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PS4 Neo presentation might have leaked

That would be nice if they brought this back for it. A much smoother process than having to have an extra separate storage unit.

Wow, that's news to me! Did they add that when they launched the slim PS3?

It's good to have options, but it sounds like a bit of a pain to do. I've got reasonably fast unlimited broadband, so I might just re-download instead.

I'm hoping that the rumours of a 13th October Neo launch (from Amazon Spain) aren't true: I could do with Neo coming ahead of PSVR so that I can get through all the prep; a same day launch would be pretty frustrating! No preloads of any PSVR games!
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Wow, that's news to me! Did they add that when they launched the slim PS3?

It's good to have options, but it sounds like a bit of a pain to do. I've got reasonably fast unlimited broadband, so I might just re-download instead.

I'm hoping that the rumours of a 13th October Neo launch (from Amazon Spain) aren't true: I could do with Neo coming ahead of PSVR so that I can get through all the prep; a same day launch would be pretty frustrating! No preloads of any PSVR games!

Yes, they added the feature for the PS3 Slim launch.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Lady Gaia said:
There were four games that supported 1080i output on the system
Native buffer in those was ~640x540. It was theoretically possible to do native HD, but you'd have to run without ZBuffer, - not usable for games / or just do supersampling - which left you with regular SD output (Baldurs gate games did this).

If the native framebuffer is really 3840x2160?
Then we're already rendering 4k native and there's nothing to do. The question was about reconstruction methods that obviously run with fewer pixels.

I agree actual use of extra resources will vary greatly (and highly depend on platform-holder requirements/guidelines), but without knowing the latter, it's hard to say what the use common cases will look like.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Native buffer in those was ~640x540. It was theoretically possible to do native HD, but you'd have to run without ZBuffer, - not usable for games / or just do supersampling - which left you with regular SD output (Baldurs gate games did this).

Isn't 1080i essentially 540p buffer repeated twice every odd line 1,3,5,7, etc.?
 
Isn't 1080i essentially 540p buffer repeated twice every odd line 1,3,5,7, etc.?

Not sure, but isn't the horizontal resolution different? 960*540 vs 1920*1080?

The frame/field interleaved/progressive thing I'm not so sure of: because of the way the fields are packed for 1080i the frame rate is effectively halved as two half-frame fields are needed to create a single full frame.
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Then we're already rendering 4k native and there's nothing to do. The question was about reconstruction methods that obviously run with fewer pixels.

The reconstruction methods I'm familiar with all involve a smaller intermediate render target but a final target resolution framebuffer for the deinterlaced image. The integration of content from a prior frame is still a GPU compute task, not something handled by the scaler. If the final target is native resolution, then it's not upscaled.

I agree actual use of extra resources will vary greatly (and highly depend on platform-holder requirements/guidelines), but without knowing the latter, it's hard to say what the use common cases will look like.

We'all find it in time. For now the speculation has been interesting!
 

onQ123

Member
The reconstruction methods I'm familiar with all involve a smaller intermediate render target but a final target resolution framebuffer for the deinterlaced image. The integration of content from a prior frame is still a GPU compute task, not something handled by the scaler. If the final target is native resolution, then it's not upscaled.


I been repeating this for half a year now


3bwjOVA.jpg



kotRA4u.jpg
 

pottuvoi

Banned
Not sure, but isn't the horizontal resolution different? 960*540 vs 1920*1080?

The frame/field interleaved/progressive thing I'm not so sure of: because of the way the fields are packed for 1080i the frame rate is effectively halved as two half-frame fields are needed to create a single full frame.
1080i field size is 1920x540.
Basically it's a 1080p buffer with odd and even lines displayed in different frame.

It is possible to render fields for 1080i in 1920x540 buffer and display full 1080i image, but in such case you cannot drop a frame or you will get artifacts due to field misalignment.
 

Lady Gaia

Member
I been repeating this for half a year now

Nonsense. You spent a lot of time trying to sell Sony's strategy for rendering PS2 titles at higher resolution as "uprendering" but (a) you invented the term out of whole cloth since literally nobody in the industry uses it, and (b) you presented it as a less expensive way of getting results. In practice the technique you latched onto originally requires rendering every frame four times at a quarter of the final resolution. It's a fun technique for taking older, less demanding games with fixed resolution assumptions and getting higher fidelity results, but it's more expensive than just doing one pass at native resolution, not less.

You have since started applying the same invented buzzword to anything else that looks promising in the hope that it will stick. There are plenty of techniques out there so that game could continue indefinitely, but you were not "saying this all along." In any case, my prediction stands that we won't see a ton of 4K native framebuffer on Neo, even with temporal reconstruction.
 

Metfanant

Member
Nonsense. You spent a lot of time trying to sell Sony's strategy for rendering PS2 titles at higher resolution as "uprendering" but (a) you invented the term out of whole cloth since literally nobody in the industry uses it, and (b) you presented it as a less expensive way of getting results. In practice the technique you latched onto originally requires rendering every frame four times at a quarter of the final resolution. It's a fun technique for taking older, less demanding games with fixed resolution assumptions and getting higher fidelity results, but it's more expensive than just doing one pass at native resolution, not less.

