Support NeoGAF

[Dr.Acula]

Playable in alpha for backers. Of course CIG did some work on those systems internally.

So that's a chart complaining about pre-alpha quality assets not being in the alpha? Da fuq?

Someone whip up a pie-chart for Resident Evil 7 where they have "phone answering" in green and "guns" and "zombies" blacked out.

 

[Mr.Sword]

Didn't they say the single player is coming out late 2016?

So it's only few months to get your hands on the game and everything should be clear at that point.

 

[Megalo]

Didn't they say the single player is coming out late 2016?

So it's only few months to get your hands on the game and everything should be clear at that point.

Expect something like early 2017. But we should see a whole lot of new things at Gamescom

 

[RubberJohnny]

So that's a chart complaining about pre-alpha quality assets not being in the alpha? Da fuq?

Someone whip up a pie-chart for Resident Evil 7 where they have "phone answering" in green and "guns" and "zombies" blacked out.

If they've done anything internally on those systems they only just started recently after that chart was made.

There's no evidence they've written even a single line of code, but recently they've talked about those systems, which makes backers optimistic, because they haven't talked about adding them at all for the last four and half years, and they likely won't come out in the next half a year either.

So that leaves room for 4 or so?

I'm all for criticism, but there's enough in the project to pick on without needing to stretch like that.

Do you think a single line adequately encompasses the depth and variety they're aiming for to the point where that massive writeup doesn't count as scope creep?

 

[Zaptruder]

I know full well what I meant

Ok proceed!

 

[Megalo]

If they've done anything internally on those systems they only just started recently after that chart was made.

There's no evidence they've written even a single line of code, but recently they've talked about those systems, which makes backers optimistic, because they haven't talked about adding them at all for the last four and half years, and they likely won't come out in the next half a year either.

There is already some sort of bounty hunting in the alpha. They are well advanced on the mining and they have been working on the economy system for years now. I mean they are 300+ people, with a lot of industry veterans among them. Of course they have been working on these really massive gameplay elements for a long time now, , they are not just browsing 4chan all day doing nothing.

They are extremely open on the game development, but even then, they are hiding a lot of things. The alpha doesnt' represent everything they've done, far from that.

Once again, they are very very open on the developement, people claiming that nothing is going on and that they are just waiting for more money to come are oblivious.

 

[Zalusithix]

Stretch goals are considered feature and scope creep for every Kickstartered project, yes. Look at any interview with a crowdfunded project and they'll talk about stretch goals and controlling scope.

I don't see how "it's been years" matters, the original scope is the original scope, anything added is scope creep. Are you seriously trying to argue the scope hasn't increased at all?

Has the scope increased since the original pitch? Sure. The thing with stretch goals is that they have associated target funding (be it direct or target points for additional external). It's not unmitigated feature creep where they just decide to willy nilly add more features under the same budget. Beyond that, the scope related issues that would cause the most trouble existed either from the get go or damn near after. If the game was doomed due to the scope being too large to handle, it would have been doomed from the start, not due to later stretch goals which were comparatively mundane.

I certainly wont argue that the game doesn't have a huge scope and that said scope is a challenge. Just the same, that scope is what makes it appealing to me as backer. There's enough safe stuff out there.

I guess the crux of the issue is that I see "feature creep" as a negative term where a project scales out of bounds without the planning, ability, or funding to actually reach those goals. I don't view planned stretch goals under the same umbrella. Not all scope increases are inherently a negative thing. I suppose if we define feature creep as a neutral term, I can see eye to eye with most of your listing, but I've only ever seen that particular term used in cases where said features were better off not done. Which going by your listing would more or less mean the whole of SC. =P

 

[RubberJohnny]

There is already some sort of bounty hunting in the alpha. They are well advanced on the mining and they have been working on the economy system for years now. I mean they are 300+ people, with a lot of industry veterans among them. Of course they have been working on these really massive gameplay elements for a long time now, , they are not just browsing 4chan all day doing nothing.

They've been working on Squadron42 as the main project - very few people are working on the PU, maybe 20 in total. Didn't you notice it mostly got SQ42 hand-me-downs?

They are extremely open on the game development, but even then, they are hiding a lot of things. The alpha doesnt' represent everything they've done, far from that..

It represents everything they've done except the seven landing zones in various states of completion. There's the stuff we know about that's not ready yet (proc planets, pirate base), but nothing hidden or yet to leak.

...

Anyway, I found a bunch more scope creep from looking at about 10 or so Reverse the Verse's or 10 for the Chairmans - there's probably another twenty lists this size of stuff they need to add four and a half years in. Funny how many of these have been cancelled already!

