This is what I'm afraid off too. They are making a ton of modules but how is it going to all come together on the fly like they are selling.
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Star Citizen Backer Successfully Gets $2550 Refund
- Thread starter wesleyshark
- Start date
Blizzard space-sim confirmed.
They do though. They have shown numerous "behind the scenes" looks at upcoming work at their cons and in developer diary stuff. The only thing we don't know is how far along those systems are in totality.
If it's tiring, it's only because there are people so invested in shitting on the game. Mostly the long "defenses" are just people correcting misinformation about the game and how game development actually works.
Not trying to troll or anything and being completely objective, when do you think that you'll be eventually able to stop having to defend it and have a thing that is worthy of what was claimed, cause then the "shitting" would stop or at least be significantly reduced.
Whenever the first expansion is released probably. I'm sure there will be some bugs and performance issues in the initial release of the persistent universe what will mean the project was a flop and whatever. Squadron 42 could come out and be great and it would not be enough for people to admit maybe the game will get made.
You dont even understand how big additional work CIG needs to do to create those public branches that are somehow polished and playable by thousands of concurrent players.
Making patches and public releases slows down the development of the game significantly, but they want to do it, do get the feedback from community and do load tests from the get go.
Can i also ask if you have ever worked in software development environment?
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When S42 will be released.
Problem is that people who trolled and shit on this game, wont admit that they were wrong, they dont make a reflection about how stupid was everything they wrote. No, they will move to other game that shows active development and shit on those.
Its so pathetic ;/
And i think that developers from CIG need to be defended by community when they are called names or project is called as a scam. Its disgraceful.
I used to say this as well but the government has weighed in on this and declared these are payments with expectation of product delivered. The donation argument is dead in this country and it's just as well.
I've been comparing this game to GTA and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for 5 years max. If they can't produce something when they have been given exactly the funds they needed before even going after angel investors then they're fucking up.
RubberJohnny
Banned
I think SQ42 will release, it's a much smaller and less ambitious game, and crucially there are hundreds developers actually working on it. I don't think it will sell to many people not already on board, review very well or be very polished.
It's the Persistent Universe that has the insane scope, years of promises and so on that they'll never be able to make.
I mean, no one has even explained how they plan to make a massive MMO like this with about twenty developers when everyone is on SQ42 Ep 1-3.
exmachina64
Banned
Sorry, did you ever source your claim that only twenty developers are working on the PU?
RubberJohnny
Banned
Everyone is aware of it, no one really says otherwise - ask anyone on the official forums or reddit, they'll all give that as an explanation for why everything is so slow, why it took six months to add "saving the game".
It's all in the ATV and RTV shows. CIG put the figure at "roughly half and half" back in 2015, saying that F42 in the UK was all SQ42 and the US was PU. Since then they started F42 Germany, greatly expanded the UK studio and Germany and have said that some of the people in the US studios are also working on Squadron42.
That pirate base they're adding? They had to outsource it. If they don't have the resources to add a single space station, how are they developing all these 100 landing zones?
Iced_Eagle
Member
Here is the breakdown from 8 days ago on what every studio worked on (note Sq42 is generally not talked about heavily in these due to spoilers): https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15408-Monthly-Studio-Report
It's pretty easy to see that there are more than 20 people working on the PU side of things. It's also not quite so clear cut in terms of work for Sq42 and PU. For example, Sq42 needs certain ships to be used in their campaign. These same ships also exist in the PU. Thus, let's say the LA art team may work on a ship which will first be used in the Sq42, an easy example might be the Idris. More examples being the updated interaction system, or even core things like the item system which will all be used in both areas of the game.
Outsourcing is extremely common in AAA games. Just to give you an example, The Last of Us was outsourced to EIGHT different companies for its art. That's not including any code outsourcing either, that's purely art. However, Naughty Dog creates the core systems, key assets and defines the direction. After all, do you really want to use a Naughty Dog artist to spend weeks modeling random plants or other filler stuff? Or should they be working on the huge environmental set pieces and character art instead and merely guide another company on the sometimes more tedious work? That's just life when you need to create so many assets. Thus, CIG has their artists working on the key assets, different rendering techniques, etc. Years ago, CIG artists did create things like the hangars when doing it the first time, so at this point there's probably tons of concept art and direction they can give a company and come back with a good result. Outsourcing is not some sort of inherent sign of weakness in a company like you seem to imply it is.
I do very much doubt they'll do a 1.0 launch with the large amount of landing zones they have planned to be fair. Even with outsourcing, I think that they'll just roll them out post-release. There's going to be a good amount of stretch goals which will be like that where they probably won't be there day one, but will come after the "1.0" release. As long as all of the major features are in, and there's enough interesting content and have a roadmap for the rest, I'll be satisfied as long as the game is fun.
