s not the console model.”
Click to expand...
So, there's not taking an iterative approach after all, but rather just jumpstarting the next gen a bit early? That's somewhat reassuring.

So far this whole scenario reminds of when this gen started, but the parties' roles reversed. Guess we'll see in due time if the market really does want incremental hardware upgrades over the classic generational leaps.
 
O

Obscuritas

Member
“Consumer expectation is that, if you wanted to, you could go buy a new cell phone every year. I don’t want to get into that mode with a console,” Spencer says. “I see the next inflection point as 4K, and I want to make sure we have a console there to support that, and Scorpio will do that. We’re not on a hardware tick-tock that says I need to put out a console every two years or every one year to get people to upgrade. That’s not the console model.”
Click to expand...


Finally the "smartphones/smart devices = consoles" argument can die for good.
 
C

c0de

Member
Gren said:
So, there's not taking an iterative approach after all, but rather just jumpstarting the next gen a bit early? That's somewhat reassuring.

So far this whole scenario reminds of when this gen started, but the parties' roles reversed. Guess we'll see in due time if the market really does want incremental hardware upgrades over the classic generational leaps.
Click to expand...

There are no generations anymore. At least for MS. We don't know yet for Sony. And even less for Nintendo.
 
S

shoreu

Member
In Service said:
I can, but I like the idea of the 1080 60fps option. I don't notice the difference much with all of the "p"s but throw me some fps and I'd notice.

Could we get better smoke and particles at 1080p/60fps too?
Click to expand...

Possibly. what would be cool is if the scorpio opens up graphics options for the console.

DarkConfidant said:
Did they ever do cloud computing to make Xbox One games run, or was this some Ken Kutaragi shit?
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Crackdown 3
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
etta said:
This is awesome. So no new model releasing every three years, they will just launch something when the next big technological leap is there. 4K and VR now, what's next, 8K?
Click to expand...

scorpio will barely handle 4k. They'll need another machine in 3 years to properly do 4k.

14nm has lots of room to evolve and there will be significant power increases by then which will be worth taking advantage of.

If scorpio is a 980 level GPU next year, then in 2020 you'd have much bigger chips with much faster memory with HBM2 as well.
 
K

Kill3r7

Member
etta said:
This is awesome. So no new model releasing every three years, they will just launch something when the next big technological leap is there. 4K and VR now, what's next, 8K?
Click to expand...

I hope you are right but the way I see it this is nothing more than a glorified arms race. The key for me is price. If they come up with something competitive I will upgrade. Otherwise, it is time to finally invest in a small form gaming PC.
 
G

GarthVaderUK

Banned
Very happy they're not working on their own VR headset, we don't need any more headsets fighting for exclusive games. If they can support both Vive and Oculus on Xbox, that would be perfect!
 
I

IXI FalcoN

Member
etta said:
This is awesome. So no new model releasing every three years, they will just launch something when the next big technological leap is there. 4K and VR now, what's next, 8K?
Click to expand...

That's how I took it as well. Which is great news for us provided they keep the same ecosystem and just build a box with more horsepower when the time comes, instead of a new gen reset every 5 or so years. The consumer can upgrade when they choose and pretty much not miss a beat in terms of what games are available to them.

Also, this highlights how undercooked the Bone and PS4 really are. Too little too late even at launch. Last gen dragged on way too long; these consoles should have arrived in 2010/2011, when 1080p overtook 720p as the new norm.
 
E

etta

my hard graphic balls
mrklaw said:
scorpio will barely handle 4k. They'll need another machine in 3 years to properly do 4k.

14nm has lots of room to evolve and there will be significant power increases by then which will be worth taking advantage of.

If scorpio is a 980 level GPU next year, then in 2020 you'd have much bigger chips with much faster memory with HBM2 as well.
Click to expand...
Yea that's true, 8K must be at least 8-10 years out.
 
S

soul creator

Member
I'm mainly interested in having this as a more convenient living room VR device. I already have an Oculus Rift, so hopefully it supports that. Currently my more powerful VR PC is in my relatively cramped bedroom, heh.

And yes, I know I can hook my PC up to a TV, but that's a bit of a hassle if I don't permanently want it there.
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Gren said:
So, there's not taking an iterative approach after all, but rather just jumpstarting the next gen a bit early? That's somewhat reassuring.

So far this whole scenario reminds of when this gen started, but the parties' roles reversed. Guess we'll see in due time if the market really does want incremental hardware upgrades over the classic generational leaps.
Click to expand...

Basically, they don't want to be left behind if mass market TV transitions to 4k quickly (the HD adoption was slow, slow, slow, and then quick IIRC). So they want to be positioned to be there when 4K becomes mainstream.
 
S

somuchwater

Member
Microsoft's new approach is all about platforms, and it sounds like they want Scorpio to be a platform for any VR that works with PC. I'm sure it's possible, and with no lock-in, VR makers would be crazy not to jump on that. I think this might actually be a smart move by MS, depending on what kind of uptake we see with VR.
 
R

Ricky Ricardo

Member
Where are all these posters getting the idea that 4K means ultra settings at 60fps?

What current console is running games at ultra settings at 1080p60?

Settings aren't the point and these arguments reek of goalpost moving. They're talking to devs about what 4K and VR needs to happen. Y'all know damn well ultra settings aren't at the top of anyone's list when it comes to console development.
 
S

shoreu

Member
Ricky Ricardo said:
Where are all these posters getting the idea that 4K means ultra settings at 60fps?

What current console is running games at ultra settings at 1080p60?