• – Carrack should be customizable for use in command and control and prospecting.
• – More Banu ships will be in the game.
• – For smuggling, you need to know what types of scanners you have to protect against and buy/install the appropriate components to mask your illicit goods.
• – Day/night cycles.
• – With the Reclaimer, when you find a ship you want to salvage you can either go over to it and pick the parts you want off of it, or you can just turn the whole thing into scrap.
• – There will likely be some sort of in-universe way to tell how far/long your ship has run.
• – Repair ships can take damaged ships aboard [presumably only if they fit of course] and jump away to safety, if needed.
• - You can perform vandalism and tagging
• – In terms of smuggling, in order to get past the planetside cargo scan (as seen in PU demo video) you will need electronic countermeasures to set off a false cargo manifest.
• – Flying an alien ship, will affect your standing with that race.
• – Pirate, smuggler, drug runner, hacker, militant, terrorist… bad dudes you can be.
• – Organization system will form the basis for the faction system.
• - Organizations will be both player and NPC-run. Smal factions like your friends, organization, and allies, big organizations like the UEE, Banu, Xi’An, and Vanduul
• - There will be shifting alliances. If you choose to be a friend to the Xi’An for example, the Banu and Vanduul will both be displeased with you.
• – You will be able to paint ships.
• – There may be missions in the PU exclusive to those who completed Squadron 42 (The Vanduul have invaded Vega… help!)
• – Space globes will be purchasable and tradable.
• – Arena Commander will exist in the final game. It will be an in-universe video game where you can train/play without the risk of destroying your ship and damaging your character/losing lives.
• – Additional AC game modes and ways of specializing matches, ranked leaderboards and so on. If someone wants to create esports out of this, CIG will support it.
• – Fueling mechanic – they’re working on making hydrogen scoops work.
• – Permadeath solution hasn’t changed yet. There’s a life counter, then you pass stuff over to your next of kin, after they take a chunk.
• – At least one waterworld in the PU
• – There are a bunch of ‘world changing’ events that they have planned for the PU, but they’re not going to take any officially yet. It’s too early yet.
• – There’s a system for the insurance, they’ll never have you pay for something and then take it away from you.
• – Medical profession, like all professions, is something that you can be skilled at and get better at. it will require skill. not just push a button and done.
• – They may do weapon skins, as long as they’re not stupid.
• – You can loot people you kill in FPS
• – Co-op will be in FPS.
• – Cool plans for streaming tech (streaming the game) to come down the line.
• – Characters aging: It will likely be done, however, it is not a priority for the initial launch as it will happen so slowly.
• – You can also allow a character to retire as part of the Death of a Spaceman mechanic.
• – Voice acting in PU with subtitles as a backup.
• - Energy riot shields will be in the game
• - You will be able to share exploration data to friends via mobiGlas.
• - You can fly any ship on your own with NPCs, though it might not be very efficient
• – There will be a military variant of the mobiGlas.
• – Clothing system will allow top hats and space helmets.
• – Yes to melee combat and it will work in EVA.
• – Linux support has been announced. CryEngine supports it, and so can SC. If CryEngine ever supports Mac, then so would Star Citizen.
• – You cannot buy game-character slots with in-game credits. That’s something you’ll have to buy with money outside of the game.
• – Shoulder patch character customization in FPS
• – Starfarer mid-space refueling will probably be similar to mid-air refueling as it is in real life now, but it’ll probably be pretty automatic.
• – There may be the option between manual and automatic for mid-space fueling.
• – The Idris Landing ability is an ongoing term of debate. It will still have protection – same protection as being in a Hangar – but they don’t have a definite option.
• – UEE Environment Coat, like all clothing customization options, will have an impact on your character. In this case… protecting from environmental hazards somewhat.
• – Xi’An Volper bomber.
• – Systems will be in place to prevent insurance fraud.
• – Land based races? Sure!
• – Secret military bases in the PU? Yes.
• – You can melting weapons for metal.
• - SQ42 Similar to Mass Effect, in that the choices you make will roll over to the next games in the series
• – Projectiles have mass, have a base velocity, but the barrel of your gun can adjust the escape velocity. Density of the material the projectile is made of. All sorts of great physics-y things.
• – There’s a big gun in FPS, a cluster bomb that gets fired from a launcher?
• – Weapons – Laser Pistol, Combustion Pistol, Laser Assault Rifle, Burst Cannon, Sniper Rifle, a quick barricade, an electric claymore, a hologram that creates a 3D version of yourself, med kits, frag grenades, EMP grenades, force propulsion grenades, Electric Shotgun. (I might have missed one or two.)
• – Will the grabby hands make dice games and card games and things possible? Yes. It’s designed to be able to pick things up and throw them, so that’s not out of the question.
• – Hyper Vanguard Force might be in the game. They’ve talked about having all the mini games in the final game somewhere.
• - Food/Sleep/Showering will affect the player in a fun way. Lack of showering might affect player interactions/appearance, or lack of food/sleep might weaken the player a little.
• - We can intercept data transmission drones and release them again to stay under the radar as part of the info-agent profession.
• - We will be able to wear backpacks to increase storage capacity, but this might inhibit other things.
• - There will be augments that grant skills or performance enhancers.
• - There will be a Space Craigslist for player trading.
• - Long term you might be able to open a storefront.
• - Pilots can bulkheads/depressurise in their ships as a means to make boarding attempts more difficult.

