MilkyJoe
Member
War, war never changes.
dulce et decorum Est
EDIT ;this fucking phone...
War, war never changes.
Man how can you guys have a conversation about the same information released several months back and it be so many post about the same thing over and over again?
so populations won't move from PS<-->MS in any large numbers.
I find it really odd that Sony hasn`t started the Neo marketing or provided us with any real announcement. If the Neo will release in October, E3 would have been the right time to announce it. Microsoft on the other hand announced the Scorpio.
I find it really odd that Sony hasn`t started the Neo marketing or provided us with any real announcement. If the Neo will release in October, E3 would have been the right time to announce it. Microsoft on the other hand announced the Scorpio.
It is another PS4 (at minimum double the GPU power), etc., that plays the same games. They are not launching a new platform. They do not need that large of a window. We can get the very same info with a shorter window. They are still in the market to sell PS4's that are on the shelves now.
We would never have heard the Scorpio announcement at this E3, if marketshare roles were reversed.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/916373-pc/68257391
The terminology is all mucked up though, yeah. But their slide deck there mentions a resolution at least double the pixels of 1080p at any rate
DId anyone NOT know this?
2k is 2048x1080. Slightly above 1920x1080 but it's a real standard in cinema.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2K_resolution
I guess 1080p as traditionally referred to isn't 2k but I don't think people mean 2048x1080 when they say 2k
It don't work like that yo. Modern rendering techniques rely entirely on single precision. Introducing half precision at any point during the pipeline would cause instant truncation which reduces the range of final output values placing limitations on the system we have long grown out of (color being the most prominent to come to mind).
Would the specs in the document still be accurate despite Sony seeing what the Scorpio is working with?
Wouldn't Neo mode have a new pipeline that's not attached to the PS4 pipeline?
PS4 mode 1.84TF of FP32 operations vs Neo mode 4.2TF of FP32 or 8.4TF of FP16 operations.
Neo mode has a goal of reaching 4K so it could make sacrifices in precision to get there.
At the end of the day it's going to be PS4/Xbox One games in 4K , for Sony it would have taken about 7.5TF to brute force a 1060P PS4 game to a 4K PS4 game while Microsoft can get 1080P Xbox One games in 4K with just over 5TF .
So unless Sony has a plan in place that would get them a 8TF GPU they might as well stick to their plan for cheap 4K..
Was this not the argument of PS2 owners would stick to PS3 since they had the largest library and PS3 at lauch was BC for almost all PS2 games.
Not all PS3s were BC. Also physical goods can be traded in for some return which can help you buy games on a different platform
The big difference this time is digital, plus proper full BC. You have invested money in your digital collection and you can't sell it on so that encourages you to stay with the same platform. Of course people will still change, but it will require a relatively larger reason to do so
Wouldn't Neo mode have a new pipeline that's not attached to the PS4 pipeline?
PS4 mode 1.84TF of FP32 operations vs Neo mode 4.2TF of FP32 or 8.4TF of FP16 operations.
Neo mode has a goal of reaching 4K so it could make sacrifices in precision to get there.
At the end of the day it's going to be PS4/Xbox One games in 4K , for Sony it would have taken about 7.5TF to brute force a 1080P PS4 game to a 4K PS4 game while Microsoft can get 1080P Xbox One games in 4K with just over 5TF .
So unless Sony has a plan in place that would get them a 8TF GPU they might as well stick to their plan for cheap 4K..
Where did you get those numbers?
Funny you mention the digital library. I agree with you 100% these are not 1 dollar apps that make switching phone eco system not to expensive. But this is my biggest grip with Sony this generation. I bought a lot of PS1 classics on the PS3 and Sony has not let me play those on the PS4 yet. I am not asking for PS3 emulation that is impossible. I don't think making a PS1 emulator is asking a lot. One of the reasons I have not bought much digital this generation on the PS4.
Where did you get those numbers?
You lost me on this one... can you elaborate?
Every Neo game is going to be a PS4 game & every Scorpio game is going to be a Xbox One game.
For Neo to run a game that is 1080 on PS4 at 4K it would take over 7.5TF so unless they plan to have a GPU with over 7.5TF there is no need of trying to react to Scorpio being 6TF & just stick to using uprendering & cheaper rendering tricks to get the PS4 games to 4K.
Every Neo game is going to be a PS4 game & every Scorpio game is going to be a Xbox One game.
For Neo to run a game that is 1080 on PS4 at 4K it would take over 7.5TF so unless they plan to have a GPU with over 7.5TF there is no need of trying to react to Scorpio being 6TF & just stick to using uprendering & cheaper rendering tricks to get the PS4 games to 4K.
At the end of the day it's going to be PS4/Xbox One games in 4K , for Sony it would have taken about 7.5TF to brute force a 1080P PS4 game to a 4K PS4 game while Microsoft can get 1080P Xbox One games in 4K with just over 5TF .
So unless Sony has a plan in place that would get them a 8TF GPU they might as well stick to their plan for cheap 4K..
This logic would work far better if XB1 games were reliably 1080p.
Every Neo game is going to be a PS4 game & every Scorpio game is going to be a Xbox One game.
For Neo to run a game that is 1080 on PS4 at 4K it would take over 7.5TF so unless they plan to have a GPU with over 7.5TF there is no need of trying to react to Scorpio being 6TF & just stick to using uprendering & cheaper rendering tricks to get the PS4 games to 4K.
But these will be new games so they can go for 1080 on Xbox One & 4K on Xbox Scorpio in some cases.