Settings aren't the point and these arguments reek of goalpost moving. They're talking to devs about what 4K and VR needs to happen. Y'all know damn well ultra settings aren't at the top of anyone's list when it comes to console development.
Click to expand...

this is also a good point. Scorpio might be able to pull some ultra at 1080p60fps tho if that's an option.
 
Z

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
CyberPunked said:
Well, yeah. You lower the visuals enough and anything will run at 4K. But wouldn't you prefer much better visuals at 1080p 60fps, than bad visuals with a good IQ?
Click to expand...

Depends on how the settings scale in a given game, but consoles right now aren't exactly ultra quality at 1080p (or less), so I don't see what the problem is with medium to high settings at 4k. Plenty of games are stunning at med-high settings running 4k 30 fps. That's what MS will be targeting. And in the case of some games (forza) and 2d type games, 4k 60fps.
 
U

ukas

Member
Nirolak said:
So every three years it is.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I'm not really looking forward to that either. It's not like games look horrible now as it is. Just look at Uncharted 4 and we're two and a half years in. The nice part about consoles was that you didn't need to upgrade every few years.
 
O

On Demand

Banned
Consumer expectation is that, if you wanted to, you could go buy a new cell phone every year. I don’t want to get into that mode with a console,” Spencer says. “I see the next inflection point as 4K, and I want to make sure we have a console there to support that, and Scorpio will do that. We’re not on a hardware tick-tock that says I need to put out a console every two years or every one year to get people to upgrade. That’s not the console model.”
Click to expand...

I always thought the cell phone comparison on here was highly exaggerated.

So there will be no set console releases every couple years.
 
KingJ2002

KingJ2002

Member
Hmmm... Reading phil spencer's and andrew house's comments on these new SKU's I don't think they're accelerating the console cycle but rather extending the current one.

this is not the Xbox Two or PS5... it's Project Scorpio and the PS4 Neo... which are still apart of the Xbox One and PS4 families.

The added spec allows for better VR / 4K Resolution support... but remember we're at a point where graphics are hitting the "diminishing returns" wall so many people won't be able to see the difference unless they all upgraded their TV's... which many probably won't do for quite some time.

What this will do is extend this generation even further down the road... maybe another 3-4 years of having two SKU's within the same generation before we see another hardware generation come to pass.

...

As for pricing... my gut says in 2017 Microsoft permenently drops the OG Xbox One SKU and goes with the Xbox One S $299 entry price and Project Scorpio comes in at $399.99 and Sony will follow suit with their PS4 / PS4 Neo combo
 
D

dragonelite

Member
civilstrife said:
Is he really saying a 980 is capable of 4K gaming? Because it isn't.
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Devs will find ways to push 4k gaming, you see more and more research being done in reconstructing images from lower/higher resolution render targets.


Josman said:
So Scorpio is comparable to a 980? I'm guessing both Neo and Scorpio will use the same GPU, an RX 480
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Wouldn't be surprised if the RX 480 is the base card for both maybe Microsoft added some more Compute units to the baseline model.
 
P

papo

Member
This is what Phil said:

“When we started looking at Scorpio,” he says, “we asked the partners, ‘in order to build a true high-fidelity 4K game, what capabilities do you need?’ That’s what we designed Scorpio around. It’s kind of like a [GeForce GTX] 980 card on the PC. I get the capability that I need as a developer to deliver a high-fidelity 4K game. ”
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I don't get why so many of you are taking it completely out of context as in the 980 can't do 4k. It's like you either don't know reading comprehension or just read it the way you wanted to fit you angry narrative. NO HE DIDNT SAY 980 = 4K

Nothing was that was said was a confirmation on any of the spec or anything like that. Some of you just love to overreact.


As for the interview itself it looks promising. The cellphone thing always made sens eto me, but if they are truly looking to build a console as close to the top of the line to get 4k and vr going and stand by it, then that is good.

And hell yes please give me Blue Dragon and Lost Odysser.
 
C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
The idea that the upcoming jump to 4K TVs is what is driving this should be also apparent in the Xbox One S; namely that it is capable of 4K TV / Blu-Ray.
 
cyberheater

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
PC folks trying to figure how a 6TF system can run master race graphics on uber ultra settings at 60fps at native 4K.

The answer is its doesn't have to. I'm sure Scorpios graphics will look just fine at 4K.
 
C

c0de

Member
Gren said:
How so, though? In that one's software library doesn't necessarily start back from zero due to BC?
Click to expand...

For example. Also that several “Generations“ co-exist. With the same game. And not just a short amount of time during transitions.
 
wapplew

wapplew

Member
Whole thing read like someone trying to avoid PR land mine.
Can't say new gen cause early adopter hate that, can't say iterative smart phone model cause console gamers hate that, so what actually is this Scorpio? Make up your mind.
 
T

TheAdmiester

Member
cyberheater said:
PC folks trying to figure how a 6TF system can run master race graphics on uber ultra settings at 60fps at native 4K.

The answer is its doesn't have to. I'm sure Scorpios graphics will look just fine at 4K.
Click to expand...

I think this is the main part people are missing. Like I've already said I can get my PC to run anything at 4K60 by lowering the settings enough. I'm sure you could get 4K60 out of a PS1 if it was just a square moving around the screen.

Consoles can be slightly more optimised and the devs can lower the settings as much as they want to achieve it or just strive for 30fps. It's definitely possible to play at 4k.
 
K

kiguel182

Member
No smartphone model but also no generations?

Then will the games on the next console release still support Scorpio? When does the "no one gets left behind" stops being valid?

Kinda confusing but we'll just have to wait and see. Personally I have no interest in 4K for the near future.
 
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