 

[Raticus79]

Do you think a single line adequately encompasses the depth and variety they're aiming for to the point where that massive writeup doesn't count as scope creep?

You're saying that farming came out of nowhere. I'm saying it was covered under the umbrella of 12 science modules (not all of which were defined).
Edit: could even argue that was intended as part of "narcotics production".

They didn't mention a particle accelerator for ship component upgrade research either, but there's room for that too.

Edit2: guess you're focusing on how there was more detail added in that concept page. Doesn't bug me - to me, they're just fleshing out an area that was previously just mentioned at a high level.

 

[blastprocessor]

The website use to tell you the percentage completion of the various modules but l can't find it now.

 

[Donny]

So that's a chart complaining about pre-alpha quality assets not being in the alpha? Da fuq?

Someone whip up a pie-chart for Resident Evil 7 where they have "phone answering" in green and "guns" and "zombies" blacked out.

Sums up the situation basically XD

They've been working on Squadron42 as the main project - very few people are working on the PU, maybe 20 in total. Didn't you notice it mostly got SQ42 hand-me-downs?

Wait, are you in the dev team? How do you know this for certain?

 

[Donny]

double-post...

 

[~Cross~]

The salvaging, farming and mining systems planned for this game are the definition of over engineered. Like initially if you have said "Oh we have salvaging, farming and mining in the game" it would have been fine. Rudimentary systems for these things aren't really that far off, you can see them in tons of games. Shoot rocks like in elite or eve, grab the loot boxes that people drop when they blow up, add a basic seed system to farm things like in LOTRO or Black Desert.

Of course everything they came up with when selling the ships in their concept sale was taken up to 11. It was very much scope creep.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

What 5 years?
I dont think you understand how complex those ships designs are.

Star Citizen is not game that will be launched and forgotten, but MMO that will be constatly updated. Guys from a design team need a work and Star Citizen need more ships in the end. If you dont like this process, than do not buy into those designs. Its really simple.

They have already had assets before the Kickstarter campaign and still more than the half of their ships aren't playable.

The entire game industry has been shifted towards working per project basis. CIG have already outsourced projects. Any moral argument that "artists need work" is irrelevant when you consider their business strategy. On the other hand, they need to keep a bunch of concept artists to pump the promotional art for ship sales, so I can see how it is profitable for CIG to be frontloaded with concept designers.

You are the single biggest SC defense on Gaf, just look at how casually you throw predictions that it will launch and be successful. The game has pooled all of the good will and pre-order money into the development. Even if they cobble the persistent universe V1 (YEARS AWAY AT THIS POINT), it might be the case in which they don't have additional revenue to maintain, fix and expand it.

 

[staticneuron]

Kind of an important detail that the last stretch goal was set at $65 million 18 months ago and funding is currently at $117 million...

You're talking about the Endeavor which was the $57 million goal. That thing is pretty much scope creep incarnate, but it's not like it was a surprise in the context of the post-KS campaign.

Here is more important detail. That chart that is being used is implying that everything in alpha is everything that is created which is not true.

There technically 33 ships. Included in that number are the idris and the javelin, and two snub fighters. To inflate that number to 77 means they are counting the variants. The working ship is in the game it is just the unique functionality and configuration is missing. It is a type of spin.

CiG is trying to be efficient with their time so the only ships they have released to alpha have been military ships and ships in which the underlying mechanic is close to being finalized. So ships for military and cargo are being released sooner. Ships for mass transport, mining, salvage, exploration, and science (medic and biodomes).

That isn't to talk about the progress of those ships/features, we don't know how far along they really are. They are simply not in the alpha, because there would be no point in having them yet.

