Yes and how did she managed to stay hidden? By dressing like a man.
IIRC, nobody was under any illusions that Tetra was a girl
Yes and how did she managed to stay hidden? By dressing like a man.
The whole mechanic of this game was that Peach would have mood swings and you would activate each one depending on the situation or puzzle. Cry to water a plant to make it grow, get angry to deal more damage on a enemy, be happy to float into the sky singing like mary poppins, and there was another i cant think of. It was a real bad example of Princess Peach being a real female character. Im not bashing you for posting this (you were just proving that posters mistake), im just now remembering that this was a trip. lol
No but having the first game starring Peach being about emotions is.This actually sounds like a pretty cool mechanic for a video game It's like Inside Out. Why is this considered sexist? Is having emotions derogatory towards women now?
No but having the first game starring Peach being about emotions is.
Why?
Stereotypes about women being more emotional.
I like the game but I can see why it draws ire.
Why?
Describe the following Legend of Zelda character WITHOUT saying what they look like, what kind of costume they wore, or what their profession or role in the game was.
1. Link
God or War isn't the only game with a dude protagonist. The few games that do star a lady don't need to double down on shitty stereotypes.It's sexist if you think Peach is supposed to be a representation of all women.
Kratos is a raging asshole who is a man, but not a representation of men. It's okay to have female characters who are over-emotional, and it's okay to have male characters who are violent brutes who think with their dicks.
God or War isn't the only game with a dude protagonist. The few games that do star a lady don't need to double down on shitty stereotypes.
It's sexist if you think Peach is supposed to be a representation of all women.
Kratos is a raging asshole who is a man, but not a representation of men. It's okay to have female characters who are over-emotional, and it's okay to have male characters who are violent brutes who think with their dicks.
Describe the following Legend of Zelda character WITHOUT saying what they look like, what kind of costume they wore, or what their profession or role in the game was.
1. Link
It's sexist if you think Peach is supposed to be a representation of all women.
Kratos is a raging asshole who is a man, but not a representation of men. It's okay to have female characters who are over-emotional, and it's okay to have male characters who are violent brutes who think with their dicks.
...we wait
Was I wrong on why it was controversial
Dude. Its flat out a crazy concept for one of gamings most popular characters having her first (and i believe only) staring game be about having mood swings in order to traverse through the environment. Mario wall jumps, rides animals and punches. Peach has four moves called Joy, Gloom, Rage and Calm. Its not subtle. This isnt a new discussion, reviewers at the time kind of bashed the game for it.
I will never get this mindset. "It's fine if they map cheat codes to face buttons (FF ports), or if they add in easy mode (Souls series) or if they make the character of dozens of games suddenly female (Zelda), it doesn't affect YOU!"
But it does.
We are social, we don't live in a vacuum, we want to share our gaming experiences but we want those experiences to be relatable to each other.
Implementing an easy mode in Souls removes the achievement of finishing the games, which is what the community is structured around. Built-in cheat codes removes the time and energy investment reward loop inherent to RPG completion. And making Link a create-a-character means you're no longer playing Zelda, you're playing Graal.
"Link could be anything therefore he must be" is silly.
There is value in tradition. There is value in limited choice, and there is value in linearity.
Dude, it's a pretty cool concept for a game starring one of gaming most popular characters. You can manipulate her emotions to create tornadoes, fly through the air, heal yourself, and explode into a ball of fire, becoming invincible and burning enemies around you. Meanwhile, all Mario does is wall jump, ride animals, and punches.
We described the exact same game.It's pretty easy to convince others on your opinion when you use specific words.
Dude, it's a pretty cool concept for a game starring one of gaming most popular characters. You can manipulate her emotions to create tornadoes, fly through the air, heal yourself, and explode into a ball of fire, becoming invincible and burning enemies around you. Meanwhile, all Mario does is wall jump, ride animals, and punches.
We described the exact same game.It's pretty easy to convince others on your opinion when you use specific words.
Its not nearly as cool as you just described. Im done with the princess peach argument.
