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Wired: Phil Spencer Interview (Scorpio and VR)

Talax

Member
So if they're targeting 4K with a GTX 980 type device, are we looking at a generation with games that don't do much as far as environment detail and other stuff goes? Because I can't see them pushing both at the same time. Granted I'm no tech wizard but seems kinda impossible to me, especially considering where graphic card tech will have actually reached by Holiday 2017.

They announced too early imo.
 
“Consumer expectation is that, if you wanted to, you could go buy a new cell phone every year. I don’t want to get into that mode with a console,” Spencer says. “I see the next inflection point as 4K, and I want to make sure we have a console there to support that, and Scorpio will do that. We’re not on a hardware tick-tock that says I need to put out a console every two years or every one year to get people to upgrade. That’s not the console model.”

This pleases me.
 

Vol5

Member
Some classics in here. A 6TF closed system can't achieve 4k? Laughable. It will easily reach 4k resolution with bells and whistles.

I just played Uncharted 4 on a 1.8TF system and it ran at 1080p , 30fps and looked fucking mint...on a 3 year old GPU design.
 
Based Phil.

For those that don't know, MS have listened to devs before when making consoles. The whole Xbox 360, Gears of War, and doubling the RAM is testament to that.

You can read about that story here: http://www.1up.com/news/epic-games-cost-microsoft-billion

There is no way, for the OG Xbox One, that they listened to the developers. At least not your traditional ones.

The bottlenecks, Kinect, and TV TV TV? No dev asked for.

The change in leadership at Xbox has seen a huge turnaround in their approach.

I firmly believe that they've taken this decision based on Gamer/Developer feedback.

Bring on Scorpio.
 
jesus, Phil isn't saying there's literally a [GeForce GTX] 980 in the Scorpio, he's saying that they listended to dev's about what gamers wanted, like the [GeForce GTX] 980. The [GeForce GTX] 980 is a graphics card design by gamers for gamers. That's all he's saying.


My gawd people, this thread makes me fear for humanity.
 

ClearData

Member
I hear what he is saying about 4k, but I'm not buying this will do native 4K gaming until I see a Digital Foundry report to that effect.

As far as VR goes I'd prefer they hold off on vague pronouncements regarding what they can do with the power until they have products to show. If Phil wants to compare his unreleased console to a base PS4 that's fine, but it strikes me as a tad odd when the PS4 has an actual HMD solution and 50 games arriving in the launch window. We still don't know what to expect from Scorpio in terms of what HMD will be available or what the games will look like.
 
Really this whole push for 4K is coming too early, the Scorpio is not even close to being able to provide high fidelity 4K gaming. They're going to have to dedicate most of that extra power almost entirely to rendering at 4k. Personally i'd rather see locked 1080p 30/60fps with the power dedicated to making things look prettier. I also don't think the install rate of 4K is even there to justify this push, this is going to be 360/PS3 with the 1080p push. It's one gen too early in my opinion.
 

jfoul

Member
Hell, I'd be happy with Scorpio running games at (1440p) 2,560 x 1,440. Try to also sneak in freesync over hdmi even though it hasn't been approved for an hdmi Revision yet.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Phil Spencer said:
We’re not on a hardware tick-tock that says I need to put out a console every two years or every one year to get people to upgrade. That’s not the console model.

What Spencer said there + OG Xbox BC + Xbox 360 BC + Xbox One BC = me could buy Xbox Scorpio.
 

Venom Fox

Banned
I don't understand this. We know the power of the 980 and the cloud was some ambiguous thing. What do you mean?

There is a $200 AMD card coming out that does 5.5TF factory clocked.

Please elaborate you tech wizard you.

Sounds nothing like this.

Er what?

how is this anything like the cloud?

Guys. It was a joke! Admittedly a shit one lol We already know it's going to have a 480 inside it. Sorry I was out and didn't have Internet.

Edit: I was echoing what people were saying before it was confirmed all that AMD flops compared to NVIDIA flops lol. genuinely didn't mean to derail the thread.
 
jesus, Phil isn't saying there's literally a [GeForce GTX] 980 in the Scorpio, he's saying that they listended to dev's about what gamers wanted, like the [GeForce GTX] 980. The [GeForce GTX] 980 is a graphics card design by gamers for gamers. That's all he's saying.


My gawd people, this thread makes me fear for humanity.