Again like I posted before the scope of the game increased from the kickstarter. but it was actually mentioned in the kickstarter that this is something they might do depending on funding received. And they received alot of funding, kept in contact with an active community that within a short time outnumbered the amount of people in the original kickstarter by 5 times. This wasn't just CiG, this was CiG in response to people who backed, asked questions and gave feedback about what they wanted to see.

But even in main thread we are beset by posters who talk about programming cryengine from scratch using only 3 people as an example of CiG wasting money and time. Development of AAA titles "from" announcement to release despite most titles that are announced already have one or two years of work under them and a sizable team. In this case CiG had 8 people working there. We have people talking about not getting any info or seeing code (bugsmashers?) despite community facing videos numbering over 300 (Reverse the ‘Verse: 103, Around the Verse: 100, Bugsmashers: 28, 10 for the Developers:14, 10 for the Chairman:85, 10 for the writers:6 and loremakers: ?) Their youtube has over 500 uploads and they provide information almost on a weekly basis and studio reports on a monthly basis. If you can't be bothered to watch videos you can find transcripts here ---> http://imperialnews.network/. And the lovely nugget of feature scope creep. THERE HAS BEEN NO ADDITIONAL FEATURES ADDED SINCE NOVEMBER 26th 2014. That is one year and eight months, for those who are bad at math. Prioritizing the military aspects (to help with S42 getting out faster) does not mean things have been added. How long are some of you going to continue with this nonsense? I mean, even a little research would prevent you from sounding like spin doctors.

They have already had assets before the Kickstarter campaign and still more than the half of their ships aren't playable.

They had less than 8 people before kickstarter ended and every asset from kickstarter were reworked because of quality, engine, modularity and damage states. I take this type of post to mean people will not stop with the nonsense.

 

[Antilurker77]

They have already had assets before the Kickstarter campaign and still more than the half of their ships aren't playable.

The entire game industry has been shifted towards working per project basis. CIG have already outsourced projects. Any moral argument that "artists need work" is irrelevant when you consider their business strategy. On the other hand, they need to keep a bunch of concept artists to pump the promotional art for ship sales, so I can see how it is profitable for CIG to be frontloaded with concept designers.

You are the single biggest SC defense on Gaf, just look at how casually you throw predictions that it will launch and be successful. The game has pooled all of the good will and pre-order money into the development. Even if they cobble the persistent universe V1 (YEARS AWAY AT THIS POINT), it might be the case in which they don't have additional revenue to maintain, fix and expand it.

The thing is, they don't even have years to spare. Their crowdfunding is down 25% from last year, and still dropping. And that's not including refunds. You think they're moving at a glacial pace now? Just wait until they have to fire half their staff to get by.

This game is sunk and these people are in denial.

 

[boviscopophobic]

THERE HAS BEEN NO ADDITIONAL FEATURES ADDED SINCE NOVEMBER 26th 2014.

There has been nothing they've labeled as a "stretch goal" but that doesn't mean that they aren't expanding their engineering debt with every concept sale. Let's consider the MISC Endeavor (Sep 2015):

– Biodome: Farming in space! This module you allows the Endeavor to grow crops.

– Telescope Array: Tranforms the Endeavor into a mobile observatory.

– Supercollider: Allows the tweaking and overclocking of components.

– Service Equipment and Crew Pod: Additional crew facilities.

– General Research Pod: Experimentation!

– General Science Pod: Science data analysis.

– Fuel Pod: Increases the range of the Endeavor.

– Medical Bay: A full-fledged hospital, can act as mobile respawn location. Often paired with landing bay.

– Landing Bay: Designed to support multiple Cutlass Red ambulances alongside the Medical Bay; however, the landing bay can function alongside science modules as well and host any ship small enough to utilize it.

Still in concept, and introduces four new gameplay mechanics: farming, data analysis, research, hospital. So, it's not a stretch goal, but it is relevant to the discussion of feature creep.

 

[Raticus79]

There has been nothing they've labeled as a "stretch goal" but that doesn't mean that they aren't expanding their engineering debt with every concept sale. Let's consider the MISC Endeavor (Sep 2015):

Still in concept, and introduces four new gameplay mechanics: farming, data analysis, research, hospital. So, it's not a stretch goal, but it is relevant to the discussion of feature creep.

We were just talking about that. Text from the $57 million stretch goal. Oct 2014...