RubberJohnny
Banned
Not really, the only studio working on it is Austin and it mentions their responsibilities are split between a bunch of different areas like IT backend, live ops, QA and so on. You might have noticed the ships that get developed are the ones that are needed for SQ42, like the Herald and Starfarer.
This is a very legitimate fear, obviously we know about the case of Star Marine, but let's talk about "grabby hands", the object manipulation system that would let you pick up items with the fidelity of something like Tabletop Simulator - from RTV 46:
Then it disappeared for 9 months, and then we get told that like Star Marine "it's actually already in the game". I.e they couldn't integrate it, so are pretending those pick-up gun animations Crysis does and CryEngine supports by default are the feature.
And y'know, stuff not always working out is regular game development, but then why lie about it? They always lie and that makes them seem very untrustworthy and shady, especially with other peoples money.
You think the procedural planet tech worked on by the LA studio is exclusively for SQ42?
qa_engineer
Member
Still not finished and still does not run that great even.on high end hardware.
RubberJohnny
Banned
They mentioned it is used for SQ42 in the latest ATV, so it seems to be another hand-me-down.
You think most of the developers aren't working on SQ42?
Do you think that the game assets for S42 are only for S42? Aren't these assets going to be on the PU? So, how can you claim for certain that if they're focusing on S42 is a bad thing?
For what ? Not releasing the most ambitious game ever in 4 years starting from scratch with no studio ? Their mistake was to give people deadlines that they couldn't reach, that's it.
kimifan141
Member
I am a backer as well gave up on the project and its promise a long time back got sick of reading the useless updates. i just hope they throw the game on steam with some trading options.
the sandi episodes are just the worst , checked out the hanger as well meh i think they are overhyping the whole things instead of just releasing someting proper and working on it for addons
the sandi episodes are just the worst , checked out the hanger as well meh i think they are overhyping the whole things instead of just releasing someting proper and working on it for addons
RubberJohnny
Banned
I explicitly called things the PU gets "hand-me-downs from SQ42", so I've no idea how you took that as me suggesting everything stays in its box.
The point is they're not progressing the Persistent Universe at full pace while so much effort is on SQ42. Look at Chris talk about the PU and he's always bored and disinterested, watch him talk about SQ42 and he's hyped up, it's the only bit he cares about - being a director again.
SQ42 takes place in a single star system, so at best all this effort gets them 1/100 systems, some nice tools and tech, but no actual progress to mechanics that aren't combat, no progress to landing zones or community features or better netcode. And SQ42 is going to eat up those resources until 2017, and then onto Episodes 2 and 3, which will be what, 3 or 4 years each? 2024 before Star Citizen can start being developed properly?
No one has yet acknowledged or talked about this, instead trying to shoot down the premise even though it relies on CIG's own words.
I don't get scam complaints when I gave money years ago with the ambitious plans I had no expectations of it being complete anytime before 2016 and it'll probably be later than that. Some people just don't understand how long a project this big would take, if back then years ago I knew it wouldn't be out in 2016. We've just been able to see it from very near to its beginning with constant updates but the truth is it's hard work that takes a lot of time. If it was in production at a big publisher without letting the public see it for a few years this year would probably be when it gets shown first and then the wait seems shorter to people when really they just learned about it later in the process.
i still cant believe how this game has so many defenders, the game feels like an steam early access game, sure there are a lot of promises but they are just tha promises. I tried the game like half a year ago in a free weekend and as a fan of space sims i have never been as letdown as i was with what i played. If the game ends up being good after gazillion years i'll happily play it, however at this point this seems like a ne duke nukem forever.
UserDoesNotExist
Member
To add my voice to the litany, this game is a great example of why, much as we may grumble about them, good management is more important for a successful software project than haxx0r cd3r $ki77z. And I say that as someone who develops code for a living.
PSFan
Member
Do any of these crowdfunded games ever get finished and released? Many years later I'm still waiting for Hat in Time. I also backed a new 7th Guest game that never happened.
And these two experiences prevented me from backing Yooka Laylee. I'm really getting a bad taste from the crowd funding stuff to be honest.
And these two experiences prevented me from backing Yooka Laylee. I'm really getting a bad taste from the crowd funding stuff to be honest.
RubberJohnny
Banned
So I've been going through the video series that the head guy, Chris Roberts put out, and there's just even more hilarious scope creep they're never going to be able to deliver on!