Really nobody knows what he's saying because his words are vague as hell. This whole reveal has been vague and seems to have started a clusterfuck. For example from how I understand things this will be on a AMD 390x level (~6TF) which is about equivalent to a nvidia 980. Others interpreted the "6TF" as it's going to rival 1070.

If it's going to be a 4K machine with a graphics card like a 390x or 980 something has to give, don't expect crazy graphically enhanced games. Expect current gen looking games at medium settings, with 30fps in a higher resolution.
 
Hell, I'd be happy with Scorpio running games at (1440p) 2,560 x 1,440. Try to also sneak in freesync over hdmi even though it hasn't been approved for an hdmi Revision yet.

Maybe they will add DisplayPort on the Scorpio since console's insides are becoming more and more like PCs.
 

sflufan

Banned
I have no doubt this the GPU will be somewhere between an RX 480 and a (currently theoretical but we know is coming) RX 490. If it uses HBM instead of GDDR5X, then it will lean more towards the RX 490 side.

In regard to the GTX 980, think of when Microsoft would have started speaking to developers about what they'd want in a more powerful console. At that time, the most powerful GPU on the market was the GTX 980 which means that developers would have said "Put a GTX 980 in there!" Naturally, we've moved beyond the power of the GTX 980 which means that the final GPU is also more powerful. Phil was using the GTX 980 in a metaphoric sense that developers told him to put "the most powerful GPU possible" inside of the next Xbox.
 
Talks about raw power aside, Microsoft won me over with this announcement based on hardware/software support. Hearing Phil flat out say that accessories/games for Xbox One will continue to work on Scorpio makes me much more confident in investing in my Xbox One with games/controllers.

I'll be really interested in seeing whether this comment applies to the Kinect 2.0 though. Seems like the Xbox One S is already trying to phase it out. I just like mine for the voice commands/Skype calling!
 

Zedox

Member
Hmmm... Reading phil spencer's and andrew house's comments on these new SKU's I don't think they're accelerating the console cycle but rather extending the current one.

this is not the Xbox Two or PS5... it's Project Scorpio and the PS4 Neo... which are still apart of the Xbox One and PS4 families.

The added spec allows for better VR / 4K Resolution support... but remember we're at a point where graphics are hitting the "diminishing returns" wall so many people won't be able to see the difference unless they all upgraded their TV's... which many probably won't do for quite some time.

What this will do is extend this generation even further down the road... maybe another 3-4 years of having two SKU's within the same generation before we see another hardware generation come to pass.

...

As for pricing... my gut says in 2017 Microsoft permenently drops the OG Xbox One SKU and goes with the Xbox One S $299 entry price and Project Scorpio comes in at $399.99 and Sony will follow suit with their PS4 / PS4 Neo combo

This is exactly what I see as well. I'm glad that they aren't doing the phone model and instead actually doing it when they see the technology out there that they should take advantage of. That's actually really smart.

It will definitely extend the generation. We may get another 7-8 year "generation"...and when the next inflection point comes, Scorpio would probably be the base to the next generation of devices. 3-4 years of Scorpio would be good in my opinion before moving on into the next one.
 
4k is possible at 30fps and 60fps on some titles.

GTX 970 stock
Killer Instinct runs 4k 60fps max settings. Lots of headroom for improved graphics as well.
https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7793/27396568540_4536b2dfbd_o.jpg

GTX 970 stock
Forza Apex at slightly higher than Xbox One settings, dynamic scaling off, lots of cars on track with rain runs at 4k 60fps. I should also say reflections are way higher than on XBO as well.
https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7302/27064636333_9427f92e51_o.jpg

GTX 970 overclocked to 1480mhz
Rise of the Tomb Raider at roughly Xbox One settings, 4k 30+fps at the location I'm at. Lowest is 31 and highest is around 37. No judder or dropping frames.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7442/27063015984_fe312fabdb_o.jpg

Please note I'm not saying Assassins Creed Unity runs at 4k with highest/mostly higher settings. Best I can do is 3200x1800 locked 30fps which is still very good and with way higher settings than XBO/PS4, includes HBAO+ etc.

6tlfops is up there with a 390x/980. 390x is 5.9 tflops. My 970 trades blows with a 290/290x. Please stop with the mistake of searching for Titan X/980ti. At the moment we have to go with what AMD is currently producing and their ratings. AMD has to have a card called the Fury X which is 8.6tflops to get close to Titan X/980ti 6tflops.