Why are you defending that game from criticism of perpetuating a stereotype? No matter how cool the creators may have thought it to be, it reflects a stereotype that women are overly emotional. That, along with other instances of tone-deafness on Nintendo's part (which you'll need to be listed out comprehensively), the criticisms are warranted against that game, against Metroid Other M, against Tomadachi Life, against their reasoning for characters in TriForce Heroes, and Aonumams comments here.
Also true. I guess there are some games like those AC spinoffs, fatal frame, Beyond Good and Evil and Mirror's Edge, that new drink box game Severed, that do star someone else. But it's not a whole lot.The ones that do, it's pretty much always a white female.
She didn't dress like a Man, she dressed like a Shiek Warrior / Ninja.
Even if she was disguised as a Man.. isn't that the BEST way to avoid being captured? By dressing as something YOU'RE NOT?
What about WW? She was still a girl, but disguised as a Pirate.
Stop making this about sex. You're grasping at straws at this point.
In The Wind Waker, we had Tetra, an awesome pirate who became Zelda and immediately became less awesome and essentially a damsel in distress until the very end of the game.
TWW establishes "being Zelda" as such a detriment that it actually corrupted Tetra and had her become a damsel in distress in literally less than one minute in Phantom Hourglass.
It's the first and only Princess Peach game and it features abilities created solely for that game. While no Mario character has received extensive characterization, Peach was never portrayed as overly emotional, and having that be a defining trait in her own game from both gameplay and story perspectives has no basis in the character's history. It has no root in the character, and most anyone not playing devil's advocate has been able to extrapolate that it comes from that well-known stereotype.So we aren't allowed to make Video Games were women are overly emotional? What's the 'emotional threshold" when it becomes sexist? Tears? Blushing? Smiling? How much emotion is "sexist emotion"?
You don't remember Wind Waker very well do youFigured it would only be a matter of time before you showed up....
That's your interpretation of what happened. It's your sexist opinion on the role of Zelda in WW. That's how YOU feel, and that's how YOU interpret the game.
I see it as her staying behind to protect what's left of her Kingdom from Ganondorf, sacrificing herself by getting captured, and then using the power of the Triforce to help Link defeat Ganon with the Arrows of Light. The character of Zelda has ALWAYS been about self-sacrifice to protect the people of Hyrule.
If you see her as anything less than that. YOU are sexist.
Daphnes: Zelda... It is far too dangerous for you to join us in this task.
Fortunately, this sacred chamber is not yet known to Ganon. It is my wish that
you wait here in hiding until we return Link! We must go!
Well Ganon is actually only one person. There aren't lots of different Ganons. There are lots of different Links. If Ganon was a reborn new person in most games, sure. That'd be different. That's why the issue isn't "Keeping Link Male". All the previous Links will remain boys. The issue is "Making future Links all male."Why shouldn't Ganon be a female? He keeps coming back to life or reincarnating over centuries. The lore says he's the Gerudo King that is born only once every 100 years, but at this point it sounds like people would feel no qualms in forcing Nintendo to abandon their own lore for the sake of gender options. After all, Ganon doesn't need to be male. Why not just reincarnate the role of Ganon with a Gerudo female?
It's a family name given to the first born daughter. So it's doubtful they'd name the Prince Zelda. However, the 2 incarnations not part of the royal family weren't even named Zelda. So being named Zelda nor being royalty are actually required, so yeah, there totally could have been a keeper of the triforce of wisdom who was a boy. Prince or not. There were likely many many Zeldas throughout history that weren't reincarnations just because it's the Princess name.Why not have the King of Hyrule have a son instead of a daughter named Zelda? Her role is reincarnated through royal birth line. So her gender doesn't need to be locked either.
Yes they have the creative right to tell the stories they want to tell. But how they tell the stories is a reflection on them, and people are allowed to critique choices. Or even express to nintendo what they think of their choices. And Zelda isn't "a character" she's many characters as well. And yeah, they're against Zelda having a playable "aspect" but Link needs something to do apparently... So they can make the next Link a girl, and the next Zelda can remain a secondary character as Nintendo wants to keep her.I find these conversations interesting but ultimately I think Nintendo has the creative right to tell the stories they want to tell, and it's not like they're against playable females. They made Zelda a strong part of Spirit Tracks. They respect Zelda a lot as a character. They made her a battle-ready princess in TP.