MISC Endeavor-class Research Platform – The MISC Endeavor is the company’s most prestigious ship: a dedicated research platform capable of carrying a dozen different space science packages, running the gamut from advanced long-range scanners for jump point identification to additional shielding for near-stellar corona research. Externally, the Endeavor is dotted with sensor hardpoints; internally, the main compartment is centered on a large research laboratory which can be configured for use by a wide range of scientific disciplines. The Endeavor’s main compartment is modular, allowing an alternate configuration as a Hope-class floating hospital. This variant is employed by the UEE and other organizations as battlefield support, capable of getting Marines and pilots back to the battle as quickly as possible! When outfitted as a hospital, the Endeavor’s docking bay is capable of maintaining a single Cutlass Red ambulance. The Endeavor has also found its way into the service of less reputable organizations, where it can has been modified for everything from narcotics production to black market surgery.

 

[boviscopophobic]

We were just talking about that. Text from the $57 million stretch goal. Oct 2014...

Fair enough, I missed that part.

 

[Raticus79]

Fair enough. I don't see the farming in there though, is that part of it?

Sort of - I was saying that it was broadly covered under the "dozen different space science packages", not all of which were spelled out at the time.

 

[boviscopophobic]

Sort of - I was saying that it was broadly covered under the "dozen different space science packages", not all of which were spelled out at the time.

It still drives home how much remains to be done, if even several of the dozen science modules require new gameplay systems. And that's just for one ship.

 

[Raticus79]

It still drives home how much remains to be done, if even several of the dozen science modules require new gameplay systems. And that's just for one ship.

Sure, I'm expecting farming be far on the back burner relative to the MMO launch, in the realm of other 10FTC "sounds like something we could look at" stuff RubberJohnny mentioned. I wouldn't be surprised if it's just the base ship available at MMO launch with a few modules and other modules being implemented later.

 

[KKRT00]

It still drives home how much remains to be done, if even several of the dozen science modules require new gameplay systems. And that's just for one ship.

Do you really think that those systems will be available only on this ship? Not also on stations and planets? And also other ships in future?

----

They have already had assets before the Kickstarter campaign and still more than the half of their ships aren't playable.

The entire game industry has been shifted towards working per project basis. CIG have already outsourced projects. Any moral argument that "artists need work" is irrelevant when you consider their business strategy. On the other hand, they need to keep a bunch of concept artists to pump the promotional art for ship sales, so I can see how it is profitable for CIG to be frontloaded with concept designers.

You are the single biggest SC defense on Gaf, just look at how casually you throw predictions that it will launch and be successful. The game has pooled all of the good will and pre-order money into the development. Even if they cobble the persistent universe V1 (YEARS AWAY AT THIS POINT), it might be the case in which they don't have additional revenue to maintain, fix and expand it.

What the hell?

Ok tell, when was the last time you really checked out their weekly video or read monthly report?

They are not frontloaded with concept artists ... They also pump up ships in steady rate and actually getting bigger ships done. They have almost all modules and whole pipeline for bigger ships done, so it will speed up process a lot.
The entire game industry also shifted to making safe games.
They are also doing smart designes that are smaller that can be done fully faster like Drake DragonFly which is basically a space bike:

 

[staticneuron]

It still drives home how much remains to be done, if even several of the dozen science modules require new gameplay systems. And that's just for one ship.

They don't. The only thing unique to that ship that no other ship has really included is the biodome.

Ah, time for another star citizen thread filled with people who havent payed any attention to the game, but want to pretend like they know what they are talking about.

I never thought it was going to be this extreme, but you were correct. I will take this as a lesson learned.

 

[Lothars]

Anyone who says this is a scam is trolling. I backed it and look forward to playing it eventually. Good for this person to get a refund though.

 

[atpbx]

The thing is, they don't even have years to spare. Their crowdfunding is down 25% from last year, and still dropping. And that's not including refunds. You think they're moving at a glacial pace now? Just wait until they have to fire half their staff to get by.

This game is sunk and these people are in denial.

In the first seven months of last year they raised 16 million.

In the first seven months of this year they have raised 13 million, thats a huge amount of money still, especially considering how long they have been funding for.

There were people proclaiming to all and sundry they would never hit 10 million.
Then 25 million.
Then 50.
Then 75.
They definitely won't hit a 100 million.

Nope that's it now, unsustainable past 100 million.

117 million, yep, running out of money now, no more money for CiG now.

What are you going to come up with at the end of the year when they are sat on 125 million?

 

[boviscopophobic]

Do you really think that those systems will be available only on this ship? Not also on stations and planets? And also other ships in future?

Scope creep doesn't get less scope creepy just because you can amortize it over yet more unproduced or unannounced assets.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Expect something like early 2017. But we should see a whole lot of new things at Gamescom

If 2016 ends without S42 completed, launched and reviewed, there will be smoke in the city. Count on that.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Im a backer, not too much money in so i dont really stress over a release date, even though i think its really badly managed. I stopped following the community after peoples were excited for towels... freaking towels really.