What some still don't seem to get, PC benchmarks will often run with ultra everything, high AA, some of these setting can cost 15-20 frames and are simply overkill, like shadows. The cost is really high and reward is not much over high or vhigh. Some settings are 2-3 times higher spec than the what the console is running such as AO, PCSS.

Console games will have reduced LOD, AO, custom AF. ROTTR even has selected shadows turned off, no animation on plants for example. On PC you either have them all on or off for shadows. Console games have way more sacrifices going on, sometimes certain things are either missing or on low.

I haven't got time to list the hundreds of games that run at 18-30fps on console. ROTTR for example drops down a lot to 25fps in not very demanding enclosed areas, and also cuts motion blur. On PC motion blur on mine was on at all times. Point is the devs so far don't often stay above 30 anyway. You have some wiggle room if your game is averaging 30-35 frames and dropping 25 at times. Most don't seem to be bothered by this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrUowFjsBwM ROTTR DF video

With 6tflops native 4k 30 is possible and so is 4k 60 for less demanding titles. I'm not saying this will be the norm. Many games at current console settings will run native 4k 30. Some won't. More graphics effects as time goes on will make this less likely.

Since 4k HDTVs are becoming standard when you go to buy a new one. The new Xbox will be able to deliver native 4k content. T10 for example could have some settings paired back for native 4k or give you the 1080p upscale with higher effects etc. just saying what's possible, not what's going to happen, the devs can do what they want according to Phil

There's a decent amount of 4k content you can provide like current titles, older titles plus AA and lower budget games. Games like Shadow of Mordor run at 4k with ease and some PC sites select that title to do 5k testing.

We could have devs exploiting the extra power or they could simply take the XBO version and use that power for 4k, like the games above.

Just like many months ago, I was trying to tell people on here that AMD will offer 390x980 perf at around 150w, therefore a console with this power is not fantasy, or requiring aliens to visit or going to cost $1000.
 
jesus, Phil isn't saying there's literally a [GeForce GTX] 980 in the Scorpio, he's saying that they listended to dev's about what gamers wanted, like the [GeForce GTX] 980. The [GeForce GTX] 980 is a graphics card design by gamers for gamers. That's all he's saying.


My gawd people, this thread makes me fear for humanity.
Well said. Holy shit some people need to be spoon fed I guess.
 

Tryxx

Member
Seems like MS is really going the better route for VR. If they can get the Vive/Rift to function with the scorpio they could honestly take the VR community since it will work both on console and on PC, definitely seems far more attractive then stuck on this console and only this console.
 

Kazooie

Banned
“Consoles created generations that effectively take your library back to zero; we’re trying to think beyond generations and say, how do you bring all the content that you purchased and love from this generation and move it forward with you?”
Brilliant. It's things like this that build trust between a customer and a company.
 

dose

Member
Spencer dissing the PS4 and Xbone for not having enough power, in other words MS know they've lost this gen and want to reset and start a new gen.
 

oldergamer

Member
So if they're targeting 4K with a GTX 980 type device, are we looking at a generation with games that don't do much as far as environment detail and other stuff goes? Because I can't see them pushing both at the same time. Granted I'm no tech wizard but seems kinda impossible to me, especially considering where graphic card tech will have actually reached by Holiday 2017.

They announced too early imo.
If anyone knows wher graphics tech is going, it's Ms. They drive feature support with direct x. Graphic cards end of next year wont have a ton of new features, just more memory and faster/more efficient. The can bet on this pretty safely.
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Microsoft approach to VR sounds like the better one. It gives multiple options and a wider price range.

It is definitely better than Sony's, if only for the fact that Microsoft can, at any moment, support any and all third party VR helmets -- meaning, the one to succeed will be supported (aside from PSVR which will be Sony only obviously). As Spencer said, he believes innovation is maintained and created by the PC, and the XBOX platform will adopt that innovation.

what if Scorpio has better performance on BC games?

What if we get a 60fps Blue Dragon?

I wouldn't be surprised if that was one of the benefits of Scorpio. I kinda expect OG Xbox backwards compatibility with Scorpio.

This E3 wasn't as exciting in terms of games for Microsoft, but in terms of the future and plan ahead, I think Microsoft has the best message.
 

Jumeira

Banned
Do like the idea that Scorpio would support different VR headsets. Being the best solution to a VR box is pretty damn smart. Im more excited for the core games running on this beast though.

Next year's e3 *phew*.
 
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