Figured it would only be a matter of time before you showed up....
That's your interpretation of what happened. It's your sexist opinion on the role of Zelda in WW. That's how YOU feel, and that's how YOU interpret the game.
I see it as her staying behind to protect what's left of her Kingdom from Ganondorf, sacrificing herself by getting captured, and then using the power of the Triforce to help Link defeat Ganon with the Arrows of Light. The character of Zelda has ALWAYS been about self-sacrifice to protect the people of Hyrule.
If you see her as anything less than that. YOU are sexist.
Well the damsel in distress' archery was the game changer for Link winning against Ganondorf, so there's that...
Contrary to what you feel, Nintendo does not feel Link is a blank slate! Unlike games from Bioware, Bethesda, etc. They see him as a distinct character, and yes I know there have been different Links, but every one has had some similar character traits.
This is a reach that Space Jam Michael Jordan would be jealous of.He made a general statement (about game design) that giving players the option was wrong, as it would dilute the character. Even in his very first post (that I referenced) he said this would violate the values of tradition, linearity and limited choice.
Edit: That said...when it comes to the great characterization of Midna in TP or Zelda in ST...it does diminish Link/the player. But I honestly don't mind. In MM, Link doesn't really matter that much, it's the lives of everyone he bumps into that really has the character and I think that's great.
To play Devil's Advocate, and defend the possibility that the comment made by Aonuma was only a partial response filtered through an English translation:
"What is Link going to do" - What he could be referring to here is that Link represents courage, Zelda is Wisdom, and Ganon is power. This is the balance of the Triforce. So when he says "if Zelda does the fighting, what will Link do?", what he is saying "if we have Wisdom fighting, what will Courage do?". Which does make sense and is less sexist sounding than the initial response, so this could be what he is referring to.
I'm sure you can find interviews of him saying that, however as with most game developers you can find contradictions in what they're saying and what's happening in the game(s)Here's the thing though. That's funny since in half the interviews Aonuma loves just as much to gloat about how the character shouldn't be thought about much and how he's the avatar for the player in interviews so they try not to have him be ultra distinctive and those character traits you listed are immensely broad/common that either a male or female could embody them and the Links aren't even the same person. So even Aonuma himself disagrees on him being a distinct when it's convenient for him. They don't get to automatically without criticism have their cake and eat it too wanting it both ways while pretending it's so impossible.
Meanwhile at the same time, completely writing off the possibility of a mainline Zelda game with Zelda as the player character and protagonist.
What kind of argument is this supposed to be? Couldn't this be used for most if not all male characters from other games, given very few of them have personality traits only men can have? And vice versa of course with female characters. I added in another post once more in that Link manage to befriend many females, and lots of them goes over not so subtle to romance territory. Look at this official trailer for Skyward Sword for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot4QdZrRe54those character traits you listed are immensely broad/common that either a male or female could embody them and the Links aren't even the same person.
I've said this before, but i'll say it again; That seems like a good idea for a spin off title. It's perfectly understandable why they don't wanna do that with the main series.Meanwhile at the same time, completely writing off the possibility of a mainline Zelda game with Zelda as the player character and protagonist.
Wow, first Alison Rapp and now this. Nintendo really hates women.
As it's been said a hundred times before in this thread, "Link" isn't a singular Link. "Link" is a series of characters spread across time, spanning multiple timelines. "Link" is a reincarnation of the same general spirit, but that doesn't mean the outside is the same.
"Link" also usually has the personality of a tortilla chip, with a few small exceptions, and you're usually encouraged to rename them with the player name.
This game even features Link fighting next to Link if you tap the right Amiibo. But they're clearly different. So for the last time, a female "Link" is not the same as a male Samus.
Some people would be fine with that, but Aonuma also made a goofy statement in regard to that.