 

[joecanada]

Technology. The problem is that what SC tries to achieve is something that has never been done before. Especially in network environment.
You cannot do the same thing SC before CIG, because CIG has already years of tech advantage.
Elite actually will get expansion at the end of the year with multicrew ships. But they will be limited to 4 players and players wont be able explore ships. They will be fully seated in cockpit.


Its actually quite amazing that 1+ year ago people were saying that CIG is doing impossible project. That its a pipe dream. Now when we have baby PU and most of the core challenging systems working + procedural planets, that were planned to be maybe viable in 2-3 years from now, people are asking why game is taking so long.

I don't doubt that they are working on some amazing things, but the big question is are they amazing enough for people to drop elite dangerous or no mans sky and just line up to buy the game.... or will it just be another space sim with "oh this one has this awesome feature but that one has that awesome feature". Not saying there isn't room for multiple space sims out there but the chances that this becomes THE space sim seem pretty low especially as time goes on and on. the things you mention (which I have no clue about by the way) could be stolen, copied, they could lose vital programmers who may move off to other projects, etc.... also you already mentioned that elite D is working on similar elements so people may enjoy them even without advanced options, so that is also the risk of putting so much into features, the average gamer may or may not appreciate the depth and complexity you put in. they may simply say elite D solution is fun and "good enough".

I have great hopes that I will spend years playing this as the original wing commanders, but sometimes less is more, I am worried there will be altogether too much of everything and not enough core gameplay, fun, etc... And also that they have tried to do too much at once.

 

[Antilurker77]

In the first seven months of last year they raised 16 million.

In the first seven months of this year they have raised 13 million, thats a huge amount of money still, especially considering how long they have been funding for.

There were people proclaiming to all and sundry they would never hit 10 million.
Then 25 million.
Then 50.
Then 75.
They definitely won't hit a 100 million.

Nope that's it now, unsustainable past 100 million.

117 million, yep, running out of money now, no more money for CiG now.

What are you going to come up with at the end of the year when they are sat on 125 million?

What matters is getting a consistent amount of funding to cover their costs every year. At this rate, their funding is going to drop below their expenses. They'll have to cut something somewhere, which will slow this game down further.

 

[ffejeromdiks]

Antilurker confirmed for being Derek Smart undercover.

 

[Jeremy]

I decided to buy a ship during a sale and was shocked at how little content was in the game. As far as I could tell, there was just a hanger you walked around. I expected it to be much further along than that.

 

[ffejeromdiks]

I decided to buy a ship during a sale and was shocked at how little content was in the game. As far as I could tell, there was just a hanger you walked around. I expected it to be much further along than that.

Isn't that on you though? Why would you not do any research as to what you're buying? There's quite a bit more now, a single star system.

 

[anothertech]

will it ever be finished?

FTFY

And the answer is no.

 

[Raticus79]

I decided to buy a ship during a sale and was shocked at how little content was in the game. As far as I could tell, there was just a hanger you walked around. I expected it to be much further along than that.

Isn't that on you though? Why would you not do any research as to what you're buying? There's quite a bit more now, a single star system.

To be fair, they could do a lot to improve the new user experience. Easy enough when using guides, but people expect to be able to figure things out on their own, which can be frustrating here. Didn't help that the tutorial had its own set of unique issues leading to it just being disabled.

At the time, Jeremy probably would have needed to hit Escape to get into Electronic Access, open Arena Commander and actually fight stuff. (or roam around and eventually figure out that you need to hit the Use icon on that chair instead of your ship)

 

[Jeremy]

Isn't that on you though? Why would you not do any research as to what you're buying? There's quite a bit more now, a single star system.

I'm definitely not angry at myself but I definitely should have done more research. Everyone seemed so excited about the sale, I dove in not realizing they were excited to have a lower "buy in" price. I'm more pointing out that there's still not too much there after the amount of time and vast sum of money that's been put into it.

I did look and see the "Large World" portion on the website just now. Is that implemented? That seems like the beginning steps of what I imagined the alpha to be when I bought in.

Also, I'm not trying to prod or troll, I don't know a ton about game development, especially of this scope. I believe the ideas of the game are probably way beyond anything else being worked on right now particularly.

 

[Raticus79]

I did look and see the "Large World" portion. Is that implemented? That seems like the beginning steps.

Yup, check out the alpha thread. I haven't updated much between 2.0 and 2.4, so it doesn't cover earning alpha UEC currency and shopping for clothes and stuff, but there's some info in there about the multiplayer space.