Ya, It was pretty blatant that's probably how it will go down. Announce it in October. "And it's available now" to the mad rush of fans.One of the first things Andrew House said (unprompted) is how he likes the Apple available now strategy. That is more than a hint of how Sony are doing things for Neo.
We already store a lot of data in FP16 or lesser formats, why would it be bad to compute some of those tasks in less precision in cases where it's not needed?It don't work like that yo. Modern rendering techniques rely entirely on single precision. Introducing half precision at any point during the pipeline would cause instant truncation which reduces the range of final output values placing limitations on the system we have long grown out of (color being the most prominent to come to mind).
FP16 and FP32 can be mixed in code, there is no different modes for them, they most likely use same ALUs. (Although I'm pretty sure it's unwise to throw value back and forth between them.)Wouldn't Neo mode have a new pipeline that's not attached to the PS4 pipeline?
PS4 mode 1.84TF of FP32 operations vs Neo mode 4.2TF of FP32 or 8.4TF of FP16 operations.
Well it's not like every PS4 game uses all the system's power. Very little do. I don't doubt there will be native 4k games on Neo.
But it mostly sticks around 900p.
And FP16 is used on mobile a lot because you also have smaller screens, I'm not so sure you could simply plunk half precision onto a HDTV and have things not look odd.
Unable to make a thread and didn't know if a thread has already been made. If so please disregard.
Old, and according to a thread on reddit its for PSVR
What I am asking you, is why does it take less TF for the Xbox One's 1080p to 4K versus the PS4? That is where you lost me.
Because if they got a Xbox One game at 1080P the optimizing has already been done so getting that game to 4K will need less than what would be needed to get a 1080P PS4 game to 4K.
So with Xbox One to Scorpio they will use 4.5X the power to take 900p/1080P Xbox One games to 4K Xbox Scorpio games while PS4 to PS4 Neo will use 2.3X the power & half the workload to take 1080P PS4 games to 4K.
Man how can you guys have a conversation about the same information released several months back and it be so many post about the same thing over and over again?
Bandwidth compression will help a fair bit to reduce the bandwidth requirements.A 22% increase in memory bandwidth for over double the GPU execution power seems out of sync. Especially if they want to target ~2K and upscale to 4K, even the low end of that target range is twice the pixels as 1080p.
You still lost me on this... you are assuming that 1080p on the PS4 is pushing the PS4 so hard it will need 7.5TF or more to reach 4K... but 1080p on the Xbox One is optimized where it does not need as much TF for 4K?
What if the 1080p on the PS4 still has a good 30% leg room or more of untapped power, and they just did 'enough' like a lot of devs have been guilty of early on with 'parity' talks and the like. There is a lot of unknowns in these assumptions.
Or am I misunderstanding still?
This isn't about a few games so if Sony was to go the route of Xbox Scorpio they would need around 7.5TF.
This is not accurate.
They are both x86 tech, with AMD Apu's, they will look and act the same with the same floating point count. I am fairly certain Your doing it wrong sir.
This is not accurate.Because if they got a Xbox One game at 1080P the optimizing has already been done so getting that game to 4K will need less than what would be needed to get a 1080P PS4 game to 4K.
So with Xbox One to Scorpio they will use 4.5X the power to take 900p/1080P Xbox One games to 4K Xbox Scorpio games while PS4 to PS4 Neo will use 2.3X the power & half the workload to take 1080P PS4 games to 4K.
They are both x86 tech, with AMD Apu's, they will look and act the same with the same floating point count. I am fairly certain Your doing it wrong sir.This isn't about a few games so if Sony was to go the route of Xbox Scorpio they would need around 7.5TF.
So with Xbox One to Scorpio they will use 4.5X the power to take 900p/1080P Xbox One games to 4K Xbox Scorpio games while PS4 to PS4 Neo will use 2.3X the power & half the workload to take 1080P PS4 games to 4K.
This is not accurate.
They are both x86 tech, with AMD Apu's, they will look and act the same with the same floating point count. I am fairly certain Your doing it wrong sir.
If Xbox needs 4.5x the power and PS4 needs 2.3x the power then shouldn't Xbox need more TF to reach the greaterX number?
(Still not sure where these numbers are coming from though)
You are assuming that every game uses the maximum amount of system recources it possibly could.Would Sony be able to get PS4 games to run the same at 4K on a console with 6TF using the same rendering technique on both consoles like Microsoft should be able to do going from Xbox One to Scorpio?
I'm saying that MS was able to reach the goal of 4X the power of Xbox One with a console that's over 5TF but for Sony to do the same they would need over 7.5TF which isn't a easy goal so they are using 2X the power with cheaper rendering tricks to get PS4 games to 4K.
Would Sony be able to get PS4 games to run the same at 4K on a console with 6TF using the same rendering technique on both consoles like Microsoft should be able to do going from Xbox One to Scorpio?
I'm saying that MS was able to reach the goal of 4X the power of Xbox One with a console that's over 5TF but for Sony to do the same they would need over 7.5TF which isn't a easy goal so they are using 2X the power with cheaper rendering tricks to get PS4 games to 4K.
You are assuming that every game uses the maximum amount of system recources it possibly could.
Stop with this line of thinking, it's completely wrong.
Hey Matt, was just wondering if you knew if there was any chance that we'll have games fully supporting HDR. It's a bigger deal to me than 4K.You are assuming that every game uses the maximum amount of system recources it possibly could.
Stop with this line of thinking, it's completely wrong.
I'd like to see NEO = PS4 slim
Sony releases the Neo, and just sells through on all the old models.
Man..you really should not be here posting like this. You sound a lot like mrxmedia. Only a PS version of it.