Each game is a retelling of a hero's story. There wouldn't even be a time line if fans hadn't demanded one. This is irrelevant. A character doesn't need to have a personality to be iconic. Mario and Samus (prior to being botched in Other M) had as much personality as Link. A character can be defined by a look, by movement, by tradition. Link is an elf boy. That's enough. He's not a generic character by the simple fact that you can hold up a picture of Link and have him be immediately recognizable. Like holding up a big circle with two little circles attached and have people immediately say Mickey Mouse.Describe the following Legend of Zelda character WITHOUT saying what they look like, what kind of costume they wore, or what their profession or role in the game was.
1. Link
Oh you mean the iconic female character that got completely destroyed and manhandled by Nintendo themselves by Other M so bad 6 years ago that they don't know what to do with the franchise and thus decided that the first new Metroid release since 2010 was going to be a multiplayer-only 3DS game with an all-male cast and without Samus in sight? That's what we can seek for solace?
Yeah, you're the first person to come up with that. How about a new Metroid? Nintendo has been on top of things lately. I'm sure they're already working on one and that there's no way they'll drop the ball three times in a row./s
...what a baffling interpretation of Wind Waker's story.Figured it would only be a matter of time before you showed up....
That's your interpretation of what happened. It's your sexist opinion on the role of Zelda in WW. That's how YOU feel, and that's how YOU interpret the game.
I see it as her staying behind to protect what's left of her Kingdom from Ganondorf, sacrificing herself by getting captured, and then using the power of the Triforce to help Link defeat Ganon with the Arrows of Light. The character of Zelda has ALWAYS been about self-sacrifice to protect the people of Hyrule.
If you see her as anything less than that. YOU are sexist.
...what a baffling interpretation of Wind Waker's story.
Zelda staying behind didn't accomplish shit. She was hiding in a hole, and every bit of a spunk, determination and confidence Tetra had instantly vanished the second she put on the dress.
This is incorrect, they always intended the games to be connected by time even if they hadn't fleshed out all the details. Zelda 2 was a direct sequel of 1. Ocarina of time referenced Link to the past and even made the Sages names in Ocarina of time the same as the towns in Zelda 2 to show the towns were named after the Sages. It's all one world, not just a simple retelling each time. Twilight Princess Link was trained by OOT Link. Two individual people. Not a retelling. Not the same character. So it wouldn't be simply "putting a bow on Link" because the Links are different characters. You are the one insulting the series by diminishing Link to a mere picture of an elf boy.Each game is a retelling of a hero's story. There wouldn't even be a time line if fans hadn't demanded one. This is irrelevant. A character doesn't need to have a personality to be iconic. Mario and Samus (prior to being botched in Other M) had as much personality as Link. A character can be defined by a look, by movement, by tradition. Link is an elf boy. That's enough. He's not a generic character by the simple fact that you can hold up a picture of Link and have him be immediately recognizable. Like holding up a big circle with two little circles attached and have people immediately say Mickey Mouse.
He doesn't need to be gender swapped and I find the idea a cheap form of appeasement. There are better and far more thoughtful ways to go about better gender representation. Sticking a bow on Link is lazy pandering.
But no one claimed that she did nothing? I even specifically discussed her last-minute de-damseling. That she became a damsel shows just how hard it is to give her an active role (for Nintendo, anyway).
The king was overprotective because if the evil SOB got his hands on her he would take over the world, how would you suggest the story arc for Zelda should have been from that point onwards?
Ever played Spirit Tracks? That disproves the notion that they can't give her an active role.
To play Devil's Advocate, and defend the possibility that the comment made by Aonuma was only a partial response filtered through an English translation:
"What is Link going to do" - What he could be referring to here is that Link represents courage, Zelda is Wisdom, and Ganon is power. This is the balance of the Triforce. So when he says "if Zelda does the fighting, what will Link do?", what he is saying "if we have Wisdom fighting, what will Courage do?". Which does make sense and is less sexist sounding than the initial response, so this could be what he is referring to.