 

[Jeremy]

Yup, check out the alpha thread. I haven't updated much between 2.0 and 2.4, so it doesn't cover earning alpha UEC currency and shopping for clothes and stuff, but there's some info in there about the multiplayer space.

Thanks for the link. You seem to be the most knowledgeable about the game around and I'm sure you've posted on it plenty of times before but what do you think about all of it? I mean, do you think we will we ever see the full fledged Star Citizen package (SQ42, etc.) or even a 1.0 that's fully functioning? When do you think we'll see it if so? Do you like the "focus" on clothing and accessories for avatars before primary game functions? Is the proverbial 'smoke' there just waiting to engulf CIG and RSI? Just trying to get someone who really keeps up with the games' thoughts. It seems like an important discussion to have albeit not going "YEP, THIS GAMES NEVER RELEASING" and not returning to the thread.

 

[Raticus79]

Thanks for the link. You seem to be the most knowledgeable about the game around and I'm sure you've posted on it plenty of times before but what do you think about all of it? I mean, do you think we will we ever see the full fledged Star Citizen package (SQ42, etc.) or even a 1.0 that's fully functioning? When do you think we'll see it if so? Do you like the "focus" on clothing and accessories for avatars before primary game functions? Is the proverbial 'smoke' there just waiting to engulf CIG and RSI? Just trying to get someone who really keeps up with the games' thoughts. It seems like an important discussion to have albeit not going "YEP, THIS GAMES NEVER RELEASING" and not returning to the thread.

Tough call. The regulars in the alpha thread are doing a better job of keeping up with it than I've been. Gamescom should be really interesting and help nail things down a bit better. Personally, I'd realistically put it at early 2017 for the launch of the first part of SQ42 (out of three). Probably another 2 years after that for the initial launch of the MMO, but that's getting into tales-from-my-ass territory since no one really knows.

The MMO launch is going to be a matter of drawing a line and saying "this is good enough to get started". They've said that it's not guaranteed that all the ships will be in on the MMO launch. They'll never really be done, since there's no shortage of ideas.

Biggest challenge I see for them is physics in a multiplayer environment. I think they'll need to tone down their ideas for cargo to stop the server from crashing whenever a Hull E is destroyed and a thousand or so crates of free-floating cargo are added to the mix.

 

[KKRT00]

I don't doubt that they are working on some amazing things, but the big question is are they amazing enough for people to drop elite dangerous or no mans sky and just line up to buy the game.... or will it just be another space sim with "oh this one has this awesome feature but that one has that awesome feature". Not saying there isn't room for multiple space sims out there but the chances that this becomes THE space sim seem pretty low especially as time goes on and on. the things you mention (which I have no clue about by the way) could be stolen, copied, they could lose vital programmers who may move off to other projects, etc.... also you already mentioned that elite D is working on similar elements so people may enjoy them even without advanced options, so that is also the risk of putting so much into features, the average gamer may or may not appreciate the depth and complexity you put in. they may simply say elite D solution is fun and "good enough".

I have great hopes that I will spend years playing this as the original wing commanders, but sometimes less is more, I am worried there will be altogether too much of everything and not enough core gameplay, fun, etc... And also that they have tried to do too much at once.

Ok let me show you a difference between Elite and SC.
In Elite you are ship, you fly with it, you land with it on the station, you switch to buggy to drive on barren planets. At the end of the year, you will be able to do all this stuff with 3 of your friends in one ship. This wont probably change for at least a year.

In Star Citizen though, you can get to a small ship, then fly to hangar of bigger ship where there are your friends.
You leave your ship, walk up to your friends and take a sit (or not) and then all of you go to a station or a beacon.
On this station or a beacon you encounter damaged ship. With your friends you walk through the door to space and the fly in your suit (like on video below) to this ship
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpTOMNzIvmc
On ships there are hostiles and the gravity is turned off. You fight in zero G with hostiles.
You then fix the ship and take it yourself, while rest of your friends get back to previous ship.
Then you decide to go to planet surface on the system.
On this planet you get into the buggy or a tank and explore surroundings. When you encounters Vandull's base you attack it, from any angle you want.

All of that is promised to be possible at the end of this year.

To how complex it is just think about that they have solar systems that have million kilometers and their biggest ships are bigger than three Battlefield maps. Those ships moves in those solar systems in multiplayer environment.
On those ships you can have other big ships and dozens of players running around doing stuff.
No imagine that two of those ships meet and start to fight between each other. Compare that to any other game you know

NMS is a singleplayer game, so its not comparable to Elite or SC.