You have since started applying the same invented buzzword to anything else that looks promising in the hope that it will stick. There are plenty of techniques out there so that game could continue indefinitely, but you were not "saying this all along." In any case, my prediction stands that we won't see a ton of 4K native framebuffer on Neo, even with temporal reconstruction.


preach.gif
 

onQ123

Member
Nonsense. You spent a lot of time trying to sell Sony's strategy for rendering PS2 titles at higher resolution as "uprendering" but (a) you invented the term out of whole cloth since literally nobody in the industry uses it, and (b) you presented it as a less expensive way of getting results. In practice the technique you latched onto originally requires rendering every frame four times at a quarter of the final resolution. It's a fun technique for taking older, less demanding games with fixed resolution assumptions and getting higher fidelity results, but it's more expensive than just doing one pass at native resolution, not less.

You have since started applying the same invented buzzword to anything else that looks promising in the hope that it will stick. There are plenty of techniques out there so that game could continue indefinitely, but you were not "saying this all along." In any case, my prediction stands that we won't see a ton of 4K native framebuffer on Neo, even with temporal reconstruction.


I did not make up the term & like I have said before the patent is not the only way of up rendering.
 

sviri

Member
I'm selling my PS4 tomorrow in prep for Neo. Do you guys think I'll be able to import a backup from PS4 to Neo? I don't see why Sony wouldn't allow this, but I am wondering if anyone has any additional insight as to what the best way to do this is.
 
I'm selling my PS4 tomorrow in prep for Neo. Do you guys think I'll be able to import a backup from PS4 to Neo? I don't see why Sony wouldn't allow this, but I am wondering if anyone has any additional insight as to what the best way to do this is.

A backup made with PS4 will probably be able to be restored to Neo, seeing as how Neo is still going to be a PS4.

Though, why would you sell your PS4 now and deprive yourself of gaming? We have no idea when Neo is going to be released.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
A backup made with PS4 will probably be able to be restored to Neo, seeing as how Neo is still going to be a PS4.

Though, why would you sell your PS4 now and deprive yourself of gaming? We have no idea when Neo is going to be released.

I agree, first you have to wait for the official reveal complete with what retailers are doing, ect.

Don't just do things without thinking of the end result.
 

sviri

Member
A backup made with PS4 will probably be able to be restored to Neo, seeing as how Neo is still going to be a PS4.

Though, why would you sell your PS4 now and deprive yourself of gaming? We have no idea when Neo is going to be released.

I agree, first you have to wait for the official reveal complete with what retailers are doing, ect.

Don't just do things without thinking of the end result.

I totally get where you guys are coming from, but coming off of a year long BB/DS3 binge, I think taking a break while maximizing the resale value of my PS4 is going to be a good thing for me. The worst case scenario would be having to wait longer for a new system. By that time, I'd come back ready for TLG, Persona 5, FFXV if it's good, and HOPEFULLY Neo-Patched BB/DS3.

This money is going into my closet Neo fund.


EDIT: I also have a backlog of Vita/3DS/PS3 RPGs to have fun with.
 
A backup made with PS4 will probably be able to be restored to Neo, seeing as how Neo is still going to be a PS4.

Though, why would you sell your PS4 now and deprive yourself of gaming? We have no idea when Neo is going to be released.

I really wish we knew as well about the release date. At this point, it could be next year for all we know.
 
Sorry for bumping this, but I have a question regarding performance.

So the XBox One S is out and we can see performance gains on games. My question would be, if a game has an unlocked frame rate, wouldn't it automatically benefit from Neo, without a patch, performance wise ?
 

DieH@rd

Banned
Sorry for bumping this, but I have a question regarding performance.

So the XBox One S is out and we can see performance gains on games. My question would be, if a game has an unlocked frame rate, wouldn't it automatically benefit from Neo, without a patch, performance wise ?

Yes, if Sony sets "base Neo" mode to have higher clock/performance than base PS4. But we don't know if that would happen.
 

Larogue

Member
Sorry for bumping this, but I have a question regarding performance.

So the XBox One S is out and we can see performance gains on games. My question would be, if a game has an unlocked frame rate, wouldn't it automatically benefit from Neo, without a patch, performance wise ?

Probably, I see nothing that blocks non-frame locked games from using whatever GPU powers is available.
 
Sorry for bumping this, but I have a question regarding performance.

So the XBox One S is out and we can see performance gains on games. My question would be, if a game has an unlocked frame rate, wouldn't it automatically benefit from Neo, without a patch, performance wise ?

Even if they clock the system at the stock base PS4 clocks for non-NEO titles, there should be some improvement due to a newer GPU architecture being used. Lossless delta color compression should bring significant bandwidth improvements even if the GDDR5 were run at the same clock speeds.
 
Probably, I see nothing that blocks non-frame locked games from using whatever GPU powers is available.

That's the only reason I'd upgrade. I don't have a 4K tv, and have no intention of buying one in the near future. But if Neo sticks to 1080p for my HDTV and automagically puts the hardware to use on improving frame rates... I'm all over that.

Will wait and see how it plays out. But the thought of Horizon Zero Dawn and God of War 4 at 1080p60 makes me very excited!
 
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