Have they done the mocap for the alien martial arts yet? How's the Nemesis system coming along? How many of these FPS dungeons will there be across these 100 Star Systems, and what in-world lore or faction things are they based on? Any finished art for the pets yet? Not a single line of code or art asset for any of this exists.
They need a publisher to actually get this focused, de-scoped and be able to put something out.
Have they done the mocap for the alien martial arts yet? How's the Nemesis system coming along? How many of these FPS dungeons will there be across these 100 Star Systems, and what in-world lore or faction things are they based on? Any finished art for the pets yet? Not a single line of code or art asset for any of this exists.
They need a publisher to actually get this focused, de-scoped and be able to put something out.
There are plenty of successful released well-reviewed crowdfunded games.
Or some more informed people just believe in it :thinking:
Dictator93
Member
Considering subsumption AI (aka stuff on the universe macro server or actual AI) is not in the release client yet, the nemesis system is not in. There is the bounty and reward system and pvendetta like stuff for player interactions atm.
I get that there's risk in crowdsourcing, but I feel like there needs to be some clause where if the scope of the project changes so drastically, or if the creator hasn't delivered anything by their initial estimates dates, then the backer needs some way to get out. Somewhere, at some point in this magical journey, the creator needs to be held accountable.
Plenty. Pillars of Eternity, all 3 Shadowrun, Divinity Original Sin, Wasteland 2, and much more.
wow look at the facebook comments for the Free Fly announcement:
https://www.facebook.com/RobertsSpaceIndustries/posts/1109840869057934
There really doesn't seem to be many places on the internet left, outside of the dedicated fan-sites, where people have a positive outlook for this project...
https://www.facebook.com/RobertsSpaceIndustries/posts/1109840869057934
There really doesn't seem to be many places on the internet left, outside of the dedicated fan-sites, where people have a positive outlook for this project...
RubberJohnny
Banned
There's no indication it's ever been worked on, no one has talked about beyond this single comment from CR, I've gone through all the ATV and RTVs. It's nonsense, fantasy.
Evolution of Metal
Member
Or perhaps the fan base could stop believing those pipe dreams and demand a much smaller scope project that might be possible to pull off within two years from now.
RubberJohnny
Banned
I think as long as Chris Roberts is in charge that's not going to happen, just look at Freelancer. He needs someone there forcing his hand.
He combines Molyneux style overpromising with Romero style overspending and Ken Levine style perfectionism and reworking.
What character rig are they on now, the 11th? And it still sucks.
wesleyshark
Banned
There's no indication it's ever been worked on, no one has talked about beyond this single comment from CR, I've gone through all the ATV and RTVs. It's nonsense, fantasy.
lmao I haven't seen that strip before... fitting
But then again, you can't argue that the PU is getting 'hand-me-downs' from S42 if all the stuff in S42 will be in the PU.....
RubberJohnny
Banned
That's exactly what it means? What part of this concept are you having trouble with?
This is ridiculous.
Sq42 is all that matters to me too. If sq42 isn't good then SC won't happen. It's as simple as that.
Didn't comment on it because that's been the plan all along. Didn't think of it as significant. (On topic, that's why the "not the product I pledged for" premise is a bit shaky IMO - the single player game still comes first)
So in your view, anything potentially applicable to both Squadron 42 and MMO gets ruled out... well yeah, guess that doesn't leave much. Focusing resources on SQ42 first when they committed to delivering it first is a problem? If they did it the other way, you'd just be complaining about that instead.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You expected the game to be a finished a year and a half ago when the game was absolutely in a much worse state than where it is today?
RubberJohnny
Banned
That's very revisionist, there's statements from CIG in this thread that development was half-and-half, and then they put the game that most backers are interested in the most, the one they can actually use those ships they're buying, into maintenance mode (and not communicated this well, there's backers in here still trying to argue that it's not).
It seems very shady, and also not a great strategy - people are already buying fewer ships because of the stagnation, and they're going to be reliant on SQ42 sales to make up that income, but it's not going to have any marketing budget.
Would you say it's close to 50/50 if you count things applicable to both?
RubberJohnny
Banned
Not even close, like 90/10 at best.
I'd be incredibly concerned if SQ42 was developing as slow as the PU
ultrazilla
Member
I have a funny feeling they'll get S42 out(my personal opinion is that they're burning through big money and at least want to get S42 out) and then things on their end will slow to a crawl as the money shrinks.
It's too ambitious and he continually feature creeps the game on top of that.
I bought in because I thought he could pull off his original vision. Now? I think we'll be lucky to get S42.
It's too ambitious and he continually feature creeps the game on top of that.
I bought in because I thought he could pull off his original vision. Now? I think we'll be lucky to get S42.
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