---
You cannot just steal some code and apply it to other engine.
You cannot transfer few engineers and then quite fast replicate complex systems, because they need to be integrated into core modules of the engine. Also all assets need to work with those systems.

 

[Eolz]

Some people are defending SC a little bit too much, but at least they understand how game development works. Ridiculous claims by some posters.

I guess we just have to deal with the fact that every Star Citizen thread is gonna be a clusterfuck. Feels bad for the hundreds of devs working on it, I hope they don't lurk around here.

On topic: good for him.

Some do.

 

[Megalo]

If 2016 ends without S42 completed, launched and reviewed, there will be smoke in the city. Count on that.

Well, so be it. That won't stop them from making the game.

 

[CyberPunked]

3.7 years so far doesn't seem unreasonable for a game of this scale. Out of curiosity, what game of this scale is there to compare to? Elder Scrolls Online took 7 years of development with a fraction of the scope and ambition.

 

[gatti-man]

3.7 years so far doesn't seem unreasonable for a game of this scale. Out of curiosity, what game of this scale is there to compare to? Elder Scrolls Online took 7 years of development with a fraction of the scope and ambition.

Yeah this is my take. I never expected this game to even make 2016. I figured squadron 42 for mid to late 2017 and if that's good and sells then star citizen will follow it in 2018-2020. I just keep watching so I can build a huge rig to meet whatever ultra specs are for this game. Even if it's terrible I'm all in for a Chris Roberts game.

 

[Aselith]

That's not necessarily an accurate read. They have one star system in beta but they wouldn't release a bunch of half finished systems to the beta branch. Same with everything else. Not in a beta testing bed does not mean not being worked on.

 

[Chipopo]

That's not necessarily an accurate read. They have one star system in beta but they wouldn't release a bunch of half finished systems to the beta branch. Same with everything else. Not in a beta testing bed does not mean not being worked on.

That is the state of the game in its current open-development alpha. 3.5 to 5 years, depending on when you measure the development start time, and the vast majority of systems aren't even in alpha stage yet. It's taken them months just to iron out the 2.4 patch features, and the game is still littered to the brim with bugs and has almost unplayablly low FPS. And that's with a 24 player cap. At the current rate, it's not far fetched to assume it will take years before the content they initially described will even reach the beta stage.

CIG themselves expected these systems to be implemented far faster. These are things potential consumers should be made aware of.

 

[Aselith]

That is the state of the game in its current open-development alpha. 3.5 to 5 years, depending on when you measure the development start time, and the vast majority of systems aren't even in alpha stage yet. CIG themselves expected these systems to be implemented far faster. These are things potential consumers should be made aware of.

Yes, it's taking longer than they initially planned that's not a question for anyone. What I'm saying is that the playable parts of the system don't represent a full look at where the game is. Things can be mostly finished or partially finished without being playable and people should also be aware of that when they look at that raw ass info.

They push some stuff that's complete or complete enough out to the alpha playable build to test while other stuff is being worked on.

What I'm saying is that a lot of things might be 70% complete i.e. not ready to push while that stuff is 99% locked in. You've got a list there of stuff that's essentially done for a project in active development which is disingenuous.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

That's not necessarily an accurate read. They have one star system in beta but they wouldn't release a bunch of half finished systems to the beta branch. Same with everything else. Not in a beta testing bed does not mean not being worked on.

I think you're the one who misread it actually. It says completed so the fact that they have multiple in testing doesn't change the fact that they haven't been completed.

 

[Chipopo]

Yes, it's taking longer than they initially planned that's not a question for anyone. What I'm saying is that the playable parts of the system don't represent a full look at where the game is. Things can be mostly finished or partially finished without being playable and people should also be aware of that when they look at that raw ass info.

They push some stuff that's complete or complete enough out to the alpha playable build to test while other stuff is being worked on.

What I'm saying is that a lot of things might be 70% complete i.e. not ready to push while that stuff is 99% locked in. You've got a list there of stuff that's essentially done for a project in active development which is disingenuous.

Well then perhaps we can agree that if there is extensive progress behind the scenes that CIG should probably start showing it off sooner rather than later.

Today Disco Lando said something on AtV that I think is very true. In essence, you can design something really cool in isolation, but the real test is when you try to integrate it with all the other systems in the game. That's when things start going haywire. So while I'm sure there are a lot of really cool demos and procedural gen tech and isolated sci-fi environments being built at CIG, it doesn't mean very much until I can see it integrated into a seamless working product. And it can take a very, very long time for these systems to work with each other when you build a game from the top-down like that.